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The Rapture (PArt 4) The Rapture (Part 4)
Bible Prophecy Blog ^ | 5/15/2012 | Dr. Andy Woods

Posted on 05/15/2012 5:50:55 PM PDT by Former Fetus

My previous articles [1] commenced a series on the rapture of the church. We began with the question, "What is the Rapture?" This question can best be answered by noting ten truths about the rapture from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. In previous articles, we saw that the rapture is an important doctrine and not something that can be marginalized or explained away as a secondary doctrine. We also noted that the rapture is an event that is distinct from the Second Advent of Christ. We further observed that the rapture will involve the catching up of every believer to meet the Lord in the air. We now move to our fourth point.

A Reunion

Fourth, the rapture will be a reunion. The concern of Paul's Thessalonian converts that initiated his discussion on the rapture is recorded in 1 Thessalonians 4:13. This verse says, "But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope." Apparently, upon planting the church in Thessalonica, Paul had taught the new converts about the rapture. However, his sudden departure from Thessalonica (Acts 17:1-9) left him no opportunity to explain the full ramifications and implications of this doctrine. Thus, when some of the Thessalonian Christians began to die, either due to natural causes or persecution, the question that likely remained in the minds of the living Thessalonian believers was whether those who had died before the Lord’s return in the clouds would miss the rapture?

(Excerpt) Read more at bibleprophecyblog.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: rapture; reunion

1 posted on 05/15/2012 5:51:02 PM PDT by Former Fetus
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To: Former Fetus
the dead in Christ will rise first

I think he explains it pretty well. It is pretty well documented in both scripture and actual testimony that after we die in Christ we're immediately in His presence. So the dead in Christ do rise first.

I'm not so sure, however, that the dead in Christ won't have their resurrected bodies. Why wouldn't they? "Those who are alive and remain" will of course experience an instant change into their glorified bodies, but I'm not at all sure those who die in the Lord aren't also in their glorified bodies even now as we speak. Many stories of those who have been to Heaven and back seem to corroborate this. Scripture also points to this:

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:40-44

2 posted on 05/15/2012 6:17:31 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: Former Fetus

From the article:

“Paul obviously believed that the rapture is a foundational doctrine because he mentioned it immediately after discussing other basic doctrines such as the Holy Spirit (1:5) and conversion (1:5, 9). He also mentions the rapture doctrine (4:13-18) just after and before discussing other basic Christian truths such as sanctification (4:3, 5:23) and the dimensions of man’s nature (5:23). Evidently, in Paul’s thinking, the rapture was just as important as these other truths and deserved the same level of treatment and understanding.”

After reading this penetrating paragraph words of response fail me.


3 posted on 05/15/2012 6:20:48 PM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Former Fetus

Just where in the Bible is the word “rapture”????


4 posted on 05/15/2012 6:33:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Former Fetus

When does the “rapture” happen?

Do the two witnesses appear before or after the “rapture”?


5 posted on 05/15/2012 6:36:39 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Salvation

If you read the article you would know the answer to your question.


6 posted on 05/15/2012 6:43:07 PM PDT by BipolarBob ("Oh no, I'm not sick, well I'm not physically sick anyway. Mentally I'm sick beyond any doctor's abi)
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To: Salvation

“Rapture” is from the latin “raptoro”, meaning “captured or taken up”.

It appears in the latin version of the Bible.


7 posted on 05/15/2012 6:44:55 PM PDT by Mrs.Z
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To: Former Fetus
Nothing here.

Acts 17
1 Now when they had passed through Amphip'olis and Apollo'nia, they came to Thessaloni'ca, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.
2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures,
3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ."
4 And some of them were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
5 But the Jews were jealous, and taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the people.
6 And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brethren before the city authorities, crying, "These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also,
7 and Jason has received them; and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus."
8 And the people and the city authorities were disturbed when they heard this.
9 And when they had taken security from Jason and the rest, they let them go.



8 posted on 05/15/2012 7:12:49 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Former Fetus
No word "rapture" here.

1 Thessalonians 4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10 and indeed you do love all the brethren throughout Macedo'nia. But we exhort you, brethren, to do so more and more, 11 to aspire to live quietly, to mind your own affairs, and to work with your hands, as we charged you; 12 so that you may command the respect of outsiders, and be dependent on nobody. 13 But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; Read more: http://www.ewtn.com/ewtn/bible/search_bible.asp#ixzz1uzk0t1TI

9 posted on 05/15/2012 7:15:10 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Former Fetus
Nor is the word "rapture" here.

Case closed.

