The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants

NCR ^ | Apr. 18, 2011 | Thomas Reese

[SirKit]

Lord Jesus,

You said, “I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Touch the hearts of all Christians—and everyone that the Father draws unto Himself—that we may always and everywhere love one another. And in love, humbly seek to fulfill Your prayer to the Father, “That they all may be one.”

Amen.

[HarleyD]

God the Holy Spirit put on my heart, do not return.

How do you KNOW God the Holy Spirit put in on your heart not to return? Isn't this an interpretation?

The problem is you have no authority to interpret Scripture.

I see this statement a lot from Catholics. No where in scripture are we told that we are to "interpret". The scriptures tells us that ALL scripture is inspired by God for correction, teaching, and reproof so that we might be equip. It also tells us very plainly that we are not to look to anything other than scripture. And this was confirmed by the early church fathers when they deliberately set apart scripture from all other Church teaching as special or inspired.

You will certainly not find anything about venerating before images or the perfection of Mary in scripture. In fact just the opposite. It's very clear.

Read a Catholic Bible...it will be help

I have. You will find the Catholic Bible to be a poor interpretation of the original language. Beside, the early fathers tossed out the Apocrypha as not to the level of inspiration as the rest of the scriptures.

[lupie]

Amen!

[metmom]

There’s no integrity in misquoting someone by adding words to what they say and presenting it as their own words.

But I don’t expect any less from Catholics.

[metmom]

Well, I’m sorry that they’re bitter over it, but as Christians, there is the need to deal with that. Holding on to bitterness is not an option for a believer. It’ll eat them alive.

We need to remember that our battle is not against flesh and blood.

[metmom]

So how do YOU get around the Scriptural prohibition against eating blood?

God has been very clear about it, even to the point of reiterating it in Acts 15 at the council of Jerusalem.

[metmom]

Could you perhaps give us the reason why it’s so important to believe that it becomes the literal flesh and blood of Jesus?

[SkyPilot]

Amen to boatbums and metmom's comments.

For my own part, I'll share that is was a very strange and wonderful thing to realize (really realize) that Christ had entered into my life and literally saved me from Hell itself.

I had done everything the Catholic church had asked me to do. I had been Confirmed. I had gone to CCD classes for years. I was an altar boy. I prayed the rosary. I had gone on retreats. I had stacks of prayer cards. I wore Catholic medals of saints around my neck. I lit candles. I went to Confession. I went to Mass 2-3 times per week. Among my family, I was considered the "most Catholic" among them.

I will say this in all honesty, shame, and nakedness: I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, that I was going to Hell. I only came to this firm realization after 2 months of closely examining and studying scripture. The ugly truth was as plain to me as the black and white print at which I was starring.

Let me tell you, THAT terrifying truth was hard to bear. I knew I had not accepted Christ. My Catholic faith had no answers. I went to a priest, and asked him, straight out, if there was some way I could be sure I was not going to Hell. I was fearful....I didn't want to go to Hell, but I knew I was definitely going there! I wanted to know who I could enter into heaven and be with God forever.

His answer left me crestfallen:

"Errr....well.....that's a Great Mystery."

I asked another priest, who gave me almost exactly the same answer. I asked more Catholics and more priests. I got collections of everything from "good works" to "sacraments" to "be a good person" to "go to Mass every day for a year" to New Age philosophy.

One day at work I heard a man and a women who I both admired very much discussing scripture. The were talking about this verse:

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." 1 John 5:13

They were both happy. Joyful. Relieved. At peace. And they spoke about what it felt like to know you were saved. Saved from what? I knew. Saved from damnation in Hell. Because, I knew that was where I was going.

It took many more weeks of reading, listening to sermons on the radio, and talking to Christians before I finally relinquished and surrendered to Christ.

Now, let me tell you, DESPITE knowing I was Hell-bound I was STILL reluctant because I a part of myself wanted to somehow hold onto my own destiny, my own pride, my own lusts, my own desired, my own sins.

I didn't want to change. I didn't want to transform. I was a coward. But, Christ would not let go of His pursuit of me.

When I finally knew that I was saved, it was the most profound thing I have ever experienced. I cannot express to you the joy and relief. I LOVED this guy (Christ!). I loved Him. I read the Gospels and re-read them. I watched a movie about Him over and over again. I loved my fellow Christians. Looking back, I could not believe how stupid and foolish I had been.

I had wanted to earn my way into Heaven and out of Hell. When someone first told me about the concept of Grace, I about fell out of my chair.

Praise be to Him.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

“Could you perhaps give us the reason why it’s so important to believe that it becomes the literal flesh and blood of Jesus?”

Please do not put words in my mouth (or fingers). I did not say it’s important to believe that it becomes...what I said is what Jesus said...’This is...’. The operative word is ‘is’. It is neither transsubstantation nor transliteration. It is...’is’...because Jesus said ‘this is...’

It is important that we take what the Word says and accept it without trying to twist it with theological doctrines to suit whatever point our particular man-made religiousity deeps the point we want to make.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

“So how do YOU get around the Scriptural prohibition against eating blood?”

Oh, please ‘Mom’, get a life...Feed on Him...Let Him be in you...sometimes it is necessary to ‘Let go and let God’...this is one of those times for you. You seem to be so steeped in your own transliterated theology that you have lost sight of who God is...and why you and I and the rest of us are here.

I believe we were created to give God companionship...koinania...

God walked with Adam in the Garden...
Enoch walked with God...
Noah walked with God...
God wants us to walk with him. Adam never understood that. Enoch and Noah did understand that. God wants us to understand that. And when we are seen walking with God, we never have to use words to share Jesus...our life here, walking with Him, does that.

