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VOTING FOR ROMNEY IS TO VOTE FOR THE DEATH OF AMERICA
May 6, 2012 | GoldenEagles

Posted on 05/09/2012 4:58:43 PM PDT by GoldenEagles

VOTING FOR ROMNEY
IS TO VOTE FOR THE
DEATH OF AMERICA

Allowing homosexuals to serve openly and proudly in the U.S. Military is the single worst thing that has ever happened in American history. That infamous act of the U.S. Congress and the U.S. President, has cut America off from any further access to the resources of Divine Providence. You want to be like other nations? Now you will get the chance.

Romney supported this infamy, and if elected, Romney will block any attempt to reverse it. Therefore, a vote for Romney is a vote to seal this infamy into the fabric of the American identity, and thus to seal America’s fate in self-destruction.

Make no mistake. To vote for Romney is to put your signature on the death certificate that records the Suicide of America. All of this other stuff means nothing.

Even though God’s Prophets have made this clear in their teachings recorded over the last 3,000 years, the people have clearly lost the capacity to appreciate the consequences of defiance and disobedience before God’s Law. Indeed, without vision, the people perish. It is so written. The consequences have always been self-destruction and slavery.

Many say, “Where is the hand of Divine Providence? Show it to me. Then I will believe.”

You cannot see the hand of Divine Providence with your physical eyes, but only by the eyes of the soul. Our Founding Fathers had these eyes open (check out George Washington’s First Inaugural Address) and so too the founding generations of America.

The American people today, however, have these eyelids drooping down unto sleep. They doze in living daylight, in a twilight zone of moral relativism.

If one cannot see, with the eyes of the soul, the role that Divine Providence plays in every dimension of national health, then it is impossible to appreciate this essential component of our national survival, and thus, the people can be led easily astray by the forces of darkness — who are masters at stirring up false hopes, and making false promises — to do things that compromise, and thus make evermore dysfunctional, this most important mechanism of our national survival.

Here we see exactly why it is, that without vision, the people perish. Without the vision of the soul, without these eyes that report the essential nature of the intercession of Divine Providence, the people have no way of appreciating it, no way of understanding it, and thus they know not how to keep it operating for their benefit, and are led into doing really stupid things that cause this all important spigot to be shut off.

That is where we are today. By this act of rebellion, making what God our Father has defined as an abomination in his sight, into a national virtue, and using the full force and authority of the massive machinery of the federal government to promulgate this corruption on an international scale, the spigot of Divine Providence has been cut off. Not a drop issues forth therefrom.

While we may for a time live on the largesse brought forward by the obedience of previous generations unto God’s Law, which allowed great blessings to be poured down upon America from on high, eventually these will be consumed, and we will find ourselves standing in a desert, by comparison to the oasis of liberty handed to us by our forefathers.

Now we see the value of school prayer. Now we see it. This organic institution was designed by God, and intended by God, to keep the vision of the people alive at the level of the soul. This traditional effort to keep alive within the collective soul-awareness of the nation, this all-important truth, that if a nation is to remain secure, free, and prosperous, it must have the intercession of Divine Providence in a multitude of dimensions, and that this intercession must be called forth by the people, we see now, is absolutely essential to the very survival of our nation.

School Prayer was banned nationwide by the U.S. Supreme Court 50 years ago. And thus, the deep shadow of moral relativism, promulgated by the forces of darkness, have had 50 years to attach itself, unopposed, to the American Mind.

50 years later, we find our nation teetering on the very edge of the abyss of national suicide, with one part of the population rushing madly forward, and another part holding back, but losing ground, being dragged forward and over by what appears to be an irresistible tide.

And the question is, will the Republican Party follow the crowd in their headlong rush over the edge and into the embrace of the gaping darkness? Or take a step back, and pull the whole nation thereby back from the brink?

Make no mistake. A heart that supports homosexual rights is a heart of darkness, in rebellion against the Law of God. Therefore, voting for Romney is a choice to take yet another step forward into the darkness, perhaps the last step the nation will take, finding that there is no longer any solid ground under our feet, and no way to make a retreat, a crash landing the only future that life has left to offer us.

There is only one path that leads back to the restoration of American prosperity. Only one path, the intercession of Divine Providence must be restored. We must begin moving back in that direction now. And the Republican Party must lead the way. The Republican Party must plant this standard of sanity firmly upon the battleground of political ideas, and defend it. If not, the nation is lost.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: america; divineprovidence; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; misc; romney; romney2012; vanity
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To: billva; GoldenEagles
Instead of insulting oldenEagles, perhaps you could specify yoyur grounds for disagreement.

Is homosexuality an abomination before God?

For that matter, does an entire lifetime political track record of sociopathic, self-serving lies as to one's beliefs, intentions and policies, make a candidate like Robamney an abomination as well?

Is it OK for the "conservative" candidate to persecute morally conservative churches as Robamney did in Robamneycare to the Roman Catholic and other morally conservative churches in Massachusetts but somehow different when Obozo, following Robamney's lead, does precisely the same thing nationally to the same churches?

If it IS OK for Robamney, please explain WHY it is OK for him and not for Obozo.

Are the values and principles of Western Civilization now irrelevant to the conservative movement because we just gotta beat Obozo even with his whiteface counterpart?

Is the conservative movement now reduced to further slashing the taxes of the privileged and protecting the trust funds of their little Junior Leaguers and polo players (Muffy and Skipper). What do we have for the modest folks who did not generate the zillions of libelous and slanderous advertising that bought the nomination for the Massachusetts trashbag?

Is it your position that we just gotta vote for Robamney because he is about 1% better than Obozo and besides, he is rich!!! and therefore a comfort to GOP voters.

Should we try to nominate George Soros next time? His financial resources make Robamney's finances look like those of a skid row sterno bum. Carville and the old Clinton team could concoct a campaign of even more vicious advertising than Robamney's well-funded but amateur (by comparison) ad execs.

301 posted on 05/10/2012 4:01:22 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: billva

Define conservative for yourself and prove that you are one.


302 posted on 05/10/2012 4:03:09 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: patriot08; All

Excellent. Am off to hunt it up, or something similar online!

*Ecclesiastes 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living, there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

*So there I was, looking for the biblical origin of, “Where there is life, there is hope.” When I found it, it REALLY made me lol, because the end fits our current situation PERFECTLY. Romney, is our living dog.

No one can tell me that God is not in charge folks.
Tatt


303 posted on 05/10/2012 4:17:39 PM PDT by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." Dorothy Bernard)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Job #1 in 2012 as to POTUS was to defeat Romney. We failed to do that and so, as to POTUS in 2012, there IS NO Job #2. Electing Mourdock, Cruz, either Stenberg or the lady endorsed by Sarah Palin in Nebraska and a handful of other candidates for lesser offices is still a priority for this year.

