Amillennialism 101 -- Jesus Christ: The True Israel

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[Cronos]

As an outsider looking in -- question: why do guys on both sides of the divide persist in using the terms "dispensationalist" or "replacementarian"? From what I've read, if one takes the strict definition of the terms, hardly anyone fits them exactly.

Instead of a serious debate, this can be reduced to poster's hurling "d.." or "rep..." a

[Cronos]

be aware Lexi that some posters who think they were hot stuff have created their own individual religion of one, with two gospels, beliefs that God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are just modes of each other etc.

[mitch5501]

"What a waste of time"

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord.......for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy" (2 Timothy 1:7-8,Rev 19:10)

This is the work of God,that ye believe on Him whom He has sent. Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts (John 6:29,John 13:19,2 Peter 1:10,2 Peter 1:19)

[Cronos]

read post 28 - 12 gospels in the NT...

[Cronos]

Lady -- you quote Matt 15:24 but completely ignore the context -- why did Jesus say it? A Canaanite women came to Him and He tells her this, but then Jesus says in 28: Then Jesus answering, said to her: O woman, great is thy faith: be it done to thee as thou wilt: and her daughter was cured from that hour. and your post ignores John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

I'm sorry, but this incomplete reading of the Bible is utterly wrong philosophy, just as wrong as making a masonic ideal of Christianity by saying in post 22 "there are 3-5 hundred thousand Believers all over the world who understand the Gospel Jesus preached"

[ladyL]

I am sorry you have classified me as a false prophet for teaching the Gospel Jesus preached. The gospel traditional Christianity has preached is only partial, the death, burial and resurrection. The full gospel incorporates the teaching on the Kingdom of God. That is the gospel Jesus preached and that is the Gospel I teach. Please be careful in so quickly calling heresy as you are coming against the teachings of Jesus.
Oh, P.S. as far as heresy, I don't celebrate the pagan holidays of Christianity or the pagan Sun day as the sabbath. I do Bible things in Bible ways. I find those practicing paganism find it difficult to understand Jesus Gospel.

[ladyL]

>Cant seem to find nivrauchu in my bible...Perhaps you could point it out...<

Restoration Scriptures...page 11 or http://yourarmstoisrael.org/The_Truth/THE_TRUTH_ABOUT_ALL_ISRAEL by Rabbi Moshe Koniuchowsky

[ladyL]

“The LORD said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: “Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot. And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense,” says the LORD.” (Jeremiah 3:6–10, NKJV)

[Lee N. Field]

As an outsider looking in -- question: why do guys on both sides of the divide persist in using the terms "dispensationalist" or "replacementarian"? From what I've read, if one takes the strict definition of the terms, hardly anyone fits them exactly.

"Dispensational" is their own term for themselves. It goes back quite a ways, at least to Clarance Larkin and the Scofield Reference Bible. Google it, go to Wikipedia.

"Replacement Theology" is their pejorative term for those that don't hold to the dispensationaists own unique views of the church and it's relation to Israel. The term has no meaning, outside their circles, and no one outside their circles talks that way.

"Replacementarian" is term coined by a Freerepublic dispensationalist*. Same old hooey, different day.

Instead of a serious debate, this can be reduced to poster's hurling "d.." or "rep..." a

Not a lot of headway seems to be made.

*whom I will not ping. No good is likely to come of it.

[fishtank]

What church do you belong to?

Just curious.

[Cronos]

ok, thanks. I’m staying out of this, but I hope that we freepers can debate on this instead of fight.

[ladyL]

We have a home fellowship but are associated with the Messianic Israelite Alliance. The MIA is the umbrella association for thousands of Believers who understand the two Houses of Israel that were divided into the House of Judah and the House of Israel (1 Kings 11,12). Most prophetic scripture yet to be fulfilled is about the reuniting of both houses back to the Kingdom of Israel with Jesus, the son of God and fully God, reigning as Messiah over this Kingdom during he millennium.

[fishtank]

“Dispensational” refers to the Bible term/word “oikonomos”-economy (literally). It’s a VERY Biblical word.

The fulcrum of dispensationalism is the distinction between Israel and the Church.

Israel = the unfaithful, whoring, divorced wife of God the Father. She will be restored to full status in the future.

The church = the unmarried, betrothed, Bride of Christ. The marriage has yet to take place.

[fishtank]

I hope your beliefs don’t extend into British Israelism.

Just a thought.

[Iscool]

read post 28 - 12 gospels in the NT...

How many does your religion tell you to claim there are and what is IT???

[Iscool]

d

We have a home fellowship but are associated with the Messianic Israelite Alliance. The MIA is the umbrella association for thousands of Believers who understand the two Houses of Israel that were divided into the House of Judah and the House of Israel (1 Kings 11,12). Most prophetic scripture yet to be fulfilled is about the reuniting of both houses back to the Kingdom of Israel with Jesus, the son of God and fully God, reigning as Messiah over this Kingdom during he millennium.

So you believe in the restoration of Israel to God's Kingdom, but then the church replaced Israel as the church???

[HarleyD]

Just a slight correction:

Replacement Theology as its opponents would describe it is that the future benefits for Israel have now been given to The Church. The proponents of Replacement Theology would say that this the Church has been continuous throughout history with the Jews first and then the Gentiles included later. This has been the traditional view of The Church from the start.

There is no such thing as "Replacement Theology" in the minds of the proponents. We didn't replace anything. We have been "grafted in" to use Paul's phrase.

[HarleyD]

I might have this backward depending on how you read "opponent" or "proponent". For clarification:

"Replacement Theology" is used by dispensationalist to describe the beliefs of others that future benefits for Israel have now been given to The Church.

Others do not believe the Church has "replace" Israel. Rather the Church has been continuous throughout history with the believing Jews first and then the Gentiles grafted in later. This is the view that was held by the Church for over 1900 years.

I look at the term "Replacement Theology" as an attempt to obfuscate the issue.

[ladyL]

When Yahweh promised Abraham 4X that his seed (sperm) would be as many as the stars and sand, He was showing Abraham the vast multitude of descendants that would come from Isaac the child of promise. Isaac was given the promise and Jacob was given the same promise. The Promise is referred to in the N.T. It is pivotal to Biblical understanding.
Gen. 12:3 which Gal.3:8 says is the Gospel points to Abrahams seed being MIXED INTO ALL NATIONS! red and yellow, black and white... The ten northern tribes (House of Israel) have been scattered into ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD. Jesus, through his death, burial and resurrection made it possible for all of Abraham's descendants of the Promise, to come back from their Gentile identity and return to their Israelite status. Go to you tube Jim Staley, Identity Crisis. You won't come away unchanged.

[ladyL]

Gal 3:29 says all who are in Christ Jesus are Abraham's seed (sperm). We are the PROMISED descendants today. Proof Yahweh didn't lie 7x when He gave His Promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Those same descendants that stood at the base of Mt. Sinai and received the Ten Commandments as their marriage contract,then through history were scattered and became Gentiles (per Hosea), were made a way, through Jesus death and resurrection, to come back into Israel. Even Paul tells us we are citizens o Israel. So Yes, the Believers in the church are Israel. Now is the time our identity is being restored. Long story but well worth researching.