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May 6, 2012 | GoldenEagles

Posted on 05/09/2012 4:58:43 PM PDT by GoldenEagles


Allowing homosexuals to serve openly and proudly in the U.S. Military is the single worst thing that has ever happened in American history. That infamous act of the U.S. Congress and the U.S. President, has cut America off from any further access to the resources of Divine Providence. You want to be like other nations? Now you will get the chance.

Romney supported this infamy, and if elected, Romney will block any attempt to reverse it. Therefore, a vote for Romney is a vote to seal this infamy into the fabric of the American identity, and thus to seal America’s fate in self-destruction.

Make no mistake. To vote for Romney is to put your signature on the death certificate that records the Suicide of America. All of this other stuff means nothing.

Even though God’s Prophets have made this clear in their teachings recorded over the last 3,000 years, the people have clearly lost the capacity to appreciate the consequences of defiance and disobedience before God’s Law. Indeed, without vision, the people perish. It is so written. The consequences have always been self-destruction and slavery.

Many say, “Where is the hand of Divine Providence? Show it to me. Then I will believe.”

You cannot see the hand of Divine Providence with your physical eyes, but only by the eyes of the soul. Our Founding Fathers had these eyes open (check out George Washington’s First Inaugural Address) and so too the founding generations of America.

The American people today, however, have these eyelids drooping down unto sleep. They doze in living daylight, in a twilight zone of moral relativism.

If one cannot see, with the eyes of the soul, the role that Divine Providence plays in every dimension of national health, then it is impossible to appreciate this essential component of our national survival, and thus, the people can be led easily astray by the forces of darkness — who are masters at stirring up false hopes, and making false promises — to do things that compromise, and thus make evermore dysfunctional, this most important mechanism of our national survival.

Here we see exactly why it is, that without vision, the people perish. Without the vision of the soul, without these eyes that report the essential nature of the intercession of Divine Providence, the people have no way of appreciating it, no way of understanding it, and thus they know not how to keep it operating for their benefit, and are led into doing really stupid things that cause this all important spigot to be shut off.

That is where we are today. By this act of rebellion, making what God our Father has defined as an abomination in his sight, into a national virtue, and using the full force and authority of the massive machinery of the federal government to promulgate this corruption on an international scale, the spigot of Divine Providence has been cut off. Not a drop issues forth therefrom.

While we may for a time live on the largesse brought forward by the obedience of previous generations unto God’s Law, which allowed great blessings to be poured down upon America from on high, eventually these will be consumed, and we will find ourselves standing in a desert, by comparison to the oasis of liberty handed to us by our forefathers.

Now we see the value of school prayer. Now we see it. This organic institution was designed by God, and intended by God, to keep the vision of the people alive at the level of the soul. This traditional effort to keep alive within the collective soul-awareness of the nation, this all-important truth, that if a nation is to remain secure, free, and prosperous, it must have the intercession of Divine Providence in a multitude of dimensions, and that this intercession must be called forth by the people, we see now, is absolutely essential to the very survival of our nation.

School Prayer was banned nationwide by the U.S. Supreme Court 50 years ago. And thus, the deep shadow of moral relativism, promulgated by the forces of darkness, have had 50 years to attach itself, unopposed, to the American Mind.

50 years later, we find our nation teetering on the very edge of the abyss of national suicide, with one part of the population rushing madly forward, and another part holding back, but losing ground, being dragged forward and over by what appears to be an irresistible tide.

And the question is, will the Republican Party follow the crowd in their headlong rush over the edge and into the embrace of the gaping darkness? Or take a step back, and pull the whole nation thereby back from the brink?

Make no mistake. A heart that supports homosexual rights is a heart of darkness, in rebellion against the Law of God. Therefore, voting for Romney is a choice to take yet another step forward into the darkness, perhaps the last step the nation will take, finding that there is no longer any solid ground under our feet, and no way to make a retreat, a crash landing the only future that life has left to offer us.

There is only one path that leads back to the restoration of American prosperity. Only one path, the intercession of Divine Providence must be restored. We must begin moving back in that direction now. And the Republican Party must lead the way. The Republican Party must plant this standard of sanity firmly upon the battleground of political ideas, and defend it. If not, the nation is lost.

KEYWORDS: america; divineprovidence; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; misc; romney; romney2012; vanity
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To: Aqua225
Alright, if then “apart from the law” where does the ban on homosexuality come from?

I was referring specifically to the Law of Moses, which was the Covenant between God and Israel. Gentiles were not included in that Covenant. That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force.