Romney is an utterly arrogant leftist who has bought the GOP nomination by paying off many party figures and many issue groups and, in turn, being bought by his Wall Street backers for what nefarious taxpayer-raping schemes we will find out only IF and when Romney is elected. Thinking that we (or even the usual lapdog monarchist GOP senators or congresscritters known as "moderates") will keep "Romney on the straight and narrow" is a delusion on an identical scale to the proverbial flea crawling up the elephant's leg with rape in mind.

What happened at long last to Lugar in Indiana and what MAY happen to that whore Dewhurst in Texas is the ONLY thing that intimidates the rank and file GOP caucus whores in DC. After November, our next scheduled opportunies will be in 2014 just as we won't be having any POTUS election until at least 2016 (and then only if Romney is beaten now and otherwise 2020). If we could not stop Romney's nomination in 2012, we sure as hell will not stop his renomination as an incumbent POTUS. If Romney has two terms, it will become very hard to find anyone who remembers by 2020 that "Republican" EVER meant something different from Demonrat.

304 posted on 05/10/2012 4:36:23 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: BlackElk
Define conservative for yourself and prove that you are one.

Typical, but I am not proving anything to you. You and what's his name made statements, strong statements, that I disagreed with strongly and I disagreed strongly.

I feel no obligation to prove anything to you.

But I repeat, people who claim to be conservatives and either vote for Obama, or vote for him by not voting for Romney, have their heads stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

If that includes you, to bad.

305 posted on 05/10/2012 4:52:33 PM PDT by billva
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To: CountryClassSF
1. Thank you.

2. There being no POTUS election as to major party candidates worth voting for, all that is left to us this year are those primaries and elections below the POTUS level. Mourdock is nominated and must be elected. There are two conservatives (yet again!) running against the establishment whore in Nebraska. One of the conservatives must be nominate and elected. Ted Cruz MUST be nominated over that establishment whore Dewhurst in Texas and then Cruz must be elected. I think Connie Mack ought to be nominated and elected in Florida but stand ready to be corrected by anyone better informed as to Mack than am I. There are undoubtedly other senate and house races orth supporting. They do NOT include Boehner, Cantor, McCarthy, and their ilk.

God bless you and yours.

306 posted on 05/10/2012 5:01:03 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: billva
It must be awfully crowded where the sun shineth not because that narrow space contains the heads of each and every Romney supporter and each and every Obozo supporter.

It is not surprising that you will neither define the terms you use or answer the questions posed to you. You give every appearance of one who is intellectually undisciplined, motivated by emotions, and incapable of rational debate or understandably unwilling to attempt rational debate given your handicaps.

You feel no ability to prove anything. Got it!

As to the location of your head, that is only toooo obvious. See, I can insult you as well as you insult others. Wanna try again to define yourself as a conservative and to answer the other questions posed? I did not think so.

307 posted on 05/10/2012 5:17:56 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: BlackElk
It must be awfully crowded where the sun shineth not because that narrow space contains the heads of each and every Romney supporter and each and every Obozo supporter. It is not surprising that you will neither define the terms you use or answer the questions posed to you. You give every appearance of one who is intellectually undisciplined, motivated by emotions, and incapable of rational debate or understandably unwilling to attempt rational debate given your handicaps.

You feel no ability to prove anything. Got it!

As to the location of your head, that is only toooo obvious. See, I can insult you as well as you insult others. Wanna try again to define yourself as a conservative and to answer the other questions posed? I did not think so.

No you don't got it!

It isn't that I don't have the ability, it is that I have no desire to get into having to prove myself to you.

You might try to do yourself what you want me to do but I also doubt you have the ability.

308 posted on 05/10/2012 5:25:04 PM PDT by billva
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To: GoldenEagles
While we're a little off topic here, the answer is that those statements of his concerning the law were pre-cross. Context determines meaning. Jesus fulfilled every requirement of the Law on our behalf
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 2:14

Cordially,

309 posted on 05/10/2012 6:03:57 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Aqua225
You are not dead to the law. I am not dead to the law. Ever heard of Jesus’ sermon as relates to the Old Law? Essentially those laws are still “en force”, but he gave a different perspective to each law. In the first place, the Law of Moses was intended only for Israel and was never given to Gentiles. If that were not enough:

Romans 3:
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood —to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished —
26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Galations 2:
15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles
16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!
18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker.
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God.
20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

Cordially,

310 posted on 05/10/2012 6:43:11 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: GeronL
non-votes are not counted

Generally speaking, yes. Various Democrat precincts excepted.

Cordially,

311 posted on 05/10/2012 7:03:56 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: BlackElk
Romney is an utterly arrogant leftist who has bought the GOP nomination by paying off many party figures and many issue groups and, in turn, being bought by his Wall Street backers for what nefarious taxpayer-raping schemes we will find out only IF and when Romney is elected.

I really don't buy the whole "Romney bought the nomination" train of thought. To believe that, you'd have to believe that (a) people who walked into the voting booth and pulled the lever for Romney had absolutely no free will of their own and (b) Romney's people arranged for a large group of real conservatives to run and split the Not Romney vote so that he would sneak in.

Just not buying it.

312 posted on 05/10/2012 8:25:10 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Running in circles and screaming is not a strategy.)
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To: SandyInSeattle

I am coming around to thought of supporting Romney to defeat Obama, but the moment he is elected (if he is elected) to immediately work for his defeat in 2016 for the GOP nomination.

I held my tongue when W was in the White House, I will do no such thing if Mitt is in the White House.


313 posted on 05/10/2012 8:30:08 PM PDT by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: Diamond

Alright, if then “apart from the law” where does the ban on homosexuality come from? My guess is this:

I believe John defines marriage as a man and woman. And Christians are not to fornicate.

So, you can’t have sex, until your married, and you can only marry if you are man & woman.

But this only applies to believers. So why are we Christians forcing our definitions of marriage on unbelieving homosexuals in a so-called free country?

Can’t we hold to our ideals, without forcing it on the unbelievers? I mean, if they have a sincere conversion, then they will have to recognize their homosexual union is no longer marriage.

If the unbelievers never convert and repent, then how can we be affected in anyway? They are going to hell, not us.

Are we afraid our children are going to become homosexual by seeing other homosexuals together? I mean, we should be covering the bases at home on these items. Why should the state have to enforce our beliefs too protect our children?

It’s just going to cost us the voters more in the long run, from all the litigation that is going to attempt to reverse various laws and constitutional amendments.

Is it really that important for us to violate someone else’s 2nd amendment rights so that we can feel “more Christian”?

Anyhow, one good thing will come out of this. I project that Obama is going to lose a significant part of the black vote. Even liberal LA voted against homosexual marriage, due to Compton, if memory serves. This will help ROmney slightly.


314 posted on 05/10/2012 9:36:20 PM PDT by Aqua225 (Realist)
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To: Aqua225

That should be first amendment.


