Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Mormon scholars: Internet spotlights LDS taboos
Provo Daily Herald ^ | March 30, 2012 | Caleb Warnock

Posted on 03/30/2012 9:22:37 PM PDT by Colofornian

OREM -- Online exploration of formerly taboo subjects is changing how Mormons talk about their faith, both officially and socially. What this means to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members was the subject of a UVU conference which launched on Thursday.

Joanna Brooks, an award-winning religious scholar and writer, gave the keynote address of the "Mormonism and the Internet" gathering on Thursday morning.

"One of our big challenges right now is that young people do have a lot of access to information about our history that is not discussed at home and at church," Brooks said. "That is a big frontier for us."

Historically, some subjects are simply not openly discussed within the church. But the Internet has made it difficult for families and official church literature to sidestep controversial elements of its history. As a result, both families and wards find themselves struggling with how to address issues for which there is no "official" church literature.

For most of history, little attention has been paid by the world to what LDS Church authorities have said in twice-yearly conferences. The digital age has changed that. Brooks cited the controversy over how Elder Boyd K. Packer in October 2010 said, while speaking on live television, that homosexuality is not an inborn "tendency." Within hours, Packer's statement was international news. And when the church published Packer's talk, the word "tendency" had been changed to "temptation," which again made news.

As another example, Brooks said that views about blacks that were once widely "taught from LDS pulpits" were discredited in an official church statement last month after national media, reporting on presidential candidate Mitt Romney, quoted a BYU professor.

Those examples represent a sea change for the church, considering that for decades, Mormon scholars were openly told by church authorities not to write about race or other fraught topics, she said. Scholars in the 1960s and 1970s who were exploring how black members came to be forbidden entrance into LDS temples were told the church would be harmed by any spotlight on the issue and scholars could lose their church standing. But today, in a reversal of that policy, the church put out an official statement about its history of race relations, and that statement discredited what had been taught from LDS pulpits for generations, she said.

Those examples show that the Internet "has eroded the church's ability to manage the LDS message," Brooks said. Women of color are likely to soon be the statistical majority of church members, and they have questions about the church's history of dealing both with issues of gender and race. While the church once routinely "deflected" any attempts to discuss such issues, such deflection is no longer possible, she said.

What is needed now is an acknowledgement of the obvious -- that there are difficult issues that church members grapple with, and simply not talking about those issues is no longer an option, she said. Members -- especially younger members -- are discussing formerly taboo subjects, and reading historical documents that parents and church authorities had traditionally been silent on.

"The digital era amplifies the pressure" to be more open and transparent about all aspects of Mormonism, Brooks said. "There is work to do, and if we don't do it, others will do it, and with far less care."

When thorny and heated issues arise, why not discuss them, she said. The challenge for both the church and families is finding a way to address those questions. Yet dealing with such issues openly is new to both the official church, and the culture.

"We are having our adolescence in the public eye, which is never pretty," Brooks said.

Church members in the audience said they were conflicted, feeling "love and respect and anger and frustration" at the way the church is discussed, and the way the church responds to controversy. The youth are "hearing one thing from their mothers, another thing from the pulpit, and another thing from their friends," said one audience member. "Where do we find something in between, a space to ask questions without feeling afraid?"

The blogosphere has become the answer, Brooks said. And unlike the highly managed way the church has been able to present its message in the past, in the blogosphere, that kind of public relations backfires or fails.

In a panel discussion after Brooks' keynote, BYU philosophy professor James Faulconer said sometimes the faithful are swayed by an anti-Mormon faction portraying the church as "duplicitous and hiding things. We have to construct a more resilient Mormonhood where we are not afraid of our own shadow."

Ardis Parshall, whom organizers introduced as an "epic Mormon blogger," said that too many young people, after becoming aware of a historic controversy, "want to go immediately to the limits" instead of seeking original documents, and examining their own family history.

"They accuse people of lying to them because they haven't read the basics, even though the basics have been there," Parshall said. When fraught subjects are approached with fairness and a level head, testimonies "don't get shaken unless you are really always walking on shaky ground."

Too many church members are looking for clean lines in the history of the church, said Faulconer.

