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Most Christians Have No Idea What Mormons Believe [LDS truth claims oft' tucked away by Mormons]
Christian Newswire ^ | June 7, 2012

Posted on 06/10/2012 9:38:54 AM PDT by Colofornian

TORRANCE, Calif., June 7, 2012 /Christian Newswire/ -- There are more than a dozen key differences in the beliefs of Christians and Mormons, yet most Christians have no idea.

In a recent article in the Christian magazine, World, author Joel Belz made this statement:

"A huge majority of the American public has no idea what Mormons claim to believe. If those holding to the Mormon faith were to place their distinctive truth claims front and center, the public response would be probing, negative, and nasty." -- World Magazine, God's World Publications, online June 16, 2012 edition (Vol. 27, No. 12)

For starters, official Mormon teachings include the belief that God the Father was once a man who progressed to godhood and that worthy men may one day become gods themselves.

On the topic of Jesus, official Mormon doctrine holds that Jesus' death on the cross did not provide full atonement for all sin. There is no concept of the Trinity. Rather, Mormonism is polytheistic, having multiple gods.

Everyone -- whether you are religious or just curious -- should know the differences. A free side-by-side comparison chart showing differences between Mormonism and Christianity is available as a free download for your computer or iPad. It can be printed for personal or group use. This objective chart simple compares the beliefs of Mormonism and Christianity in eight key areas.

Go to: www.rose-publishing.com/Assets/ClientPages/mormon_landing.aspx to download the free comparison chart.

Rose Publishing is a Christian publishing company that specializes in comparison charts of religious groups and church denominations that help Christians understand biblical basics. The company takes no political stance.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: antiromneyism; beliefs; bigotelsie; christians; inman; lds; mormon; shameonelsie
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To: Jean S

This thread is about mormonism not Romney or BHO, however there are some who apparently are unwilling to stay on topic.
If you don’t like the discussion of mormonism in the religion forum, why not just move along.


51 posted on 06/10/2012 1:18:35 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: amihow

This is the religion forum, if you do not like religion discussion don’t get on the thread.


52 posted on 06/10/2012 1:20:26 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Chainsawj

how do they know if you’re morman? is there a secret handshake? a secret password?

- - - - - -
You have an entrance card with a magnetic strip on the back that you run through the computer.

You only get one if your bishop and stake president (think priest and bishop for Catholics) determine you are worthy through interviews and donations to the LDS church, and then you can only attend the wedding if you have been married in the temple yourself - otherwise no dice.


53 posted on 06/10/2012 1:20:54 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: mkjessup; Jean S
You a are a troll and you seriously need to get a life that goes beyond trashing the LDS. [Jean s]

Colofornian was here on FR before I arrived in 2003. He is no troll and your '98 sign up date notwithstanding, you ought to know that. What chapter of the Mormon Church do you belong to? [mkjessup]

Thanx, MK. Jean S. is a Colofornian troll and needs to seriously get a life that goes beyond trashing Colofornian.

I assume that you’ll be voting for Obama? [Jean s]

Did you forget that when you 'assume', you make an 'ass' out of 'u' but not 'me' (as in not Colofornian)? Don't be slinging that troll-word around unless you can back it up. [mkjessup]

You pegged it, MK.

(I've never voted Dem...don't intend to...I do intend to exit the GoP -- either for the Constitution Party or Independent status -- once the Rombots have instituted their liberal big govt socialist healthcare pioneer pro-abort named Mitt Romney...I mean, hey, if I wanted somebody to the left of LBJ, I'd become a Democrat long ago...Jean is showing how pro-abort, how big govt, and how pro-socialist healthcare she is and doesn't like it when people counter that)

54 posted on 06/10/2012 1:21:11 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: TheShaz; reaganaut; Graybeard58; svcw; Zakeet; aMorePerfectUnion; Colofornian

You are going to leave FR because of the typing by less than 20 people concerning Mormonism?

All those people are trying to do was warn people, LONG before Mitt Romney ever had the nod, is warn people about what a false religion Mormonism is.

While I have been silent in recent years, you can count me in among them and in full agreement of it being a false religion.

You can also count me in full disagreement with Mitt being a so-called Conservative.

But, to be fair, Mitt is NOT the nominee yet, either. No convention has taken place and no formal party promotion has been given.


55 posted on 06/10/2012 1:21:25 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: amihow

People are free to vote for whom they please, again this the religion forum.


56 posted on 06/10/2012 1:21:45 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw
This thread is about mormonism not Romney

Nonsense, of course it's about Romney, how cannot it not be?

My question to the Mommon haters, and it think it's a fair question because FREE REPUBLIC is a political forum: Will you be voting for Obama because Romney is a Mormon?

57 posted on 06/10/2012 1:24:11 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: amihow; svcw

You know that the unspoken and sometime spoken issue is Romney, not Mormonism.

How many of you swearing to God will say that you intend to vote for Romney and will encourage others to do the same?

- - - - -
Wow, you are an idiot, ami.

We have been doing this long before Romney and would do it even if he weren’t the nominee.

I have been fighting Mormonism for almost 20 years now and will do so until my dying day, Romney has no part of it.

I WILL NOT vote for Romney, but that is because of his liberal politics. I”m not voting for Obama either. I’m voting my conscience, I’m voting for a conservative.


58 posted on 06/10/2012 1:26:31 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut; enduserindy

BTW, they are only nice to ‘gentiles’ (all non-Mormons even Jews) in hopes you might convert - you should hear how they talk about you to each other!
____________________________________________

When my children were young we lived in another state...

Right next to the Christian church we attended was a Mormon religious building...

The Mormon kids would line the fence and yell abuse at us as we walked in from the parking lot...

The would yell that we were going to Hell because we were not Mormons...and that we werent saved etc

My TWO YEAR OLD little girl would scream in fright from the jears and ugly comments...

and the Mormon adults standing closer to the building would cat call and encourage the Mormon children to keep up the harrassment...and suggest other things to say...and giggle loudly like hyhenas

Our Christian poastor finally went over to talk to the Mormon bishop...or whomever..

The Mormon bishop spewed a stream of FOUR LETTER WORDS at him so he left...

We had to put up with that ugliness from our “nice neighbors”

We were instructed not to answer back or defend ourselves although no Christian our side of the fence had up to that point.,.

Shortly after that our church began buying up all the old buildings and land all around the Mormon religious buildings and apparantly they didnt have the money to compete !!!

The Mormons got pretty isolated in their nastiness and hatred...


59 posted on 06/10/2012 1:27:12 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: mimaw

Jews don’t profess to be Christians...


60 posted on 06/10/2012 1:27:21 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: Jean S

You are in the religion forum, one of many forums on FR. If you are not interested in a discussion of mormonism, then why not stay off the thread.


61 posted on 06/10/2012 1:27:30 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: amihow; svcw

You know that the unspoken and sometime spoken issue is Romney, not Mormonism.