I believe John defines marriage as a man and woman. And Christians are not to fornicate.

So, you can’t have sex, until your married, and you can only marry if you are man & woman.

The short answer is the God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Matthew 19
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

But this only applies to believers. So why are we Christians forcing our definitions of marriage on unbelieving homosexuals in a so-called free country?

it does not only apply to believers:

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Romans 2:
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16  on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

God's General Revelation of Himself in His Creation is enough to hold all accountable for their rebellion against Him. Besides, this was founded as a Christian nation, not in the ecclesiastical sense, but on Christian precepts and principles, by Christians.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Patrick Henry

If the unbelievers never convert and repent, then how can we be affected in anyway? They are going to hell, not us.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? That was before Moses, too. God's laws (in the general sense) cannot be violated without peril. There are inevitable consequences for breaking them, in this life and in the next. This Nation cannot violate them with impunity.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever."
Thomas Jefferson

Is it really that important for us to violate someone else’s 2nd amendment rights so that we can feel “more Christian”?

Who is talking about violating anyone's 2nd Amendment rights?

"...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty"
2 Corinthians 3:17b
The increasing loss of our liberty in this Nation is no unrelated to the decades-long deliberate sabotage of this Nation's moral compass.


321 posted on 05/11/2012 5:46:00 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: BlackElk

Any particular reason why you chose to ping everybody in the free world in your response to me?

322 posted on 05/11/2012 8:06:28 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Running in circles and screaming is not a strategy.)
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To: BlackElk

OK, I buy it. What is my alternative if he gets the nomination? Four more years of Obamsky?

323 posted on 05/11/2012 8:18:31 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at
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To: BlackElk
BlackElk says, "Since money is their one and only god, it is time to take away their putrid little god. Maybe then they will notice. If not, not."

I see a lot of good points in your post above. But I think your reference to money as their god goes to the heart of it.

It explains why, when the subject of Divine Providence comes up, Romney supporters have no knowledge or experiential basis to discuss it. It's like trying to explain the principle of traffic lights to a blind man who should not be driving in the first place. And moreover, since God frowns on this act of making money into a god, in their feeling world, they register the principle of God as the enemy, an enemy to what they hold dear, a life spent in pursuit of money.

Though all of us are prone to that temptation to one degree or another. The challenge is to balance our love for money, and our longing to have more of it, with our love for principle, and make sure that when these two come into conflict, that our love for principle will always trump the latter.

324 posted on 05/11/2012 11:42:47 AM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: GoldenEagles
Sorry so late in replying... I have been getting in too late to bother with composing anything:

[roamer_1:] Romney's defeat will have nothing at all to do with firing up Obama's base.

I can't imagine a person that fits their definition of the capitalist enemy more perfectly than Romney. His nomination would surely energize the Democrat base.

No doubt, and I agree with you - It is just that Obama's base is insignificant in comparison to the Conservative base - It is always the Republicans' race to lose.

To wit: Just the Christian Right, with no other conservative factions is capable of fielding 30m voters guaranteed - But if you give them someone to vote *FOR*, that number swells tremendously... Estimates range between 60-100m... In an average voting field of 300m, that is close to one-third of all votes cast! And that is JUST the Christian Right.

No, Romney's defeat will occur precisely because the Conservative base will not turn out for him, and that is the only reason. Even as it was with McCain't:

Now they are finally saying that the reason he lost was because Evangelical turnout was not good - No surprise to me, as I predicted it: McCain supported Planned Parenthood, had a libertarian view of sanctity of Life, and railed against the Christians for years. He pointedly refused to go before the Value Voters, prefering to use Saddleback as an interface to the Christians, where he knew he would not be subject to conservative Christians. Palin was just turd polish and could not effect the real outcome. Don't mess with the Pro-Life position, and don't mess with sanctity of marriage, or you will lose. That verdict is clear.

Romney is the same thing only worse. Mormonism alone is a big problem, but his pro-choice, pro-homo record is simply unpalatable - They WILL vomit him out. There is NO WAY that the Christians will sacrifice their unmovable prime principles in order to vote this guy in. It just ain't gonna happen.

So, you see, it isn't that I disagree with you, but that your point is made moot. It is the Conservative base that will reject him, and that will matter more than any other thing.

325 posted on 05/11/2012 11:50:50 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Diamond
Diamond says, "That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force."

