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"Ale Mary" Dive Bar Uses Monstrance and Chalices for Drunken Revelries
Eponymous Flower ^ | March 25, 2012

Posted on 03/26/2012 1:38:33 PM PDT by NYer

Edit: A definition from Wikipedia is useful here: Blasphemy is irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things.[1] Some countries have laws to punish blasphemy,[2] while others have laws to give recourse to those who are offended by blasphemy. 


[Fell's Point, Baltimore, MD] There was a show called "Cheers" on television years ago.  It was bawdy and vulgar yet there were some borders it was not safe to pass in the early 80s when the show first aired.  It depicted a homey place, reminiscent of an unpretentious neighborhood bar with a hint of old world ambiance and Boston charm.  The heavy wooden furniture and the bar spoke of permanence, elegance,  and  that favorite piety of secular artists, human dignity. It was not always clear who the show's buffoons were, but you knew them when you saw them, and sometimes, it was a comedic mailman who could be the most noble in the simplicity of his fears.  Some other writer said something about irony being lost on a society which had no shame.  That's why we'd like to wield a metaphorical hammer.  Perhaps there are others who can put a better finish on the details of what we will tell.

Satirical painting: priest displeased with Nun?

All we can say is that sometimes evil is really mundane and some of us don't realize that we're not only bufoons needlessly offending  people's religious sensibilities, but far worse than that, we're offending God.  Even the name of the bar, a pun on the Blessed Mother's name seems calculated to be offensive.

Would you like some candy?

 We're not talking about this place, but it's not far from Boston, but it boasts a similar unmistakable charm you'd expect in New England with friendly folks.

One of the features of the bar, and there are many, is its unmistakable Catholic ambiance. It's called, Ale Mary's and is located in Fell's point Maryland. One can just smell the faint aroma of the ocean as you think about it. The food is inexpensive, but if you're Catholic you might find it too expensive for the peace of your conscience to see the sacramental elements of your religion appear for the sake of decoration in peculiarly deliberate ways.

Chalices Used for Holy Sacrifice Being Abused by Patrons

It's not surprising, but it's not acceptable either that chalices which are used in Catholic Mass for the consecration of wine which becomes the blood of Christ, are used by patrons to drink (and get drunk from). They're made of precious metals, sometimes jewels, but their use in such a secular setting is strange and unsettling. No less than the inexplicable painting of a priest with a stole, looking aghast or in surprise at a nun who has her back to him.

The most disturbing thing in the restaurant is the monstrance which is behind the bar used as decoration. The monstrance is large ornate disk, often resembling the sun, which is surmounted in a long stand with a heavy base. It contains a crystal compartment at the center of the disk where a consecrated communion Host can be placed inside and it allows the priest to elevate the entire object by the stand for the veneration of the Sacrament it contains. Seeing this monstrance here in this bar, covered with mardigras beads and a mustached smiley face where the Host would normally be is a little bit like finding family heirlooms in the hands of people who not only use them for purposes for which they were never intended, but use them in disrespectful ways.


Mustached Smiley Face Seems Particularly Malevolent

We found out about this recently and the individual who sent this to us wrote an e-mail complaining about the display of these religious items and even offered to purchase them. Far from being treated with the respect she deserved, her concerns were met with derision. 

Despite the bar owner claiming that no one cared about this clearly blasphemous display of religious artifacts, he asked her to remove an entry she made under the bar at a public site allowing comment on establishments.

As he berated our friend, the proprietor insisted as an argument to justify his sacrilege and disrespect for Catholic sacramentals, that there were even Bishops and priests who thought that his blasphemous inclusion of religious articles was comical and that there was nothing wrong with this display.

Apparently, there's some truth to what he says, because Catholic clergy, including senior, does frequent this place.

We'll be praying a Rosary in reparation for having seen this blasphemy.  Hopefully, the proprietor can be persuaded to part with these items before word of this affects his business either spiritually or financially.


Give them a call:

Corner of Fleet & Washington Sts.
Fell's Point
Baltimore, MD.
21231
410-276-2044


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: bar; md; sacramentals
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To: editor-surveyor
For the discussion:

Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

[Ye] fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

[Ye] fools and blind: for whether [is] greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon. - Matthew 23:16-22


51 posted on 03/26/2012 9:00:19 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: vladimir998

>> “Christians who believe the chalice is some form of super powerful cup should be allowed to drink from them?” <<

.
To take such a drink under such belief is pagan idolatry.


52 posted on 03/26/2012 9:01:09 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: vladimir998

Not sure what the debate about Holy Bible is about. Are they using the word Holy incorrectly too at this bar?


53 posted on 03/26/2012 9:03:44 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: Lil Flower

Some reason I find it hard to believe you are actually following all the rules of the old testament. What do you do for the year of jubilee?


