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To: piytar

Actually Ordinatio Sacerdotalis on the question of women and priesthood was clearly irreformable. The libs asked the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in a “dubium,” whether John Paul had intended that it be understood as infallible and the dubium was answered with “Yes.” Then the libs complained that the CDF lacked competence to rule on infallibility, only the pope does—so why did you doofuses send in a dubium? Only when you didn’t get the answer you hoped for do you decide the CDF lacked competence.

In Evangelium Vitae (1995) John Paul II made three clearly, beyond any doubt, infallible statements:
1. that taking of innocent human life is always wrong and no good intention can make it good. Look at par. 52 or 57 or somewhere in there. He clearly invokes the authority of Peter, acts in communion with all the bishops, points out that Scripture, unbroken teaching, and natural law all confirm this truth, then explicitly claims that he is making a definitive ruling. He had to claim the highest level of authority here because some people, for the first time in history, were arguing that sometimes taking of innocent life is okay. Always before, people justified taking of life by first declaring the one(s) being killed guilty. War and capital punishment are not exceptions to no. 1 because they take guilty life. They should be avoided as much as possible but if ever justified, they are cases of taking of guilty life. So there are no exceptions to taking innocent human life.

2. that abortion is a case of taking of innocent human life. Again, some people argue that it’s not human or not innocent and he’s saying, yes it is. Period.

3. that euthanasia also is a case of taking innocent human life (euthanasia defined as deliberately, not accidentally or double-effect, taking the life of a born person. Again, some argue that compassion or some other good intent (mercy killing) makes taking of innocent human life okay. He said, “No.”

and each of the three was as clear an example of an irreformable teaching as you will ever want to see. I use these three to try to clarify for students just what an infallible statement looks like.


19 posted on 04/29/2012 6:09:57 PM PDT by Houghton M.
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To: Houghton M.

Hmmm, didn’t know those were infallible. I stand corrected.


29 posted on 04/29/2012 10:36:09 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: Houghton M.
Actually Ordinatio Sacerdotalis on the question of women and priesthood was clearly irreformable. The libs asked the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in a “dubium,” whether John Paul had intended that it be understood as infallible and the dubium was answered with “Yes.” Then the libs complained that the CDF lacked competence to rule on infallibility, only the pope does—so why did you doofuses send in a dubium? Only when you didn’t get the answer you hoped for do you decide the CDF lacked competence.

You got that right. All of the hallmarks of infallibility are present in the documents that you mentioned. As you said, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was a crystal clear example of infallibility and yet certain groups still refuse to acknowledge it as definitive. A clear look at the text of the infallible part of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and the text of the decrees of Vatican I and Vatican II on how to determine when the Church teaches infallibly make it abundantly clear that the Pope intended this statement to be an infallible exercise of his teaching authority. The Dogmatic Constitution of the Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, clearly decreed this concerning infallibility of the Pope :

“And this is the infallibility which the Roman Pontiff, the head of the college of bishops, enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith, by a definitive act he proclaims a doctrine of faith or morals

Now when we compare the above statement of infallibility to the actual text of Ordinatio Sacerdotalis:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.

All of the criteria set out by the above passage of Lumen Gentium for papal infallibility are clearly met by Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. The pope proclaimed, by a definitive act, a matter of faith and morals, to be held by the whole Church, and by citing his ministry to confirm the brethren, the pope has clearly invoked the power of infallibility, because Lumen Gentium declares explicitly that the power of infallibility protects the pope when he is confirming the Brethren in the faith by a definitive act. (The definition of Papal infallibility from Vatican I's Pastor Aeternus also could be used to demonstrate the infallible nature of this statement.)

The CDF said that the above statement from Ordinatio Sacerdotalis was infallible because of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium but that it was not a solemn definition in itself. That seems a very odd statement, because isn't a definitive act a solemn definition by definition? Doesn't the fact that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis issued a solemn definition to be held by the whole Church make it in and of itself, a dogmatic definition? Wouldn't that then constitute a textbook use of the Extraordinary papal magisterium rather than the Ordinary and Universal papal Magisterium? The only thing it seems to be missing might be an explicit anathema upon those who refuse to assent to the definition. However, I suppose that it could be argued that an anathema is implicit against those who refuse to assent to the definitive acts of the magisterium. After all, presumably those who refuse to assent to the Church's definitive acts are outside Her aren't they?

32 posted on 04/29/2012 11:46:23 PM PDT by old republic
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