How many of you swearing to God will say that you intend to vote for Romney and will encourage others to do the same?

- - - - -
Wow, you are an idiot, ami.

We have been doing this long before Romney and would do it even if he weren’t the nominee. The flying inmans have been here for about a decade now. Long before Romney ran the LAST time.

I have been fighting Mormonism for almost 20 years now and will do so until my dying day, Romney has no part of it.

I WILL NOT vote for Romney, but that is because of his liberal politics. I”m not voting for Obama either. I’m voting my conscience, I’m voting for a conservative.


62 posted on 06/10/2012 1:28:27 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Jean S

“Will you be voting for Obama because Romney is a Mormon? “

I can only speak for me... I’ll be voting for conservatives. Neither of those you mentioned is a conservative.

That said, mormonism is still a cult and RINOmney is a cultic high priest.


63 posted on 06/10/2012 1:31:43 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I'm comfortable with a Romney win." - Pres. Jimmy Carter)
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To: svcw

Are you seriously kicking me off of the religion forum? I thought that anyone could post in any forum.


64 posted on 06/10/2012 1:31:43 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S

none of us have the authority to kick you off, buyt we can have the decency to reccomend you leave if you are offended at Mormonism being exposed

We didnt make forceful statements like you did, so, keep that in mind

by the way, since NO ONE except one of the Romney defenders brought up Romney, why did you think it was about Romney?


65 posted on 06/10/2012 1:36:39 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: Jean S
That is not what I said.

I said: You are in the religion forum, one of many forums on FR. If you are not interested in a discussion of mormonism, then why not stay off the thread.

The choice is yours to stay or not, I am reminding you that if the discussion of religion is apparently so agitating to you, maybe you should not be on the tread.

Stay or not, you choose.

66 posted on 06/10/2012 1:41:20 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: trebb
We know what Obama says he believes - does anyone believe he believes what he says he believes?

Take a look below @ what Romney has said he believes regarding the pre-born...

Allow me to summarize it...then if you want, you can weave your way thru for the "details."

Up until '01, Romney said he was a pro-abort...then he told Utah readers he didn't wish to be labeled "pro-choice."

Then, running for Mass guv, he immediately went back to pro-abort status...Then Nov of '04 he said he had a pro-life conversion.

By May '05 he was telling Mass citizens in a press conference that he would keep the "status quo" on abortion (my, my, how "pro-life" of him).

He pushed thru $50 taxpayer-funded abortions in '06 and ensured that a Planned Parenthood rep would be a permanent oversight member of MA Commonwealth. From there, look @ the chart below...and based upon especially the three interviews the Romneys did with Chris Wallace (Aug 07), Katie Couric (Dec 07), and Parade Mag (Nov 11) YOU, TREBB tell me what the Romneys believe about the pre-born!

YEAR Obvious Pro-Abortion Romney Romney Feigning 'Pro-Life'
Bottom-Line Summary: ANN Romney Lies Thru Her Teeth Ann Romney, 1994: Romney's wife gives donation to Planned Parenthood (Ann Romney’s Planned Parenthood Donation Ann Romney, 2011: In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have never changed; we’ve always been pro-life (Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side)
Bottom-Line Summary: Mitt Romney Lies Thru His Teeth “Over the last multiple years, as you know, I have been effectively pro-choice." (Bruce Smith, "Romney Campaigns in SC with Sen. DeMint," The Associated Press, 1/29/07) + ...”my position was effectively pro-choice." (Source: 2007 GOP Iowa Straw Poll debate 8/5/2007) So, not only does Ann Romney tell Parade Magazine November 2011 that they've “never changed” re: abortion and that they've “always been pro-life,” but Mitt Romney told Chris Wallace part-way through their 2007 campaign that: “I never allowed myself to use the word pro-choice because I didn't FEEL I was pro-choice. I would protect the law, I said, as it was, but I wasn't pro-choice”...This was seven months after he said in January 2007 that he was “always for life.”
2006 April 12, 2006--Mitt signs his "Commonwealth Care" into existence, thereby expanding abortion access/taxpayer funded abortions for women--including almost 2% of the females of his state who earn $75,000 or more. (Wait a minute, I thought he told us post-'06 that ALL of his actions were "pro-life?"). Also, not only this, but as governor, Romney could exercise veto power to portions of Commonwealth Care. Did Romney exercise this power? (Yes, he vetoed Sections 5, 27, 29, 47, 112, 113, 134 & 137). What prominent section dealing with Planned Parenthood as part of the "payment policy advisory board" did Romney choose NOT to veto? (Section 3) That section mandates that one member of MassHealth Payment Policy Board must be appointed by Planned Parenthood League of MA. (See chapter 58 of the Acts of 2006, section 3 for details). "As governor, I’ve had several pieces of legislation reach my desk, which would have expanded abortion rights in Massachusetts. Each of those I vetoed. Every action I’ve taken as the governor that relates
Early 2007 On January 29, 2007 during South Carolina visit, Romney stated: “Over the last multiple years, as you know, I have been effectively pro-choice." (Bruce Smith, "Romney Campaigns in SC with Sen. DeMint," The Associated Press, 1/29/07) = OK how could "every action I've taken as the governor that relates to the sanctity of human life..." AND this statement BOTH be true? Another South Carolina campaign stop has Romney uttering "I was always for life”: "I am firmly pro-life… I was always for life." (Jim Davenport, "Romney Affirms Opposition to Abortion," The Associated Press, 2/9/2007) = Oh, of course as the above shows, he's always been pro-life!
Summer 2007 "I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice." Source: 2007 GOP Iowa Straw Poll debate 8/5/2007 = OK...looking at '94 & '02 campaigns, both his public statements, his 2002 voter guide responses, & his actions (which are a major form of expression, ya know!) how could he say he "never said" he was "pro-choice?" Then comes his 8/12/07 interview with Chris Wallace of Fox: "I never called myself pro-choice. I never allowed myself to use the word pro-choice because I didn't FEEL I was pro-choice. I would protect the law, I said, as it was, but I wasn't pro-choice, and so..." = Whatever he was from '70 when his mom ran as pro-abortion senator & he sided w/ her, to 5/27/05, w/whatever interruption he had due to a pro-life altar call in Nov of '04, whatever that was...well, he assures us it wasn't a pro-abortion 'inlook' or outlook 'cause he didn't feel "pro-choice..." = So does that make him a life-long pro-lifer?
December 2007 vs. November 2011 (Pro-treating offspring as research refuse late in previous POTUS campaign vs. now claiming 'never changed...always pro-life' December 4, 2007: Romney: ...surplus embryos...Those embryos, I hope, could be available for adoption for people who would like to adopt embryos. But if a parent decides they would want to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable. It should not be made against the law." (Source: Candidates Reveal Their Biggest Mistakes) Any "inquiring minds" want to try wrapping their minds around how a politician in one sentence mentions "adopting" embryos out (yes, a great thing to mention!) -- but then in the very NEXT breath says if a "PARENT" wants to be "pro-choice" (Mitt used the word "decides" which is what "pro-choicers" say they want) "to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable." Say what???? How about 8-month gestationally-aged infants in the womb, Mitt? Or already-born infants, too, Mitt? If a "parent decides they would want to donate one of those...for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable..." No??? What's the 'pro-life' difference, Mitt? Here you call an embryo's mom&dad "parents" -- but "parents" w/ "research" give-away rights? How bizarre we have such a schizophrenic "candidate!" In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have never changed; we’ve always been pro-life (Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side)
************************************

Details: A Lil 'Meander' Thru 'Romneyville'

(1) Romney's on record saying his "pro-choice" opinions go back to when his mom ran for Senate (1970).
Assessment: [Pro-abortion, then, eh, Mitt?]