"Real history, real lives, and real theology are incredibly messy," he said. "If we only look for things that reaffirm what we already know, I don't think we are being faithful." He suggested that members must become more comfortable "living in the questions" of the Mormon faith.

Mormons simply need to be more courageous in discussing fraught subjects, Brooks said.

"Let's examine our fear of exposure in the light of day," she said. "If I find out something terrible, it may not change who I am. I might be fine. We need to foster places where we can be wrong and it is not a character flaw. It's not shameful if we address it with humility and acknowledge the human-ness of this process."

The "Mormonism and the Internet" conference continues Friday. For information, visit tinyurl.com/uvumormon.


TOPICS: Current Events; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; lds; mormon
From the article about Mormons, citing a Mormon: "One of our big challenges right now is that young people do have a lot of access to information about our history that is not discussed at home and at church," Brooks said. "That is a big frontier for us." Historically, some subjects are simply not openly discussed within the church. But the Internet has made it difficult for families and official church literature to sidestep controversial elements of its history. As a result, both families and wards find themselves struggling with how to address issues for which there is no "official" church literature.

Hmm...If we were to give a family as a parallel example here, this would be called "emotional stuffing."

From the article: Brooks said that views about blacks that were once widely "taught from LDS pulpits" were discredited in an official church statement last month after national media, reporting on presidential candidate Mitt Romney, quoted a BYU professor...Scholars in the 1960s and 1970s who were exploring how black members came to be forbidden entrance into LDS temples were told the church would be harmed by any spotlight on the issue and scholars could lose their church standing. But today, in a reversal of that policy, the church put out an official statement about its history of race relations, and that statement discredited what had been taught from LDS pulpits for generations, she said.

So...'twas "OK" from Mormon pulpits for over a century...but not an interview, eh? 'Twas "OK" for BYU professor Randy Bott to write about in a blog in 2008...and be rewarded by the BYU student body as being "THE MOST popular" prof in America that same year...but what? Now that we have a black president whom a Mormon is likely to be matched up 1x1...that's anathema???

From the article: "The digital era amplifies the pressure" to be more open and transparent about all aspects of Mormonism, Brooks said.

Uh, oh. Have you really looked into that Mormon closet and ALL that's been junked in there?

1 posted on 03/30/2012 9:22:43 PM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All
From the article: Church members in the audience said they were conflicted, feeling "love and respect and anger and frustration" at the way the church is discussed, and the way the church responds to controversy. The youth are "hearing one thing from their mothers, another thing from the pulpit, and another thing from their friends," said one audience member. "Where do we find something in between, a space to ask questions without feeling afraid?"

The crisis -- the fear-factor -- is coming out. Mormons are literally becoming unglued due to the Internet.

The bubble can no longer be protected.

Mormonism...not "true" after all. What will I do? How can I face my family? Won't it destroy family relationships?

2 posted on 03/30/2012 9:25:36 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Now, if we could just convince everyone that Mitt Romney is a taboo for Ameria and doesn’t need to be elected.

We don’t like Obamacare, and we would not like Willard, the flip-flopper’s Romneycare either!


3 posted on 03/30/2012 9:27:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

The point is, there was a lot of false “prophecy” going. There were no golden tablets, angel Moroni, etc. Joseph Smith was not getting direct revelation from God.

Or were the golden tablets only partly right, etc.?

The truth shall set you free.


4 posted on 03/30/2012 9:35:47 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
From the article: ...a UVU conference which launched on Thursday.

Btw, here was another rather interesting presentation article re: what was to occur (last night) at the UVU conference: Survey on Mormon Disbelievers to be Released at UVU Forum [74% point to theological concerns]

Note my post #1 there...mentioning how a Mormon would be releasing his survey of 3,000+ disbelieving Mormons -- saying that "74 percent of respondents citing ceasing to believe in the theology as a major factor"...

Here's the link to a 26-page report this Mormon was unveiling @ the UVU conference: UNDERSTANDING MORMON DISBELIEF: Why do some Mormons lose their testimony, and what happens to them when they do?

