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Santorum: Separation of Church and State Not Absolute
Christian Post ^ | 02/27/2012 | By Napp Nazworth

Posted on 02/27/2012 12:38:23 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Presidential candidate Rick Santorum made some controversial remarks on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday, saying former President John F. Kennedy's speech about his Catholic faith made him want to "throw up," and that President Obama is a "snob" for saying that everyone should go to college.

Kennedy said, in his Sept. 12, 1960 speech about his Catholic faith, that "the separation of church and state is absolute."

"I don't believe in America the separation of church and state is absolute," Santorum told host George Stephanopoulos. "The idea that the church can have no influence or involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country. This is the First Amendment. The First Amendment says 'free exercise of religion,' that means bringing everybody, people of faith and no faith into the public square. Kennedy for the first time articulated a vision saying faith is not allowed in the public square."

"That makes you want to throw up?" Stephanopoulos interrupted to ask.

"Absolutely," Santorum replied, "to say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live in that says that only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case? That makes me throw up."

Santorum also tied Kennedy's ideas to the Obama administration's birth control mandate, which would require some religious institutions to provide health care coverage for birth controls even if their religious teachings are opposed to them.

The mandate, Santorum said, is government "imposing" its values on religion, "which, of course is the next logical step when people of faith, according to John Kennedy, have no role in the public square."

During the show, Stephanopoulos asked Santorum to explain a comment he made on Saturday while in Michigan about Obama and education. In a speech on Saturday, Santorum said, "President Obama once said he wants everybody in America to go to college. What a snob. There are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day, that put their skills to test, that aren't taught by some liberal college professor."

On "This Week," Santorum, whose campaign is focused on blue collar workers, said there are many whose desires and aspirations do not include going to college. To say that college should be everyone's goal, "devalues the tremendous work of people who don't go to college and don't want to go to college," Santorum explained.

Santorum also complained about a liberal bias on college campuses. He added that conservatives are ridiculed on college campuses and he personally experienced this as a student at Penn State.

"I've gone through it. I went through it at Penn State. You talk to most kids who go to college who are conservatives and you are singled out, you are ridiculed."

Santorum also said he heard a statistic from a few years ago in which 62 percent of students who enter college with a faith commitment leave without one.

"You make it sound like there is something wrong with encouraging college education," Stephanopoulos complained.

"No, not at all," Santorum responded, "but, understand, we have some real problems on our college campuses with political correctness."


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: church; santorum; state

1 posted on 02/27/2012 12:38:28 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

That’s an election-losing comment from Santorum.


2 posted on 02/27/2012 12:44:55 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Man is not free unless government is limited. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: SeekAndFind

Margarite Thatcher pretty much said the same thing. Something about all of the west’s sense of morality and rights were rooted in Christianity.


3 posted on 02/27/2012 12:48:52 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind
Last September my Knights of Columbus Council sponsored a 10th Anniversary Day of Remembrance at our Parish. After ceremonies at the two city halls of the cities we serve. Dignitaries held a Procession to our Parish for a Blue Mass and a Pancake Breakfast for 1st responders. You guessed it. A local Rabbi complained that this was a violation of the “Separation of Church and State”. Both city halls responded that the Blue Mass is a KOC tradition of supporting Fire and Police departments and were INVITED by the council. It was suggested that if the Rabbi wanted to participate by having a portion of the day at his Synagogue the city would be glad to attend. It was also part of an overall Day of Remembrance in which other groups sponsored other events during the day.
4 posted on 02/27/2012 12:49:30 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: SeekAndFind
Last September my Knights of Columbus Council sponsored a 10th Anniversary Day of Remembrance at our Parish. After ceremonies at the two city halls of the cities we serve. Dignitaries held a Procession to our Parish for a Blue Mass and a Pancake Breakfast for 1st responders. You guessed it. A local Rabbi complained that this was a violation of the “Separation of Church and State”. Both city halls responded that the Blue Mass is a KOC tradition of supporting Fire and Police departments and were INVITED by the council. It was suggested that if the Rabbi wanted to participate by having a portion of the day at his Synagogue the city would be glad to attend. It was also part of an overall Day of Remembrance in which other groups sponsored other events during the day.
5 posted on 02/27/2012 12:49:48 PM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

RE: That’s an election-losing comment from Santorum.

