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Rubio Attacks the Catholic Church
CMR ^ | March 21, 2012 | Matthew Archbold

Posted on 03/21/2012 3:01:35 PM PDT by NYer

Marco Rubio loosed some hardcore bile against the Catholic Church, accusing the Church of cozying up to the Castro regime.

The Daily Caller reports:

Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio said Wednesday that he is “deeply concerned” that the leadership of the Catholic Church has “negotiated themselves a space of operation” in Cuba “in exchange for looking the other way,” and expressed concern that Pope Benedict XVI’s upcoming trip to the island may “reinforce that arrangement.”

Rubio, a Catholic, said during a discussion at The Heritage Foundation that the Catholic Church has “negotiated a political space for themselves in exchange for their moral imperative.”

Volunteering an example, Rubio said, “last week… the church invited — the cardinal invited — Castro thugs to come into the church and remove people.”

Rubio also denounced the church for “actively participating in exiling dissidents,” sarcastically adding, “somehow exiling someone to Spain is a humanitarian measure.”
I don't know for sure specifically what he's referring to but it might just be the story that came out that within the last week that protesters had occupied Minor Basilica of Our Lady of Charity in Havana and the Cathedral of Pinar del Rio in an apparent effort to demand an audience with Pope Benedict during his March 25-29 visit to the country.

They wouldn't leave the church until the Pope came to see them, according to CNA. So the pastor called the police and had them removed. That's hardly rising to the level of cozying up to dictators.

Spokesman for the Archdiocese of Havana, Orlando Marquez, called the incidents an “organized strategy by various groups in different regions of the country” aimed at “creating difficult situations” as the Pope's visit approaches.

Marquez called the recent protests “illegitimate” and “irresponsible.”

This seems like a pretty wild and outrageous accusation from a Senator of the United States if that's what he's basing it on. I know a lot of folks had been considering Rubio as a strong possibility for a veep slot but these kinds of comments seem so out of bounds to me that I hope everyone would reconsider. He needs to be pressed on this issue. If he's got evidence to back up what he's saying, then let's hear it.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: catholic; cuba; marcorubio; rubio

1 posted on 03/21/2012 3:01:38 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Oh great .. and this is the person the Republicans want to place as VP on their presidential ticket.


2 posted on 03/21/2012 3:03:42 PM PDT by NYer (He who hides in his heart the remembrance of wrongs is like a man who feeds a snake on his chest. St)
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To: NYer

Calling out the uxorious Roman Emperor’s Church? Sounds good to me. Or do you think that the political actions of the Roman Catholic Church are now unquestionable gospel?


3 posted on 03/21/2012 3:07:49 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
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To: NYer

At this juncture, the Church is everyone’s favorite whipping boy.

What did He say?

18“If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first.n 19If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you.”

When we feel the love, then I’ll really worry.


4 posted on 03/21/2012 3:07:49 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: NYer

Did Rubio say anything that was incorrect?


5 posted on 03/21/2012 3:10:22 PM PDT by svcw (CLEAN WATER & Education http://www.longlostsis.com/PI/MayanHelp2012.html)
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To: NYer

The AP and Reuters did the same thing, they have bureau’s there as long as they don’t write anything too critical of the regime.


6 posted on 03/21/2012 3:20:44 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: rmlew
Calling out the uxorious Roman Emperor’s Church?


7 posted on 03/21/2012 3:22:16 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: svcw
It may be correct to him but common sense might say it could be a distortion of facts as reported in the article.

They wouldn't leave the church until the Pope came to see them, according to CNA. So the pastor called the police and had them removed. That's hardly rising to the level of cozying up to dictators.

8 posted on 03/21/2012 3:24:00 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: NYer
Rubio, a Catholic,

Assumes facts not in evidence.

Rubio belongs to the Christ Fellowship nondenominational Church in West Kendall, Fla., where he has attended for the last six years.

9 posted on 03/21/2012 3:25:32 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: NYer

I’m not a Catholic but I presume that Rubio is upset that the Church has any cooperation with the Castro government. It’s a tricky arrangement because the Church does not want to abandon Cuban Catholics but the more they cooperate with Castro, the more they tacitly endorse his police-state powers.

To someone in the exile community, probably any cooperation between the Church and Castro is unacceptable.


10 posted on 03/21/2012 3:26:03 PM PDT by OrangeHoof (Obama: The Dr. Kevorkian of the American economy.)
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To: OrangeHoof

I am a Catholic and i agree...there has always been problems with individual members of the church cozying up to commie leaders in the latino world...still remember Pope John Paul II giving a priest a tongue lashing literally seconds after he stepped off the plane in, i believe nicaragua...