From this link: Here are the top five "General Factors Contributing to Disbelief"...[this is found on page 8 chart of results]:

1. I ceased to believe in the church's doctrine/theology (74%)
2. I studied church history and lost my belief (70%)
3. I lost faith in Joseph Smith (70%) [my note: A very bad place to place & transfer faith toward to begin with!]
4. I lost faith in the Book of Mormon (65%)
5. I lost confidence in the general authorities (50%)

Two other factors within the Top 10 included

"I did not feel spiritually edified at church" (47%)
and "Church's stance on race issues (blacks, native Americans, etc.)" (43%).

In contrast to the reasons Mormons & Mormon leaders often pin upon such disbelievers, only 4% said it was because they were offended by someone in the church and 4% also pinpointed "I wanted to engage in behaviors viewed as sinful by the church" [the very bottom reasons listed on the chart].

12% said they "received a spiritual witness to leave the church and go elsewhere"...Over 1/4 said they lost their faith in [the Mormon] God/Jesus.

5 posted on 03/30/2012 9:37:27 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I guess the most perfect church is admitting it’s not so perfect; so it must be a false religion.


6 posted on 03/30/2012 9:40:34 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I thought it said “LDS tattoos” for a second. Now THAT would have been a fun thread :-)


7 posted on 03/30/2012 9:46:50 PM PDT by T Minus Four
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

LOL


8 posted on 03/30/2012 9:51:47 PM PDT by Salamander (You don't know what's going on inside of me. You don't wanna know what's running through my mind.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SeaHawkFan

“Perfect”, in Judeo-Christianity, is usually a term used to describe the Divine - not the human/earthly.

Thus, that a church (an earthly construct) is not perfect does not make it false.


9 posted on 03/30/2012 9:53:41 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SeaHawkFan; All
I guess the most perfect church is admitting it’s not so perfect; so it must be a false religion.

It's more like some of the grassroots are saying that the prophecies of the "prophets" are turning out false en masse...

...all while the "old line" [Ya gotta understand the bulk of Lds general authorities are in their 60s, 70s, & 80s] "dig in" via denial.

It's one thing if somebody 'fesses up to being "wrong" in a sermon...

It's quite another when...

(1)...the propaganda line is "the Mormon god will NEVER let the Lds 'prophet' be led astray" [all as they believe that the church of Jesus Christ led by Jesus the Prophet supposedly -- per Lds doctrine -- went 100% AWOL for about 1800 years]...

...Which means the "old guard" HAS to "hold the line" and will not repudiate anything ANY specific general authority has ever said!

...and (2) The things Lds leaders have falsely said in the past weren't done in the vein of "speculation" -- but were REAL teachings REALLY proclaimed and REALLY embraced by REAL embodied beings!

After all...how many times does a thief have to be arrested for to go to jail for theft?

How many murders must a murderer commit to be convicted?

And how many false prophecies does a "prophet" have to give before being deemed a "false prophet." [Deuteronomy 18 lays this all out]

Alas. The Lds general authorities know this "false prophet" scorecard...

...And therefore can't even 'fess up one false prophesy...

Lest the entire rickety structure come crashing down like the Tower of Babel juggernauts of old!

10 posted on 03/30/2012 10:19:26 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

The internet is making it increasingly difficult for us to Lie for the Lord!

11 posted on 03/30/2012 10:23:23 PM PDT by Zakeet (Obozo is to competent as an Etch-A-Sketch is to art)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Persevero

I am still freaked out about the Holy Underwear thing.


12 posted on 03/31/2012 12:42:56 AM PDT by Yorlik803 (better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
OREM -- Online exploration of formerly taboo subjects is changing how Mormons talk about their faith, both officially and socially.
.
.
. But the Internet has made it difficult for families and official church literature to sidestep controversial elements of its history. As a result, both families and wards find themselves struggling with how to address issues for which there is no "official" church literature.


What can we find an 'OFFICIAL MORMON'    teaching??
Official sites are sites supported by LDS officials unless said official sites are consider unofficial by said officials.
At that point such sites are unofficial unless officially referenced for official purposes by officials who can do so officially.
 