(2): "'He's been a pro-life Mormon faking it as a pro-choice friendly,'" Romney adviser Michael Murphy told the conservative National Review last year, says the Concord Monitor (Source: http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061210/REPOSITORY/612100304/1217/NEWS98)
= Assessment: So I guess that made him a below-the-radar "flip" acting like a "flop?"

(3) Romney now invokes in this thread's article a "nuanced stance" about what he was in 1994: He says "Look, I was pro-choice. I am pro-life. You can go back to YouTube and look at what I said in 1994. I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice.

Well, what are the 1994 facts?

FACT a: Romney's wife gave a donation in 1994 to Planned Parenthood...
FACT b: On June 12, 1994, Romney himself attended a private Planned Parenthood event at the home of a sister-in-law of a Planned Parenthood board member where the president of Planned Parenthood recalls talking to Romney.
"Nicki Nichols Gamble, a former president and chief executive of Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts, said today that the photo shows Mitt and Ann Romney at a private home in Cohasset in June 1994." Source: See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1941932/posts
"Gamble said the pic was snapped at an event at GOP activist Eleanor Bleakie’s house and that she “clearly” remembered speaking with Romney at the event." Source: See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1941627/posts
"In fact Romney personally attended the Planned Parenthood event in question on June 12, 1994. Gamble, the President of Massachusuetts Planned Parenthood in 1994, also attended the event at the home of a Republican, Eleanor Bleakie, the sister-in-law of a Planned Parenthood Board member. Both Romney and Michael Kennedy, who appeared on behalf of nephew of Ted Kennedy, attended the event." Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1941240/posts
FACT c: 1994 campaign in Massachusetts "I believe that abortion should be safe and legal in this country. I have since the time when my Mom took that position when she ran in 1970 as a U.S. Senate candidate. I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years that we should sustain and support it, and I sustain and support that law and the right of a woman to make that choice." (October, 1994 Senatorial debate vs. Ted Kennedy)
= Assessment: Mitt the flipster from what most LDS represent

(4): Fast forward to 2001, when Romney needs to reassure Utah Mormons that...he's not really "pro-choice," after all: "I do not wish to be labeled pro-choice." (Mitt Romney, Letter to the Editor, The Salt Lake Tribune, 7/12/01)
= Assessment: So he doesn't want to be known as a "flop" (so what is he?)

(5) “I will preserve and protect a woman’s right to choose, and have devoted and am dedicated to honoring my word in that regard…(Nov. 2, 2002) = Well, now guess what? He's solidly pro-abortion AGAIN! See also: "I respect and will protect a woman's right to choose. This choice is a deeply personal one … Women should be free to choose based on their own beliefs, not mine and not the government's." (Stephanie Ebbert, "Clarity Sought On Romney's Abortion Stance," The Boston Globe, 7/3/05)
= Assessment: Ah, back securely in the "flop" saddle again?

(6): In November of '04, he & his wife had simultaneous pro-life "conversions" where he links it to stem cell research
= Assessment: (So the pro-abortion-but-no-pro-choice-label-please-is-now-a-pro-life-convert?)

(7): On May 27 '05, he affirms his commitment to being "pro-choice" at a press conference. ("I am absolutely committed to my promise to maintain the status quo with regards to laws relating to abortion and choice.")
= Assessment: OK, this is at least a flop from November '04!

(8): What about his gubernatorial record 2003-2006? Mitt later says his actions were ALL pro-life. So I assume somewhere in 2005 or so were so pro-life decisions. ("As governor, I’ve had several pieces of legislation reach my desk, which would have expanded abortion rights in Massachusetts. Each of those I vetoed. Every action I’ve taken as the governor that relates to the sanctity of human life, I have stood on the side of life.")
= Assessment: So, then THESE ACTIONS were not only a reversal of his 2002 commitment, but his May 27, 2005 press conference commitment. So "flipping" is beginning to be routine

(9): April 12, 2006--Mitt signs his "Commonwealth Care" into existence, thereby expanding abortion access/taxpayer funded abortions for women--including almost 2% of the females of his state who earn $75,000 or more. Assessment: (Wait a minute, I thought he told us post-'06 that ALL of his actions were "pro-life?"). Also, not only this, but as governor, Romney could exercise veto power to portions of Commonwealth Care. Did Romney exercise this power? (Yes, he vetoed Sections 5, 27, 29, 47, 112, 113, 134 & 137). What prominent section dealing with Planned Parenthood as part of the "payment policy advisory board" did Romney choose NOT to veto? (Section 3) That section mandates that one member of MassHealth Payment Policy Board must be appointed by Planned Parenthood League of MA. (See chapter 58 of the Acts of 2006, section 3 for details).

(10): On January 29, 2007 during a visit to South Carolina, Romney stated: “Over the last multiple years, as you know, I have been effectively pro-choice." (Bruce Smith, "Romney Campaigns in SC with Sen. DeMint," The Associated Press, 1/29/07)
= Assessment: OK how could "every action I've taken as the governor that relates to the sanctity of human life..." AND this statement BOTH be true?

(11): Another South Carolina campaign stop has Romney uttering that "I was always for life”: "I am firmly pro-life… I was always for life." (Jim Davenport, "Romney Affirms Opposition to Abortion," The Associated Press, 2/9/2007)
= Assessment: Oh, of course as the above shows, he's always been pro-life!

(12) "I never said I was pro-choice, but my position was effectively pro-choice." Source: 2007 GOP Iowa Straw Poll debate 8/5/2007
= Assessment: OK...looking at the 1994 & 2002 campaigns, both his public statements, his 2002 voter guide responses, & his actions (which are a major form of expression, ya know!) how could he say he "never said" he was "pro-choice?"