315 posted on 05/10/2012 10:10:34 PM PDT by Aqua225 (Realist)
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To: All
The Law of God
on the Subject of
Sexual Relations

Let there be no confusion in the mind of anyone, that when God speaks, the word spoken is embedded in the structure of creation for all time. And thus, our responsibility to adhere to these ordinances, is before us, at all times. The fact that the Word of God came to the Prophet Moses some 3,000 years ago, does not make it out of date. The Word of God is as fresh and relevant now, as if it was spoken in this very moment. And because the Word of God is part of the creation, it is repeatedly spoken and reiterated in this very moment, and in every moment in time.

All of this is true, because you can see with your own eyes that the mind of man, being so susceptible to vain delusions, needs a reference point, and this reference point was meant to stand for all time, even as a lighthouse marks the rocky shoreline that would spell death to any ship that strikes it.

The whole of Leviticus 18 contains a statement of the Law of God on the subject of Sexual Relations. It is a one-subject chapter. It begins as follows, AND THE LORD SPAKE UNTO MOSES:

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God. 3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. 4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God. 5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

Yes, ”Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them ...” And counterpoint is important to grasp. If we don’t keep the statutes, we shall die in them. This is a promise.

The section on homosexuality reads as follows:

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Very clear, and to the point, the Word of The Lord God, made part of the fabric of this creation 3,000 years ago.

This is how the chapter ends:

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;) 28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

As you can see, there is a warning there. If people choose to defile themselves through the violation of these laws, then “the land itself will vomiteth out her inhabitants.”

There is something about the misuse of the sexual energies that actually defiles the land. Apart from the AIDS virus, we don’t see, with our physical eyes, this defilement, but God sees it, and he won’t allow it to continue. The life energy that is turned upside down in the homosexual act obviously pollutes many hidden dimensions of life.

Now, the meaning of the word “faith” becomes quite clear here. Because we cannot actually see this defilement with our physical eyes, other than in the AIDS virus, we must have faith that the Lord God was telling us the truth. These practices that break the law of God in the area of sexual energy defile the land. We must have faith that God spoke the truth to Moses in this regard — that to engage in homosexuality, is to defile both the individual, and the land, and the land will react, by vomiting out this defilement.

Of course, all of this is a matter of common sense. The homosexual act, with its obsession on human excrement is disgusting in itself. Beyond that, watch any homosexual pride parade, and you will see what defilement means.

Democracy is not a suicide pact. A growing segment of the population wants to run the American ship of state onto the rocks. But the crew of this ship, who still has command of their common sense, has a responsibility to future generations, to see to it that the ship sails on to a safe harbor.

This reference point was given to us because we need it. We need it for the purpose of saving the course of our civilization. For those who yet have the Light of Respect for the Word of God still shining in their hearts, now is the time to pick up this banner of spiritual sanity, and to start fighting back, beginning with the refusal to accept a pro-homosexual individual as the nominee of our Republican Party.

Saying NO to Romney is the exact same thing as saying to the Lord God, "I respect your Word, and your Warning, I will be on your side, and fight for what is right."

316 posted on 05/10/2012 11:30:51 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: SandyInSeattle; Jim Robinson; fieldmarshaldj; Windflier; svcw; Tennessee Nana; Mountain Mary; ...
OK, so don't buy it.

Here's your alternative:

1. Demonstrated fact: Romney spent the entire primary campaign spending gazillions of megabucks on relentlessly negative and absolutely dishonest campaign advertising against any actual Republican candidate with the NERVE to appear as the Great Conservative Hope in any given primary.

2. The negative advertising carpet-bombed the commercial airwaves to a degree unprecedented in GOP history and concentrated on what amounted to lies by omission, i.e. such nonsense as: as a senator, Rick Santorum obtained major sums of federal money for Planned Parenthood. Let's translate that into ordinary English: As Senate Majority Whip, Rick Santorum had the job of enacting a federal budget (something that has not occurred in more than a thousand days to the imagination of the current Demonrat Senate Majority Whip) and that does not mean that Santorum OR ANY OTHER GOP Senator supported such specific items. Every budget is regrettably a grand compromise. For a fuller explanation, discuss this with any state or federal legislator of your acquaintance. The Mittwit may imagine GOP primary voters to be brain dead but some of us are holding out and will be holding out on him and his corrupt money machine in November.

3. The alternative to Santorum being Senate Whip and subjected to such lying by omission by the Massaachusetts trashbag would be to have left ALL GOP Senate leadership posts in the hands of Mitty Romney's left-wing Demonrat buddies in GOP drag like LAMAR!!!, Corker, Cornyn, Hutchison, Bennett, Lugar, etc. who share to a greater or lesser extent Willard's love for social revolutionary policies like holocaust-level baby-killing, Adam and Steve playing make-believe marriage, not wasting on our nation's defense the money ($$$!!!) that belongs in their grandchildren's tax-insulated trust funds; i.e. the same old, same old, boring barons of corruption who keep the taxpayers' money flowing without obstruction to fellow members of their corrupt club. It was to preserve such absolute corruption that any potential candidate with a track record of busting corruption like Sarah Palin just HAD to be destroyed.

4. What's fair is fair. Some of us will spend the rest of our lives relentlessly opposing and destroying these greedy bastards who are destroying our country and using the GOP as their vehicle. Sarah is a young woman as yet and should be able to inspire others and to play a major role in payback.

5. Romney's lavishly funded advertising campaign of lies (not mere disagreements or differences in perception but outright lies) against his opponents was the functional equivalent of the spoiled SOB muscling his way through the feared (by phonies posing as Republicans everywhere) GOP primary process through the use of mountains of money (obtained upon Lucifer, Romney and his contributors only know what promises to sell out the American people), by sticking his thumbs in his ears, waggling his fingers and shouting non-stop in a loud voice: "I can't hear you!!!!" and, of course, being widely supported by the Lame Stream Media (strictly temporarily until all the conservatives were destroyed for this cycle) as Mr. Inevitable. When the media turn on him (as insufficiently Marxist and not quite sufficiently social revolutionary) in defense of their Messiah in the White House, I vow not to feel the slightest twinge of sympathy for this useless bastard who has kidnapped the GOP with mere money.

6. When history is written, it may well be more obvious that Romney caused (and maybe even funded) multi-candidate conservative chaos in this year's festivities. He certainly paid off such diverse interests as South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley and Massachusetts Citizens for Life (this is what Rand called obtaining the sanction of the victim). Either that or the candidates themselves were too impossibly stupid to have attained their prior positions in America's public or private life. I am going with Mittens' corruption of the GOP as a LOT more likely.

