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Posted on 05/07/2012 2:39:34 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
Although the sinless life of Jesus Christ is a foundational tenet of the Christian faith, a study recently released by the Diocese of Camden found that 60 percent of practicing Catholics in southern New Jersey believe Jesus sinned during his time on Earth.
"The number of Catholics who have a very flawed, a seriously flawed, understanding of who Jesus is, that's troublesome," Bishop Joseph Galante of the Diocese of Camden said during a press conference, USA Today reports. "We've got to re-focus on how we teach and inform people. Jesus is the foundation of who we are as Catholics."
The study was commissioned by the diocese with the hope that the results would help it to better evangelize the communities it serves. The study was conducted by the Barna Group, a Ventura, Calif.-based research organization, which surveyed 612 adults living in the six New Jersey counties within the diocese.
Of those surveyed, 34 percent identified themselves as Catholic, but there are some discrepancies between what the church teaches and what some of them believe.
For example, the study showed that four out of ten of these Catholics disagree with the idea that sex should be reserved solely for marriage. While 38 percent of the total residents living within the Camden Diocese agree strongly with the idea that the Bible is "totally accurate in all of the principles it teaches," only 28 percent of Catholics in the diocese believe the same.
Another major issue Galante discussed during the press conference was the high number of Catholics in his diocese who simply don't attend Mass. One-third of lapsed Catholics said they have other priorities or are too busy to attend, while others said they just aren't interested in church (27 percent).
"What intrigued me in particular was the high number of people who don't attend Mass simply because they have other priorities," said Galante.
"One of the things we need to do is emphasize that worship time can also be part of family time as well. These findings are both troubling and a challenge as we begin to deepen our evangelization efforts."
Peter Feuerherd, director of communications for the Diocese of Camden, told The Christian Post on Monday that another thing that struck him from the study was the low percentage of Catholics who invite others to church. The study found that Catholics (33 percent) were half as likely as Protestants (66 percent) to invite someone to visit their church.
"I find that the 'ask' is so important, and Catholics are not in the habit of the 'ask.' Even our parishes are not in the habit of the ask," said Feuerherd.
He also indicated that a major issue all churches have to deal with is the tendency for people to want to always be productive in the American culture. Those who don't take time off from work on the weekends are honored in our society, he says, and other "distractions" like youth sporting events and various forms of entertainment can sometimes take away from church attendance.
"I think we have lost ... the idea that whatever that Sabbath day is, it is valuable. It's important that people have it," he said.
Other interesting findings from the study:
-Of the Catholics surveyed, 38 percent favor attending church only on holidays.
-Among all of the adults surveyed, 51 percent said churches are "too involved" in opposing abortion or same-sex marriage.
-Nine out of ten (89 percent) adults said they know about the clergy abuse scandals that have occurred within the Catholic Church. Among those who are aware of the scandals, 89 percent consider it a "major issue."
-Only 18 percent of Catholics strongly agree that it is their personal responsibility to share their religious beliefs with others, as compared to 40 percent of Protestants and 36 percent of people who believe in non-Christian faiths.
Jersey.
RE: I wonder what percent of Catholics think Mary sinned....
Well, don’t sinners need the savior? If you don’t sin, you don’t need a savior.
Keep in mind, I was raised Catholic through my First Communion, attended Chatecism through sixth grade. I only converted to Baptist after agr 40, and many years of being a fallen-away non-denomenational slug. Over half of my family remains Catholic, and I know whereof I speak from personal experience for over 60 years.
The reason I changed to Baptist was, I started reading the Bible, and was amazed at how much of the basic doctrine of Catholicism is in direct conflict with Scripture and the teachings of Jesus.
;^\
I always thought Jesus was a bit rude to his mother at the wedding in Cana. And I wasn’t crazy about his reply to Martha either.
Jesus was a man, to think he never erred seems to me impossible.
Just little sins, you know, the kind that every person is guilty of at least at some point.
Even Jesus and even my sainted father, who really was a saint.
Of those surveyed, 34 percent identified themselves as Catholic.................