(13): Then comes his 8/12/07 interview with Chris Wallace of Fox: "I never called myself pro-choice. I never allowed myself to use the word pro-choice because I didn't FEEL I was pro-choice. I would protect the law, I said, as it was, but I wasn't pro-choice, and so..."
= Assessment: That whatever he was from 1970 when his mom ran as a pro-abortion senator & he sided with her, to 5/27/05, w/whatever interruption he had due to a pro-life altar call in Nov of '04, whatever that was...well, he assures us it wasn't a pro-abortion inlook or outlook 'cause he didn't feel "pro-choice..." = So does that make him a life-long pro-lifer?

(14): By December of 2007, you'd think after THREE supposed FULL years of being "pro-life," he'd have his talking points down by then...But no: December 4, 2007: Romney: ...surplus embryos...Those embryos, I hope, could be available for adoption for people who would like to adopt embryos. But if a parent decides they would want to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable. It should not be made against the law." (Source: Candidates Reveal Their Biggest Mistakes) Any "inquiring minds" want to try wrapping their minds around how a politician in one sentence mentions "adopting" embryos out (yes, a great thing to mention!) -- but then in the very NEXT breath says if a "PARENT" wants to be "pro-choice" (Mitt used the word "decides" which is what "pro-choicers" say they want) "to donate one of those embryos for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable." Say what???? How about 8-month gestationally-aged infants in the womb, Mitt? Or already-born infants, too, Mitt? If a "parent decides they would want to donate one of those...for purposes of research, in my view, that's acceptable..." No??? What's the 'pro-life' difference, Mitt? Here you call an embryo's mom&dad "parents" -- but "parents" w/ "research" give-away rights? How bizarre we have such a schizophrenic "candidate!"

(15): Now we come to the 2011-2012 campaign. The Romneys do an interesting Parade Magazine interview (Nov. 2011). Ann Romney is interviewed: In the past you’ve said he’s changed positions only once, on abortion. Was that your doing? No, no, I never talked to Mitt about that. Our personal opinions have NEVER CHANGED; we’ve ALWAYS BEEN PRO-LIFE: (Ann Romney Reveals Mitt's Softer Side)

What? Did you Romneybots & would-be Romney voters not get the Romney campaign memo issued late in 2011: Per Ann Romney, the Romneys have "ALWAYS been pro-life..." They personally "NEVER CHANGED."

Which all means you can't trust a damn word Romney says. He has no personal integrity -- no core values.

67 posted on 06/10/2012 1:42:26 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: TheShaz; Graybeard58
Get off it! So while we are at it. Lets blame Christian's for the Spanish Inquisition and other forms of it over the ages. Lets blame the Jews for the death of Christ. PEOPLE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULDN'T THROW STONES

Get off what? Are you tossin' a stone @ Graybeard?

So...does this mean you don't live in a glass house?

68 posted on 06/10/2012 1:46:08 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: amihow

How many of you swearing to God will say that you intend to vote for Romney and will encourage others to do the same?
____________________________________________

None of the Christians in these threads I hope...

That would be blasphemy to do so...

God is Righteous...

God will not be mocked...

Maybe you dont know any better...


69 posted on 06/10/2012 1:49:51 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (Why should I vote for Bishop Romney when he hates me because I am a Christian)
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To: preacher
Obama is vague on what he is.

(Please read the entirety of post #67 -- and then you tell me if Romney can be any more all over the board as to what he believes about the pre-born...A man who can't even properly define who a pre-born baby is can't be trusted discernment-wise to know either who the TRUE GOD is-- or even the proper scope and sequence of what a POTUS entails)

70 posted on 06/10/2012 1:50:33 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian

So this thread is about Romney and the data about MormonISM is just the vehicle to attack Milt Rominy? ... I stand corrected.


71 posted on 06/10/2012 1:55:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: svcw; Colofornian

Colofornian has increased her attacks on Mormonism since Romney became the preemptive candidtate; going so far as to post the same articles more than once.

Like it or not, Mormonism has become a political issue. If the RF is the only place to discuss it, so be it. but Romney’s religion is a political issue and the articles belong in the news forum.


72 posted on 06/10/2012 1:58:01 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: amihow; svcw; All
How many of you swearing to God will say that you intend to vote for Romney and will encourage others to do the same?

Aside from who he's running against, why would any TRUE conservative want to vote for...
...a pro-abort?
...a socialistic healthcare pioneer?
...somebody's who's appointed 75%+ liberal judges in his track record?
...somebody who supports global warming?
...somebody who's changed his mind three times on embryos?
...somebody who's changed his mind three times regarding employees with a "sexual orientation" as minority status?
...somebody who promised the homosexual Log Cabin group to take up some of their causes in the 1990s?

Almost to a FREEPER, the reason why they say they support Mitt Romney doesn't have to do anything with Mitt Romney.

That...is sad. (And will sequester the turnout come November...no passionate "get out the vote" will be there)

73 posted on 06/10/2012 1:59:55 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Jean S; svcw
Colofornian has increased her attacks on Mormonism since Romney became the preemptive candidtate; going so far as to post the same articles more than once.

Prove it other than what comes out of your empty headedness...ALL of your claims here are unfounded.

In fact, one source that likes to deride me beyond FR said I was posting less articles.

Can't you squareheads keep your narrative straight?

74 posted on 06/10/2012 2:04:02 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian; EternalVigilance
(I've never voted Dem...don't intend to...I do intend to exit the GoP -- either for the Constitution Party or Independent status -- once the Rombots have instituted their liberal big govt socialist healthcare pioneer pro-abort named Mitt Romney...I mean, hey, if I wanted somebody to the left of LBJ, I'd become a Democrat long ago...Jean is showing how pro-abort, how big govt, and how pro-socialist healthcare she is and doesn't like it when people counter that)

May I humbly suggest taking a look at my good FRiend Tom Hoefling (aka Eternal Vigilance)?

A lot of naysayers will hoot and honk about how Tom doesn't have any realistic chance of winning the Presidency, but beyond the usual "One from Column A" ('Rat) and "One from Column B" (RINO), they can't offer up any other candidate that has a better chance, and Tom is a true patriot with principles, standards, a staunch Constitutionalist, and as my tagline says, he's got my vote, and I don't just give my vote to ANYONE.
75 posted on 06/10/2012 2:04:02 PM PDT by mkjessup (Eternal Vigilance (aka FReeper Tom Hoefling) has my vote for President in 2012.)
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To: Jean S; Colofornian

Incorrect.
Colofornian has been exposing mormonism the entire time they have been on FR.
My guess would be that you have just now noticed because your candidate apparently is Romney.
There are no attacks on mormonism there is however exposure of mormonism. If you find their own words, and apparently you do, offensive to them and to you, there is nothing I can do about that.
Exposing mormonism is paramount to your feelings.


76 posted on 06/10/2012 2:05:09 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: MHGinTN
So this thread is about Romney and the data about MormonISM is just the vehicle to attack Milt Rominy?

Actually, just the opposite.

As long as Romney is in the forefront, guess what? (More ops to post about Mormonism)

Certainly, tho...