7. GOP primary voters certainly have free will but they also have a capacity to be distracted by trivia. Will Lindsay Lohan be sent to jail at last??? Is there any way OJ can be punished even though he was acquitted of Nicole's murder? How about that Caylee Anthony case? Who will win on Dancing with the Stars or on American Idol? Romney has a square jaw and he says he opposes abortion, gay marriage, gun control and all the other things that we oppose. People in Taxachusetts say these are lies and so do some conservative leaders. "Oh, it's all soooooo complicated it makes my head hurt!" Besides, I have to get busy to celebrate Arbor Day! And then, will Bain Capital take over my employer and send my job to Bangladesh so that Mittens can take another photo with his buds with wads of cash sticking out of their carefully tailored suit pockets with s*it eating grins on their faces? Diane Sawyer says Mitty is inevitable and I sure hate Obozo. Time to vote for Romney! Besides, if Romney says the pope personally runs an abortion mill in the back of the papal palace and perpetrates the abortions personally, it must be true or he would not say so, would he?

8. Study up on Occam's Razor. The simple explanation: Romney, to an extent unprecedented in history, used mountains of money to lie his way to the GOP nomination by destroying each and every opponent who came close to contending. If that is even possible to be repeated in the future, then the GOP must be destroyed and actual conservatives must start over again.

9. Step 1: For the good of the nation (in needing an actually conservative party), for the sake of the party, for the sake of each and every cause conservatives hold dear (pro-life, pro-family, pro-gun, military interventionism where warranted, the very sovereignty of the United States, the defense of Western Civilization itself, etc.), ROMNEY MUST BE DEFEATED.

10. Step 2: Start over to rebuild with or without the GOP. Seize it if possible. Destroy it if necessary. Understand, as JimRob has observed, that we have ALREADY LOST this year's POTUS election by Romney's nomination, by allowing the conservative movement itself to wither to relative insignificance to a point where the GOP nomination can be bought, where churches would be openly persecuted by BOTH major party candidates, where (whatever lies Mittens may find expedient to tell) BOTH MAJOR candidates will be enthusiastic baby-killers, marriage destroyers, and enemies of this country and its values.

11. Just in case you fall back on the silly notion that Romney is a real practicing capitalist who, by golly, just UNDERSTANDS how to get us out of the Obozo financial disaster, bear in mind that he is nothing more than a business predator, swooping in on other people's ailing businesses, killing them off and and parting out the resultant corpses and equipment and contracts to the Third World at our people's expense. He would be the best American POTUS Bangladesh ever had, and Red China and Chavez's Venezuela and Castro's Cuba, and every other tin pot dictatorship on earth.

You may not care. I do and I intend to do whatever I can about it starting with trying to defeat Romney to preserve ONE major party as a vehicle for American ideals.

I was a Reagan state chair (and at various other times a YAF State Chair contemporary to Seattle's own Kirby Wilbur, and a YR State Chair and a CR State Chair, and even a Libertarian State Party officer until I grew up, among other things) when he challenged Feckless Ford in 1976 for the nomination then. He came within a sliver of nomination. Thank God, the idiot Ford was defeated by Carter paving the way for the only unreservedly American administration of my adult lifetime. I started voting in 1968 and have made the mistake of voting GOP in every POTUS race (when fewer would have sufficed) until this year. That's all over with now unless and until the GOP nominates a POTUS candidate worth voting for. If the GOP-E won't allow that, let their descendants' trust funds suffer accordingly. Hopefully, fatally so that they will have a harder time buying nominations in the future. Since money is their one and only god, it is time to take away their putrid little god. Maybe then they will notice. If not, not.

BTW, you don't have to buy it. Reality will continue to be reality whether you personally buy it or not.

P.S. Check out Willard's track record in Taxachusetts politics and do it objectively to reveal the genuine horrors that lie withing Willard. Also, his track record as a PERSONAL CONTRIBUTOR to Planned Barrenhood. Don't say you were not warned.

317 posted on 05/11/2012 4:32:55 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: dfwgator

Say it isn’t so.


318 posted on 05/11/2012 4:34:49 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: billva

I asked first. Your turn to answer first! You have been around here even longer than I have but you don’t post very often. I do. I don’t think my ability to answer is in doubt. Yours is.


319 posted on 05/11/2012 4:37:49 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: Aqua225

We need not take up residence in the sewer pipe to prove that our children can resist germs.


320 posted on 05/11/2012 4:39:16 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society. Broil 'em now!!!)
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To: Aqua225
Alright, if then “apart from the law” where does the ban on homosexuality come from?

I was referring specifically to the Law of Moses, which was the Covenant between God and Israel. Gentiles were not included in that Covenant. That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force.

I believe John defines marriage as a man and woman. And Christians are not to fornicate.

So, you can’t have sex, until your married, and you can only marry if you are man & woman.

The short answer is the God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Matthew 19
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

But this only applies to believers. So why are we Christians forcing our definitions of marriage on unbelieving homosexuals in a so-called free country?

it does not only apply to believers:

Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22  Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.



and
Romans 2:
12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16  on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

God's General Revelation of Himself in His Creation is enough to hold all accountable for their rebellion against Him. Besides, this was founded as a Christian nation, not in the ecclesiastical sense, but on Christian precepts and principles, by Christians.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Patrick Henry

If the unbelievers never convert and repent, then how can we be affected in anyway? They are going to hell, not us.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? That was before Moses, too. God's laws (in the general sense) cannot be violated without peril. There are inevitable consequences for breaking them, in this life and in the next. This Nation cannot violate them with impunity.

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever."
Thomas Jefferson

Is it really that important for us to violate someone else’s 2nd amendment rights so that we can feel “more Christian”?

Who is talking about violating anyone's 2nd Amendment rights?

"...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty"
2 Corinthians 3:17b
The increasing loss of our liberty in this Nation is no unrelated to the decades-long deliberate sabotage of this Nation's moral compass.

Cordially,

321 posted on 05/11/2012 5:46:00 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: BlackElk

Any particular reason why you chose to ping everybody in the free world in your response to me?


322 posted on 05/11/2012 8:06:28 AM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Running in circles and screaming is not a strategy.)
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To: BlackElk

OK, I buy it. What is my alternative if he gets the nomination? Four more years of Obamsky?


323 posted on 05/11/2012 8:18:31 AM PDT by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: BlackElk
BlackElk says, "Since money is their one and only god, it is time to take away their putrid little god. Maybe then they will notice. If not, not."

I see a lot of good points in your post above. But I think your reference to money as their god goes to the heart of it.

It explains why, when the subject of Divine Providence comes up, Romney supporters have no knowledge or experiential basis to discuss it. It's like trying to explain the principle of traffic lights to a blind man who should not be driving in the first place. And moreover, since God frowns on this act of making money into a god, in their feeling world, they register the principle of God as the enemy, an enemy to what they hold dear, a life spent in pursuit of money.

Though all of us are prone to that temptation to one degree or another. The challenge is to balance our love for money, and our longing to have more of it, with our love for principle, and make sure that when these two come into conflict, that our love for principle will always trump the latter.