Only if people choose to misunderstand what he means.


6 posted on 02/27/2012 12:49:55 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Margarite Thatcher pretty much said the same thing. Something about all of the west’s sense of morality and rights were rooted in Christianity.

But if y’all want sodomy, polygamy and beastiality, then go ahead and insist on a strict separation. And let the liberal judges decide the issue.


7 posted on 02/27/2012 12:50:11 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Nobody wants sodomy, polygamy, bestiality, etc.

But it isn’t the business of government to make people morally upright. It has to come from individuals and communities themselves to instill and regulate good behavior.


8 posted on 02/27/2012 12:58:07 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind
IIRC, it was about his personal religion and his presidential role.

Was he right? Let's be real...

the guy was a male *****, mamma was a gold digger, daddy was a runner, bro couldn't save Mary Jo, auntie was an alcoholic, cousin was a rapist.......

There was a BIG separation!!!

9 posted on 02/27/2012 1:02:00 PM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: Utmost Certainty

RE: But it isn’t the business of government to make people morally upright.

Is it the business of government to IMPOSE its view of morality on citizens? This question needs to be asked because government IS already doing it.


10 posted on 02/27/2012 1:03:52 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: Utmost Certainty
"But it isn’t the business of government to make people morally upright. It has to come from individuals and communities themselves to instill and regulate good behavior."

Have you checked out Somalia. I understand there are very few rules there.

11 posted on 02/27/2012 1:10:26 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind
Is it the business of government to IMPOSE its view of morality on citizens?

Absolutely not.

This question needs to be asked because government IS already doing it.

I know, and it shouldn't be.
12 posted on 02/27/2012 1:11:32 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: SeekAndFind

If the left were sincere about a “wall” of separation between church and state, it would be less objectionable. (I would note as an Orthodox Christian, some of us Christians actually like the Supreme Court decision banning state-sponsored prayer in schools, as it was only that decision that put a stop to U.S. government policy of forcing Orthodox Christian native Alaskan children to attend boarding schools where government-sponsored efforts were made to convert them to protestantism.)

Walls don’t move. Unfortunately, the left’s”wall” is more akin to a bulldozer blade, than to a wall, with the state is driving the bulldozer, and pushing the church out of whatever space the state fancies occupying, as the Obama abortifacient mandate shows.


13 posted on 02/27/2012 1:11:34 PM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think separation of church and state is absolute in institutional sense. Church or clergies don’t have any ex officio seats in any formal type and level of political institutions, unlike in British, for instance, where the CoE still has official ties with the state. I wonder if that’s what Kennedy had in mind. Santorum talks about individual involvement of religious people in political affairs, which covered by the 1st Amendment. This should not be even an issue, but liberals often blur the line. If a Republican candidate gives speech in a church, they cry about the separation of church and state. Ignoring the regular appearances of Democrats in Black churches.


14 posted on 02/27/2012 1:14:23 PM PST by paudio (Newt pissed on conservative principles, but we need him to beat 0bama so we look the other way...)
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To: SeekAndFind; Utmost Certainty
"Is it the business of government to IMPOSE its view of morality on citizens? This question needs to be asked because government IS already doing it."

That's exactly right! Government can't operate without a moral view. Government is going to impose it's view, whatever that is, for better or worse. The alternative is Somalia where there is no government.

Our secular government is imposing it's moral view on us. We can't talk about God in schools, Catholics have to perform abortion, Christians have to provide contraception, ....etc.

15 posted on 02/27/2012 1:14:37 PM PST by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind; Utmost Certainty

“RE: But it isn’t the business of government to make people morally upright.”

