Skip to comments.Mormonism in Its Expanding Global Context: Invitations to New Interpretation and Understanding
Posted on 06/08/2012 7:21:21 PM PDT by Colofornian
...June 29, 2012
Session #1A Mormonism and the Media
Thomas G. Evans Journal of Religion, Identity and Policy:
Cross-Cultural Case Studies: The Mormon Jesus in Mexico and in Cyberspace
Session #2A Reconsidering Joseph Smiths Marital Practices
Lawrence Foster Georgia Institute of Technology:
Why Polyandry Isnt the Right Term to Describe Joseph Smiths Marriages to Women Who Remained Legally Married to Other Men: Reflections on a Difficult and Challenging Issue
Brian C. Hales Layton, Utah:
Joseph Smiths Sexual Polyandry and the Emperors New Clothes: On Closer Inspection, What do We Find?
Commentator: D. Michael Quinn
Session #4B Early Mormon Marital Practices
Stephen J. Fleming University of California, Santa Barbara:
A New Look at Joseph Smiths Marital Practices
George D. Smith Publisher Signature Books:
Another Nauvoo Wife of Brigham Young
Susan W. Howard San Jose, California:
William Jarman: Apostate Polygamist and Founder of the British Anti-Mormon Society
Brooke Kathleen Brassard University of Victoria:
Playing Lawyer with the Case of Plural Marriage in Canada: Rethinking Past Papers and Arguments in Favour of Decriminalization
Session #5D In Old Nauvoo
Joann Follett Mortensen:
King Follet: His Death, Funeral, and Burial
Session #5F From Mountain Meadows to Modern Sympathies
Lawrence G. Coates BYU-Idaho:
Healing Bitterness: The Mountain Meadows Massacre
Murdering History: Literature and the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Cristine Hutchison-Jones Harvard University:
Viewing Mormons from the Inside Out: Popular American Writers from the Intermountain West, 1930-1960"
Session #6A The Prophets and Polygamy
Newell...Bringhurst Visalia, California:
Where Have all of Brigham Youngs Wives Gone?
Jeffery O. Johnson Salt Lake City, Utah:
Children of the Harem: A Look at the Children of Brigham Young
Session #6E Changing Identities
W. Paul Reeve University of Utah:
Race, Marriage, and Negro Blood in My Veins: Scipio A.Kenner and the Mormon Struggle for Whiteness...
(Excerpt) Read more at mormonhistoryassociation.org ...
IN fact, a Saturday section is entitled -- "Changing Identities" -- showing that even Mormon historians acknowledge the "social evolution" of Mormonism.
One early-scheduled session -- Cross-Cultural Case Studies: The Mormon Jesus in Mexico and in Cyberspace -- shows that it's not only by-the-wayside "history" that they will focus in on...
Not counting its plenary and luncheon sessions, I counted 105 sessions offered on June 29 and June 30. Of these, a full dozen reference "polygamy" in the titles.
That's over 10% of its topical focus on polygamy! (And Mormons want others to leave polygamy alone?)
Notice this section to be offered: Session #2A Reconsidering Joseph Smiths Marital Practices -- where one session is Why Polyandry Isnt the Right Term to Describe Joseph Smiths Marriages to Women Who Remained Legally Married to Other Men: Reflections on a Difficult and Challenging Issue and another: Joseph Smiths Sexual Polyandry and the Emperors New Clothes: On Closer Inspection, What do We Find?
Yes...that's right...young Mormons...Joseph Smith married ELEVEN women already married to other men (& who remain married to them while). Tell us, young Mormons: How does that sit with you?
For more info on this, see: Joseph Smith Marries the Wives of Other Men
Here's one of Jarman's pubs:
Hell Upon Earth!: Or Mormon Life Exposed
Apparently with a Mormon president used as a marketing tool for his fine example, the planning office wants to clean up the Mormon history and polish up its tarnished image from its “past” practices. A little definition scrubbing will be used to bring all things barbaric into the 21st Century.
Anybody wanna guess what the "Mormon struggle for whiteness" will entail content-wise?
(I guess Lds historians are still finding additional wives that those "loving" Mormon leaders hid under the rocks in the earliest days of Mormon polygamy.)
Polygamy is central to the Mormon experienice, but it is not shared with the non-Mormon majority. Only one wife is seen by the non-Mormon public and all of younger sister wives are passed off as cousins or children of friends. Girls barely in their teens are forced into “marriages” to middle-aged and even elderly men.
Polygamy is rape. Polygamy is evil.
Allow me to define the "Mormon jesus" vs. the Biblical Jesus:
Q1 Isn't the first distinct focus on the Mormon "Jesus" was that he was some unembodied vague "intelligence" even before the Mormon claim that Jesus, like Superman, had parents from another planet?
A Yes. Lds "scriptures" Doctrine & Covenants 93:29,33 assign ALL of us eternal status as past-tense intelligences. (So we're ALL supposedly as "eternal" as Jesus is)
Q2 Well about what about once the Mormon "Jesus" got to the spirit baby stage? Comparing so-called "spirit babies" born to a mom goddess in heaven, what difference was there between the "Jesus spirit baby" and the supposed rest of us "spirit babies" born to such a mom goddess?
A Mere spiritual birth order--The Mormon Jesus supposedly having been birth first in some "pre-existent world"
Q3 What about the Earthly Origins of the Mormon Christ?
A * Place of birth: Jerusalem (vs. Bible pinpointing it as Bethlehem).
* The Mormon Jesus was twice made a son of God via Mary 'cause Lds say Heavenly Father was the literal paternal father of the conceived Jesus;
* The Mormon Jesus only became God's "only begotten Son" upon conception within Mary. Not so: Jesus, as the Son of God from eternity (John 17:5) -- having shared God's glory before the world was -- is God's one and only Son (John 3:18)...the rest of us are mere "adopted" sons -- if we are indeed His.
Q4 Is the Mormon "Jesus" an exalted spirit baby-become-god?
A As noted above, the lds jesus is not the Son of God from eternity past. That "jesus" worked his way up to godhood status. He's not an exalted God-become-man, but an exalted man-become-God. He was an elder spirit bro of Lucifer. Had you or your brother been "first" in that pre-existent spirit world birth order, he could have been Christ!!!
This "jesus" is foreign to the Bible. The Messiah of the Bible shared the glory with the Father in the beginning (John 17:5). This Jesus is THE Son of God, not just a son of God. And THE Son of God did not consider equality with His Father something he couldn't let go of while becoming a man (see Philippians 2). Phil. 2 makes it clear He was already divine, not just a "wannabe" God like Dear Ole Dad.
Q5 Is the True Jesus Christ a 'Saved Being'?
A In contrast to the Mormon christ -- who is but a "saved being"--a mere creature like dear ole Dad, the true Jesus Christ is eternal!
The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being (lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)
Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being... (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)
Please also see...
* McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation)
* McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72
I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42).
Q6 Is the Mormon christ just one savior among many?
Yes. Admittedly this is currently publicly downplayed -- but to Lds directly -- baptism of/for the dead has been played up by Lds "prophets" from Joseph Smith to Joseph Fielding Smith to others as THE most important individual responsibility there is -- wrapping that responsibility up in their own works-driven salvation:
Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith: But greater than all this, so far as our individual responsibilities are concerned, the greatest is to become SAVIORS, in our lesser degree which is assigned us, for the dead who have died without a knowledge of the Gospel. Joseph Smith said, The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us, is to seek after our dead It will suffice here to say that the Lord has placed upon us this responsibility of seeing that our dead receive the blessings of the Gospel. Said Joseph Smith: Those saints who neglect it, in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation. (The Way to Perfection, pp. 153-154)
Lds "prophet" John Taylor: ...we are the only people that know how to SAVE our progenitors, how to SAVE OURSELVES, and how to SAVE our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
Joseph Fielding Smith again: "... mortals have to BE SAVIORS on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
Taylor again: "We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to BE SAVIORS FOR THEM by being baptized for them in the flesh,, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
No, "saviors of the world" are NOT plentiful per the Bible (see 1 John 4:14; John 4:42).
Q7 How were our sins atoned for? By sweating blood in the Garden of Gethsemane?
A Lds leaders have constantly de-emphasized the cross of Christ by pointing to the garden, where Jesus sweat blood, as the place of atonement.
Q8 Did the Mormon "jesus" really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature?
A No, if you take merely the Mormon Articles of Faith -- Article #2.
Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church:
From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...
Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."]
The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."
Also, the Mormon leaders accuse Jesus of having rather anemic blood:
"Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135)
"Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93).
So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism.
Q9 Was the Mormon Jesus a creature before He was a 'Creator'?
A Yes. The Bible assigns Jesus as being the Creator of All Things & All Beings -- whereas the Mormon "Jesus" is Simply a spirit Creature offspring of Kolobian parents.
Compare that to the Jesus of the Bible Who created ALL things--including all angels...including even Lucifer (see Heb 1; John 1; Col. 1:16; see even D&C 93:9-10).
Q10 Why do Mormons downplay the uniqueness of Jesus?
A Because of their unique doctrine that
(a) we were all eternal;
(b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus;
(c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation";
(d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people;
(e) all temple Mormons become gods.
(f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship.
The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!)
Q11 Do Mormons worship Jesus?
A It depends upon which Mormon and which Mormon leaders you talk to. Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie advised Lds STRONGLY in 1982 to not worship Jesus.
McConkie must have seized upon the Mormon "scripture" of D&C 20:17-19 as the key verse that would guide his pattern of worship once & for all: and that he should be the ONLY BEING whom they should worship ... as he quoted it to BYU students. (See Our relationship with the Lord)
Christians worship this Messiah, just like God told the angels to do in Hebrews 1:6. And I challenge grassroots Mormons to defy their leaders -- like Lds "apostle" McConkie when they tell them NOT to directly worship Jesus (see Mormon 7:7; 2 Nephi 25:29; 4 Nephi 4:37; 3 Nephi 11:17; 3 Nephi 17:10).
I DIRECTLY pray to this Jesus as Stephen did in Acts (7:59) -- and even as the supposed Book of Mormon disciple characters DIRECTLY and repeatedly did to Jesus in 3 Nephi 19: 6-26...again -- a Mormon "scripture" de-emphasized & ignored by Mormon leaders).
Q12 If Mormons do worship Jesus -- and if they deem Jesus a "separate" god than Heavenly Father, doesn't that mean they worship more than one god?
To show you the extent of confusion this has caused even among Mormon leaders, look at "apostle" McConkie's book, Mormon Doctrine:
"Three separate personages--the Father, Son and Holy Ghost--comprise the Godhead...To us, speaking in the proper finite sense, these three are the only gods we worship." (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 567-577, 1966 edition)
Q13 Wait a minute. Didn't you just get done telling us that McConkie advised BYU students NOT to worship Jesus in 1982?
A Indeed, he did, after saying the above in 1966! But McConkie was so confused, he would say "3" then "2" in the same book...and then eventually settled on "1" by 1982!
McConkie, on p. 848 of Mormon Doctrine, emphasized worshiping two gods: "The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship....No one can worship the Father without also worshiping the Son....It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 848).
Q14 Doesn't the Book of Mormon contradict even the two-god worship theory of McConkie's?
A Yes. Mormon 7:7 reads: 7And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the bworld, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to ddwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.
So you can see how confusing this gets...trinitarian theology is found frequently in the Book of Mormon...including worshiping the Holy Spirit!
Q15 Doesn't it all boil down to how many gods you worship?
Thomas calls Jesus his God in John 20:28; even the Joseph Smith's concocted "Nephite disciples" called Jesus their Lord and God (3 Nephi 19:18).
And look @ what other Mormon "scriptures" say:
* The D&C says Jesus is God (19:4; 62:1; etc.) Since theres only one true God in the bible and in the LDS scriptures [for example, the Mormon "scripture" from the Pearl of Great Price says "no God besides me" (1:6)]
* All this means is that either Jesus is a false god or is the one true God. As Jesus Christ is a God to Thomas (John 20:28) -- so Thomas has two gods?
This BYU rep (Lawrence G. Coates BYU-Idaho) will cover: Healing Bitterness: The Mountain Meadows Massacre -- showing that Mormons still recognize they've done very little to alleviate the bitterness over these past 150 some years... (Mina Estevez is also speaking on: Murdering History: Literature and the Mountain Meadows Massacre
Do we all remember the images of some Muslims 'round the world dancing over 9/11 in 2001?
These were Muslims not only excusing the behavior of the terrorists, but were celebrating it.
That's essentially -- at least in part -- what we had Mormon leaders doing...
Re: the first Memorial placed @ the massacre site: "The original Rock Cairn and Cross were desecrated by Brigham Young on May 25, 1861 as recorded in church historian and forth President of the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, Wilford Woodruffs diary. The Tyrannical Prophet Brigham Young stated at the time of the desecration; 'Vengeance is mine and I have had a little.' The Rock Cairn was leveled to the ground."
Source: BRIGHAM YOUNG DESECRATED THE CHRISTIAN CROSS AND ROCK CAIRN
In 1858, Young was given a pardon for his part in the MMM atrocities.
Young and other Mormon leaders have all excused the Mormon mass-murderers -- at least 42 known Mormons by never bringing them to justice...or even ex-communicating them (two were; but were reinstated later -- one while still adlive; the other after his death)...
The mass-murderers included an Lds bishop, an Lds "to be" bishop, two stake presidents, a counselor to a stake president...
(So much for people -- like Mitt Romney -- claiming there's "murderers" in every church...such "murderers" in other churches aren't readily elevated to--or retained as -- church leadership...like what happened with these mass murderers)
One of the Mormon stake presidents had been in that role about a year when the massacre occurred...as a "reward" for his part in the slaughter, Lds "prophets" Brigham Young and John Taylor left him in that role. He (William Dame) wound up serving 24 years as an Lds stake president (1856-1880).
(Oh...and for those who highlight Muslim terrorism to the exclusion of Mormon terrorism, did God frown on Mormon terrorists less because they were Mormon?)
Also, dozens of other Mormons were involved in the MMM (and who are also named even by Lds sources) -- these are ones who had probable "lesser" accomplice/perp roles.
The Mormons kidnapped about 17 children and held them hostage for about two years until the Army had to come and rescue them...Notice, no effort was made by these Mormons or Mormon leaders to return the children over all that time...nor were these Mormons arrested for kidnapping.
The Mormons took the prize horses and everything...the clothes were stripped off the corpses and were worn by the Mormons. Open theft where even the corpses were stripped.
Party ownership of the print media
made it easy to manipulate public opinion,
and the film and radio carried the process further.
The Ministry of Truth, Winston's place of work, contained, it was said, three thousand rooms above ground level, and corresponding ramifications below.
The Ministry of Truth concerned itself with Lies. Party ownership of the print media made it easy to manipulate public opinion, and the film and radio carried the process further.
The primary job of the Ministry of Truth was to supply the citizens of Oceania with newspapers, films, textbooks, telescreen programmes, plays, novels - with every conceivable kind of information, instruction, or entertainment, from a statue to a slogan, from a lyric poem to a biological treatise, and from a child's spelling-book to a Newspeak dictionary.
Winston worked in the RECORDS DEPARTMENT (a single branch of the Ministry of Truth) editing and writing for The Times. He dictated into a machine called a speakwrite. Winston would receive articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to alter, or, in Newspeak, rectify. If, for example, the Ministry of Plenty forecast a surplus, and in reality the result was grossly less, Winston's job was to change previous versions so the old version would agree with the new one. This process of continuous alteration was applied not only to newspapers, but to books, periodicals, pamphlets, posters, leaflets, films, sound-tracks, cartoons, photographs - to every kind of literature or documentation which might conceivably hold any political or ideological significance.
When his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. He dialed 'back numbers' on the telescreen and called for the appropriate issues of The Times, which slid out of the pneumatic tube after only a few minutes' delay. The messages he had received referred to articles or news-items which for one reason or another it was thought necessary to rectify.
In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages; to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and on the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed memory holes. When one knew that any document was due for destruction, or even when one saw a scrap of waste paper lying about, it was an automatic action to lift the flap of the nearest memory hole and drop it in, whereupon it would be whirled away on a current of warm air to the enormous furnaces which were hidden somewhere in the recesses of the building.
As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.
What happened in the unseen labyrinth to which the tubes led, he did not know in detail, but he did know in general terms. As soon as all the corrections which happened to be necessary in any particular number of The Times had been assembled and collated, that number would be reprinted, the original copy destroyed, and the corrected copy placed on the files in its stead.
In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs.
There were huge printing-shops and their sub editors, their typography experts, and their elaborately equipped studios for the faking of photographs. There was the tele-programmes section with its engineers, its producers and its teams of actors specially chosen for their skill in imitating voices; clerks whose job was simply to draw up lists of books and periodicals which were due for recall; vast repositories where the corrected documents were stored; and the hidden furnaces where the original copies were destroyed.
And somewhere or other, quite anonymous, there were the directing brains who co-ordinated the whole effort and laid down the lines of policy which made it necessary that this fragment of the past should be preserved, that one falsified, and the other rubbed out of existence.
"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.
I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.
I believe he is leading the people astray, downward to destruction.
But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.
I have my reasons for it.
"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.
See, now, what I have come to this day!
"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enunciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)
Yes...that’s right...young Mormons...Joseph Smith married ELEVEN women already married to other men (& who remain married to them while). Tell us, young Mormons: How does that sit with you?
The young Mormon missionaries I talked to a couple of months ago denied that Joey Smith had ever had sex with any extra woman...
Their mantra was “He only ever had Emma”
Ah, for them, Eliza Snow, hymn author of "mom-god" Mormon hymn...has the perfect quote for them to realize:
President Angus Cannon also told Joseph Smith's son: 'Brother Heber C. Kimball, I am informed, asked [Eliza R. Snow] the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith and afterwards to Brigham Young, when she replied in a private gathering, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."' (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.)
Secondary source: Mormon Polygamy - Polyandry
The young Mormon missionaries I talked to a couple of months ago denied that Joey Smith had ever had sex with any extra woman ... Their mantra was He only ever had Emma
Show them This Book by LDS historian Todd Compton. Ask why Compton is still a member in good standing if he was lying in his work. Then show them the sources used to substantiate the women's claims and challenge them to disprove them. Then show them other claims (e.g. Fawn Brodie's number of 56) and ask why there is strong evidence that Compton downplayed Smith's list of conquests.
This Mormon lie is so blatant and easily disproved that it is an excellent method for challenging Mormon faith.
"You have to be carefully taught...":
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