 
1 Corinthians 15
50
I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Lo! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
53 For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.
54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain. ------------------------------------------------------------------------


 

 

10 posted on 05/15/2012 7:22:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation; All
Hello all. Nobody on this Earth can escape final judgment, nobody. Either is Heaven or Hell after verdict is done by the Most Perfect Judge. I fear to stand in front of my Love and Judge, but it is destined for humans to die one time and face consequences, either people like it or don’t like it, it is a fact. That is the truth! [Romanian native > ESL]
11 posted on 05/15/2012 7:25:29 PM PDT by MCSP2008
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To: Salvation; Former Fetus
Oh you haven’t read the Latin vulgate? Check out the words “caught up”.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I Thessalonicenses 4:17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus Caught up (Greek: harpazo - to seize, carry off by force)

Caught up (Latin: rapiemur - shall be caught up)

English Rapture.

12 posted on 05/15/2012 7:37:45 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

IF IT IS SO IMPORTANT,, then why isn’t the word rapture there?

An analogy, the word “purge” is in the bible from whence comes the word Purgatory. That’s understandable.

I get “caught up” on my homework, or if I am running or driving in a race, I might catch up with the leader.


13 posted on 05/15/2012 7:47:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
>> I get “caught up” on my homework, or if I am running or driving in a race, I might catch up with the leader.<<

That’s beneath you Salvation. You should know very well the Latin means Rapture and it’s in the Catholic Bible. That attempt was weak and surely not up to your standards.

14 posted on 05/15/2012 7:56:46 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; All
Salve. Wrong!!! what brother Saint Paul was writing of time when resurrection will come as Saint John in Apocalyps have written, it means that when trumpets of Angles shall be, then Lord will raise the first to life, they will be in clouds and meet a Lord, there is only one thing here, I hope we are all written in Book of Life, if not, you know consequences of it. [Romanian native > ESL]
15 posted on 05/15/2012 7:59:51 PM PDT by MCSP2008
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To: CynicalBear

I thought it was funny. Guess you didn’t.

What is being said here is that at the final judgment, we will all be called forward. Saints, sinners, sheep and goats. We will be in groups. The Christ will send the groups to the appropriate place, either heaven or hell.

At the Last Judgment there will no longer be a Purgatory.


16 posted on 05/15/2012 8:04:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: CynicalBear

I was given a Catholic Bible when I was a teenager.

The Living Bible-Catholic “version”—paraphrased!

“Paraphrased” makes me wonder.
I know that there are many translations/interpretations throughout the ages; it tends to put me on guard.

I had read the “rapture” theory grew out of the visions an ill woman in Scotland had in the 1890s.

Has anyone else read this?


17 posted on 05/15/2012 8:09:33 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Salvation
>>What is being said here is that at the final judgment, we will all be called forward. Saints, sinners, sheep and goats.<<

Nope. The church is no longer on earth during the Tribulation period. Current believers will be “caught up” then the Tribulation during which new believers will be killed. Only the select Jewish believers will live through the Tribulation to repopulate the world where Christ is King for one thousand years.

>>At the Last Judgment there will no longer be a Purgatory.<<

What Catholics think is purgatory was closed when Christ took those souls to heaven after His death on the cross. No purgatory today.

18 posted on 05/15/2012 8:11:49 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Mortrey
>>I had read the “rapture” theory grew out of the visions an ill woman in Scotland had in the 1890s.<<

Only people who try to deny the truth of scripture put that forth and believe it.

19 posted on 05/15/2012 8:15:52 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Purgatory is still very alive and active. Souls from Purgatory have visited people and told them they will meet those who pray for them at the moment of the praying person’s death.

Where in the Bible does it say that Christ closed Purgatory?

Never heard that before.

Strange and false — someone is giving you erroneous information.


20 posted on 05/15/2012 8:18:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

I’m so glad your post #13 was a joke of some sort. I was going to refer to the concept of a hardened heart in Isaiah 6:9 and many times in the NT about ears able to hear.


21 posted on 05/15/2012 8:48:18 PM PDT by anathemized (cursed by some, blessed in Jesus)
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To: CynicalBear

I merely asked a question-
I resent your response, AND your implication.


22 posted on 05/15/2012 8:56:37 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Mortrey; CynicalBear
Oh you haven't met brother CB. Do not worry it's all greek to him.

He can take a Greek Dictionary then know Greek better than a Greek speaking Orthodox Priest. Yes all from a English to Greek translation dictionary and all the nuances too.

23 posted on 05/15/2012 11:36:04 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: Mortrey
>>I merely asked a question-<<

And I simply replied to your question. You said that you had read something and I simply told you who puts that stuff out.

>>I resent your response, AND your implication.<<

My goodness! I simply tell you that what you read was put out by people who deny what scripture says and you resent that? And you think I’m implying something? What exactly would I have been implying?

24 posted on 05/16/2012 4:50:02 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation
Jesus was sent to release those held captive in Sheol.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me, to preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed; (Luke 4:18)

Paul also talks about those held captive in Sheol.

“Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Now this, “He ascended” – what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.” (Ephesians 4:8-10)

Jesus also told the thief on the cross that he would go with Him into paradise (Sheol).