Mormonism is an issue in and of itself...
...Romney is an issue in and of himself...
...Romney's Mormonism is an issue...
...And Mormonism's Romney is an issue...

Mix and match...take your pick...all answers are correct...Who REALLY wants to separate and parcel that all out...and why?

77 posted on 06/10/2012 2:09:40 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: reaganaut
BTW, talked to another woman who just left the LDS church and came to Christ a couple of months ago. God be praised!

Praise God!

Lurker Mormons...there's still time!

78 posted on 06/10/2012 2:16:19 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Jean S; Colofornian; svcw

Colofornian has increased her attacks on Mormonism since Romney became the preemptive candidtate;

- - - - - - - -

Hogwash, I’m one of the flying inmans and thus get pinged to every thread, the articles on Mormonism have DECREASED since the same time last year.

Get over yourself, Jean, this isn’t about Mitt, it is about Mormonism.

If you don’t like the threads, why are you here other than to shill for a RINO?


79 posted on 06/10/2012 2:18:50 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I have no idea what the Mormon church teaches BUT I did live in Idaho and knew many Mormons. They were all good people, very community oriented, helped non Mormons as often as Mormons, were great friends, parents, and neighbors.

Hey, if you were auditioning to become a god, you'd be on your best behavior, too!

I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

'Twas a certain earlier FR thread on whether Mormonism constituted a cult...and some criteria outlined in that article was compared to Mormonism...

Here...You can compare all these criteria below (+ ensuing posts): CRITERIA #1&2a

The first is behavior control...monitoring of where you go and what you do. The second is INFORMATION CONTROL, such as DISCOURAGING MEMBERS FROM READING CRITICISM OF THE GROUPS.

(Q&A)


QHow does the Mormon church engage monitoring tentacles & info control?


A Well, lookie here. The "lead" of the answer in a nutshell is one key temple recommend question.

Extended explanation:

Mormondom makes a HUGE deal of having access to the Mormon temple. Mormons carry a temple recommend in their wallets, and deem it a sacred document. It gives them access to the temple; without it, there's a huge debate if they could even make it into the highest degree of glory. See 25 posts from this very week where Lds debate the following question:
Source: Ldsfreedomforum.com: 'Is Current Temple Rec. Prerequisite to Get Celestial Glory?

Q Which temple recommend question allows Mormon leaders to "monitor" Mormons and engage in information control" that discourages "members from reading criticism of the group?"


A Temple recommend question #7:


Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

(Ya know, Mormons "affiliate" with FReepers -- and are FReepers themselves! Some Mormons "support" FR. Some "agree" with the worldviews of this site) Temple recommend Qs

From 1991-1995, this was Temple recommend question #6: Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?


Source Interview Questions for Recommends to Enter a Temple

Ah. So the Mormon church for five years was even trying to root out all "sympathizers" of people who don't agree with the Mormon church!!! **********

80 posted on 06/10/2012 2:23:00 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

CRITERIA #2b
The second is INFORMATION CONTROL, such as DISCOURAGING MEMBERS FROM READING CRITICISM OF THE GROUPS.

How else has the Mormon church wielded information control in a 'cultish' manner?

One Example: Lds Conference Talk October 1984-By Ronald E. Poelman-Mormon (OPEN)

Freeper poster Greyfoxx39 mentions: Through the miracle of modern technology, a conference talk focused on the importance of free agency turned into a conference talk focused on the importance of obedience and the fabric of time itself was altered such that the original conference talk turned out to have not ever existed and anyone who thought they had heard something else must have been listening to the influence of evil spirits. The Gospel and the Church By Ronald E. Poelman The First Quorum of the Seventy General Conference October, 1984

Go to the link -- and you can see how the Mormon church magically transforms transcripts of talks they make!!!

Another Example:

The Wasp (original newspaper report):
“Joseph Smith was arrested upon a requisition of Gov. Carlin,… in accordance with a process from Gov. Reynolds of Missouri, upon the affidavit of Ex-Governor Boggs,… the Municipal court issued a writ of habeas corpus according to the constitution of the State,… they left them in care of the Marshal, without the original writ by which they were arrested, and by which only they could be retained, and returned back to Gov. Carlin for further instruction, - and Messrs. Smith and Rockwell went about their business. As to Mr. Smith, we have yet to learn by what rule of right he was arrested to be transported to Missouri for a trial of the kind stated.” (August 13, 1842)

History of the Church (Joseph Smith, Jr. version):
“I was arrested… on a warrant issued by Governor Carlin, founded on a requisition from Governor Reynolds of Missouri, upon the affidavit of ex-Governor Boggs,… the municipal court issued a writ of habeas corpus according to the constitution of the state,… they left us in the care of the marshal, without the original writ by which we were arrested, and by which only we could be retained, and returned to Governor Carlin for further instructions, and myself and Rockwell went about our business. I have yet to learn by what rule of right I was arrested to be transported to Missouri for a trial of the kind stated.” (v. 5, pp. 86-87 – more direct quotes follow this passage)
Source: Plagiarism in Church History ***

81 posted on 06/10/2012 2:24:32 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

CRITERIA #3

The third is THOUGHT CONTROL, PLACING SHARP LIMITS ON DOCTRINAL QUESTIONING.

Here's a sampling from Mormon automaton thought from 1899-->2010!

Circa October 2010:
It's Oct. 24, 2010. Just weeks earlier, the Lds faithful had gathered for one of their two key 'y'all" come meetings in Salt Lake City, which are fed via satellite around the world to Mormons who can't make the trek to SLC. You would have thought that if an earth-shaking announcement needed to be made, it would have been made there. It wasn't. Perhaps too much media glare was on the conference. Therefore, more quietly, Lds leadership sent a world-wide circular letter to all church members. Here's two sources for that:
Source 1: Quit pestering us, church leaders tell membership in letter
Source 2 -- from a Mormon columnist, Robert Kirby: Wrestling with doctrine no match for me

From the first source:
On October 24th, the LDS First Presidency (led by Prophet Thomas S. Monson) wrote several letters that were to be read in Mormon Sunday services around the world. According to examiner.com, the first letter was “likely spurred by Boyd K. Packer’s most recent General Conference talk entitled ‘Cleansing the Inner Vessel.’ Church Headquarters has been receiving an increased amount of correspondence from its members about doctrinal issues. Because of this influx of correspondence, the First Presidency reminded and encouraged LDS church members to utilize their local church authorities – bishops, branch presidents, stake presidents, etc — before resorting to contacting Church Headquarters.” In other words, the Mormon laity was told to quit bothering their church leadership on issues related to doctrine. We can only wonder why the church is apparently receiving so many inquiries.

From the second source (Kirby): With only partial tongue in cheek, Kirby said: "According to the First Presidency’s letter, members with real doctrinal concerns were to seek the counsel of our local leaders — stake president, bishop, Scoutmaster, building custodian, etc."

