Posted on 03/17/2012 2:30:01 PM PDT by reaganaut
I understand the history of the doctrine of the perpetual virginity of Mary (ἀειπαρθένος). I know it was taught as early as the 4th century, and I understand the development of "Spritual Marriages" in the Early Middle ages. That isn't what I am asking.
I have a good grasp of the history, doctrine and Biblical texts. I have done a lot of research on the topic. I grew up in Catholic school and Matthew 1:25 always got me in trouble during Catechism class.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (Matthew 1:25).
"Know" is a very common idiom for sex in Judaism of the period of writing. Again, I don't want to debate the text or history.
Protestants have no issue with Joseph and Mary having a normal marriage and having sexual relations AFTER the birth of Jesus (not before for obvious reasons) and having other children.
What I am curious about is the WHY the doctrine is important to MODERN Catholics (Medieval Catholics I get). Why does matter if Mary was ever-virgin (after the birth of Christ) or not?
There is nothing here denying that they might have enjoyed a normal marriage, including a husband and wife coming together, after the birth of Jesus.
What is wrong with that idea? Does it destroy your goddess worship?
How should a husband and wife/father and mother live? What did Jesus say about a man marrying a woman? Does a man leave his mother and father to cleave to a woman?
Who came down from heaven, gave up his position for a time and offer you salvation?
It wasn't Mary...
I would rather hear what you say is the difference....or for that matter other catholics here on FR. In what way is there a difference? Especially because you seem to indicate there is.
Hey Cloudmountain,
Won’t you reply to post 81 and 82? If your amazing wisdom is isn’t poured out from God, from where does it flow?
Ok...thanks for clarifying that dogma is an established fact in the catholic church...which would have been based on a collective group or appointed people within the church at certain historical times.....is that correct? which would make it "law"?
Agree or disagree I think you can find your answer here:
http://www.cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=102
Jesus had (IIRC) 72 followers. He cut most of them lose (they complained "who can follow this teaching?").
Perhaps none of them were worthy. I've got a brother who is an unapologetic communist and ACLU member.
Idiots, we're all related to some...
- - - -
Because I am fluent in Koine Greek. It isn’t just an assumption. The word is anepsios and used in other places in the New Testament.
Hey, cloudmountain...
Facts seem to repulse you the same way holy water repulses vampires and truth repulses liberals.
Whats up with that?
Is the Perpetual Virginity of Mary a Biblical View?
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
The Early Church Fathers on Mary’s Perpetual Virginity - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
The Heõs Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Do we have your sincere promise that there is no bias there?
Just kidding. I already know the answer whether you're honest, or not.
**I’m on my way to run an errand, will get back to you later**
And then I went to church and a St. Patrick Dinner! LOL!
I don’t think many denominations recognize or celebrate the Presentation of Mary in the temple for an education. She did, indeed, choose to be a virgin and dedicate her life to God.
Well, Catholics believe Mary was sinless, so if anyone should be chaste, should it not be Mary?
Reaganaut replied...
But sex is not a sin, so it wouldn’t apply.
The catholic reply is...
No replies.
Ok...I called a catholic friend and this is what he said...
“Doctrine evolves but once Doctrine becomes Dogma, it no longer evolves...it cannot be changed.
We must always abide by the Magisterium, whether it is Dogma or Doctrine.
Neither can change, but our knowledge of doctrine can be furthered... And they are both infallible”.
Does that sound about right?
You mention “consumated”. Aren’t you thinking as many people think today.
Was that always the case in Biblical times? I don’t think so. I know of several saints who lived totally celibate lives with their spouse more of a friend than a conjugal partner.
Oh, my. I can’t answer your question or I would probably get thrown off the thread.
Good thought there with the tone of the voice. I have always thought that Mary’s question was full of wonderment and a little bit of confusion.
And Zechariah;s question was more doubt and sarcasm. That’s why God had him remain mute until he named the baby John.
Attitutde, attitude.
The FR thread about St. Jerome and Helvidius was when my computer balked and wouldn’t let me access any more search links.
I’ll get the rest later.
Great post, BTW.
Please read the threads above that are bolded that show the actual interpretation of the Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic.
I’m not a language whiz, so I really fon’t know which is which.
Also my comment about brethren that used to be in our Bibles and now we have the PC “brothers and sisters”
Think “kinsmen” not brothers.
I believe that the Presentation of Mary at the temple took place when she was three years old.
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