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Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith tangles with a quirk of Arkansas history
Washington Post ^ | May 20, 2012

Posted on 06/08/2012 8:21:53 PM PDT by Colofornian

“There’s families all scattered in through this area who had ancestors in that, so there is a tinge of anti-Mormonism in this area, a little bit of bias I suppose,” said Republican Roy Ragland...

SNIP

The Mountain Meadows Massacre remains one of the darkest episodes in the history of Mormonism...Romney addressed it during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporter’s question.

“That was a terrible, awful act carried out by members of my faith,” he told the Associated Press. “There are bad people in any church, and it’s true of members of my church, too.”

SNIP

In northwestern Arkansas, at least two monuments commemorate the massacre, including a towering wooden cross erected just six years ago. On it is carved a biblical saying: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay saith the Lord.”

Historians believe the wagon train of 30 families, laden with cattle and other goods, set off in early 1857...

Their journey took them through Utah...

...local Mormon leaders decided to attack the wagon train with the help of a local Native American tribe, on whom they planned to lay the blame. After days of exchanging fire, a Mormon leader approached the camp to offer safe passage. But it was a ruse: The Mormon militia massacred the men and women and many of the children, 120 in all. Seventeen...were spared, and adopted by local families until federal authorities intervened to return them to Arkansas...

Descendants’ groups headquartered here...have...sometimes clashed with, the Mormon Church to create a public memorial at the site...which sits on church property...

“It’s an emotional thing for us,” said Phil Bolinger, president of the Mountain Meadows Monument Foundation. “When you come of age, when you mature, things to do with your own blood kin becomes more important and you become passionate about it.”...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: History; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: arkansas; illinois; inman; lds; mittromney; mormon; mountainmeadows; nauvoo; obama
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To: Colofornian
Romney addressed it during his 2007 presidential campaign in response to a reporter’s question.
   “That was a terrible, awful ACT [singular] carried out by members of my faith,”
     he told the Associated Press.
 
 
But he flubbed the OFFICIAL story of only ONE man being responsible: that rapid shooting, fast reloading, John D. Lee!
 


 

 

"I am a true believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, I do not believe everything that is now being taught and practiced by Brigham Young.

 I do not care who hears it. It is my last word - it is so.

 I believe he is lead­ing the people astray, downward to destruction.

 But I believe in the gospel that was taught in its purity by Joseph Smith, in former days.

 I have my reasons for it.

 

"I studied to make this man's [Brigham Young] will my pleasure for thirty years.

See, now, what I have come to this day!

 

"I have been sacrificed in a cowardly, dastardly manner." (Lee enun­ciated this sentence with marked emphasis.)

 

 

Excerpted from -->  http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadows/leeexecution.html

51 posted on 06/09/2012 6:10:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: JoSixChip
If we want to hold people accountable for the actions of their ancestors, I can assure you none of our hands are clean.

Nope!

We want them ACCOUNTABLE for staying a member of a false religion that teaches a false 'christ' and a false 'salvation'.

52 posted on 06/09/2012 6:13:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zhang Fei
Mormons were the target of a massacre that was never prosecuted and an extermination order by a governor of Missouri in 1838. Mormonism's founder was lynched by Protestants. I'd say there was plenty of sectarian violence to go around, back in the day.

I see you have been given some FALSE information.

One, JS did NOT get 'lynched'.
He had a GUN smuggled in to his cell in jail, and he died from bullet wounds while using that gun to shoot at folks.

Two, if their really WAS an 'extermination order', then perhaps you could explain why so many MORMONs CHOSE to stay in Missouri and NOT flee to the West with BY?

They actually PROSPERED there and were heir to all of the property that the other Mormons left behind.

53 posted on 06/09/2012 6:18:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head
Come on Colo...you have added to the title with the “[1st 9/11 terrorism was Lds]” which is another deliberate attempt to equate the LDS Church with our nation’s enemies.

Jeff; the LDS Church is our GOD’s enemy.



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

54 posted on 06/09/2012 6:21:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

I’m going to head back to Missouri and reclaim the Binger property that mt GG grandfather lost.

Reparations brother!


55 posted on 06/09/2012 6:23:58 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Jeff Head
And God bless and rest those LDS people who were massacred and killed in Missouri and Illinois 15-20 years earlier when the LDS were brutally persecuted and pushed out into the Intermountain West to the Great Basin.