324 posted on 05/11/2012 11:42:47 AM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: GoldenEagles
Sorry so late in replying... I have been getting in too late to bother with composing anything:

[roamer_1:] Romney's defeat will have nothing at all to do with firing up Obama's base.

I can't imagine a person that fits their definition of the capitalist enemy more perfectly than Romney. His nomination would surely energize the Democrat base.

No doubt, and I agree with you - It is just that Obama's base is insignificant in comparison to the Conservative base - It is always the Republicans' race to lose.

To wit: Just the Christian Right, with no other conservative factions is capable of fielding 30m voters guaranteed - But if you give them someone to vote *FOR*, that number swells tremendously... Estimates range between 60-100m... In an average voting field of 300m, that is close to one-third of all votes cast! And that is JUST the Christian Right.

No, Romney's defeat will occur precisely because the Conservative base will not turn out for him, and that is the only reason. Even as it was with McCain't:

Now they are finally saying that the reason he lost was because Evangelical turnout was not good - No surprise to me, as I predicted it: McCain supported Planned Parenthood, had a libertarian view of sanctity of Life, and railed against the Christians for years. He pointedly refused to go before the Value Voters, prefering to use Saddleback as an interface to the Christians, where he knew he would not be subject to conservative Christians. Palin was just turd polish and could not effect the real outcome. Don't mess with the Pro-Life position, and don't mess with sanctity of marriage, or you will lose. That verdict is clear.

Romney is the same thing only worse. Mormonism alone is a big problem, but his pro-choice, pro-homo record is simply unpalatable - They WILL vomit him out. There is NO WAY that the Christians will sacrifice their unmovable prime principles in order to vote this guy in. It just ain't gonna happen.

So, you see, it isn't that I disagree with you, but that your point is made moot. It is the Conservative base that will reject him, and that will matter more than any other thing.

325 posted on 05/11/2012 11:50:50 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Diamond
Diamond says, "That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force."

Every time you say that you undermine the natural love that God has placed in our hearts for the Ten Commandments, which God gave to Moses for all time. You cannot seperate the ten commandments from Moses. I think most people who respect the ten commandments draw back when you make this statement that on the face of it infers the the ten commandments are no longer in force.

You also undermine the relevance of each time the Master Jesus Christ himself recommended adherence to the law, given by God through Moses, making those statements into a dead letter.

Before you proceed further along this particular path, I would recommend, if you don't mind, that you take each statement Jesus Christ made on Moses, write them down, and under each of them, explain in detail why these statements made by Jesus Christ should be ignored. And then share that with us. If you can't bring yourself to do that, then you will know that there is something not right with this blanket statement, "That Mosaic Covenant is no longer in force."

There may be something true in that statement, but as a blanket statement it is false. It is false because the statement tramples on the love God has placed into our hearts for the ten commandments, and the love God has placed in our hearts for the Word of God spoken through Moses, and the love God has placed in our hearts for the service of Moses to the cause of God, which was historic, and a very essential part of the Judeo-Christian Heritage, and most importantly the love God has placed in our hearts for every statement of respect for Moses uttered by Jesus Christ himself. Your statements about Moses should be balanced by the respect that Jesus Christ gave to Moses.

Remember, we are supposed to emulate Christ. Christ taught respect for the Law God gave through Moses. That was part of his teaching. Therefore, to emulate Christ, means to emulate the respect he gave to Moses. In line with the above, I would ask you to explain, in each case where Jesus Christ expressed respect for the Law of Moses, that to be obedient to the Commandments of Christ, this requires us to actually refuse to emulate Christ in that respect.

326 posted on 05/11/2012 12:08:38 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: BlackElk
I asked first. Your turn to answer first! You have been around here even longer than I have but you don’t post very often. I do. I don’t think my ability to answer is in doubt. Yours is.

I think you misunderstood what I posted, I didn't ask you to answer anything. In fact I doubt you have any thing to say I would be interested in. The whole premis of this topic is off the wall and that's what I am saying.

FYI here is what I posted that I believe you are referring to.

No you don't got it! It isn't that I don't have the ability, it is that I have no desire to get into having to prove myself to you.

You might try to do yourself what you want me to do but I also doubt you have the ability.

Note I said you might try to do what you asked me to do, not asking you to do it.

For the record again I don't really intend to debate this with you, when you start with a false premis don't expect me to explain anything to you except that it is false.

327 posted on 05/11/2012 12:14:24 PM PDT by billva
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To: mojitojoe; GoldenEagles
Did you mean to post this on Democratic Underground? ABO!! and O will lose!

ABO is not a conservative position, FRiend, and you are incorrect: Romney has *no* chance of winning.

Look at this:

You are on the Religion Forum screaming at Christians because they will not vote against their principles... and not JUST any old principles, but ALL of their principles, to include Pro-Life and Pro-Marriage - And to top it off, you are demanding they support a candidate who is equivalent to a bishop in a religious sect that is largely rejected by folks hereon.

It seems you are telling Christians to get to the back of the bus and shut up - That does not come from Reagan Conservatism, which says that no Conservative should have to sacrifice dearly held principles.

And it MUST boil down to principles, because those principles are what define us all as Conservatives. If those things are not dear to you, then I would submit that you might want to take a look at whether Conservatism is really what you are practicing.

328 posted on 05/11/2012 12:18:25 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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Comment #329 Removed by Moderator

To: SandyInSeattle
I like to expand participation in conversations here and to identify for many those who hold positions that are inconsistent with actual conservatism as we slim down the movement and move on from this year's nomination fiasco and disaster. With the money worshippers in charge, however temporarily, of the GOP, we need to identify the Remnant to the Remnant. It is an important job and someone has to do it lest we wind up with another utterly unprincipled millionaire backed by corrupt zillionaires buying another GOP POTUS nomination. That's why.

Oh, and identifying the Remnant also requires separating the wheat from the chaff in order to have any chance to advance the causes of the babies, marriage, guns, tax cuts for ordinary folks, ending socialized medicine before it begins (or after, if necessary), and the other issues that actually matter and have nothing whatever to do with the obsessive padding of the trust funds of generations of single-minded greedheads yet unconceived posing as the GOP. That's also why.

Also knowing who has the credentials to participate in the Resistance that will occur REGARDLESS of which of the major party POS nominees is elected. That is absolutely why.

330 posted on 05/11/2012 4:26:34 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: Nachum
One way or the other we get to live under Obamsky or under Rombamsky. If the nominees were Caligula or Nero or Diocletian, I would be taking the route of none of the above. Likewise as to Hitler vs. Stalin or Robamsky vs. Obamsky.

May you continue to be blessed, not only for what you do here but for being who you are!

331 posted on 05/11/2012 4:30:23 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: GoldenEagles
Thank you! May God bless you and yours!
332 posted on 05/11/2012 4:35:17 PM PDT by BlackElk (Romney = Obama = Moloch = Obama = Romney = Moloch = Romney = Obama, Etc.)
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To: All
Romney and Obama - Two Sides of the
Same Piece of Counterfeit Currency.