It Looks like door to door or on a street or mall. They were not surveyed coming out of your local church nowhere is that stated. Regular Catholic church goers hear the Bible every sunday or everyday mass.
Here is Today's
Reading 1 Acts 14:5-18
There was an attempt in Iconium
by both the Gentiles and the Jews,
together with their leaders,
to attack and stone Paul and Barnabas.
They realized it,
and fled to the Lycaonian cities of Lystra and Derbe
and to the surrounding countryside,
where they continued to proclaim the Good News.
At Lystra there was a crippled man, lame from birth,
who had never walked.
He listened to Paul speaking, who looked intently at him,
saw that he had the faith to be healed,
and called out in a loud voice, "Stand up straight on your feet."
He jumped up and began to walk about.
When the crowds saw what Paul had done,
they cried out in Lycaonian,
"The gods have come down to us in human form."
They called Barnabas "Zeus" and Paul "Hermes,"
because he was the chief speaker.
And the priest of Zeus, whose temple was at the entrance to the city,
brought oxen and garlands to the gates,
for he together with the people intended to offer sacrifice.
The Apostles Barnabas and Paul tore their garments
when they heard this and rushed out into the crowd,
shouting, "Men, why are you doing this?
We are of the same nature as you, human beings.
We proclaim to you good news
that you should turn from these idols to the living God,
who made heaven and earth and sea and all that is in them.
In past generations he allowed all Gentiles to go their own ways;
yet, in bestowing his goodness,
he did not leave himself without witness,
for he gave you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons,
and filled you with nourishment and gladness for your hearts."
Even with these words, they scarcely restrained the crowds from offering sacrifice to them.
Responsorial Psalm Ps 115:1-2, 3-4, 15-16
R. (1ab) Not to us, O Lord, but to your name give the glory. or:
R. Alleluia.
Not to us, O LORD, not to us
but to your name give glory
because of your mercy, because of your truth.
Why should the pagans say,
"Where is their God?"
R. Not to us, O Lord, but to your name give the glory.
or:
R. Alleluia.
Our God is in heaven;
whatever he wills, he does.
Their idols are silver and gold,
the handiwork of men.
R. Not to us, O Lord, but to your name give the glory.
or: R. Alleluia.
May you be blessed by the LORD,
who made heaven and earth.
Heaven is the heaven of the LORD,
but the earth he has given to the children of men.
R. Not to us, O Lord, but to your name give the glory.
or: R. Alleluia.
Gospel Jn 14:21-26
Jesus said to his disciples:
"Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me.
Whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, Judas, not the Iscariot, said to him,
"Master, then what happened that you will reveal yourself to us
and not to the world?"
Jesus answered and said to him,
"Whoever loves me will keep my word,
and my Father will love him,
and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.
Whoever does not love me does not keep my words;
yet the word you hear is not mine
but that of the Father who sent me.
"I have told you this while I am with you.
The Advocate, the Holy Spirit
whom the Father will send in my name-- he will teach you everything
and remind you of all that I told you."
I read 50 plus replies to this thread and all I really saw, save maybe 10 was Catholic bashing ignorance. Shame on you! Thank you to the freeper adding these poor souls to their prayers and welcome to the fold to the newly baptized freeper. I too shall pray for my fellow South Jersey Catholics. Sadly, we could not all be raised by my Mother and taught to read the bible.
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.
RE: Sadly, we could not all be raised by my Mother and taught to read the bible.
In regards to this... maybe you’d like to respond to Post #53 above, as it directly relates to what you just said.
Good point. You do have Jesus, though, wishing that he didn’t have to go through with the crucifixion but willing to do what His Father willed. This gives people a feeling that he was tempted internally, and from that they conclude that he was capable of rebellious thoughts. If thinking about giving into a temptation is already a sin, then the next step follows from that. I’m not saying that’s good theology, but it’s not hard to see why many people think about this as they do.
the only post worth responding to in this thread.