Massacred? For WHAT? WHAT have you CONVENIENTLY left out of the story?

"brutally persecuted"???

Perhaps Captain Hyperbole can explain the RLDS church...

56 posted on 06/09/2012 6:24:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime
Hey! If you can’t prove your religion is true, criticize the others!

Yet; that is exactly what YOU are trying to do.

TCOJSOLDS makes claims about the Book of MORMON; that it CONTAINS the 'fullness of the gospel'.

I daresay that NO mormon can show just where that is located...




57 posted on 06/09/2012 6:31:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Loud Mime
It is a strange event when the psychotic obama followers join forces with they psychotic religious nutcases.

LM; usually if a person has some evidence to prove their point, they present it.

You, however, have chosen to act cute and make up names to call folks.

58 posted on 06/09/2012 6:33:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: faithhopecharity
My attempted point was merely that the WashPost is a very biased newspaper today.

Have you read Deseret News lately?

59 posted on 06/09/2012 6:35:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Jeff Head
At that time it was a US Army that was coming to the LDS settlements around the Great Salt Lake...

Oh?

WHY?

60 posted on 06/09/2012 6:37:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zhang Fei
...but it resulted in the confiscation of all Mormon property in the state of Missouri without recompense.

Oh?

Explain the RLDS church.

61 posted on 06/09/2012 6:38:37 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Zhang Fei
How would you feel if the state of California took all your property and kicked you out of the state?

Kinda like...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

62 posted on 06/09/2012 6:40:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rmlew
Romney is the nominee and aiding Obama will get us nowhere.

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

April 21st, 2012

URGENT!

Fellow MORMON Freeper Christians!!
 
Hot diggity dog; our boy has MADE it!!
Now beware; for the media is gonna be on us like... well; you know the saying.

I've been getting lots of feedback from those of you on Free Republic (spit) about a certain ELSIE (or something like that), who is REALLY giving us a hard time there!
 
Why not try to point out to the uninformed how OBSESSED he seems to be.
 
Let's see if we can tangle him up so much trying to defend his reputation
that he'll no longer have as much time to post facts about MORMONism.
 
As always, Tommy M.  
 
(Keep pressing that we are CHRISTIAN and avoid anything MORMON like the DEVIL!!)

63 posted on 06/09/2012 6:42:23 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: rmlew
As for the massacre, supposedly one of the settlers won a group Darwin award by saying that he was one of the people who killed Joseph Smith.

Speaking of DARWIN...



 
"Joseph; I advise you not to go to that jail."
 
"Darn gnats!!"
 
 
"Joseph; I'm telling you to not to go to that jail."
 
"Flies are BAD today!!"
 
 
"Joseph; It ain't gonna be pretty if you ignore me and go to that jail!"
 
"Crummy mosquitos are EVERYWHERE!!!"
 
 
"Joseph!  Do NOT go to that jail!"
 
"And those bedbugs really savaged me last night, too!"
 
 
"JOSEPH!!  Wake up boy!   Do Not Go To That JAIL!!!"
 
"All right Sheriff - here I am, so give me a nice room while my Lawyer, my Advocate, my Comforter presents the LAW to the Judge and I am VINDICATED!!!"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


64 posted on 06/09/2012 6:46:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
The Mormons killed a several great Aunt of mine at the Mt. Meadows massacre. Cynthia Jones Tackett.

Do I dislike, distrust, and think Mormoms are a cult?.... Yes

Do I think this event has even one iota of a matter on presidential politics?....NO.

The libs are reaching, and it won't stick.

65 posted on 06/09/2012 6:49:20 AM PDT by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: Elsie
Your reading assignment.

A book of fantasy like no other. At age 11 or 12 it was my reading assignment.

66 posted on 06/09/2012 6:50:23 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: samtheman
... just as every single non-black person...

Speaking of BLACK folks; Mitt was evidently content to stay in a RACIST church during his early adult life.

He never left that racist church.

ALA Reagan; "...the church left him."





"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.



Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 5: 21 'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

Alma 3: 6 'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'



August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)



1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."



We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.



Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).



When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."



When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)





Yeah; Native Americans are althroughout the Book of MORMON; too.

 

“I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather.... These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness.

One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

 

(Improvement Era, December 1960, pp.922-23). (p. 209)

 



 

67 posted on 06/09/2012 6:51:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: samtheman
"...the church left him."