11 posted on 03/21/2012 3:29:39 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5million pay no federal income tax then vote demoKrat)
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To: God luvs America
Ernesto Cardenal, Managua, 4 March 1983


12 posted on 03/21/2012 3:34:18 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: NYer

Rubio’s been a disappointment.

At this point, is he even still Catholic?

I’ve read that he was Mormon at one point and has also been attending a nondenominational church for years.


13 posted on 03/21/2012 3:35:02 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: NYer
Rubio is a Roman Catholic. Is it wrong to speak out against what your own Church is doing? The church Catholic and Protestant has to be held accountable and be told when they are straying. When John wrote his letters to the Seven Churches he wasn't exactly sending them greetings and a job well done, now was he?
14 posted on 03/21/2012 3:36:37 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: NYer
The Church's mission is The Lord's mission and it supersedes that of the Castro regime or the U.S. or any mundane body.

To deny The Word to those living under a communist hell because you don't like the politics of the local Caesar would be an abomination.

15 posted on 03/21/2012 3:42:34 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Sofa King Mitt Odd Did Obamneycare)
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To: NYer

NYER I think I hear Rubio is not Mormon he is Evangical Christian going to church who kinda hostile to Cathoic church there are Spanish language Churches in LA that very hostile to Cathoic church especially in SO CAL


16 posted on 03/21/2012 3:48:05 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: NYer

NYER I think I hear Rubio is not Mormon he is Evangical Christian going to church who kinda hostile to Cathoic church there are Spanish language Churches in LA that very hostile to Cathoic church especially in SO CAL


17 posted on 03/21/2012 3:48:21 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: NavyCanDo

No one seems to know what the heck he is. If he partakes in communion in another organization and misses his sunday obligation, he isn’t being Catholic as most folks use the term.

I don’t think he is attacking the Church; calling out the bishops when one disagrees with them isn’t attacking the Church, at least I wouldn’t call it that until I knew for sure what the issues are. I can’t tell from the article if he is correct or or not, seems like it is pretty reasonable to get folks out of your church if they were demonstrating or something.

FReegards


18 posted on 03/21/2012 3:52:05 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: NYer

*rolling eyes* They CANNOT place him on the presidential ticket. He does not have the correct citizenship credentials.


19 posted on 03/21/2012 4:05:22 PM PDT by madison10
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To: NYer

The more I see of Rubio, the less I trust him. He strikes me as NOT reliably conservative.


20 posted on 03/21/2012 4:12:39 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: NYer

He’s also not a natural born citizen.


21 posted on 03/21/2012 4:15:12 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: SevenofNine; NYer

from the horses mouth, he is Roman Catholic

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/SEctions/Representatives/details.aspx?MemberId=4180&SessionId=42

florida govt website, he supplies the info.


22 posted on 03/21/2012 4:15:45 PM PDT by RBStealth
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To: NYer
I wish the writer had done a little more reporting, I'd like to know a bit more about what happened.

“last week… the church invited — the cardinal invited — Castro thugs to come into the church and remove people... They wouldn't leave the church until the Pope came to see them, according to CNA. So the pastor called the police and had them removed. ”

Those statements could both be true, and so I'd like a bit more information.

Rubio also denounced the church for “actively participating in exiling dissidents,” sarcastically adding, “somehow exiling someone to Spain is a humanitarian measure.”

Again, I don't know the details, but sometimes if you're Cuban, getting exiled to Spain is considered a good thing. I know people who paid a high personal price to get themselves exiled to Spain. Then again, thats not something a civilized government does to its citizens. No one should have to be separated from home and family for having an opinion.

I don't know for sure specifically what he's referring to but it might just be the story that came out that within the last week that protesters had occupied Minor Basilica of Our Lady of Charity in Havana and the Cathedral of Pinar del Rio in an apparent effort to demand an audience with Pope Benedict during his March 25-29 visit to the country.

So was the pastor doing the Lord's work or knuckling under to political expediency? I can't tell from this article.

23 posted on 03/21/2012 4:33:26 PM PDT by marron
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To: Ransomed
I'm not Catholic, so I won't judge if his criticisms were over the top or not. But we must be in the position to always test what our church teaches and not be afraid to oppose changes that are destructive.
24 posted on 03/21/2012 4:38:46 PM PDT by NavyCanDo
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To: marron; NYer

Mary Anastasia O’Grady had an article in the WSJ that essentially said the same thing - BXVI is not friendly to the Castro regime, but Archbishop Jaime Ortega of Havana has basically done what most churchmen do in Communist countries...maintain a low profile and don’t rock the boat. He’s gotten some concessions, because the Castro government is eager not to cause any public confrontations with the Church, since Castro is seeking international legitimacy.