Why? Well, per Kirby: "The letter...told/counseled rank-and-file Mormons to stop pestering church headquarters for clarification of church doctrine. Apparently some members get so stressed about the finer points of doctrine that they’ll fire off a letter asking for the final word. Church HQ can’t handle the demand...

There ya go. Just as the Wall Street Journal writer said: "placing sharp limits on doctrinal questioning" [Many an Lds historian has commented on this as well...do your own Google search with the words "faith promoting" in quotations...add the words "historian" and "Lds" to the search for better specific results]

Circa 2004:
”We discourage using sources that have not been approved by Church Correlation or the Brethren” (David B. Marsh, Church Curriculum Department, “Approved resources aid Book of Mormon study,” Church News Jan. 3 2004, p. 14)

Ah, that Lds hierarchical automaton bottleneck!

Circa 2000:
Mormon writer Orson Scott Card pens an article entitled Hey, Who are You Calling a Cult?
Ah, such irony! Card writes in the piece: What do they [cults] have in common?...AUTOMATONSs. The members are discouraged from thinking for themselves, and, insofar as possible, are turned into unquestioning "obedience machines."...Far from being robots, most of us Mormons are, by inclination and by doctrine, determined to make up our own minds about everything.
How funny! Keep reading the following comments, and then tell us if "Mormons are...by doctrine, determined to make up our minds about everything?"

Circa 1999:
”…in the Lord’s Church there is no such thing as a ‘loyal opposition.’ One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed” (Lds “apostle” M. Russell Ballard, “Beware of False Prophets and False Teachers,” Ensign – Conference Ed., Nov. 1999 p 64)

[No disagreement tolerated. You cannot speak vs. a Mormon leader…you must, robot-like, be in 100% conformity!!! Elsewise you are deemed “disloyal”]

Circa 1984:
“No true Latter-day Saint will ever take a stand that is in opposition to what the Lord has revealed to those who direct the affairs of his earthly kingdom. No Latter-day Saint who is true and faithful in all things will ever pursue a course, or espouse a cause, or publish an article or book that weakens or destroys faith.” (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Conference Report, October 1984, p. 104)

Ah, such "fragile faith" -- IF EVERY single article or book content needs to go through a legalistic filter of how it's going to potentially effect the end-user -- the reader -- re: if it might be perceived as "weakening" a challenged faith!!!

Circa 1979:
"I would like to tell you something about the way the Church operates from headquarters. We often hear the Church referred to as a democracy, when in reality, instead of being a church where the body is governed by officers elected by the members, the Church is a THEOCRACY..." (First President Lds N. Eldon Tanner, "The Administration of the Church," Ensign (Conference edition) Nov. 1979 p. 42

Well, that makes ya wonder who would occasionally call ultimate shots if a Mormon was in the White House, doesn't it?

Circa 1978-1979:
“Recently, at the Churchwide fireside meeting held for the women of the Church, Young Women President Elaine Cannon made the following statement: ‘When the Prophet speaks…the debate is over (Ensign, Nov.1978, p. 108). I was impressed by that simple statement, which carries such deep spiritual meaning for all of us. Wherever I go, my message to the people is: Follow the Prophet” {First President N. Eldon Tanner, “The Debate is Over,” Ensign, August 1979 p. 2)

For the true Christian, wherever we go, we say, “Follow the Lord Jesus Christ as a disciple of Him” -- not a mere Salt-Lake City-based man [who MUST reside in the Salt Lake City area!]. Our message is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how He came to earth as an ever-living God-man – the ONLY SON of God who bodes no pre-existent brother rivals, died for our personal sins, and was raised to the same glory He shared with the Father before all was (John 17:5).

Circa 1963:
"'The holy Priesthood is a system of laws and government that is pure and holy;...' (JD7:202) - 'a perfect law of THEOCRACY.' (Joseph Smith's Teachings, p. 322)" (As cited by William J. Critchlow, Jr. Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, Conference Reports October 1963, p. 28)

Circa 1960, citing an earlier Lds time as well:
"President Heber J. Grant once said, 'Always keep your eye on the President of the church, and if he ever tells you to do anything, even if it is wrong, and you do it, the Lord will bless you for it…” (quoted by First President Marion G. Romney, Conference Report, October 1960, p. 78).

Circa 1945: "He [Lucifer] wins a great victory when he can get members of the Church to speak against the leaders and do 'their own thinking.' He specializes in suggesting that our leaders are in error while he plays the blinding rays of apostasy in the eyes of those whom he beguiles. What cunning! And to think that some of our members are deceived by this trickery...WHEN OUR LEADERS SPEAK, THE THINKING HAS BEEN DONE. (Spoken @ a convention of Lds teachers: Ward Teachers Message, Improvement Era, June 1945 p. 354)

Circa 1900: "We sustain President Lorenzo Snow as the mouthpiece of God. Therefore, when he has anything to say to us as the mind and will of the Lord, it is just as binding upon us as if God spake personally to us (Abraham O. Woodruff, Conference Reports, April 1899 p. 7)

[Ah, forced feeding like little children] **********

82 posted on 06/10/2012 2:26:02 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

CRITERIA #4:

4. The fourth is EMOTIONAL CONTROL—using humiliation or guilt.

Read the dynamics of what went on with this Mormon woman...then you decide:
My church resignation ****

83 posted on 06/10/2012 2:27:19 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

ANOTHER CRITERIA OF A CULT

Its doctrine need not be conventional—but it SHOULD BE KNOWABLE TO OUTSIDERS. Absent those qualities, an unorthodox religion can descend into something darker.

Well, did you know Mormonism claims...
...Never-married people can never live with Heavenly Father forever?
...That all people are as eternal as their god is -- that all started as an "intelligence" somewhere -- with no beginning? (see D&C 93:29,33)
...But then they ALSO teach each of us had a sort of spirit-babe beginning born to a goddess mom (or goddess harem) on Kolob?
...Brigham Young taught there are many earths and each earth has its redeemer (Jesus Christ cloned?)?
...All the worship in the universe doesn't go to a single God? (It's split up according to however many gods there are)
...The way you can discern a false spirit is by shaking their hand? (D&C 129)
...That the dead have regularly visited Mormons in Mormon temples?
...And that Mormons emphasize the dead visiting Mormons in Sunday School lessons, BYU genealogy courses, and even packet handouts-for-members prior to temple openings?
...It doesn't matter what kind of life you led on earth -- ALL of us, per Mormonism, are going to same "Spirit World" (initially) upon death?
...That a Mormon widow in good standing with the church, if she had more than one husband, can be sealed eternally to each and every husband she had on earth? (Thereby, if Mormons are right, becoming a polyanderer post-death...imagine all those men sleeping with the same woman!!!)
...That Joseph Smith's "prophet"-nephew taught that the way they received new wives in a late 19th-century polygamous marriage was for both man AND wife to go into the temple to receive another wife -- and that the "worthiness" of the already-existing wife was of import as well as the man!
...That the Mormon jesus will re-institute polygamy when he returns, per a Mormon "apostle"?