Official Declaration—2

 

To Whom It May Concern:

On 30 September 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

June 8, 1978
To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:
Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,
Spencer W. Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney
The First Presidency

Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

Salt Lake City, Utah, September 30, 1978.

68 posted on 06/09/2012 6:51:54 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Utah Binger
It canNOT be as beautiful as the property that GOD has allowed you to tend right now!



69 posted on 06/09/2012 6:56:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Later in the day.....





 
 

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....

70 posted on 06/09/2012 6:59:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; Colofornian

I’m not arguing. I’m agreeing.

This is a conservative website.

Collective group guilt is an important conservative principle.

Good on you guys for promoting it.


71 posted on 06/09/2012 7:00:54 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: catfish1957
The Mormons killed a several great Aunt of mine at the Mt. Meadows massacre. Cynthia Jones Tackett.

I wonder if any UTE, Native Americans, will join this thread; naming some of THEIR ancestors...


 

The gruesome be headings of some 40 Ute corpses in 1850, heads stacked in boxes,
and hung by their long hair from the eves of buildings at Fort Utah,
 has long been ignored, “You didn’t see the Indians beheading the Mormons.”
 
-- Historian Robert Carter

72 posted on 06/09/2012 7:02:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: catfish1957
Do I think this event has even one iota of a matter on presidential politics?....NO.

Do you know that a LOT of folks think Obama is a follower of a BAD religion?

They seem to think it matters...

73 posted on 06/09/2012 7:03:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: catfish1957

I agree with you that Mormonism is a cult. I suspect that Hubbard drew inspiration from Smith.


74 posted on 06/09/2012 7:03:57 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: Utah Binger

YOW!

That is a bit pricey!

Maybe my midwestern, Indiana small town library has it...

I do know that the MORMONs have some scripture that MIGHT apply:

The

DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 71

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238–239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.

1–4, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 5–11, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.

1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.

2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.

3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.

4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.

5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;

6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.

7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.

8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.

9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you—there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;

10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.

11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.

 

75 posted on 06/09/2012 7:08:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Utah Binger
Confounded; eh?

The only thing 'confounded' was JS' GUN!

The confounded thing did not WORK correctly!!



76 posted on 06/09/2012 7:10:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: samtheman
Collective group guilt is an important conservative principle.

Good on you guys for promoting it.

What we are 'promoting' is information about MORMONism that SLC says no longer matters.

Are you agreeing with them?

77 posted on 06/09/2012 7:14:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie

My lease on life is at least 15-20 years. I hope. That is as long as no decisions need be made by the death panels.


78 posted on 06/09/2012 7:14:46 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: catfish1957
Do I dislike, distrust, and think Mormoms are a cult?.... Yes Do I think this event has even one iota of a matter on presidential politics?....NO.

Again...Romney was asked about the MMM in '07.

He had an opportunity then to say the event was "irrelevent" (your take) to presidential politics.

Did he?

NO.

79 posted on 06/09/2012 7:18:10 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Jeff Head

And why was that, Jeff?


80 posted on 06/09/2012 7:18:39 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Jeff Head

They were not persecuted.
Oh, have the MMM victims all been necrobaptized?


81 posted on 06/09/2012 7:31:18 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Elsie
Hard to believe that our country by nature of the choice provided will be lead by a "non-Christian" for eight years- 2008-2016.

That is worrysome.

82 posted on 06/09/2012 7:34:59 AM PDT by catfish1957 (My dream for hope and change is to see the punk POTUS in prison for treason)
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To: Elsie

Good argument. But, the Deseret News is owned by the LDS Church, and does not hide this fact, and
a pro-LDS slant is not surprising. (Because I do not need this, I do not read it, to answer your question directly.)
The WashPost is supposedly “the newspaper of record” in “our nation’s capitol.”
I expect better of it.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for your note.
(ps: What has the WashPost done to investigate —and report to us on — the current administration?)


83 posted on 06/09/2012 7:39:18 AM PDT by faithhopecharity
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To: svcw; Jeff Head
Oh, have the MMM victims all been necrobaptized?

(And how many of those grade school-aged kidnapped children, upon turning age 8 during those two years of captivity, were baptized as "Mormons" -- all against the will of their families?)

84 posted on 06/09/2012 7:40:15 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian; samtheman; rmlew; Zhang Fei; 5th MEB; Loud Mime; JoSixChip
Name for me exactly when within the 20th century...