Here, Here! thank you
Thank you for saying so - I never did like that anecdote. Possibly because I myself, in my family, was always the one left to do the work. Later in life, one looks back and sees that the favored family members, who were charming and idle, were being set up to fail in life.
I Thought Catholics believed Mary was “sinless” by the inmaculate conception doctrine ?
I Thought Catholics believed Mary was “sinless” by the inmaculate conception doctrine ?
They’re supposed to, that is, if they want to call themselves Catholic...
If despite our secular educational public school models we find that general illiteracy is on the rise even with respect to the fundamentals on the three Rs, it’s little wonder that religious literacy is all but completely absent. Now it’s all about feel-good Joel Osteen-type infotainment Christianity. Sadly, this has infected Camden NJ and I suspect many other large “Catholic” cities. These are the same morons who pull the lever for Obama and Biden.
If Jesus sinned, which he didn’t, we would all be lost without hope of redemption because the sacrifice had to be without blemish.
Astounding! Are you saying it was more important to do housework than fellowship with God? Wow!
I’m sure these same ‘Catholics’ are equally fuzzy about the Real Presence, the reality of sin, and a host of other bedrock Catholic dogma. But my guess is that even if they’ve sat in the pews diligently for the past 40 years they never heard their priest speak of these things. So absolutely, this is a failure on the part of the hierarchy. The whole purpose of the Church is to preserve and pass on the Deposit of the Faith for the salvation of souls and the Catholic Church in America has failed miserably in that fundamental mission in the post-Vatican II era.
So your god is defined? Who defined him?
Would you care to qualify that; some Catholics, all Catholics, practicing Catholics, CINO's, etc?
Can you explain the difference between Ipsissima Verba Scriptura and Ipsissima Vox Deus is and how that is relevant to the point you are trying to make or to the context of this article?
I reckon we'd call that arrogance or ignorance, or both.
I love God, and am blessed to be raised in the Catholic faith. I thank God every day for the blessings he has bestowed upon me and those living their faith on a day to day basis.
Cana: the equivalent of “What am I gonna do with you?” To me that was always part of the subtle humor of the Bible—a loving remark from a son to his mother.
Martha: an essential lesson for us all. No amount of helping out at the church, doing the newsletter, etc. can make up for listening to the word of our Lord.
Nice point, thanks.
Martha: an essential lesson for us all. No amount of helping out at the church, doing the newsletter, etc. can make up for listening to the word of our Lord.
Somehow I can't imagine Our Lord putting on white gloves and running a fingertip over the mantel.
I read something somewhere about a housekeeper who said Christ would come and talk to her while she polished the household brass. Prayer and doing housework aren't mutually exclusive things.
As for His sinlessness: it is very difficult for sinful humans to imagine one WITHOUT sin.
Remember, Christ's worst enemies could not accuse Him of sin -- see John 8:46, 10:30-33.
The one "sin" they accused Him of was blasphemy "because you, being a man, make yourself out to be God" -- but he WAS (and IS) God himself.
Meaningless information unless it’s broken out by those who attend mass weekly... And those who identify as Catholic but don’t practice.
Oh no - I of course would not say that anything is more important than fellowship with God. But that, in itself, does not absolve one of everyday responsibilities - and work, itself, is a form a devotion and prayer. We are not separated from God, when doing it.
Moreover, in the present and real world, anyone who says to a young person - just leave that task and go have some fun - your brother/sister will see to it - you are Martha and Mary, you two! Is giving them the wrong message about life.
This issue of work/prayer, dependence/independence, is more keenly reflected in the Jewish world, at the moment. Jewish communities always had a prayer life, and also a strong work ethic, and a sense that everyday labor can be sanctified through adherence to Divine Law. But in Israel a the moment, they have a big social debate about the Hassidic Jewish community, who have grown proportionally numerous, and are too much absent from the workforce and dependent upon state handouts.
There is a lot to be said on both sides, but it is basically a Martha/Mary debate. The Hassidic Jews say that their work in study and prayer is more important in keeping Israel Jewish, while the secular majority say that that’s all very well, but why should they work such long hours and sacrifice their family life, so that someone else can sit in a study house.