And if Mormonism wanted to make itself "knowable to outsiders," why are MANY key doctrines NOT to be found in the book they FIRST distribute to "contacts" they're trying to proselytize?

The Book of Mormon has ZILCHO content/teachings about all the "later" developments of Joseph Smith...such as...
* God is a lower-level god who god assigned the "god job" for the Kolob-Earth district
* He was a man who earned his way to godhood; therefore, you can, too
* Temples are for baptizing dead people -- which Mormons hear from time-to-time in those temples (necro-immersing & necromancy)
* Any kind of "pre-existence"
* 3 degrees of glory
* Hell isn't eternal -- damnation just means "damned up"
* Marriage & families are for eternity [imagine the Book of Mormon missing out on that one]
* Sealings & endowments & temple recommends & temple ritual language
* A mom-god or 2 or 3 or a harem of them

Anyway, no wonder there's "misunderstandings" of what Mormonism is! Here they do a bait-and-switch, asking people to pray about stuff that doesn't even record many of their primary teachings!!! It's downright deceptive.

Delacoert posted this: 21 facts everyone should know about Mormon teaching [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]

Let's review a sampling from that list...and as you read them, ask yourself: Are these readily "knowable to outsiders"? Or are they covered up close to the Mormon HQ's chest -- like the cult this author hints it to be!
2. Mormon goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
3. Mormon's teach that women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
4. Mormon's teach men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternal polygamy. They intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be "Heavenly Father" over their own planet!
6. American Indians are descendants of the wicked Lamanites, who were Israelites that God cursed with dark skin.
9. Mormons teach that they need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
10. Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
21. Mormons also teach that there is no salvation without Joseph Smith. They teach that Joseph Smith holds the keys to the Kingdom of God. They teach that Jesus' death on the cross only partially saves the believer. They also teach that people will stand before God, Jesus and Joseph Smith on Judgement Day. *********

84 posted on 06/10/2012 2:28:20 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

CRITERIA #6

Yet EVERY COERCIVE religious group harbors one telltale trait: UNTOWARD SECRECY.

Well, did you know how most, if not all of what was posted in the previous post, is secreted away by Mormon leaders & many grassroots Mormons?

Hence, we see Web headlines like: Mormonism's Real Secret Doctrine

Or, when you have the bizarre temple oaths sworn -- as depicted by Packham and also found here: Why the need for secret death oaths in the LDS Temple Endowment Ceremony? [Secretive Mormon church]

Of course, when you have these kind of bizarre beliefs as posted in the previous post, mum's the word.
Secret, secret, secret
Fulness of the gospel NOT in the Book of Mormon. Secret to prospects - they'd look in vain for the primary Mormon teachings to be taught there.
Original "old plates" Joseph supposedly found. Secreted away.
The founder, Joseph not telling wife Emma about women he had affairs with (Fanny & others) 1831 & beyond. Secret.
Mormons not putting the polygamy doctrine in writing until the 1850s. Secret.
Bloody victims' clothes & orphans from Mountain Meadows Massacre, 1857. Secret for two years.
Mountain Meadows Massacre culprits. Conspired amongst each other to never tell. Secret.
Mormonism openly false 19th century teachings like Adam-is-god and blood atonement. Unacknowledged as former teachings. They wish these were a secret.
Mormon polygamists hiding out from the feds in 1880s. Secret hideaways.
Lds Plural marriages 1890-1910. Secret.

Still today:
Lds temple ceremonies. Secret.
Lds weddings in temples. Secret.
Secret underwear power. Very secret.
Mormons believe thousands of deceased Mormons practicing polygamy in another realm. "Open" Secret.
History not "faith promoting" to Lds church and former leaders. Tendency to tuck away. Secreted away.
fLDS families -- the "living daguerreotype" of what 19th century Mainstream Mormon families were often like -- tucked away in out-of-the-way communities. Treated like the crazy aunt to lock away in the basement closet.

No wonder a BYU history prof wrote a book, "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View." "Magic" is a sub-category of the occult. And what does the word "occult" mean? (Yup, Latin for "hidden" -- as in secret).

Note how BYU even conceded the occultic worldview Mormon foundational premise of Quinn's book here: BYU Review of Early Mormonism and the Magic World View

85 posted on 06/10/2012 2:31:09 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: enduserindy; reaganaut
I never saw any freaky rituals or cult like activities.

CRITERIA #7a:

...the group's finances SHOULD BE REASONABLY TRANSPARENT.

Lds Inc hides its BILLIONS. (No transparency at all!)

"In 1999, authors Richard and Joan Ostling estimated the church's assets at nearly $30 billion in Mormon America: The Power and the Promise. They expanded on research by John Heineman and Anson Shupe, authors of "The Mormon Corporate Empire: The Eye-Opening Report on the Church and Its Political and Financial Agenda," published in 1985."
Source: http://www.skeptictank.org/gen4/gen02306.htm **********

CRITERIA #7b:

FINANCIAL CONTROL translates into levying ruinous dues or fees...

A Key way Mormons impose financial control is through coercive calls to tithing. Now Mormons aren't the only ones to mention tithing. So what's distinctive about Lds in this regard? First of all, I'm not saying that Lds are the only ones to manipulate giving from their members -- and, of course, it can range from subtleties to strong "thou shalts" to more than that. But let's review how Mormons are distinctive in this area -- with specific examples, shall we?

First of all, how do Mormon "prophets" define the "Law of tithing" -- otherwise known as the "Law of Consecration"?

Well, they're rather bold in calling it, in effect, their own Internal Revenue Service:

Lds definition of 'tithing': “The law of tithing is the law of revenue for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
Source: Teachings of the President of the Church: Joseph F. Smith
Obedience to the Law of Tithing

Secondly, if you look at Lds.org like I did -- every single entry they have for carrying out their various add-on "Laws" -- guess what two add-on "laws" get the most mentions by Lds, Inc?

It's near a tie:
(1) The Law of Tithing
(2) The Law of Chastity

That's interesting, too...'cause you would think that based upon what Joseph Smith said, the Law of Baptizing dead people would be #1. But it's not stressed more than the above (& doesn't rank above many other Mormon "laws").

Joseph Smith: “The GREATEST RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS WORLD that God has placed upon us is to seek after our dead.” (Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 356)

Mormons are you obeying this? Are you doing three-year missions to the dead to outdo your two- year missions to the living?

If I was a gambler, I could probably wage a million $ that not a single Mormon could name EVERY law mentioned by Lds general authorities on Lds.org. [What a crying shame, 'cause even Joseph Smith said: “We cannot keep all the commandments without first knowing them, and we cannot expect to know all, or more than we now know unless we comply with or keep those we have already received.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 256.)]

And Mormons are shooting for the highest degree by way of perfect obedience??????