The 1999 rebuilding and repair of the Mountain Meadows Monument by the LDS Church under the direction of Gordon B. Hinkley was a start, but not enough IMHO.

More recently, I believe that the Church's involvement in the 2007 150th anniversary of the horrific massacre and the official apology the Church gave there for members' involvement, and particularly the book by the LDS Church Historian, Turley, "Massacre at Mountain Meadows," which was published soon thereafter, have gone a long way towards that end.

Hopefully such actions and movement towards reconciling that terrible period in history (including the atrocities against LDS members in Missouri and Illinois which to date themselves have never been reconciled) will either start, or in this case, continue.

85 posted on 06/09/2012 7:44:13 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: catfish1957
g IF!

It's a LONG way to November!

(What if the Dems decide at their convention to NOT run with Obama?)

86 posted on 06/09/2012 7:45:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian

****Because of this long-time Mormon silence,***

A few years back it was decided to rebuild some of the MMM monument. A backhoe was brought in and the first shovel full brought up so many bones and skulls that it shook up the diggers. They proposed to fill the hole back in, THEN TAKE AN OATH THEY HAD FOUND NOTHING.

This was reported in a major news magazine, I don’t remember which one.


87 posted on 06/09/2012 7:45:45 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Anything Goes, Phantom of the Opera, Nice work if you can get it, EVITA. On BROADWAY last week.!)
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To: catfish1957
g IF!

HUH?

88 posted on 06/09/2012 7:46:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; catfish1957
Do I think this event has even one iota of a matter on presidential politics?....NO. [Catfish 1957]

Do you know that a LOT of folks think Obama is a follower of a BAD religion? They seem to think it matters... [Elsie]

Good point, Elz.

Those making the FR brief lecture tour about what is and what isn't "presidential politics" never seem to be able to stop by ANY of the Jeremiah Wright or Obama-is-a-closet-Muslim threads to ask, "What does this have to do with presidential politics?"

Strange lopsided applications (if these were indeed deeply-rooted convictions).

Therefore, I get the sense they are not.

So...Catfish...what is your motivation then for defending Romney?

Personal apologetics for Romney?

(I don't think it's Mormon apologetics)

You see, if you consistently applied your worldviews, it wouldn't come across so religiously hypocritical.

89 posted on 06/09/2012 7:46:39 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Jeff Head

They never finished it Jeff - the mormon church REFUSES to replace the cross that was on the original rock cairn - the one that Brigham Young personally helped tear down. The mormon church’s refusal to allow it to be restored is just another snipe at the surviving families.


90 posted on 06/09/2012 7:48:51 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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Comment #91 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie

****Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws...”

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President*****

And what did the Swedish convert to Mormonism have to say about this? It was “Yoost to fool the Yentiles!” ;-D


92 posted on 06/09/2012 7:53:15 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Anything Goes, Phantom of the Opera, Nice work if you can get it, EVITA. On BROADWAY last week.!)
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To: Zhang Fei

“Mormonism’s founder was lynched by Protestants. “

Oh, please. Joe Smith got frontier justice, AFTER opening fire on those surrounding the jail. I wish he’d had a trial, but he earned what he got. The men and women who he cheated, stole from and abused, demanded justice.


93 posted on 06/09/2012 8:00:05 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, you keep bringing up atrocities against lds, there were none.
There was anger over child brides, multiple wives, campaigning against the US, burning down business that dared to speak ill of them, defrauding people with their own banks, blaspheming God Almighty, and more - people got sick of it and wanted the lds gone. Perfectly understandable.
Not even all lds left, to follow their cult leaders, hence the creation of many lds groups, now using different names.


94 posted on 06/09/2012 8:00:05 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Jeff Head; Godzilla; All
More recently, I believe that the Church's involvement in the 2007 150th anniversary of the horrific massacre and the official apology the Church gave there for members' involvement, and particularly the book by the LDS Church Historian, Turley, "Massacre at Mountain Meadows," which was published soon thereafter, have gone a long way towards that end.

Thanks for your reply, Jeff.

I was specific on the century for a reason.

That reason is that within the 21st century, I believe at least an argument could be made that the Lds church has (finally) after about 150 years, begun to address it.

That's why I said 20th century.

Otherwise -- re: the 1999 reference you made on repairing the monument...'Zilla is right: They never finished it Jeff - the mormon church REFUSES to replace the cross that was on the original rock cairn - the one that Brigham Young personally helped tear down. The mormon church’s refusal to allow it to be restored is just another snipe at the surviving families.

