I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian [Mega hit piece on Christians]

New York Times ^ | June 12, 2012 | David V. Mason

[greyfoxx39]

................... Mormons seem to be everywhere.

I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian.

-SNIP-

In addition, these Christians had to defend their use of additional scripture and their unconventional conception of God and explain why they were following a bumpkin carpenter from some obscure backwater. Early Christianity’s relationship with non-Jews was even worse. Roman writers frequently alluded to rumors about the cannibalistic and hedonistic elements of early Christian rites. One after the other, Christians went to the lions because they found it impossible to defend themselves against such outrageous accusations. They did eat flesh and drink blood every Sunday, after all.

Eventually, Christianity grew up and conceded that it wasn’t authentic Judaism. Lo and behold, once it had given up its claim to Judaism, it became a state religion — cannibalism notwithstanding — and spent the next 1,700 years getting back at all the bullies who had slighted it when it was a child.

-SNIP-

Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.

[RedMonqey]

John 3:18 Believe it or don’t.

So Mormons aren't covered under John 3:18? They say they believe in Christ.


But practicing Jews don't believe Jesus was the Son of God. Guess you won't be voting for any Jews in the future, either.

[truth_seeker]

“That’s WHY “all” conservatives need to STOP Myth’s “presumed” GOP 2012 Nomination ...”

Hey general, lay out the plan to do that. And the percent probability for success.

[Patton@Bastogne]

.


Political "Death of A Salesman" : Romney's Pathetic Self-Implosion before Tampa (Vanity)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2880059/posts



================================================ .


2012-05-04


I haven't yet located Jim Robinson's post entitled "Frank discussion re our loss to Obama/Romney and the future direction of FR and tea party movement".

I'm sure that it's content was great.



I would like to be very careful in my next few words.

To summarize:

"Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will be the 2012 GOP Nominees in Tampa".



I am neither an alleged spiritual prophet, or a pollyana madman.

I have worked much in politics, including with Pat Buchanan, Dole-96, Bush-43 (Florida "Ballot-Chad" Protestor") and Newt Gingrich in Florida this year.

Something in my gut intuition tells me that the O-Romney GOP E-RINO Campaign is in a state of "quiet fear and desperation", albeit in a stealth mode ...

Forgive me for the historic analogy, but the situation has a peculiar feel about it, similar to Gen. Patton's vague suspicions that the German Wermacht was "up to something" just prior to launching the 1944 Battle of the Bulge".



Yesterday (Thursday, 2012-05-03) a news report (via Fox News, of course) mentioned something about Condi Rice being a "strategic win" Vice Presidential pick for Romney.

That's peculiar, because Condi Rice has repeatedly said that she's not the LEAST bit interested in such a position ... ever. That's been Condi's staement for a couple of years now.

Why would Romney be floating such an idea (so very publicly, at the national news media level) ... when he's been crowned the presumptive "King Romney" by E-RINO insiders such as Karl Rove (ad nauseum) ?


Is O-Romney frightened by a recent (unknown) event ?


What about the Marco Rubio (Florida Hispanic "Wonder Boy") discussions about being Romney's VP ?

Have they secretly floundered ?

Did "Rock Star" Senators Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan see polling data that says that even if he becomes a Southern Baptist (next week), that Romnet is TOAST with the GOP Conservative Base ?



A peculiar quiet has settled-in among the GOP Conservative Leadership ... Newt, Sarah, Santorum, Perry ...

I do not sense that this is the "Quiet of the Vanquished" ... but rather the same "quiet before the storm" that saw General George Washington's suprise defeat of the Hessians at Trenton, a CRUCIAL turning point of the Revolutionary War ...

Newt Gingrich repeatedly discussed this EXACT metaphor during his (active) campaign ... especially the "Victory or Death" aspect ...

From the British Empire's perspective (or Fox News), wasn't Gen. George Washington's conventional military campaign "suspended", "defeated", "financially broke with furious creditors" ... with Gen. Washington personally criticized with having a "monsterous ego", "grandious delusions of victory", needlessly calling on his troops to fight a "lost cause from the very beginning" ?



I can easily imagine Fox New's Shepard Smith (and the other recent GOP talking-head) ... telecasting this Fox News report about Gen. George Washington's defeat ... and that of the American Tea Party, as well ... using the above words ... as a part of the British Empire's "official" propaganda messenger boys ...

Coincidentally, these were (approximately) the VERY SAME WORDS that Fox News and Townhall used to describe Newt Gingrich's political decisons over the past few days ...

Again ... those Fox News derogatory terms for your convenience ...

a campaign "defeated", "financially broke with furious creditors" ... with Newt Gingrich having a "monsterous ego", "grandious delusions of victory", needlessly calling on his troops to fight a "lost cause from the very beginning" ...



We Free Republic Conservatives are well familiar with the literary phrase "Who is John Gault ?"


Let me ask "you" (gentle reader) a question ...

Who is Newt Gingrich ?

Who is Sarah Palin ?

Who is Rick Santorum ?

Who is Rick Perry ?

Who is Herman Cain ?

Who is Michelle Bachman ?



Do any of these names conjure up character-descriptions like "weak", "afraid", "cowardly", "visionless", "foolhardy", "phony", "money-grubbers", "liars" ???