54 posted on 03/26/2012 9:07:03 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: editor-surveyor

You wrote:

“To take such a drink under such belief is pagan idolatry.”

And I see no evidence of anyone doing that.


55 posted on 03/26/2012 9:07:03 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Lil Flower

So educate me, how is it that protestants and catholics don’t use the same 10 commandments? Which one is missing and from which side?


56 posted on 03/26/2012 9:08:39 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: discostu

Then they are not following church guidelines for sacred fessels.

Who is selling them?


57 posted on 03/26/2012 9:12:24 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: discostu

Then they are not following church guidelines for sacred vessels.

Who is selling them?


58 posted on 03/26/2012 9:13:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: for-q-clinton

Those are not idols. These are sacred vessels. They are not worshipped as an idol would be.

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth by using the word “you.”

How would you know what I think?


59 posted on 03/26/2012 9:15:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Sorry for suggesting you should be concerned with their souls.


60 posted on 03/26/2012 9:28:03 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: for-q-clinton

We are concerned for the souls of all sinners.

What made you think I wasn’t concerned? Or that Catholics aren’t concerned?

It’s just that these sacred vessels are being wrongly used. Those people are sinning and will have to answer for it someday.

Did I close the circle now?


61 posted on 03/26/2012 9:37:44 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: for-q-clinton; Religion Moderator

If you click on the Religion Moderator’s name you will find the rules about mind-reading. That’s what I was referring to when you used the word “you” repeatedly.

How can you know what I think?


62 posted on 03/26/2012 9:39:36 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: for-q-clinton

I don’t follow the Jubilee because I am not Jewish. However, that does not change the fact that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. And again, you are not an Old Testament believer, so find something else to make an argument out of.


63 posted on 03/26/2012 9:47:06 PM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: for-q-clinton

Have to get nasty, don’t you? But your iconoclasm puts you in the same camp as the Muslims.


64 posted on 03/26/2012 10:01:19 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: editor-surveyor
To consider the implements of the Lord’s Supper as sacred puts them on a level equal to your salvation, which cannot be so; your salvation is by the grace of YHWH, not man.

What a garbled view of the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist! In any case. the show is disrepect is what is being complained about here, Suppose they had rolls of toilet paper with the words of scripture, or pictures of Jesus painted the toilet bowls? The same thing.

65 posted on 03/26/2012 10:15:14 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Lil Flower

Huh? You are the one attacking me for saying I think the New Testament takes precedent over the old. Not sure why you won’t follow Jubilee—it’s in the old testament, isn’t it?

What changed from the old to the new to make that part of the Old Testament void?

Also while we are at it, I’d really like to know why the 2nd commandment was deleted. I honestly don’t know the answer to that.


66 posted on 03/27/2012 5:37:54 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: RobbyS

How is suggesting that if we worship around a fake ark nasty? I think that’s a fact based on the Bible. And based on the 2nd commandment against idolatry.


67 posted on 03/27/2012 5:40:32 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: RobbyS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUbKe1lSWyc

Ok, I don’t see this getting a bunch of attention. They are idiots. Why give them the attention?


68 posted on 03/27/2012 5:42:19 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: NYer
Lots of old Christian/Catholic items for sale on Ebay. I've even seen relics for sale.
69 posted on 03/27/2012 5:55:40 AM PDT by 4yearlurker (Sorry,no tag line today.)
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To: editor-surveyor

You wrote:

“Vessels cannot be sacred; they are mere implements.”

Exodus 28:2
Exodus 28:4
Exodus 28:38
Exodus 29:6
Exodus 29:29
Exodus 29:31
Exodus 29:33
Exodus 29:31
Leviticus 23:7
Joshua 6:19
1 Kings 1:39
1 Kings 8:4
1 Chronicles 22:19

2 Chronicles 35:3
“Put the sacred ark in the temple that Solomon son of David king of Israel built.”

There’s another sacred vessel!!! And that’s not the only one either.

Psalm 15:1
A psalm of David. LORD, who may dwell in your sacred tent? Who may live on your holy mountain?

Isaiah 64:10
Your sacred cities have become a wasteland; even Zion is a wasteland, Jerusalem a desolation.

Ezekiel 44:19
When they go out into the outer court where the people are, they are to take off the clothes they have been ministering in and are to leave them in the sacred rooms, and put on other clothes, so that the people are not consecrated through contact with their garments.

Ezekiel 45:1
[ Israel Fully Restored ] “‘When you allot the land as an inheritance, you are to present to the LORD a portion of the land as a sacred district, 25,000 cubits long and 20,000 cubits wide; the entire area will be holy.

Zechariah 14:20-21
On that day HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the LORD’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[a] in the house of the LORD Almighty.

Matthew 23:17
You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?

Matthew 23:19
You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?