We begin to get there when we Feed on Him, as He requested we do...it includes partaking of His Body and of His Blood.

Blessings to you on this, the Lord’s Day...

[Al Hitan]

There’s no integrity in misquoting someone by adding words to what they say and presenting it as their own words.

It's interesting that you are talking about integrity when I've seldom, if ever, seen you correctly present Catholic doctrine. But I don't expect any less from hypocrites.

But I don’t expect any less from Catholics.

As said by failed, bitter Catholics.

[metmom]

The disciples broke bread.

If we are to eat the literal flesh and blood of Jesus, it’d better not look or taste like bread and wine unless you hold to it changing at some point later, like after you’re swallowed it.

Otherwise, could you tell us just where you get the literal flesh and blood of Jesus to eat and drink?

[metmom]

Projecting much?

I'm not bitter. Lots of churches lie to people about hos to be saved. No one is responsible for my relationship with Christ but me. I could have accepted Christ at any time during the years of being Catholic but I didn't.

And as far as being a failed Catholic, what's the big deal when Catholicism can't guarantee the salvation that they claim only comes through them if you jump through the right hoops.

I'm saved now and I know if and if that's being *a failed Catholic* so be it. I'll wear that as a badge of honor.

I may have failed as a Catholic in the opinion of any Catholic I meet but I am not failed as far as God is concerned.

Galatians 2: 20-21 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

[Al Hitan]

Projecting much?

No, not really. But thanks for asking.

I'm not bitter.

So you say. You should read some of your posts about Catholicism.

No one is responsible for my relationship with Christ but me. I could have accepted Christ at any time during the years of being Catholic but I didn't.

For most people who claim to be Christian, God has something to do with the relationship. It would be interesting to see you explain your premise to a Calvinist.

And as far as being a failed Catholic, what's the big deal when Catholicism can't guarantee the salvation that they claim only comes through them if you jump through the right hoops.

This post is a fine exhibit of ignorance regarding what the Church actually believes and teaches.

I'm saved now and I know if

You're still here aren't you?

Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

but I am not failed as far as God is concerned.

I'm always concerned for people who think they speak for God.

[Natural Law]

"It is...IT IS...it does not become, nor does it represent...it is My Body...it is My Blood..."

The Eucharist begins as the work of human hands the substance of bread and wine do indeed become the Body and Blood of Christ at the Epiclesis, or the moment of transubstantiation, in the Anaphora, or Eucharistic invocation.

Peace be with you.

[Natural Law]

"If we are to eat the literal flesh and blood of Jesus, it’d better not look or taste like bread and wine unless you hold to it changing at some point later, like after you’re swallowed it."

Before you make your conclusions I would encourage you to gain an understanding of the philosophical concept of "substance" in which in any objecthood substance is distinct and different from it properties. Please don't continue to shortchange yourself. In your critique of the Eucharist you continue to focus on the properties of the bread and wine and ignore the substance which is the Real Presence of Jesus.

Peace be with you.

[GGpaX4DumpedTea]

“Otherwise, could you tell us just where you get the literal flesh and blood of Jesus to eat and drink?”

I did that, several times. Read the Word.

[SuziQ]

Amen, and Amen!!

[SuziQ]

When someone first told me about the concept of Grace, I about fell out of my chair.

I learned about Grace from studying the Baltimore Catechism, back in the early 60s.

[SkyPilot]

The concept of "Grace" taught by the Roman Catholic church in Catechism is 180 degrees out of phase in what a Bible believing Christian bases their entire salvation.

___________________________________

Right at the centre of the division which occurred between Catholicism and the first Protestant reformers right back in the sixteenth century was the question concerning the nature and means of Justification.......So the Reformers of the sixteenth century defined justification as the act of reconciliation flowing from the grace of God through the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the sinner, and received by faith - irrespective of any progress in sanctification at that point. Catholicism. however, regards justification as equivalent to the whole process of salvation, not just it's inception, as flowing from the grace of God and as taking effect through the infusion of the very righteousness of God into the human soul. One could summarize this by saying that the Protestant view was - and is - that justification equals justification by faith, while the Roman Catholic position is that justification equals justification by faith, and works, including due acceptance and appropriation of the role of the sacraments.

These are entirely two different view of Grace (Catholic vs. Protestant).

Catholic "Grace" is not the the same concept at all of Grace that a Bible believing Christian knows has saved them from Hell.

From the link:

" . Once the repentant believer comes under divine grace, he or she will not fall away and be lost, there is no concept of law still standing over the believer, who is now declared righteous in the very court of Heaven. (John 10:27-29; Romans 8: the entire chapter; Ephesians 1:11-14; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; 2 Corinthians 5:5). Even such recipients of God's grace as David and Samson were never rejected despite their considerable failings. 2. The grace of God covers all sins as long as one lives in a continual attitude of humility and repentance. (1 John 1:6-10; 2:1-2; Romans 8:1; 2 Corinthians 5:18-21). If one is arrogant and refuses to acknowledge, or repent of sins, this would simply confirm that such a person was never under God's grace. We may also see, then, that the Catholic has a much 'lower' view of grace than the Protestant, and a far higher view of what men and women can accomplish under their own steam! Catholicism also teaches a very high view of their own church laws and requirements, this is because they passionately believe that the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven were given to them alone (Matthew 16:19). From this authority they believe that their own traditions stand equal in importance to Scripture. But in contrast to Catholicism's numerous requirements, Paul writes, 23. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26. You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27. for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.(Galatians 3:23-29).

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God."

Ephesians 2:8