Every time you say that you undermine the natural love that God has placed in our hearts for the Ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses for all time. You cannot seperate the ten commandments from Moses. I think most people who respect the ten commandments draw back when you make this statement that on the face of it infers the the ten commandments are no longer in force.

You also undermine the relevance of each time the Master Jesus Christ himself recommended adherence to the law, given by God through Moses, making those statements into a dead letter.

Before you proceed further along this particular path, I would recommend, if you don't mind, that you take each statement Jesus Christ made on Moses, write them down, and under each of them, explain in detail why these statements made by Jesus Christ should be ignored. And then share that with us. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then you will know that there is something not right with this blanket statement, "That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force."

There may be something true in that statement, but as a blanket statement it is false. It is false because the statement tramples on the love God has placed into our hearts for the ten commandments, and the love God has placed in our hearts for the Word of God spoken through Moses, and the love God has placed in our hearts for the service of Moses to the cause of God, which was historic, and a very essential part of the Judeo-Christian Heritage, and most importantly the love God has placed in our hearts for every statement of respect for Moses uttered by Jesus Christ himself. Your statements about Moses should be balanced by the respect that Jesus Christ gave to Moses.

Remember, we are supposed to emulate Christ. Christ taught respect for the Law God gave through Moses. That was part of his teaching. Therefore, to emulate Christ, means to emulate the respect he gave to Moses. In line with the above, I would ask you to explain, in each case where Jesus Christ expressed respect for the Law of Moses, that to be obedient to the Commandments of Christ, this requires us to actually refuse to emulate Christ in that respect.

326 posted on 05/11/2012 12:08:38 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: BlackElk
I asked first. Your turn to answer first! You have been around here even longer than I have but you don’t post very often. I do. I don’t think my ability to answer is in doubt. Yours is.

I think you misunderstood what I posted, I didn't ask you to answer anything. In fact I doubt you have any thing to say I would be interested in. The whole premis of this topic is off the wall and that's what I am saying.

FYI here is what I posted that I believe you are referring to.

No you don't got it! It isn't that I don't have the ability, it is that I have no desire to get into having to prove myself to you.

You might try to do yourself what you want me to do but I also doubt you have the ability.

Note I said you might try to do what you asked me to do, not asking you to do it.

For the record again I don't really intend to debate this with you, when you start with a false premis don't expect me to explain anything to you except that it is false.

327 posted on 05/11/2012 12:14:24 PM PDT by billva
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To: mojitojoe; GoldenEagles
Did you mean to post this on Democratic Underground? ABO!! and O will lose!

ABO is not a conservative position, FRiend, and you are incorrect: Romney has *no* chance of winning.

Look at this:

You are on the Religion Forum screaming at Christians because they will not vote against their principles... and not JUST any old principles, but ALL of their principles, to include Pro-Life and Pro-Marriage - And to top it off, you are demanding they support a candidate who is equivalent to a bishop in a religious sect that is largely rejected by folks hereon.

It seems you are telling Christians to get to the back of the bus and shut up - That does not come from Reagan Conservatism, which says that no Conservative should have to sacrifice dearly held principles.

And it MUST boil down to principles, because those principles are what define us all as Conservatives. If those things are not dear to you, then I would submit that you might want to take a look at whether Conservatism is really what you are practicing.

328 posted on 05/11/2012 12:18:25 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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Comment #329 Removed by Moderator

To: SandyInSeattle
I like to expand participation in conversations here and to identify for many those who hold positions that are inconsistent with actual conservatism as we slim down the movement and move on from this year's nomination fiasco and disaster. With the money worshippers in charge, however temporarily, of the GOP, we need to identify the Remnant to the Remnant. It is an important job and someone has to do it lest we wind up with another utterly unprincipled millionaire backed by corrupt zillionaires buying another GOP POTUS nomination. That's why.

Oh, and identifying the Remnant also requires separating the wheat from the chaff in order to have any chance to advance the causes of the babies, marriage, guns, tax cuts for ordinary folks, ending socialized medicine before it begins (or after, if necessary), and the other issues that actually matter and have nothing whatever to do with the obsessive padding of the trust funds of generations of single-minded greedheads yet unconceived posing as the GOP. That's also why.

Also knowing who has the credentials to participate in the Resistance that will occur REGARDLESS of which of the major party POS nominees is elected. That is absolutely why.

330 posted on 05/11/2012 4:26:34 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: Nachum
One way or the other we get to live under Obamsky or under Rombamsky. If the nominees were Caligula or Nero or Diocletian, I would be taking the route of none of the above. Likewise as to Hitler vs. Stalin or Robamsky vs. Obamsky.