I think you need to start reading the HOLY Bible.


70 posted on 03/27/2012 6:13:08 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: for-q-clinton

A “fake ark,” What are you talking about?


71 posted on 03/27/2012 7:17:54 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: for-q-clinton

A “fake ark,” What are you talking about?


72 posted on 03/27/2012 7:17:59 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: Salvation

I gave you a link to them on e-bay. You can google “monstrance for sale” and get links to various places. Most decent sized towns have religion supply stores (at yellowpages.com “religious goods” is even an auto complete option you get after typing “reli”) where you can get all kinds of stuff like vestments and portable confession kits. Some might want to see some proof you’re actually a leader of the appropriate religion, especially for the more sacred stuff, but there’s always going to be somebody that doesn’t care. And remember a lot of stuff doesn’t become sacred until it’s brought to a church and had a ceremony performed, until then it’s just decoration.


73 posted on 03/27/2012 8:25:33 AM PDT by discostu (I did it 35 minutes ago)
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To: RobbyS

The 2nd commandment.


74 posted on 03/27/2012 8:57:43 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: vladimir998

.
Stop comparing pagan catholic idolatry with YHWH’s commanded worship for Israel.
.


75 posted on 03/27/2012 8:59:51 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor; vladimir998

wake up — it’s the Christian way practised since the Early Christians. So if a person wants to reject Christianity (i.e. Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Lutheran/Presbyterian etc.) go ahead...


76 posted on 03/27/2012 9:06:09 AM PDT by Cronos (Party like it's 12 20, 2012)
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To: RobbyS

.
The Catholic “understanding” of the Eucharist is a total misunderstanding of a single verse in John 6.

A doctrine of devils, contorted out of misreading a verse ripped out of the rest of the chapter.
.


77 posted on 03/27/2012 9:09:05 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Cronos

No, it is not the Christian way!

It is a ‘way’ contrived in the 4th century by the pharisees that created the ‘catholic’ church, and all its pagan practices.
.


78 posted on 03/27/2012 9:17:26 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor

“A doctrine of devils? Luther disagreed with you.


79 posted on 03/27/2012 10:26:34 AM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: editor-surveyor
>> “They are blessed and sacred because of the proper use of them.” <<

. Then they are an abomination because they’re idols.


Yep. And why did the Catholic church remove the 2nd Commandment from their version (you know, the one about graven images), and instead split the 10th Commandment into two separate ones?

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..."
80 posted on 03/27/2012 10:30:19 AM PDT by crosshairs
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To: crosshairs; editor-surveyor
"Yep. And why did the Catholic church remove the 2nd Commandment from their version (you know, the one about graven images), and instead split the 10th Commandment into two separate ones."

I've spent a consideral amount of time in Israel and seen many devout Christians of all denominations moved to tears at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, at the sites around Nazareth and the Galilee, and at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem because of their direct association with Jesus. Justifiably, no one on these threads would stand for the desecration of these sites by Muslims or hedonists.

For Catholics, the Chalice and Monstrance have a similar importance, not because any intrinsic or symbolic properties they might have, but because of their association with the Real Presence. Don't be surprised when your taunting and irreverence is seen by Catholics as a blasphemy equal to the actions of the descecrators.

81 posted on 03/27/2012 10:57:37 AM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: editor-surveyor

You wrote:

“Stop comparing pagan catholic idolatry with YHWH’s commanded worship for Israel.”

Stop claiming there is Catholic idolatry when there isn’t.


82 posted on 03/27/2012 11:15:18 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: editor-surveyor
It is a ‘way’ contrived in the 4th century by the pharisees that created the ‘catholic’ church, and all its pagan practices.

Serious question: where do you get your history from?

83 posted on 03/27/2012 1:18:32 PM PDT by WPaCon
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To: RobbyS

>> “A doctrine of devils? Luther disagreed with you.” <<

.
Wow!

The Bible disagrees with Luther and the pagan catholic church.


84 posted on 03/27/2012 2:22:52 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: Natural Law; crosshairs

>> “I’ve spent a consideral amount of time in Israel and seen many devout Christians of all denominations moved to tears at the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, at the sites around Nazareth and the Galilee, and at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem...” <<

.
Most of us would be, due to the display of disrespect for God’s word, and for the disrespect of Christ.

Comparing the early Christian worship described by Paul and Luke, with the pagan abomination that the ‘catholic’ church has become is enough to bring tears to any Christian’s eyes.


85 posted on 03/27/2012 2:31:37 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: vladimir998; crosshairs

>> “Stop claiming there is Catholic idolatry when there isn’t.” <<

.
Huh?

* Worship of Ishtar(Mary)

* Worship of graven images, statuary in niches, in defiance of the true 2nd commandment.