This should not be misconstrued as an indication that official sites can be unofficially recognized as official nor should it be implied that unofficial sites cannot contain official information, but are not officially allowed to be offical despite their official contents due the their unofficialness.
 
Official sites will be official and recognized as official by officials of the LDS unless there is an official reason to mark them as unofficial either temporally or permanently, which would make the official content officially unofficial.
 
This is also not to imply that recognized sites, often used here by haters cannot contain official information, it just means that content, despite its official status, is no longer official and should be consider unofficial despite the same information being official on an official site elsewhere.
 
Even then the officialness my be amended due to the use of the unofficial information which may determine the officialness of anything be it official or unofficial depending on how and where it is used officially or unofficially.
I hope this clear things up for the lurkers out there.
The haters tend to make things complicated and confusing when it is all really quite crystal clear.   --Ejonesie22

13 posted on 03/31/2012 4:51:55 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
"The digital era amplifies the pressure" to be more open and transparent about all aspects of Mormonism, Brooks said. "There is work to do, and if we don't do it, others will do it, and with far less care."

To LIE and EDIT and COVER UP is REALLY what he means!!


And when the church published Packer's talk, the word "tendency" had been changed to "temptation," which again made news.


 


 
Eerily familiar...
 
 

Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.


 



16. Ministry Of Truth

.......

The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.

The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.

The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.

Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.

When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.

In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.

As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.

What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.

In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.

There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.

And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.

 
 


14 posted on 03/31/2012 4:54:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
Now, if we could just convince everyone that Mitt Romney is a taboo for Ameria and doesn’t need to be elected.

BEFORE the Pub's CONVENTION; you boobs!!!!

15 posted on 03/31/2012 4:55:30 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
6. Them damned Flying Inmen on FR!! (Hard data not yet available, but evidence is mounting that the percentages are increasing; and that the effect is being multiplied.)
16 posted on 03/31/2012 4:58:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Mormon scholars: Internet spotlights LDS taboos

Can we now quote from the internet's list of oxymorons with impunity?

17 posted on 03/31/2012 4:59:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

“Cheers: It’s Lonely on the Top (#11.22)” (1993)

Norm: Would you like to tell me what is tattooed on my butt forever?
Cliff: A big American flag with the words “God Bless the U.S. Postal Service”.
[pause]
Cliff: What does mine say?
Norm: I love Vera.
Cliff: If you want I can come over and show Vera.
Norm: No, Cliff, that’s all right.
Cliff: Then would you mind coming by the Post Office and show all the guys?


18 posted on 03/31/2012 5:04:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

19 posted on 03/31/2012 5:07:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

20 posted on 03/31/2012 5:08:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

“this body is a temple, and you ain’t got no recommend”


21 posted on 03/31/2012 5:09:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Persevero
The truth shall set you free.


22 posted on 03/31/2012 5:12:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Elsie


23 posted on 03/31/2012 5:15:51 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

But today, in a reversal of that policy, the church put out an official statement about its history of race relations, and that statement discredited what had been taught from LDS pulpits for generations, she said.
_________________________________________________

Oh noez

Joey Smith thrown under the bus errr prarie schooner...

and Briggie Young joins him...


24 posted on 03/31/2012 5:18:50 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

While the church once routinely “deflected” any attempts to discuss such issues, such deflection is no longer possible, she said.
____________________________________

That must suck...


25 posted on 03/31/2012 5:21:45 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; Elsie

What is needed now is an acknowledgement of the obvious
__________________________________

Gee shes been reading FR...

especially Elsies posts

:)


26 posted on 03/31/2012 5:25:03 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

“We are having our adolescence in the public eye, which is never pretty,” Brooks said.
__________________________________________

Its not the kid stuff if any...

Its the Adults Only stuff...

THats as ugly as...sin...


27 posted on 03/31/2012 5:27:24 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Those examples show that the Internet “has eroded the church’s ability to manage the LDS message,” Brooks said.
________________________________________________

Lies being exposed...