Everyone sees this from their own point of view.
Ora et labora - "pray and work"; a refrain of the Benedictines (sons and daughters of St. Benedict).
"We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful."[29]
[29] Declaramus, pronuntiamus et definimus doctrinam quae tenet beatissimam Virginem Mariam in primo instanti suae conceptionis fuisse singulari Omnipotentis Dei gratia et privilegio, intuitu meritorum Christi Jesu Salvatoris humani generis, ab omni originalis culpae labe praeservatam immunem, esse a Deo revelatam, atque idcirco ab omnibus fidelibus firmiter constanterque credendam. Cf. Denz., n. 1641.
I too was blessed to be raised Catholic but am a revert after 20 years of wandering in the desert, lol.
Just wish that a post such as this would make ALL Christians see how woefully faith in Jesus has become, rather than as an excuse to trash what they mostly don’t even know or understand.
Oh well, like you said, what we have is a blessing and I am thankful for being where I am now.
The abridged, heavily edited version of the original?
and was amazed at how much of the basic doctrine of Catholicism is in direct conflict with Scripture and the teachings of Jesus.
If you reached that conclusion then you either (A) didn't read the Bible or (B) were loaded when you did.
I just learned at church the last few weeks some interesting things. I trust the pastor and believe that they are true.
One was that people think it was/is impossible for Jews to follow all 600+ Jewish laws. He said MANY observant Jews did/do. (Well, probably not their whole lives....) In fact, some of the leaders thought that if they could just get ALL the Jews to follow all the laws for just one day (but all on the same day!), that would bring the Messiah back!
And Jesus perhaps acknowledged this as well. Like when the rich man asked Jesus, “I have kept all the laws, what must I do to gain eternal life?” And Jesus replied something like “That is good that you keep all the laws, now go give away everything you own.”
And of course the Law does not equate to Sin. The Sermon on the Mount covers that! (One may keep the letter of the Law by not stealing, but then Jesus brings it down to what is in your heart and mind as well (to lust over a woman, car, cow, etc.)
And off topic - but I was surprised to learn that many people had the gift of healing back then. So that in of itself did not set Jesus apart too much. But nobody else could command nature (calming the storm, causing the fish to swim into the nets,, etc.) and of course raising the dead to life WAS a huge deal! And then like you said - the whole making Himself like God thing. ;)
“Springtime of Vatican II” bumpus ad summum
There is a reason she was conceived without original sin. It would make no sense for her, then, to sin later in life. And what sin would she have committed? Pride, envy, sloth, murder, thievery, etc.? I can’t picture the Blessed Mother committing any of these.
Geez.
This is what happens when Catholics ignore the Bible.
Well at least they have Gallante up there. Hopefully he’ll be able to reach them.
Oh, please. I read Scripture every morning. Most folks I know at my parish do the same thing.
Maybe they went to a Latin mass and can’t understand Latin. Heh.
SnakeDoc
I can’t really comment on this without seeing the exact wording of the questions. The results are so ludicrous, I have to wonder if the respondents were misled or confused.
Thomas Aquinas.
Unfortunately since Vatican II, the teaching of the faith has been abysmal (and that’s being charitable). It is no surprise then that our Pope Benedict is striving to make corrections to the teaching of the faith by wayward nuns, and liberal priests - both of which are too much involved in worldly pursuits instead of furthering the knowledge and love of Jesus Christ and the Holy Trinity.
The cleaning out of these heretical religious people within our church cannot be too soon for me.
So, based on this, Barna thinks 60% of self-described Catholics are material heretics? Only about 40% of self-described Catholics can actually be bothered to show up at church on Sunday. As for the rest of them ... if they live like pagans, why would anyone be surprised that they think like pagans?
As opposed to throwing out tired, trite, stereotypes like "Catholics aren't known to read The Bible"??
I'm Catholic. I read from the Bible (or The Bible, if you prefer) to my family just tonight. Trite stereotype disproven.
Pathetic. The poll takers are worse in their job then the so called Catholics are being Catholic. LOL!!
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