May you continue to be blessed, not only for what you do here but for being who you are!

331 posted on 05/11/2012 4:30:23 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: GoldenEagles
Thank you! May God bless you and yours!
332 posted on 05/11/2012 4:35:17 PM PDT by BlackElk (Romney = Obama = Moloch = Obama = Romney = Moloch = Romney = Obama, Etc.)
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To: All
Romney and Obama - Two Sides of the
Same Piece of Counterfeit Currency.



Notice the divergent directions, as never the twain shall meet. Failure or Victory - there is no in between.

People will tend to grab onto counterfeit currency because it looks real and appears to have value. And they are thirsty to have something of value in their hands. But it is always an empty fraud which inflicts loss upon those whose wallets have become so stuffed.

This poster tells the truth. This poster rips asunder the illusion that there is a real difference between Romney and Obama. There is no difference in the areas that really matter. Everyone who has a conscience (which is still operational) knows this to be true.

The only candidates in the current field that have the (moral and professional) qualifications to be President are Newt Gingrich and/or Rick Santorum. Yet Romney destroyed their reputation in the eyes of much of the Republican electorate with lies.

How can a person who rises on a wave of lies ever be good for America? It is impossible. Those principles which God recommends to our hearts, tells us this is impossible, that any monument, to wealth, or power, built upon a lie must fall. No amount of wishful thinking can make this truth go away.

I have provided a link, below, to a Hi-Resolution JPEG image for the printing of this poster on a large format printer which will produce a high quality printout up to 17 inches wide, and 24 inches tall at 600 DPI (dots per inch), giving you good color, and good detail.

Download: Counterfeit_Currency_Poster_Hi_Res.jpg

Once downloaded, this file can be transferred to a USB drive and taken over to any good copy shop, and they can print it with their large format printers. It doesn't have to be printed at 17x24. Any smaller size would have great detail as well. You could do letter sized sheets with your own color ink jet printer if you like.

Good People want to know what they can do to save the day. You can print as many of these posters as your resources allow, no copyright restrictions, and post them up on every available surface in your community. Very simple, very straightforward. Only elbow grease required.

333 posted on 05/11/2012 6:13:48 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: roamer_1
roamer_1 says (post 325), "Just the Christian Right, with no other conservative factions is capable of fielding 30m voters guaranteed - But if you give them someone to vote *FOR*, that number swells tremendously... Estimates range between 60-100m... In an average voting field of 300m, that is close to one-third of all votes cast! And that is JUST the Christian Right."

Of course you are right. What position does a conservative presidential candidate have to take to energize this great slumbering giant into action?

Is it only national catastrophe that will unite the people?

The people were greatly united after Pearl Harbor. And that unity carried our nation to a great victory. And I remember everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike on the steps of the U.S. Capital singing God Bless America the day after 9/11. And that unity carried our military forces into both Afghanistan and Iraq (which the Democrats conveniently forget today) though victory is a word that has long been absent from the American lexicon.

Victory was not our legacy in Cuba. Victory was not our legacy in Vietnam. Victory was not our legacy in Iraq1, and does not appear to be our legacy in Iraq2, or Afghanistan.

When people wonder what are the signs of American decline, and their brains become numb trying to conceptualize it, our enemies don't have this problem.

America accepted defeat in Vietnam. America accepted defeat in Iraq1. In Americas headlong retreat from Iraq2, we look like we going to accept defeat there. In our headlong retreat from Afghanistan, we look like we are going to accept defeat there. In our determined stance against a nuclear Iran, we look like are going to accept defeat there. In our headlong retreat from the forces of homosexuality, we are clearly accepting defeat on one of the most important fronts of the culture war.

Our nation is clearly not a winner anymore. Our enemies see this, and they are just waiting for the day to put us out of our misery.

I believe that the nation's need for the restoration of our access to the resources of Divine Providence, and the role school prayer must play in that restoration, must play a role in this unity and renewal equation, obviously, from my statements above. Though I think most Christian politicians shake in their boots with terror at the prospect of being laughed out of town if they utter those two words.

But if Christians won't unite around God's Purpose, what will they unite around? They will hold hands only at the prospect of their imminent destruction?

334 posted on 05/11/2012 6:57:31 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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Comment #335 Removed by Moderator

To: GoldenEagles
I'm sorry if I unintentionally gave any impression of lack of respect for Moses or the Law, and I appreciate your efforts to balance my remarks in the right way. What Moses wrote was and is the very Word of God, ok? I have made no disparaging or untrue remarks about Moses or the Law. God spoke through Moses and the prophets. I would have to be out of my mind to disparage that!