28 posted on 03/31/2012 5:29:57 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

Search Results

Anchor Ink Tattoo
1103 S State St, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 349-2819 anchorink.com

Lost Art
348 South State Street, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 537-7858 lostarttattoo.com

Big Deluxe
730 South State Street, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 355-1696 bigdeluxetattoo.com

Southern Thunder Tattoo Co
819 East 2100 South, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 485-8282

Doc Holliday Tattoo
4777 South State Street, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 268-6789 dochollidaytattoo.com

Good Times Tattooing
511 W 200 S # 135, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 485-4777

Oni Tattoo Gallery
325 East 900 South, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 355-1885 onitattoogallery.com

Susie M’s Gallery Of Fine Tattooing
1361 South State Street #230, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 467-8282 susiemstattoo.com

ASI Tattoo & Artistic Skin
1136 South State Street, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 355-1181

Hardcore Tattoos
1626 South State Street, Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 484-1625


29 posted on 03/31/2012 5:31:02 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; Elsie

James Faulconer said sometimes the faithful are swayed by an anti-Mormon faction portraying the church as “duplicitous and hiding things.
_______________________________________

AWWWWWWW

Isnt that nice

He mentioned us...

:)


30 posted on 03/31/2012 5:32:08 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana
But today, in a reversal of that policy, the church put out an official statement about its history of race relations, and that statement discredited what had been taught from LDS pulpits for generations, she said.




"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

31 posted on 03/31/2012 5:33:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

instead of seeking original documents,
____________________________________________

Those documents if not destroyed are locked up tight in a vault...

They can seek all they want...

Few get to see them...


32 posted on 03/31/2012 5:33:58 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Mormon scholars: Internet spotlights LDS taboos

MORMONism can't even get it's OWN 'taboos' right!!

Read the following:


 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
 
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
 
  1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
  3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
  5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
  7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
  8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
  12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
  14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
  15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
  16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
  19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
  20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.



33 posted on 03/31/2012 5:34:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Too many church members are looking for clean lines in the history of the church, said Faulconer.
_____________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Couple of typos there...

Nana will edit...

it should have been...

“Too many church members are making bee lines out of the church,” said Faulconer.


34 posted on 03/31/2012 5:37:15 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

He suggested that members must become more comfortable “living in the questions” of the Mormon faith.
_______________________________________________

Why must they ???

All the answers are in the Christian Bible...

Theyre entitled to read it...


35 posted on 03/31/2012 5:40:18 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Thanks for the link to an interesting survey.

What's your take on this?

The majority (53%) of disbelievers now consider themselves Agnostic/Atheist/Humanist.

22% still consider themselves Mormon: 16% exclusively Mormon, and 6% consider themselves Mormon in addition to being Atheist/Agnostic.

11% consider themselves Christian of some other denomination, 2% considered themselves Buddhist, while the remainder consider themselves Unsure/Undecided (17%).

Based on this, were I an aggressive, proselytising atheist, I would welcome the Flying Inmans as colleagues. I mean, a 5-to-1 ratio is hard to ignore....

36 posted on 03/31/2012 6:22:50 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (Mi tio esta enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac; Colofornian
Actually, now I think I get it (from the survey, p 23 and 24).

The four most common factors that would cause respondents to consider returning were:
1. Greater openness and acceptance towards those with doubts and/or non-literal beliefs.
2. More transparency and upfront information about historical issues and controversies.
3. More acceptance and equal treatment of homosexuals.
4. More respect, sensitivity, and equality for women.

So it appears that many people are leaving the LDS church....but based on their reasons why (1 and 3 in particular), it's no surprise, Colofornian, that only one in ten is choosing churches such as yours as their destination.

37 posted on 03/31/2012 6:34:57 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (Mi tio esta enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

So, according to Young, does this explain Herman Cain?

38 posted on 03/31/2012 12:20:13 PM PDT by Fast Moving Angel (Newt's not a perfect candidate but Jesus isn't running this year. - shoff)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac; SZonian; reaganaut; colorcountry; greyfoxx39
So it appears that many people are leaving the LDS church....but based on their reasons why (1 and 3 in particular), it's no surprise, Colofornian, that only one in ten is choosing churches such as yours as their destination.

Well...it said 12% are "going elsewhere" ... which is essentially 1 in 8...but who knows where "elsewhere" is??? [Could include a "Unitarian" church...so you're 1 in 10 is probably close]

But that's also within a given time frame...