So, my question in post #46 stands: Name for me exactly when within the 20th century -- and with who -- the cover-up of the MMM finally ended within Mormonism?

All Mormons, lurkers & posters: If you cannot answer this question -- and especially cannot name ANY 19th or 20th century Mormon leader who did not add to the cover-up, what moral implications does this have for you to claim that you are led by God's living spokesmen?

95 posted on 06/09/2012 8:04:15 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
A few years back it was decided to rebuild some of the MMM monument. A backhoe was brought in and the first shovel full brought up so many bones and skulls that it shook up the diggers. They proposed to fill the hole back in, THEN TAKE AN OATH THEY HAD FOUND NOTHING.

Yes...this was REALLY quite disturbing. It's covered in Sally Denton's 2003 book entitled: American Massacre: The Tragedy at Mountain Meadows, September 1857 (Vintage Books, division from Random House)

96 posted on 06/09/2012 8:06:32 AM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Elsie

***The confounded thing did not WORK correctly!!***

I think he fired off three rounds, two other cylinders misfired. With those three rounds he wounded several men who later died of their wounds, and may have accidentally shot his own brother Hyrum in the back.


97 posted on 06/09/2012 8:06:39 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Anything Goes, Phantom of the Opera, Nice work if you can get it, EVITA. On BROADWAY last week.!)
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To: Zhang Fei; Jeff Head
Smith was not lynched. He was shot while trying to escape from jail after his cohorts smuggled guns to him and his brother and the Smith boys started the shoot out.

This is a copy of the actually so called extermination order:

Headquarters of the Militia,

City of Jefferson, Oct. 27, 1838.

Gen. John B. Clark:

Sir:–Since the order of this morning to you, directing you to cause four hundred mounted men to be raised within your Division, I have received by Amos Rees, Esq. of Ray county, and Wiley C. Williams, Esq. one of my aids, information of the most appalling character, which entirely changes the face of things, and places the Mormons in the attitude of an open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this State.

Your orders are, therefore, to hasten your operations with all possible speed. The Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the state if necessary for the public peace–their outrages are beyond all description. If you can increase your force, you are authorized to do so to any extent you may consider necessary.

I have just issued orders to Maj. Gen. Willock, of Marion county, to raise five hundred men, and to march them to the northern part of Daviess, and there unite with Gen Doniphan, of Clay, who has been ordered with five hundred men to proceed to the same point for the purpose of intercepting the retreat of the Mormons to the north.

They have been directed to communicate with you by express, you can also communicate with them if you find it necessary. Instead therefore of proceeding as at first directed to reinstate the citizens of Daviess in their homes, you will proceed immediately to Richmond and then operate against the Mormons. Brig. Gen. Parks, of Ray, has been ordered to have four hundred of his Brigade in readiness to join you at Richmond. The whole force will be placed under your command.

I am very respectfully,

your ob’t serv’t,

L. W. Boggs, Commander-in-Chief

For your edification and others:

Webster’s 1828 Dictionary:

EXTERMINATE, v.t. [L. extermino; ex and terminus, limit] Literally, to drive from within the limits or borders. Hence,

1. To destroy utterly; to drive away; to extirpate; as, to exterminate a colony, a tribe or a nation; to exterminate inhabitants or a race of men.

2. To eradicate; to root out; to extirpate; as to exterminate error, heresy, infidelity, or atheism; to exterminate vice.

98 posted on 06/09/2012 8:11:54 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Hyrum was shot first...and it was in response to that shooting that Jospeh Smith fired his gun, according to the people in the room with him.

Jospeh Smith did not accidentally shot his brother, that had already ocurred at the hands of the mob.

I can see this is going to get into one of those our version of history vs. your version of history contests. No purpose served in that. Joseph Smith is long since dead and was murdered by an illegal mob of thugs who came there for that purpose. His brother Hyrum was killed with him.

It was a sad and tragic part of American history from the Missouri persecutions and killings clear through the Mountain Meadows Massacre which this thead is about.

I pray we can learn from that tragic history and never repeat it on this soil.

99 posted on 06/09/2012 8:13:00 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, the Smith brothers were shot in a shoot out after their cohorts smuggled them guns.
This is not a romance cowboy movie, the Smith brothers were in jail for a reason, they tried to escape, it was a gamble, they lost and died.


100 posted on 06/09/2012 8:16:46 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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