At the same time, one needs to interpret those O.T. Scriptures and what Jesus said about them in light of the rest of Scripture. What I I have been trying to do is elucidate what Scripture clearly states about the purpose of the law, why it was given, its present status vis a vis believers, etc. For example:

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except [e]through the Law; for I would not have known about [f]coveting if the Law had not said, “ You shall not [g]covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [h]coveting of every kind; for apart [i]from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart [j]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was [k] to result in life, proved [l]to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.. The law performed a necessary function: "... we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."


Do you not know, brothers and sisters —for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

" Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." That is the position of the believer in Christ.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[a] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[b]

Bottom line is, "23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [a] tutor.

The meaning of these passages seems pretty clear to me. If I have stated something in error, then please correct me. If your argument is with Scripture, then there's nothing I can do about that.


336 posted on 05/11/2012 9:27:56 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Diamond
Observations on the Relationship
between the Law and Christ.

Diamond, I appreciate your reply to my concerns regarding one of our most important heros in Christian cosmology, the Prophet Moses, who is known as the Lawgiver.

First, I would note that you did not quote the words of the Master Jesus Christ whose sayings, as we have them, are dispositive when trying to resolve all doctrinal disagreements among believers. If an interpretation of the writing of a particular Apostle produces a conclusion that contradicts the words of Jesus Christ himself, which appears to be the case here, then that interpretation cannot be correct. That does not mean the Apostle is wrong. It means that the reader is not understanding what the Apostle was trying to say, or the meaning the Apostle was trying to convey. In my opinion, what Jesus Christ actually said about Moses does not allow us to give any amount of short shrift to Mosaic Law, and it was not the intent of the Apostle Paul to do that. And I will try to explain why.

Second, in many cases, the Writing of the Apostle Paul does not ring with great clarity, and this is especially true in areas where he is trying to express inner spiritual realities, which have no previously established physical lexicon. I want to take a close look at the quote from Romans 7 that you provided.

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

When I read this, I say in my own mind, yes, I understand verse 7, it is congruent with everything Jesus Christ taught about the importance of obedience before the law. When I read verse 12, I say in my own mind, yes, I fully undersrand that, it is perfectly congruent with everything Jesus Christ taught about the importance of obedience before the law. But the verses in between, i.e. 8 through 11, appear to contradict verses 7 and 12. So the mind of the reader is left confused.

Paul begins by saying the law is good. Then he appears to say the law was the means by which he was deceived into sinning. Then he says again the law is good. If I was Paul's editor, I would say, please go back and straighten this out.

In the contradictory parts he seems to be saying the law is bad, but this is not what he was trying to get across. He was trying to say, I believe, that the law by itself cannot save you. You need to be obedient to the law AND you must allow Christ to wash your feet. In other words, you must be obedient to the law AND you must allow the intercession of Christ in your world to wash the origins of sin away.

Now, the Jews believed that the law was sufficient for their salvation. If they just obeyed the law, they did not need Christ. (But of course, as I will discuss below, it is delusion to believe one can be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ. It is impossible.) It was the Apostle Paul's job to explain to them why the law by itself was not the whole story, that they needed the intercession of Christ as well. They needed both. And in verses 8 through 11, he was trying to give a rationale to this end, which is not a very good rationale. It is not very good, because it is not clear. It does not readily dovetail with the experience of the average person. The average person does not read that and say, "O I know what he Means!" The average person will be completely confused.

The truth is, that you must be obedient to the law if you are to be saved. Jesus Christ spoke to that exact point. But this is also true, it is impossible to be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ. And Jesus Christ speaks directly to that point as well. These two points always go together, two parts of one whole.

It is impossible to be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ, because, as we behave in sinful ways, the power of sin will build up a momentum of habit in us, a habit that will then drag us along in the same direction, day by day, a habit composed of all of the thoughts and feelings we have experienced within that sinful pattern over weeks, months, and even years. The soul does not have any power to step out of these habit patterns. The soul is bound by iron chains in the habit patterns that it has created for itself.

Take for example the women who make their living as prostitutes in the State of Nevada. This is the life they live, they do it every day, and it becomes a binding habit upon them, which they cannot escape by their own power. Only the Power of Christ can break that habit pattern.