Mormonism on the Internet has really only undergone heavy exposure for 15 or so years in that venue...and really has only been quite heavily under the Internet microscope since 2007 (or so).

And if a good chunk of these are Utah Mormons, Utah still doesn't have (in some communities) a strong "alternative" Evangelical church.

The other issue we deal with is that many family members' relationships are already heavily strained...and a re-assimilation to another church is feared to only be even more provocative (in the short run, anyway).

39 posted on 03/31/2012 12:43:34 PM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
"...Which means the "old guard" HAS to "hold the line" and will not repudiate anything ANY specific general authority has ever said!"

The image that popped into my mind when I read this was, "Amway with angels..." dunno why...

40 posted on 03/31/2012 1:40:52 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Elsie
Every time you post these wonderful posts, I'm reminded of Mark 4:22: "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad."
41 posted on 03/31/2012 1:44:52 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

Oh, my...Elder Uchdorf .. I’ve hurt myself twice falling out of this chair. I hope you’re satisfied...


42 posted on 03/31/2012 1:48:34 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana
"Those documents if not destroyed are locked up tight in a vault... They can seek all they want... Few get to see them..."

Yep. This is true.

43 posted on 03/31/2012 1:50:30 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

I have often wondered why they bothered to keep these damning documents and artifacts in a vault. Why not just destroy all of them, from the moment they are acquired?


44 posted on 03/31/2012 1:52:31 PM PDT by redhead (Alaska: Step out of the bus and into the food chain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Fast Moving Angel
So, according to Young, does this explain Herman Cain?

You'd have to ask the PRESENT Living Prophet® of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, Thomas Monson - not me; just one of a mere handful of those posting things about MORMONism that SLC wishes would NEVER show up; ANYWHERE!


Office of First President & Living Prophet

November 1st, 2011

The message for this month is -

...to stay on our mantra: We ARE Christians!!

We've been taking a beating on the Internet - especially from those hateful ANTIs on FreeRepublic!
 
We MUST keep the media constantly informed of those things the world considers christian.

We must NOT allow our MORMONness to show thru, as it has gotten a really bad rap thru history - lord only knows why...
 
 
Tommy

45 posted on 03/31/2012 6:09:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: redhead

Now we dance...

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/leader-biographies/president-dieter-f-uchtdorf


46 posted on 03/31/2012 6:11:15 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: redhead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQ6olQjebg&feature=related


47 posted on 03/31/2012 6:15:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: redhead
Hildegard Else Opelt Uchtdorf.

Elsie's Opels



48 posted on 03/31/2012 6:19:33 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
You might want to check out the Mormon Expression podcast series if you haven't already.

Lots of dialogue among (mostly) younger Mormons who are seriously examining and challenging LDS official doctrine and history.

No statistics to cite, but the impression I get from them is similarly that many more ex-Mormons gravitate to atheism/agnosticism/deism than to a conventional, trinitarian church.

49 posted on 04/01/2012 6:01:28 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (Mi tio esta enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Notary Sojac
No statistics to cite, but the impression I get from them is similarly that many more ex-Mormons gravitate to atheism/agnosticism/deism than to a conventional, trinitarian church.

Well, we don't only have to look @ Mormonism to conclude that. The same has been quite true for centuries with Judaism.

I think with Mormons, and other cultists, there still is a higher eventual rebound.

Unlike Judaism, ya gotta understand a certain dynamic here. These Mormons, becoming ex-Mormons, upon finding out how unfaithful (belief-wise; deception-wise) the founders & leaders of Mormonism were & are...feel betrayed...

It's quite comparable to being betrayed by an unfaithful, deceptive lover. Trust goes away. Relational security in a given god goes away.

Does that mean that all never "marry" again? (Of course not).

But like seriously jilted lovers, you don't see a lot of them rushing into a "new relationship."

They have to work thru realizing that not all out there are counterfeits...not all out there are "slick" con men.

50 posted on 04/01/2012 8:51:03 AM PDT by Colofornian ( Tell us: Why do we want to vote for ONE socialist to defeat ANOTHER socialist again?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson