Posted on 06/08/2012 8:21:53 PM PDT by Colofornian
“There’s families all scattered in through this area who had ancestors in that, so there is a tinge of anti-Mormonism in this area, a little bit of bias I suppose,” said Republican Roy Ragland...
SNIP
The Mountain Meadows Massacre remains one of the darkest episodes in the history of Mormonism...Romney addressed it during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporter’s question.
“That was a terrible, awful act carried out by members of my faith,” he told the Associated Press. “There are bad people in any church, and it’s true of members of my church, too.”
SNIP
In northwestern Arkansas, at least two monuments commemorate the massacre, including a towering wooden cross erected just six years ago. On it is carved a biblical saying: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay saith the Lord.”
Historians believe the wagon train of 30 families, laden with cattle and other goods, set off in early 1857...
Their journey took them through Utah...
...local Mormon leaders decided to attack the wagon train with the help of a local Native American tribe, on whom they planned to lay the blame. After days of exchanging fire, a Mormon leader approached the camp to offer safe passage. But it was a ruse: The Mormon militia massacred the men and women and many of the children, 120 in all. Seventeen...were spared, and adopted by local families until federal authorities intervened to return them to Arkansas...
Descendants’ groups headquartered here...have...sometimes clashed with, the Mormon Church to create a public memorial at the site...which sits on church property...
“It’s an emotional thing for us,” said Phil Bolinger, president of the Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation. “When you come of age, when you mature, things to do with your own blood kin becomes more important and you become passionate about it.”...
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Romance movie? WTH are you talking about?
Yes they had guns. They knew they were likely to be illegally attacked and killed and they prepared to defend themselves knowing that the whole thing was a sham.
They did not try and escape. That’s an absolute load of Bravo Sierra. Smith was already across the River preparing to go West when the word came and his wife asked him to return. So he did so and freely gave himself up, stating at the time he was going like a lamb to the slaughter...and he was.
If he wanted to escape, he never would have returned.
They did not try to escape, they used their unalienable rights to self defense to defend themselves against a mob and a pre-determined setting of murder and death were they were left to the very mob that had vowed to kill them...and they died in the result.
I teach this each year in our classes arounf the June time frame which makes some members uncomfortable...but the fact is he had the wepaons because he knew his rights were being trampled, even though it was illegal to have them in the jail. He tried to defend himself and others...and failed and died in the attempt.
Romance movie?...please, you have got to be kidding me. Forgive and excuse me, but what a sophmoric statement.
Voting for Romney to get a Christian in the WH is as misguided as voting for Romney to get a conservative in the WH. Romney is a pretender on both fronts.
I agree. The massacre is all Romney’s fault. He has full personal responsibility. By association. Guilt by association and group guilt are important principles. Keep up the good work.
Provided, of course, the lamb was armed and ready to engage in a shoot-out.
They were in jail, when their cohorts smuggled them guns, they died in a shoot out while trying to escape.
I said a romance cowboy movie, because you Jeff are apparently trying to make this incident into something it was not by romanticizing it.
My only point that it is hypocritical to use events 150 years ago to be pertinent in a 2012 presidential election. In 1857 several of my ancestors owned negro slaves . Should I be held accountable for that??????
Your suggestion has been passed to the moderators for their consideration.
The mormon church and its members have spent 180 years revisiting "those terrible acts on both sides (that) were travesties and atrocious and have no place in this nation" and cowering behind the "victim" label in an attempt to gain sympathy....and members.
Anytime the sins and failures of various mormons are brought to light, from financial scams to child molestation, there is ALWAYS the old theme song, "But we mormons are SO persecuted" used as a defense of the sins and crimes.
The second post on this thread whines about mormon "persecution"
Jeff made THIS comment in Post #17 on this thread. "God rest the souls of those settlers who were killed and bless and comfort their descendants.
And God bless and rest those LDS people who were massacred and killed in Missouri and Illinois 15-20 years earlier when the LDS were brutally persecuted and pushed out into the Intermountain West to the Great Basin." which IMO is a blatant, major distortion of the actual history of early mormonism, after previously saying in the same post, "As I have stated to you and others before me I will not sit back and countenance such a willful, and blatant distortion.
Flying Inmans will recall that a departed FReeper made a huge outcry about the "persecution" of a mormon missionary in having a cup of water splashed on her.
IMO, "persecution" consists of 52,000 mormon missionaries knocking on the doors of Christians and making the claim to them that their faith is bogus and the only way to obtain salvation is through mormon temple rituals. That is violating the property of others in order to lie to them.
Try reading actual newspaper articles of early mormon history and then get back to us.
Those 'cohorts' had names.
Smith's personal secretary, John S. Fullmer, first smuggled in the single-shot pistol. Later, Cyrus H. Wheelock smuggled in the six-shot 1837 patent Ethan Allen pistol. According to the Official History of the Church, Chapter XXXIII, p. 602-622 (I'm reading from a non-paginated version, since lds.org removed the Official History of the Church from its website last fall), upon receiving the six-shot pistol, Joseph Smith gave the single-shot pistol to his brother, Hyrum.
This is a particularly touchy historical point for me, because last December I was called a liar, a 'poisoner of the truth', and therefor unfit to lead Scouts on this forum when I said that guns had been smuggled into the jail. I continued to be called a liar even after I posted the cites and links to the Official History of the Church, cites to CES lessons naming Wheelock, and screenshots from CES materials, including the photo of the pistols from the LDS museum.
YIKES! Explains a lot about present day mormonthink.
When you feel and have been taught a lie of persecution for decades of course you would come unhinged with facts.
Great source of information, thanks.
I'd second the suggestion, but I'm afraid my participation might spell doom for it.
Sounds like a good idea, though.
I am sorry, I didn’t realize that this was a religious forum thread. I said a baaaaad word in an earlier post. The moderator is free to delete it if he feels like it.
Now you know how to get some burning in your bosom and have your eyes glaze over in TBM...dumb.
Talk about urban legends.
I wasn’t referring to you, but to the idea presented suggesting the possibility of RF rules being expanded. Sorry if it disturbed you.
Not being romanticised in the least. They were attacked while in jail by a mob intent on killing them. Of course they defended themselves. Of course they tried to avoid it.
You talk as if though constables shot it out with them when they tried to make a forced escape...but that is not the way it occurred at all. The guards left them...they were attacked by people who came there with the specific purpose of killing them...not at all as officers of the law.
So, when illegally attacked, they fought back...and tried to avoid the hail fo gunfire. Joseph and Hyrum were killed.
Nothing romantic about any of that. Cold blooded murder, plain and simple. Even if they were being held in jail.
From a video taken in a mormon "testimony" meeting:
""I'd like to bear my testimony. I know this [the LDS] church is true. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know Thomas S. Monson is a prophet of God. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen."
In this secret audio recording taken by a member of the LDS Church, the child parrots the usual words whispered by the parent. At one point, however, the child mistakenly says "I know Thomas S. Monson is a God" before the parent corrects her.
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