“Is it the business of government to IMPOSE its view of morality on citizens? This question needs to be asked because government IS already doing it.”
__________________________________________________________

This is precisely why God’s inspired Government (and our Constitution), expressly forbids Goverment from interjecting into more than a handful of issues. Because the pendulum ALWAYS swings the other way. If people try to use government to enforce morality (beyond crimes/harm against other people), they are overstepping God’s bounds. And eventually the rationale the use for restricting people’s freedoms are used against them. Either extreme is always the abridgement of freedom, whether it’s for “our own good” on the “right” or the “left.” Good government butts out of peoples lives, and lets them face the consequences. Children out of wedlock, scrape by in poverty. Rampant sexual behavior, get diseases. The problem is that we don’t allow people to make bad choices and face the consequences. That’s the ONLY thing that teaches people.

And yes, it’s wrong for goverment to impose its view of morality upon the people. It’s NOWHERE in the Constitution. States may vary on that, as I do not know the States’ Constitutions.

Is the government wasn’t doing unconstitutional and/or immoral things things like taxing income, and interfering in a persona’s right to house, employy etc. whomever they want, then we would have the issues of who’s married and who’s not, etc. etc. I am all for a Federal Amendment for a definition of marriage, but without an amendment, and that’s a strict and near unanimous process. All these things are outseide the proper role of government.


16 posted on 02/27/2012 1:16:58 PM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

That was my thought too.


17 posted on 02/27/2012 1:21:46 PM PST by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Utmost Certainty
Nobody wants sodomy, polygamy, bestiality, etc.

It wasn't too long ago that people were saying "Nobody wants same-sex marriage".

18 posted on 02/27/2012 2:02:21 PM PST by Isabel C.
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To: JDW11235
This is precisely why God’s inspired Government (and our Constitution), expressly forbids Goverment from interjecting into more than a handful of issues. Because the pendulum ALWAYS swings the other way. If people try to use government to enforce morality (beyond crimes/harm against other people), they are overstepping God’s bounds. And eventually the rationale the use for restricting people’s freedoms are used against them. Either extreme is always the abridgement of freedom, whether it’s for “our own good” on the “right” or the “left.” Good government butts out of peoples lives, and lets them face the consequences. Children out of wedlock, scrape by in poverty. Rampant sexual behavior, get diseases. The problem is that we don’t allow people to make bad choices and face the consequences. That’s the ONLY thing that teaches people.

My thoughts exactly. Well said.
19 posted on 02/27/2012 2:11:11 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: Isabel C.
It wasn't too long ago that people were saying "Nobody wants same-sex marriage".

What's the alternative? Establish laws explicitly prohibiting every immoral act a person might do?

Don't think that's very practical. Like I said, morality has to come from within as something a person knows and believes—through upbringing and experience, etc.
20 posted on 02/27/2012 2:15:38 PM PST by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State | Gingrich 2012)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
Over all, I think you're correct.

The response, I believe, was correct in spirit. The problem with Santorum is that he is about as unartful a spokesman as I have ever seen. He allows himself to be trapped into these issues and then he has to explain his way out of his response. I don't think GWB was as inarticulate as Santorum. The man is tone deaf to what he says and how it will be interpreted.

His response on the college education issue was even worse than his church and state response. It was just plain stupid . . . "don't send your kids to college because they might be indoctrinated into liberalism???" Really?? That's his answer to higher education?

I don't like Santorum, because he is not likeable. He is dreary, depressing, negative, self-righteous, and lacks vision. He doesn't project optimism, as Reagan was able to do and as Gingrich does . . . he projects a grim determination and a bleak future.

Reagan was able to address the problems of the Carter years, yet provide us with hope for a brighter, more successful future. He saw America as the exemplar towards which the world looked. He literally saw America as that "shining city on the hill." Santorum seems to project a grim, dark, gothic cathedral on the hill--probably with gargoyles staring out at the world.

Beyond that, I do not think Santorum could beat Obama; his feet are too firmly implanted in his mouth.
21 posted on 02/27/2012 2:21:35 PM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Utmost Certainty

Thanks. I understand the desire to keep people from making mistakes, none of us wants to see someone get hurt (or worse, hurt someone else), by being stupid and careless. But if we clinch down and force people to do “right” we ourselves are doing “wrong.” We cannot solve that problem other than “working out our salvation” that is to say, stumbling, and realizing we need help from our Savior (I don’t mean to be preachy, but this is a site for God, too!). Anyway, we have to be willing to make some mistakes and have some mistakes be made and then remedied. We wouldn’t have civil courts if everything could be solved by being criminalized (an attempt in full force, I may add). Let’s face it, we live in a fallen world, so we’re not going to be perfect, as individuals, or as society. We have the right to choose how we live, but not how others do. They gotta learn somehow, you know?