However, the person needs to know the law before they can understand that their behavior is not pleasing in the Sight of God, and has consequences that lead in the opposite direction than that of salvation. They need someone to stand before them to be an advocate for the law, and an advocate for Christ as the means by which obedience to the law can be achieved. The advocate must give them the knowledge of the Law first. Having the law, and the spirit of repentance in their heart, then they can reach out to Christ for help.

When the spirit of repentance is expressed, only then can the Power of Christ break that habit pattern. The role of the advocate is really important in this regard, as the advocate must help to fan up into a conflagration the fire of repentance in the heart of the one bound by sin.

However, even after the person has repented, and received the first installments of freedom, temptations along those same lines will reappear. The person needs to keep the law before them, to understand that they cannot return to the life of sin. Thus the law remains important. And thus, each new day, they must reach out to Christ anew, for the power that will set them free to be sin free in that day. As they do this day by day, the Power of Christ comes to live in them, a power that keeps them free, and eventually will become so strong, that they will be temptation free as well in that particular area.

But we sin in many areas, and each area must be cleaned up, brought into alignment with the law, by the same process of repentance and Christ's intercession. The goal that Christ set before us is perfection. Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. The Lord Christ is empowered to help us achieve this goal.

Even though it might be technically true, that the written law appears to be of no use to a person that has achieved this state of freedom from sin, by the intercession of Christ, it nevertheless remains true, that the person who has actually been set free from sin, in a particular area, by Christ, will never be tempted to express this sentiment, in as much as in this process of becoming the law, by the fire of the Holy Spirit, and by the Grace of God, they have gained a greater appreciation of the law, a greater appreciation than they ever had before, and have a greater appreciation of their duty therefore to always shine the light of respect upon the written law, as it remains the doorway to freedom for all people who are yet trapped by the habit patterns of sin.

The written law as given to us by God, should never be disparaged, as it always remains the essential doorway to freedom.

For people who live in sin, they must have the law as the doorway to exit the life of sin. And the doorway of the law must shine with respect and goodness, if they are to approach it. The door knob is the Promise of Freedom in Christ. They must reach for that doorknob, of the law, and turn it, and pull, for the door to open, wherein the Power of Christ can then stream through to set them free. As it is written, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

The Law must always be respected as the doorway that leads to the state of freedom that only Christ can give.

The effort to know the law, and the effort to be obedient to it, that is the doorway through which the individual draws the Power of Christ into their lives.

Clearly, the Master Jesus Christ taught respect for the Lawgiver Moses, and that is because Moses framed the doorway that would lead the people to the Heart of Christ.

Against this backdrop, we see that one of the goals therefore, of the darkside, which is to say, the demonic realm, especially as it expresses itself through the homosexual rights movement, is to cast mockery upon the Law of Moses, and in that way, block the soul from reaching the doorway of the Law that leads to their Freedom in Christ.

The scope of destructivity that the homosexual rights movement represents can only be accurrately evalulated in this framework, as we see a vast shadow cast across the minds of the whole people, as they are persuaded to turn a cold shoulder in the direction of the Law of Moses, and in this way, their own path to the doorway of the law, that leads to their own salvation in Christ is blocked.

The situation is made the more egregious, as the vast apparatus of the U.S. Govenrment is now being used to cast this shadow upon the minds of the people, not just of our own nation, but that of the whole world. This is one of the prime reasons that America's access to the resources of Divine Providence have been cut off.

The machinery of the American government is now being used to destroy the people's faith in the veracity of the law, and in that manner, cut off the path of salvation.

Thanks Diamond, for giving me the opportunity to discuss this issue in more depth.

337 posted on 05/12/2012 2:46:48 AM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: grumpygresh
>"Maybe I can vote for that felon in WVA."

He looks more honest than Baloney.

338 posted on 05/12/2012 4:56:27 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
Couldn't agree more... This is NOT the time to try and prove a point... And watch Obama put in 2-3 SCOTUS judges and try to paint us as racists for another 4 years... Imagine how scarred the conservative brand will be in 4 years, with the media licking his a$$ another 4 years?

These folks are raving lunatics

339 posted on 05/12/2012 6:12:40 AM PDT by NE Cons (Was a Hard-Core Perry supporter. Now Hard-Core ABO)
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To: GeronL

If you leave the Presidential line blank it is a non-vote and non-votes are not counted
True, but if you leave it blank and the guy next to you votes o bama, that’s +1 for o bama. If you vote ABO it cancels out the vote for o bama.

340 posted on 05/12/2012 6:14:25 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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