* Prayer to dead humans

* Worship of man made implements

* Worship of pagan alchemy (”Eucharist”)

These things are idolatry my FRiend.
.


86 posted on 03/27/2012 2:46:34 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor
"Comparing the early Christian worship described by Paul and Luke, with the pagan abomination that the ‘catholic’ church has become is enough to bring tears to any Christian’s eyes."

Is there some agenda or objective behind your hatefulness and abrasiveness that you would like to share with us? I can't imagine that your behavior is something you is something your pastor, your mother or your children would be proud of.

Do you really want to convert souls or are you simply angry that others do not recognize and follow your brilliance? Because a kind example will ultimately convert more than an insult.

87 posted on 03/27/2012 3:02:02 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Not the Bible, YOU disagree, and I would be surprised to learn that you are two thousand years old and sat at the elbow of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Paul, when they set their words down in order.
88 posted on 03/27/2012 3:02:19 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: editor-surveyor

The first church dedicated to to the Virgin Mary was built after a Church council declared her to be Theotokos. Which is to say that her son Jesus was true God and true man. Mary is revered because she is the first among all us creatures of God, because her son is NOT a creature, the son of God, though like us in all ways except sin.


89 posted on 03/27/2012 3:14:20 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: editor-surveyor

*** Worship of Ishtar(Mary)

* Worship of graven images, statuary in niches, in defiance of the true 2nd commandment.

* Prayer to dead humans

* Worship of man made implements

* Worship of pagan alchemy (”Eucharist”)

**

Catholics worship God.

God the Father
God the Son
and God the Holy Spirit.

I judge that your allegations are false and that you probably know they are false.


90 posted on 03/27/2012 3:22:22 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Natural Law

>> “Is there some agenda...” <<

.
T R U T H !

Millions will burn in hell because of trusting the salvation by Alchemy of the ‘catholic’ church.


91 posted on 03/27/2012 3:27:44 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: RobbyS
"Mary is revered because she is the first among all us creatures of God, because her son is NOT a creature, the son of God, though like us in all ways except sin.

Mary is revered because She is the perfect example. There is no human who has shared a closeness and unconditionally loved Jesus like His mother. She was the first Christian. She was the first to truly accept Christ and the first to evangelize. She was there at every stage of His life and ministry. She was present at His trial, his cruxificition, His death, His resurrection, the first Pentecost and His Ascension.

If those who personally knew and loved the risen Lord call her Theotokos, what credibility have those who disagree?

92 posted on 03/27/2012 3:29:06 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Salvation

.
I have witnessed all of the idolatry that I listed, thus I know that it is true.

.


93 posted on 03/27/2012 3:31:53 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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Comment #94 Removed by Moderator

To: editor-surveyor

Since I don’t know what you have witnessed, I cannot comment here.

Are you a former Catholic, still a Catholic, disgruntled Catholic?


95 posted on 03/27/2012 3:35:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
"I judge that your allegations are false and that you probably know they are false."

I am not convinced he knows them to be false. Some are incapable of believing anything other than what they want to believe. Those are the ones most in need of our forgiveness and prayers.

The only harm they can do is to entice us into the sin of anger and vengeance. The truly amazing thing is that whatever the mischief the devil is up to, regardless of who he has co-opted, if handled properly only serves to increase the glory to God.

"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." - Matthew 5:43-45

96 posted on 03/27/2012 3:45:45 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: Natural Law; Religion Mod

Cease and desist from posting catholic propaganda and falsehoods, and your uninformed opinion of me, per religion forum rules.


97 posted on 03/27/2012 4:20:02 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (No Federal Sales Tax - No Way!)
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To: editor-surveyor

You wrote:

“Worship of Ishtar(Mary)”

We don’t worship Ishtar nor Mary. We also don’t confuse them.

“Worship of graven images, statuary in niches, in defiance of the true 2nd commandment.”

We don’t worship images. None of them are God.

“Prayer to dead humans”

Saints are not dead, but alive in God (just as Christ said), and we worship no saint.

“Worship of man made implements”

We worship no man made implements.

“Worship of pagan alchemy (”Eucharist”)”

The Eucharist is not pagan, but is Christ. Christ is not pagan.

“These things are idolatry my FRiend.”

We don’t do what you claim. I was right. You’re wrong. That’s how it’s going to stay.


98 posted on 03/27/2012 4:21:11 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: editor-surveyor
"Cease and desist from posting catholic propaganda and falsehoods..."

Truth is not propaganda and discord is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. I do not worry about the harm you may do to me or to the Church, but I do worry about the harm you are doing to yourself.

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." - 1 Timothy 4:1-3

99 posted on 03/27/2012 4:42:26 PM PDT by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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St. John of Damascus: Apologia Against Those Who Decry Holy Images

100 posted on 03/27/2012 4:49:53 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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