 


 

Notice the divergent directions, as never the twain shall meet. Failure or Victory - there is no in between.

People will tend to grab onto counterfeit currency because it looks real and appears to have value. And they are thirsty to have something of value in their hands. But it is always an empty fraud which inflicts loss upon those whose wallets have become so stuffed.

This poster tells the truth. This poster rips asunder the illusion that there is a real difference between Romney and Obama. There is no difference in the areas that really matter. Everyone who has a conscience (which is still operational) knows this to be true.

The only candidates in the current field that have the (moral and professional) qualifications to be President are Newt Gingrich and/or Rick Santorum. Yet Romney destroyed their reputation in the eyes of much of the Republican electorate with lies.

How can a person who rises on a wave of lies ever be good for America? It is impossible. Those principles which God recommends to our hearts, tells us this is impossible, that any monument, to wealth, or power, built upon a lie must fall. No amount of wishful thinking can make this truth go away.

I have provided a link, below, to a Hi-Resolution JPEG image for the printing of this poster on a large format printer which will produce a high quality printout up to 17 inches wide, and 24 inches tall at 600 DPI (dots per inch), giving you good color, and good detail.

Download: Counterfeit_Currency_Poster_Hi_Res.jpg

Once downloaded, this file can be transferred to a USB drive and taken over to any good copy shop, and they can print it with their large format printers. It doesn't have to be printed at 17x24. Any smaller size would have great detail as well. You could do letter sized sheets with your own color ink jet printer if you like.

Good People want to know what they can do to save the day. You can print as many of these posters as your resources allow, no copyright restrictions, and post them up on every available surface in your community. Very simple, very straightforward. Only elbow grease required.


333 posted on 05/11/2012 6:13:48 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: roamer_1
roamer_1 says (post 325), "Just the Christian Right, with no other conservative factions is capable of fielding 30m voters guaranteed - But if you give them someone to vote *FOR*, that number swells tremendously... Estimates range between 60-100m... In an average voting field of 300m, that is close to one-third of all votes cast! And that is JUST the Christian Right."

Of course you are right. What position does a conservative presidential candidate have to take to energize this great slumbering giant into action?

Is it only national catastrophe that will unite the people?

The people were greatly united after Pearl Harbor. And that unity carried our nation to a great victory. And I remember everyone, Democrats and Republicans alike on the steps of the U.S. Capital singing God Bless America the day after 9/11. And that unity carried our military forces into both Afghanistan and Iraq (which the Democrats conveniently forget today) though victory is a word that has long been absent from the American lexicon.

Victory was not our legacy in Cuba. Victory was not our legacy in Vietnam. Victory was not our legacy in Iraq1, and does not appear to be our legacy in Iraq2, or Afghanistan.

When people wonder what are the signs of American decline, and their brains become numb trying to conceptualize it, our enemies don't have this problem.

America accepted defeat in Vietnam. America accepted defeat in Iraq1. In Americas headlong retreat from Iraq2, we look like we going to accept defeat there. In our headlong retreat from Afghanistan, we look like we are going to accept defeat there. In our determined stance against a nuclear Iran, we look like are going to accept defeat there. In our headlong retreat from the forces of homosexuality, we are clearly accepting defeat on one of the most important fronts of the culture war.

Our nation is clearly not a winner anymore. Our enemies see this, and they are just waiting for the day to put us out of our misery.

I believe that the nation's need for the restoration of our access to the resources of Divine Providence, and the role school prayer must play in that restoration, must play a role in this unity and renewal equation, obviously, from my statements above. Though I think most Christian politicians shake in their boots with terror at the prospect of being laughed out of town if they utter those two words.

But if Christians won't unite around God's Purpose, what will they unite around? They will hold hands only at the prospect of their imminent destruction?

334 posted on 05/11/2012 6:57:31 PM PDT by GoldenEagles
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Comment #335 Removed by Moderator

To: GoldenEagles
I'm sorry if I unintentionally gave any impression of lack of respect for Moses or the Law, and I appreciate your efforts to balance my remarks in the right way. What Moses wrote was and is the very Word of God, ok? I have made no disparaging or untrue remarks about Moses or the Law. God spoke through Moses and the prophets. I would have to be out of my mind to disparage that!

At the same time, one needs to interpret those O.T. Scriptures and what Jesus said about them in light of the rest of Scripture. What I I have been trying to do is elucidate what Scripture clearly states about the purpose of the law, why it was given, its present status vis a vis believers, etc. For example:

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except [e]through the Law; for I would not have known about [f]coveting if the Law had not said, “ You shall not [g]covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me [h]coveting of every kind; for apart [i]from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart [j]from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was [k] to result in life, proved [l]to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.. The law performed a necessary function: "... we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God."

Or:

Do you not know, brothers and sisters —for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

" Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." That is the position of the believer in Christ.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[a] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[b]

Bottom line is, "23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [a] tutor.

The meaning of these passages seems pretty clear to me. If I have stated something in error, then please correct me. If your argument is with Scripture, then there's nothing I can do about that.

Cordially,

336 posted on 05/11/2012 9:27:56 PM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Diamond
Observations on the Relationship
between the Law and Christ.

Diamond, I appreciate your reply to my concerns regarding one of our most important heros in Christian cosmology, the Prophet Moses, who is known as the Lawgiver.

First, I would note that you did not quote the words of the Master Jesus Christ whose sayings, as we have them, are dispositive when trying to resolve all doctrinal disagreements among believers. If an interpretation of the writing of a particular Apostle produces a conclusion that contradicts the words of Jesus Christ himself, which appears to be the case here, then that interpretation cannot be correct. That does not mean the Apostle is wrong. It means that the reader is not understanding what the Apostle was trying to say, or the meaning the Apostle was trying to convey. In my opinion, what Jesus Christ actually said about Moses does not allow us to give any amount of short shrift to Mosaic Law, and it was not the intent of the Apostle Paul to do that. And I will try to explain why.

Second, in many cases, the Writing of the Apostle Paul does not ring with great clarity, and this is especially true in areas where he is trying to express inner spiritual realities, which have no previously established physical lexicon. I want to take a close look at the quote from Romans 7 that you provided.

Romans 7

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

When I read this, I say in my own mind, yes, I understand verse 7, it is congruent with everything Jesus Christ taught about the importance of obedience before the law. When I read verse 12, I say in my own mind, yes, I fully undersrand that, it is perfectly congruent with everything Jesus Christ taught about the importance of obedience before the law. But the verses in between, i.e. 8 through 11, appear to contradict verses 7 and 12. So the mind of the reader is left confused.

Paul begins by saying the law is good. Then he appears to say the law was the means by which he was deceived into sinning. Then he says again the law is good. If I was Paul's editor, I would say, please go back and straighten this out.