IIRC, Ortega negotiated the sending of some of these exiles to Spain, which, as you say, was definitely an improvement over rotting in a Cuban jail. It all got more difficult when Spain got a rabidly socialist government (Zapatero) that sided with Castro.

But if Archbishop is genuinely keeping Catholics from seeing the Pope and keeping the Pope from seeing the truth of the Castro regime, he deserves very severe criticism.

My bishop (a Cuban born refugee who grew up here in the US) is going to Havana to meet with the Pope there, mostly to discuss the canonization of Fr Felix Varela, a 19th century Cuban-born priest (who, oddly enough, spent most of his career working among Irish immigrants in New York City!). I’m watching this with great attention.


25 posted on 03/21/2012 4:53:43 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer; All

Rubio is completely off base here. This is about religious freedom and freedom of conscience which precedes all other freedoms. Once religious freedom is allowed to flourish, the very cornerstone of communism is pulled apart and the decrepit structure of totalitarianism crumbles. Just ask John Paul II.


26 posted on 03/21/2012 4:55:14 PM PDT by Steelfish (ui)
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To: RBStealth

Pelosi claims to be Catholic too. Doesn’t mean she is.

Rubio attends another church ... has for years. He’s no longer Catholic.


27 posted on 03/21/2012 4:55:42 PM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: little jeremiah; All

Yes he is.. He was born on American soil... Did he go through a naturalization ceremony??


28 posted on 03/21/2012 4:59:15 PM PDT by KevinDavis (Birthers are losers..)
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To: WPaCon; SevenofNine

Rubio was brought up as a Mormon, or at any rate, he and his family went to a Mormon hall (or whatever they call them) for a number of years during his childhood. I don’t know what his current church is now, but I think the family left the Mormons and went to an Evangelical church.

Perhaps he himself is Catholic now (possibly because of marriage) but I think one of the reasons he endorsed or at any rate supported Romney in the Florida primary, something that was devastating to Gingrich, who initially had a lot of Cuban support, is because of his Mormon connections.


29 posted on 03/21/2012 4:59:33 PM PDT by livius
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To: KevinDavis

His parents were not citizens when he was born.

If you want to be ignorant, fine. There are numerous threads on FR with tons of evidence proving this. Read them if you want to be educated and learn. If you want to remain stupid, your choice. I won’t bother to reply to you since life is short.


30 posted on 03/21/2012 5:05:25 PM PDT by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: NYer

I thought he was a mormon, now I read on the net that he was a mormon who later on converted to catholicism.


31 posted on 03/21/2012 5:15:52 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: NYer

A guy who despises the Castro regime sounds good to me.


32 posted on 03/21/2012 5:19:55 PM PDT by gusty
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To: livius

I’m glad for the Pope’s visit. Castro may be allowing it for his own reasons, but a re-awakened Christianity will heal the damage done even by half a century of communism. The Castro brothers are not long for this world, and the Pope’s visit reminds everyone that a new day is coming.

I’m always suspicious of penetration of the church by the left, and I understand why a Cuban would be sensitive to any kind of apparent appeasement by church leaders. And I can understand why the church might want to avoid getting drawn into politics. There are times when you and your critics can both be at least partly right.

I remember years ago, when Billy Graham was criticized for some remarks that were rather bland, and avoided criticizing the Soviets after he returned from a trip there. He said something like, there is a bigger game afoot. His point was, his job was to preach the gospel and not get distracted by anything that would get in the way of it. I see this as similar. They must not be seen as supporting the regime but they also must not get drawn into the weeds. Preach Christ, and the politics will ultimately come right. Preach Christ, and the regime ceases to matter.


33 posted on 03/21/2012 5:26:42 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron

Yes, I agree. I don’t think Abp Ortega is a true cooperator with Castro or is sympathetic to the brothers Castro, and he probably plays his cards rather carefully.

That said, Fidel is BOUND to die one of these days! Raul is a little better, although certainly no George Washington.

The rumor is that Fidel knows that he’s dying and wanted the Pope to come to Cuba so that he can “get right with God.” We shall see...


34 posted on 03/21/2012 5:33:03 PM PDT by livius
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To: NavyCanDo

“I’m not Catholic, so I won’t judge if his criticisms were over the top or not. But we must be in the position to always test what our church teaches and not be afraid to oppose changes that are destructive.”