For the Christian, do we follow a "law" of tithing?

No. Giving is an inside-out thing, done from the heart, encouraged by God as part of being godly.

Mormons? They make it an outside-in lock-up, imposed upon from without -- or you're out (of the temple, that is). No chance for special "callings" in the church; don't get to see your son or daughter married in the temple. No "forever family." No living with Heavenly Father forever. You could pay 9.99% of your income, and still be disqualified from all the above...because you broke their man-made "law."

And let's look thirdly at First President of the Mormon church, Marion G. Romney, as Romney cites Brigham Young, who in turn was citing another Mormon general First President (Grant)...anyway, all three are in effect, preaching the "Mormon Prosperity 'gospel'":

President Grant at that time was a young apostle, and in his conference talk he said: “I wish to bear my testimony to the Latter-day Saints that all of us who will obey the commandments of God will be prospered in the land. Sacrifice doth bring forth the blessings of heaven. I bear my testimony to the truth of what Brother Lund has said today, that IFthe people will pay their tithes and offerings, they will not only be blessed in their material affairs, but they will be abundantly blessed with increased outpouring of the Spirit of the Lord. …“I bear witness to you, as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, that MATERIAL and spiritual prosperity is predicated upon the fulfillment of the duties and responsibilities that rest upon us as Latter-day Saints. [Then this.] I have rejoiced exceedingly that the debts which the people owe to the Lord in tithing have been forgiven by the Prophet of God. But I want to say to those who are able to pay those debts, it will be a great deal better for them if they will do so, notwithstanding, they have been forgiven.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1899; italics added.)
Source: The Blessings of an Honest Tithe

Lds leader Heber J. Grant: Prosperity comes to those who observe the law of tithing. When I say prosperity I am not thinking of it in terms of dollars and cents alone, although as a rule the Latter-day Saints who are the best tithe payers are the most prosperous men, financially. (Gospel Standards, p. 58.)

Btw in the same Marion G. Romney message above, he said: From this scripture it is apparent that tithing is a debt which everyone owes to the Lord for his use of the things that the Lord has made and given to him to use. It is a debt just as literally as the grocery bill, or a light bill...

So, Mormon leaders manipulate their flock both through the "prosperity" 'gospel' AND they treat it as a bill to be paid!

Finally, let's hit a few Joseph Smith's revelations:
* “Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion," (D&C 119:1) [Ah, Mormon socialism)
* ‘Verily, it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall NOT BE BURNED at His coming. For after today cometh the burning,’ that is, at the coming of the Son of Man, ‘for verily I say, tomorrow’ – that is, at the Lord’s coming – ‘all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts.” (D&C 64:23, 24.)

(Nothin' like a lil' threat of hellfire, eh?)

“The law of tithing, as embodied in the revelations referred to, [in Sec. 119], is an immutable decree of Jehovah to His people, and admits of no evasion by those who would enjoy the blessings of the faithful on the land of Zion, or be classed among the righteous, and avoid the burning at the coming of our Lord.” (Principles of the Gospel, pp. 174-177.)

86 posted on 06/10/2012 2:32:27 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian

Wow, spamming, way to make your point.
Sheesh


87 posted on 06/10/2012 2:35:26 PM PDT by Jean S
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To: Jean S
(Well, I could have put it all in one post to meet your attempted satisfaction ... as if that would EVER become a worthy goal... but I was thinkin' of the readers...'twas easier to break it up)
88 posted on 06/10/2012 2:37:31 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Jean S

(Tell us, Jean, how do you like supporting & being an apologist for a cultist? In particular one who claims he’s growin’ up from little divine embryo to a full-grown god. Who’s next on your candidate bot list? A Scientologist? A jihadist?)


89 posted on 06/10/2012 2:39:34 PM PDT by Colofornian (Mom when I grow up, I want 2B like Ike. Mom when I grow up, I want 2B a god from Kolob like Mitt.)
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To: Colofornian
Romney's MormonISM is not an issue regarding his fidelity if elected president, at least not to me, though I do oppose MormonISM because it is an heretical anti_Christian cult. Apparently Mitt Romney is too treacherous for you because he is a member of this cult. Past experience with Mormons in office (Harry the undertaker Reid being the obvious exception) tells me they are not treacherous though they are misguided on the issue of their religious beliefs.

Let's stop parsing this issue, Colo, you are using MormonISM to attack Romney. Wheres some want to oppose MormonISM and try to keep it out of the political arena because the religion of either of us or him does not belong int he political arena so long as the religion is not a source of treachery, the way Islam would be a source of treachery since that religion teaches its adherents to always lie to the infidels and destroy all who do not bow to the lesser moon goddess at the beginnings of that religion.

It appears to me that since you use every MormonISM thread to attack Romney, you're misusing the religion forum to play political fast and loose. If you actually think you're going to awaken folks to the cult of MormonISM and its heresies by using the discussions of same as a political tool, you will fail to be taken seriously because that is fundamentally dishonesty and folks avoid such like the plague. Of course, you 'millage' ( a tax term) may vary, but I still have a right to speak what I believes is the truth now emerging on the matter. At least so far ...

90 posted on 06/10/2012 3:03:00 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Colofornian

I am not a Romney fan, but you answered your own question about why to vote for him. Because of who he is running against.


91 posted on 06/10/2012 3:08:10 PM PDT by amihow
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To: Colofornian

I was wondering this morning about when media folks will start following Romney to church and be stopped dead still at the entrance becuase everything inside is secret! Amazing!

I wonder what their articles would look like.


92 posted on 06/10/2012 3:08:47 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: mimaw

Jews don’t claim to be Christians.


93 posted on 06/10/2012 3:09:43 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: Colofornian

Its the only big religion whose HQ is not foreign.


94 posted on 06/10/2012 3:13:41 PM PDT by NoLibZone (I trust Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Cain, Perry, Bachman : I trust their judgment on their 2012 pick.)
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To: NoLibZone

Scientology a “religion”?


95 posted on 06/10/2012 3:18:33 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: MHGinTN

wow


96 posted on 06/10/2012 3:24:00 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian

People came to the Colonies because they wanted to get away from the religious persecution back in their own country.


97 posted on 06/10/2012 3:24:43 PM PDT by NoLibZone (I trust Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Cain, Perry, Bachman : I trust their judgment on their 2012 pick.)
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To: NoLibZone
Who's being persecuted by posting the words of the leaders of mormonism? You?
98 posted on 06/10/2012 3:28:03 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

You reject the reason of religious persecution as a reason many came to this nation.

Are you a Christian?

Yes, I have to ask.


99 posted on 06/10/2012 3:43:35 PM PDT by NoLibZone (I trust Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Cain, Perry, Bachman : I trust their judgment on their 2012 pick.)
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To: NoLibZone
So is posting the words of mormon leaders persecution?
No
Yes
Why?
100 posted on 06/10/2012 3:46:47 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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