In the contradictory parts he seems to be saying the law is bad, but this is not what he was trying to get across. He was trying to say, I believe, that the law by itself cannot save you. You need to be obedient to the law AND you must allow Christ to wash your feet. In other words, you must be obedient to the law AND you must allow the intercession of Christ in your world to wash the origins of sin away.

Now, the Jews believed that the law was sufficient for their salvation. If they just obeyed the law, they did not need Christ. (But of course, as I will discuss below, it is delusion to believe one can be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ. It is impossible.) It was the Apostle Paul's job to explain to them why the law by itself was not the whole story, that they needed the intercession of Christ as well. They needed both. And in verses 8 through 11, he was trying to give a rationale to this end, which is not a very good rationale. It is not very good, because it is not clear. It does not readily dovetail with the experience of the average person. The average person does not read that and say, "O I know what he Means!" The average person will be completely confused.

The truth is, that you must be obedient to the law if you are to be saved. Jesus Christ spoke to that exact point. But this is also true, it is impossible to be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ. And Jesus Christ speaks directly to that point as well. These two points always go together, two parts of one whole.

It is impossible to be obedient to the law, without the intercession of Christ, because, as we behave in sinful ways, the power of sin will build up a momentum of habit in us, a habit that will then drag us along in the same direction, day by day, a habit composed of all of the thoughts and feelings we have experienced within that sinful pattern over weeks, months, and even years. The soul does not have any power to step out of these habit patterns. The soul is bound by iron chains in the habit patterns that it has created for itself.

Take for example the women who make their living as prostitutes in the State of Nevada. This is the life they live, they do it every day, and it becomes a binding habit upon them, which they cannot escape by their own power. Only the Power of Christ can break that habit pattern.

However, the person needs to know the law before they can understand that their behavior is not pleasing in the Sight of God, and has consequences that lead in the opposite direction than that of salvation. They need someone to stand before them to be an advocate for the law, and an advocate for Christ as the means by which obedience to the law can be achieved. The advocate must give them the knowledge of the Law first. Having the law, and the spirit of repentance in their heart, then they can reach out to Christ for help.

When the spirit of repentance is expressed, only then can the Power of Christ break that habit pattern. The role of the advocate is really important in this regard, as the advocate must help to fan up into a conflagration the fire of repentance in the heart of the one bound by sin.

However, even after the person has repented, and received the first installments of freedom, temptations along those same lines will reappear. The person needs to keep the law before them, to understand that they cannot return to the life of sin. Thus the law remains important. And thus, each new day, they must reach out to Christ anew, for the power that will set them free to be sin free in that day. As they do this day by day, the Power of Christ comes to live in them, a power that keeps them free, and eventually will become so strong, that they will be temptation free as well in that particular area.

But we sin in many areas, and each area must be cleaned up, brought into alignment with the law, by the same process of repentance and Christ's intercession. The goal that Christ set before us is perfection. Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. The Lord Christ is empowered to help us achieve this goal.

Even though it might be technically true, that the written law appears to be of no use to a person that has achieved this state of freedom from sin, by the intercession of Christ, it nevertheless remains true, that the person who has actually been set free from sin, in a particular area, by Christ, will never be tempted to express this sentiment, in as much as in this process of becoming the law, by the fire of the Holy Spirit, and by the Grace of God, they have gained a greater appreciation of the law, a greater appreciation than they ever had before, and have a greater appreciation of their duty therefore to always shine the light of respect upon the written law, as it remains the doorway to freedom for all people who are yet trapped by the habit patterns of sin.

The written law as given to us by God, should never be disparaged, as it always remains the essential doorway to freedom.

For people who live in sin, they must have the law as the doorway to exit the life of sin. And the doorway of the law must shine with respect and goodness, if they are to approach it. The door knob is the Promise of Freedom in Christ. They must reach for that doorknob, of the law, and turn it, and pull, for the door to open, wherein the Power of Christ can then stream through to set them free. As it is written, knock and it shall be opened unto you.

The Law must always be respected as the doorway that leads to the state of freedom that only Christ can give.

The effort to know the law, and the effort to be obedient to it, that is the doorway through which the individual draws the Power of Christ into their lives.

Clearly, the Master Jesus Christ taught respect for the Lawgiver Moses, and that is because Moses framed the doorway that would lead the people to the Heart of Christ.

Against this backdrop, we see that one of the goals therefore, of the darkside, which is to say, the demonic realm, especially as it expresses itself through the homosexual rights movement, is to cast mockery upon the Law of Moses, and in that way, block the soul from reaching the doorway of the Law that leads to their Freedom in Christ.

The scope of destructivity that the homosexual rights movement represents can only be accurrately evalulated in this framework, as we see a vast shadow cast across the minds of the whole people, as they are persuaded to turn a cold shoulder in the direction of the Law of Moses, and in this way, their own path to the doorway of the law, that leads to their own salvation in Christ is blocked.

The situation is made the more egregious, as the vast apparatus of the U.S. Govenrment is now being used to cast this shadow upon the minds of the people, not just of our own nation, but that of the whole world. This is one of the prime reasons that America's access to the resources of Divine Providence have been cut off.

The machinery of the American government is now being used to destroy the people's faith in the veracity of the law, and in that manner, cut off the path of salvation.

Thanks Diamond, for giving me the opportunity to discuss this issue in more depth.

337 posted on 05/12/2012 2:46:48 AM PDT by GoldenEagles
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To: grumpygresh
>"Maybe I can vote for that felon in WVA."

He looks more honest than Baloney.

338 posted on 05/12/2012 4:56:27 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: Conservative Vermont Vet
Couldn't agree more... This is NOT the time to try and prove a point... And watch Obama put in 2-3 SCOTUS judges and try to paint us as racists for another 4 years... Imagine how scarred the conservative brand will be in 4 years, with the media licking his a$$ another 4 years?

These folks are raving lunatics

339 posted on 05/12/2012 6:12:40 AM PDT by NE Cons (Was a Hard-Core Perry supporter. Now Hard-Core ABO)
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To: GeronL

If you leave the Presidential line blank it is a non-vote and non-votes are not counted
____________________________________
True, but if you leave it blank and the guy next to you votes o bama, that’s +1 for o bama. If you vote ABO it cancels out the vote for o bama.


340 posted on 05/12/2012 6:14:25 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: GoldenEagles
I have strayed off topic in this thread too far already but I would like to ask you another question. You state:
In my opinion, what Jesus Christ actually said about Moses does not allow us to give any amount of short shrift to Mosaic Law...

The underlined emphasis is yours. Ok then, here is a requirement of the Law of Moses:

Exodus 23:
14 “Three times a year you are to celebrate a festival to me.

15 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread; for seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt.

“No one is to appear before me empty-handed.

16 “Celebrate the Festival of Harvest with the firstfruits of the crops you sow in your field.

“Celebrate the Festival of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in your crops from the field.