Discounting some weird political lie, he obviously believes the Cuban bishops or clergy are colluding with oppression. He’s either right or wrong about that. If he is right, then the bishops are going against the teaching of the Church. It wouldn’t be “attacking the Church” in that case. “Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops” is a quote usually attributed to St. Chysostom.

Look at all the recent threads on the priest who was publicly castigated by the local bishops for refusing the Host to a woman who told him right before Mass and in front of witnesses that this other woman was her lover. Those threads were full of Freeper Catholics who were all over that malarkey, simply because it seems to go against all Catholic reasoning. They certainly were not “attacking the Church.”

Freegards


35 posted on 03/21/2012 5:34:49 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: NYer

Leaving aside the question of whether Rubio is Catholic, or whether his allegations against the cardinal are accurate, it is perfectly fine for a Catholic to criticize, even harshly, the actions of a Catholic prelate in the political arena.

We, Catholics at FR, do that all the time. Remember when a certain university filled with Catholic priests invited a thug to make a speech, a bishop sided with the thug, and pro-life activists were arrested on the university grounds? I wish more Catholics expressed their outrage, but as it was, quite a few did, and good for them.

When it happens, presuming the underlying facts, it is not “attacking” the Church but helping the Church.


36 posted on 03/21/2012 5:36:12 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Ransomed

:)


37 posted on 03/21/2012 5:37:46 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: livius; All

I just did a few searches to try to figure out his religious history.

Apparently, he was born Catholic, then baptized as a Mormon at the age of 8, then later came back to Catholicism at the age of 13. He also has been a member of a Southern Baptist church that passes itself off as nondenominational since at least 2005. Some articles mention that he has been seen publicly at Mass while campaigning since then.

It seems duplicitous that he presents himself as Catholic but also attends a Southern Baptist church (although perhaps not exclusively.) However, one source says that he still is a practicing Catholic, but just attends the Southern Baptist church for the sake of his wife, who is Southern Baptist.


38 posted on 03/21/2012 5:53:01 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: NavyCanDo; NYer
Rubio may have been baptized Catholic but somewhere in his political quest he has become a "whatever you want me to be,I will be it". Unless I were a secular humanist or member of a group that does not hold to a belief in a Triune God I would never vote for him.

He is an opportunistic,dissembling politician who is nice looking.He is the "moderate,middle of the road repub with a Hispanic name,both first and last. No one of good intent and commitment to Christ should waste their vote on him IMO.

BTW it is not wrong to speak out against your own denomination when members are acting in ways contrary to the Way,the Truth and the Life. I think most Catholics are more than willing to castigate and agree that offenders should be corrected,punished and exposed that goes for clergy and lay both. Most are also intelligent and holy enough to realize that every accusation is not necessarily true and not because anyone was trying to impugn the Church,just because humans make mistakes.

Then there is the fact that it is well known and indisputable that Communists and many others have infiltrated the Church in order to destroy it and therefore many stories may be untrue as well as the result of intentionally devised and designed plots to crumple the Church from within.

There are many more reasons for this intensive attack on the Church right now. But in this day and age it is especially important for non-Catholic Christians to be very wary of discrediting Catholics and worse, I believe we must stand together or we in western civilization will disappear ourselves because the enemy is all around us and is "legion".

39 posted on 03/21/2012 5:57:53 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: NYer

Is Rubio still a Catholic? I read recently he has been attending an evangelical church for the past year.


40 posted on 03/21/2012 6:54:58 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: NYer

Politicians ought to tread carefully when making accusations against any government whether it be the Vatican or another foreign government. We should remember that it was the Vatican under the leadership of JPII who helped Reagan and Thatcher to undermine the Soviet Union and the communists in Eastern Europe. There may well be another plausible explanation for the events in Cuba.


41 posted on 03/21/2012 6:58:46 PM PDT by Gumdrop
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I would have expected better fact checking from The Daily Caller.


42 posted on 03/21/2012 7:13:24 PM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: OrangeHoof

“It’s a tricky arrangement because the Church does not want to abandon Cuban Catholics but the more they cooperate with Castro, the more they tacitly endorse his police-state powers.”

Did Pope John Paul II endorse the Polish communist state when he cooperated so that he could shepherd the flock in Poland?


43 posted on 03/21/2012 7:19:00 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Conservative Economic and National Security Commentary: econus.blogspot.com)
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To: al_c

Thanks you are a gem of the Catholic faith


44 posted on 03/21/2012 8:59:51 PM PDT by RBStealth
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To: rmlew
uxorious

Huh??? Want to explain what you're talking about here???

45 posted on 03/22/2012 2:36:46 AM PDT by maryz
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