“And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” (Luke 23:43)

After Jesus death and resurrection believers no longer go to the place called Sheol but go immediately to heaven to be with Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The concept of purgatory indicates a debt that needs to be paid. Christ paid that debt. For someone to assume that guilt is to step away from the grace of God.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

God imputes righteousness without works.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

We obtain that righteousness while here on earth, not after we die.

Jesus was made sin for us.

2 Corinthians 5: 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Why would anyone reject what Jesus did for us and try to do it themselves when we are told that’s impossible? We know that we already have righteousness through faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So it’s impossible to please God without faith, and faith already gives us the righteousness that is required by Him why would anyone reject God’s freely given righteousness to once again return to the law of works which we know doesn’t even please Him?

On the cross Jesus last words were “it is finished”.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

In the Greek, the phrase, “it is finished”, is written as one word – “tetelestai”. In english that means “paid in full”. By claiming that people go to purgatory to either pay for their sins or have someone else pay for them they are calling Jesus a liar.

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ” (Romans 8:1)

Psalm 103:12 as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Even Catholics agree that if we accept Christ we are “in Christ”. If we are then in Christ and are told that there “is no condemnation for those who are in Christ” and our sins are removed “as far as the east is from he west”, what are we judged on? 1 Corinthians 3:15 is talking about the fact that since we are no longer condemned we will not stand before Christ in judgment of sin but rather in judgment of our service to Him for our rewards

If we are justified by faith we will not only escape damnation but in Hebrews we are told that God will not even remember our sins.

Hebrews 10:17 Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

We are also told in Hebrews that once we accept Jesus sacrifice there is no more offering for sin. Not on this earth and not in some place called purgatory.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor. 5:19-21. Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

25 posted on 05/16/2012 4:55:13 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: johngrace
>> He can take a Greek Dictionary then know Greek better than a Greek speaking Orthodox Priest.<<

Now who other than you has ever said that? Certainly I haven’t. I simply take the literal meaning of Greek words as they are defined in Greek lexicons and use that meaning. I’m wondering if you ever use a dictionary. If you do, do you then know English better than someone who has studied it their entire lives or have you simply learned what that particular word means to better understand what was being said?

26 posted on 05/16/2012 5:12:05 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation
What is being said here is that at the final judgment, we will all be called forward. Saints, sinners, sheep and goats. We will be in groups. The Christ will send the groups to the appropriate place, either heaven or hell.

There will be no Christians at the final judgment...If you show up at the final judgment, you will have missed and left out of the wedding of the Bride and Groom...

27 posted on 05/16/2012 5:31:55 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
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To: Salvation
The original greek says "harpazo" (caught up) which was translated into latin as "raptus". Our current English translations come from the Greek, so you won't find the word "rapture" but "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up" (1 Thess 4:17).

You don't need to find the actual word in the Bible to believe some doctrine. Tell me, where do you see the word "Trinity"? Yet we, you as a Catholic and me as a Southern Baptist, believe in it!

28 posted on 05/16/2012 5:40:47 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: CynicalBear

Excellent!


29 posted on 05/16/2012 5:48:52 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Salvation

Where is the word “trinity”?


30 posted on 05/16/2012 5:57:15 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Salvation
"Just where in the Bible is the word “rapture”????"

You didnt see it? It is there...right next to "Trinity".

31 posted on 05/16/2012 7:18:19 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: CynicalBear
Hey what!

"I simply take the literal meaning of Greek words as they are defined in Greek lexicons and use that meaning"

Simply. Yes too much . Your problem is not seeing there is more to it. Simply indeed.

Using a regular english dictionary when we all speak English is one thing.

But using a translation dictionary for another language then calling the one who knows the other language a dolt is very wrong. Especially when you do not know the language at all.

Would we be that bold if we were in front of a foreign speaking judge and then tell him off by a translation dictionary to tell him he is wrong when he could throw you in Jail. I do not think you would be so bold .

32 posted on 05/16/2012 10:34:29 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: johngrace
>>But using a translation dictionary for another language then calling the one who knows the other language a dolt is very wrong.<<

I have called no one a dolt. When one takes the main meaning and translation of a word and it agrees with all other uses of that word and is backed up by other scholars and is supported by other passages in scripture it becomes clear what the intent of the word usage was.

>>Would we be that bold if we were in front of a foreign speaking judge and then tell him off by a translation dictionary to tell him he is wrong when he could throw you in Jail.<<

If the evidence backed up the translation dictionary and all usages of the word agreed with my understanding you can bet I would defend my case and understanding.

I find it astounding that you have offered no proof of my not using any word correctly. Rather you try to spin around the edges but never show where the intended meaning of the word is something different.

33 posted on 05/16/2012 2:35:19 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Salvation
Just where in the Bible is the word “rapture” Purgatory????

There. Fixed it.
34 posted on 05/16/2012 3:23:54 PM PDT by crosshairs
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To: CynicalBear

Really? let me see if I can find that reply? Amazing!


35 posted on 05/16/2012 4:15:02 PM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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