17 “Three times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord.

Deuteronomy 16:
16 Three times a year all your men must appear before the Lord your God at the place he will choose: at the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the Festival of Weeks and the Festival of Tabernacles. No one should appear before the Lord empty-handed: 17 Each of you must bring a gift in proportion to the way the Lord your God has blessed you.

GoldenEagles, if you bother to study these, they involve offering sacrifices at the only place authorized for such - at the temple, and the only temple was in Jerusalem. All the men of Israel were to assemble as commanded by God at the location specified by God on those three feasts. The Law of Moses included all the sacrifices throughout the year at the temple.

My question to you is this; do you offer those same sacrifices Golden Eagle? If not, why not, as they are codified in the the Law of Moses?

Cordially,

341 posted on 05/12/2012 6:17:55 AM PDT by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Rome2000
Bingo... And there you have it.. The reason for so much of this anti-Mitt crazed hate. Sick, twisted, irrational... So much so, that you'd rather have a Kenyan Marxist in power- who is destroying our great country

You have JimRob who despises Mitt based in his views, and that's fine.. He'll sit out... But folks like yourselves- with your blatant religious hate, are something else.

342 posted on 05/12/2012 6:22:18 AM PDT by NE Cons (Was a Hard-Core Perry supporter. Now Hard-Core ABO)
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To: GreyMountainReagan

I would guess 85-90% based on what I’ve read here.


343 posted on 05/12/2012 6:23:57 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: GreyMountainReagan

I would guess 15-20%. Nationwide, conservatives and GOP I would guess 1%.


344 posted on 05/12/2012 6:25:02 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: mojitojoe

#343, scratch that reply. I meant to say 85-90% would vote for Romney.


345 posted on 05/12/2012 6:44:14 AM PDT by mojitojoe (American by birth. Southern by the grace of God. Conservative by reason and logic.)
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To: GoldenEagles
What position does a conservative presidential candidate have to take to energize this great slumbering giant into action?

First of all, IMHO, I believe the primary elections are manipulated so that a 'Reagan' never happens again.

Secondly, I think that without Reagan Conservatism, the loosing of the Conservative juggernaut is nearly impossible. Anyone who endeavors to hyphenate Conservatism (including Palin btw) is hyphenating it in order to change what it is:

It is Goldwater libertarianism combined with the Judeo-Christian ethic (primarily Evangelical) in it's conscience, with an adherence to certain and defined principles which, when held ALL TOGETHER, are inclusive of the 3 major Conservative factions (Social Conservatism [SOCON], Financial/Libertarian Conservatism [FICON], and Defense/Foreign Policy Conservatism [DEFCON]).

What Reagan positively defined is the proposition that it does you, the voter, no harm to vote for a candidate that holds not only your principles, but the principles of all of the conservative factions - together in ONE candidate - And Reagan Conservatism is just that:

As a social conservative, you will natively uphold the purposes and principles of the vast Christian Right, but you may well have no interest in financial/libertarian conservatism or defense/foreign policy conservatism... But if you understand what Reagan wrought, you should forego a purely Christian candidate for a candidate which can stand astride all three factions and harness them together. Those factions harnessed together ARE the Conservative juggernaut, which IS unstoppable, and which speaks truths that 60%+ of Americans will hear like a pealing bell.

That candidate will not only hold the principles that you adhere to (inherent within the Christian Right), but will also be acceptable to the FICONS and the DEFCONS, because he adheres to their principles too. Without that 'harnessing together', the juggernaut cannot be formed, and the factions go their separate ways, falling powerlessly back into the vast sea of voters.

So, you see, despite what most folks here cry for, pragmatism, ABO, lesser of 2 evils, it is the purity candidate that is the only chance at a real victory - But not a pure SOCON, not a pure FICON, and not a pure DEFCON - What is needful is a pure Reaganite.

Unfortunately, the NeoCons hold power - NeoConservatism is a euphemism to describe the Baker wing 'moderates' of the Republican Party (Bush, Bush Jr, McCain)- They claim Reagan, but gain their power by division, not by inclusion. They have historically feigned allegiance to the principles of the Christians and Defense conservatives, but have successfully omitted the inclusion of Financial/libertarian conservatives, and with that, have omitted civil-libertarianism from the conscience of most conservative folks today - Something a Reaganite would never do.

But in doing so, NeoCons gain just enough voting power to hold on to power, and without the necessary civil-libertarian element, we spin ever toward the left, as Neocons attempt to consolidate by trying to gain votes form a largely imaginary middle. This is why pragmatism is preached.

But there is hope: The TEA parties are American Conservatives crying out, and it is no coincidence that it is formed largely of civil-libertarianism combined with a still burgeoning Christian Right component. And it is no surprise that they are insistent that their candidates adhere to the principles of those two factions... This is Reaganism's core re-consolidating beyond the reach of the Republican party. And it is my hope that they stand true to their cause and get behind a Conservative presidential candidate, even if it means that a 3rd party is employed.

346 posted on 05/12/2012 12:06:33 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: GoldenEagles; Diamond
Clearly, the Master Jesus Christ taught respect for the Lawgiver Moses, and that is because Moses framed the doorway that would lead the people to the Heart of Christ.

AMEN!

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

(e-Sword:KJV)

347 posted on 05/12/2012 12:25:13 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1
NeoConservatism is a euphemism to describe the Baker wing 'moderates' of the Republican Party (Bush, Bush Jr, McCain)

Jim Baker? James A. Baker III? The Reagan-Bush guy?

By now, "neocons" are all things to all men, but the foreign policy "neocons" hated and still hate Jim Baker.

As politicians go, he wasn't awful. As I recall, he didn't have much to say about social conservatism one way or the other.

348 posted on 05/12/2012 12:27:33 PM PDT by x
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To: Diamond; GoldenEagles
GoldenEagles, if you bother to study these, they involve offering sacrifices at the only place authorized for such - at the temple, and the only temple was in Jerusalem. All the men of Israel were to assemble as commanded by God at the location specified by God on those three feasts. The Law of Moses included all the sacrifices throughout the year at the temple.

My question to you is this; do you offer those same sacrifices Golden Eagle? If not, why not, as they are codified in the the Law of Moses?

I know it is bad form to answer a question with a question, but in part, the answer you are seeking must include the following:

If one follows the great prophets, one will find that they predict a time when the law will go forth from Jerusalem, where David's throne is established eternally. At that time, those same feasts (sacrifices included) are being practiced, and all of the men in the entire world (ie: father and first born son) are required to attend... else they will get no rain.

My question, FRiend, is: "How do we get from here to there?" And with my previous post in mind, did the prophets get it wrong? Did Yeshua change that?

349 posted on 05/12/2012 12:55:18 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: BlackElk

That’s what I thought.


350 posted on 05/12/2012 1:23:49 PM PDT by SandyInSeattle (Running in circles and screaming is not a strategy.)
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