The thing is, that I’m convinced that 99% of all issues that “social conservatives” would be solved if government got back where it should be. No government funded abortions. No tax or other incentives for same-sex couples, etc. (I don’t even understand the delineation between a “plain ole’” conservative and a “Social conservative”, except people who want more laws for their cause). I dunno, maybe I’m old fashioned, but I don’t want a huge government telling me what to do. Besides, if people aren’t worried about God, they surely aren’t worried about Government. So then we have to lock up all the non-compliers. We’re beyond the point of just having the largest prison population on the planet (by many fold, if we go by “per capita”), but we’re nearing a police state. I don’t want to pay for all those prisoners. But that’s for another thread!


22 posted on 02/27/2012 2:27:09 PM PST by JDW11235 (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Separation of Church and state” isn’t in the US Constitution, it’s from the Soviet Constitution liberals believe in.


23 posted on 02/27/2012 6:23:25 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: BuckeyeTexan
election-losing comment from Santorum.

It may be so. However, I would very much hope that Santorum's candidacy breaks the dam on religious freedom just like Goldwater's campaign paved the way for cold-war conservatism of Reagan or Rush Limbaugh's radio program articulated the fiscal conservatism of the Gingrich revolution. Rick may lose this time, but he is raising a critical issue which the GOP cowards are afraid to talk about. And he is young. His caliber as a politician of national appeal just rose. He is a courageous man.

24 posted on 02/27/2012 6:31:50 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Utmost Certainty

It is the business of government to make people behave themselves. churchgoing people are more likely to do this than non-church-going people. Our founding fathers celebrated virtue, and it is one of the purposes of a church to instill virtue.


25 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:34 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Sudetenland

Jeremiah was not too popular either, but he was always right.


26 posted on 02/29/2012 12:19:11 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: annalex

I think it was Newt who made the first remarks about the administration ’s war on religion.


27 posted on 02/29/2012 12:21:12 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Utmost Certainty
"What's the alternative? Establish laws explicitly prohibiting every immoral act a person might do?"

Most State criminal codes are specifically enacted to prohibit a wide range of immoral acts. If governments didn't legislate morality then nothing would be a crime.

28 posted on 02/29/2012 4:56:16 AM PST by circlecity
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To: RobbyS

Could be: Obama’s war on religion (other than his own) is hard to miss.

What is to Santorum’s credit is not noticing the obvious but pointing out the cowardness of JFK’s private Catholicism.


29 posted on 02/29/2012 5:17:14 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: RobbyS
Santorum isn't Jeremiah, and he isn't always right . . . not even close. That effort he made to get Democrats to support him was cynical and low. The comment he made about higher education and snobbery was just STUPID. His inability to keep his damn trap shut and stay on message has been pathetic.

He is undisciplined, grim, negative, dreary, uninspiring, arrogant, self-righteous, and unattractive. He has been from the very outset. He is also unelectable and he demonstrated it last night. All he needed to do to win Michigan was to simply keep him mouth shut and not say the epically stupid things he said this week, but he just couldn't help himself.

He demonstrated exactly why he lost by 17 points in his last election. Lord knows I don't want Romney, but at this point--unless Gingrich can create some sort of comeback with a win in Georgia, which I doubt--we are going to be stuck with him. My greatest hope is that we wind up with a brokered convention, but even that is looking less and less likely.
30 posted on 02/29/2012 5:35:45 AM PST by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Sudetenland

If you think that Santorum is wrong about his remarks about higher education, then you have not looked at what higher education in the United States has become. It is absurd to say that everyone, even a majority of high school graduates should go to college, but that is what Obama has been saying.


31 posted on 02/29/2012 8:41:24 AM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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