Hardly, and quite the opposite !

For me, every one of these men and women (from my perspective) ...

Conjure up words like "courage", "intellect", "strength", "character", "faith", "VISION" ....



So what's my premise here ?

Again ...

"Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will be the 2012 GOP Nominees in Tampa".



The O-Romney campaign won a Pyhrric Victory with his 650-whatever delegates "won" for Tampa ...

A tactical and strategic fool ... akin to Hitler's military genius (/sarcam-off) ...

O-Romney has butchered has own (potential) Infanrty Corps the Tea Party and Free Republic Conservatives) when he "carpet-bombed" his GOP Competitors (Newt, Santorum, Perry, Cain) into leaving the field ...



O-Romney "never once" articulated a "single" original "conservative" political idea the entire 2012 primary season ...

Not a "single" one ...

Obama defeats Romney in November 2012 ... period.

Marco Rubio, Colin Powell, Paul Ryan, Juan McCain, Condi Rice ... all know that ...



When Dan Rather (hail to Feeeper Buckhead) yesterday (2012-05-04) said that Romney might defeat Obama ... it's high-time to get the Bravo-Sierra knee-high waders on ...

O-Romney is toast.

And even Mittens knows it ... that explains the "desperation" move of publicly (begging) for Condi Rice to (please) come to Mitt's rescue ...

And Condi ain't buying Mitt's baloney ...



"Successful" (presumed) presidential candidates ARE NEVER BEGGING for Vice Presidential mates ... three (full) months before the GOP Convention's door opens ...

Never.

Romney is in "strategic" level trouble. Like the German Army at Stalingrad, he's sooo screwed ...



What happens next ? Funny you ask ...



“The Plan”



1) Romney’s Hollow-Support:


No one really likes Romney (including George & Barbara Bush) …

The GOP E-RINO club (and Rush Limbaugh) only selected Romney because the other 7-8 GOP candidates wouldn’t drink their Bain Capital “betray America” kool-aide …

Supporters of Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman … loathe Romney

The only folks who voted for Mittens were 75-year old-school “Gerald Ford” Republicans absolutely terrified that they were loosing all their stock-market savings … and plus they don’t really use the internet (FreeRepublic, et al) … all these folks watch is ABC and CNN …

Of course, lots and lots of Mormons voted for Romney … which is why Romney dominated in Utah and Arizona … and got clobbered in The South …

Evangelical Christians … the political “boots-on-the-ground” Infantry of any successful GOP Campaign … are quietly scared to death over this “Mormon Used Car Salesman”



2) “Genuine Conservatives” REFUSE to Play the Juan McCain Game again in 2012:


Tea Party Members …supporters of Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman … loathe Romney

Again … the “political campaign infantry” of the other 7-8 candidates believe (with good reason) that Romney’s $$$ bought endorsements, and Willard’s “despicable” lying-through-his-teeth, and finally, Willard’s “scorched-earth” TV ad campaigns against Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry … and (almost) Rick Santorum in Pennsylvania …

Make all these potential GOP voters … and campaign workers … “vomit” at the mention of Mitt Romney …

The last time the GOP E-RINO establishment told us “Patriots” to fall on our swords for “The Party” (may it’s unholy pro-choice name be blasphemed forever) … they gave us that ...


(fill-in-the-blank) Juan McCain … who literally gave Obama the U.S. Presidency on a Silver Platter.

Not again, baby … certainly not in 2012 !



3) “The Secret Patriot Resistance” is Already Born:


OK … so Romney won a lot of delegates … but still 500 short … just like Hitler surprised the French in 1941 …

What to do, Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman ???

Suspend your campaigns. Offer a “token” quasi-soft endorsement of Mittens.

Do NOT give your delegates to Romney.

The Goal ?

Willard “stops” the negative TV ads against everyone.

All the campaign money Romney still has left (aircraft, bullets, bombs, ships) sit “useless” in a warehouse.

No more casualties … for the “good guys” … Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman

And they quietly wait for the surprise counter attack … in Tampa …



4) Mitt Romney’s “Tsunami of Severe Verbal Campaign Gaffes” … until August 2012 …


Every week Romney says something STUPID …

Every week Romney inches (crawls) back to his LIBERAL POLITICAL ROOTS … trying to win-over the political Holy Grail … the (highly over-rated “Independents) …

Every week … genuine Conservatives QUIETLY decide in their hearts … “There’s no way in Hell I’m voting for that LIBERAL idiot”

Every week … genuine Christian Conservatives QUIETLY decide in their hearts … “There’s no way in Hell I’m voting for that Mormon Anti-Christ cult member”

Every week … Conservatives in California, Texas and 12 other (Primary Voting) states that the GOP E-RINO Club just “tossed-aside” … will QUIETLY decide in their hearts … “There’s no way in Hell I’m voting for that E-RINO Pubbie Imposter”



5) Ten Days prior to the GOP Convention … Sarah Palin’s D-Day Landing …


On that day … Sarah Palin … the great conservative Peace Maker will assemble the entire group of 2012 GOP Candidates … except Mitt Romney, of course …

Sarah Palin … and … Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman …

Sarah Palin will declare Mitt Romney’s Candidacy a “complete fraud” … their ammunition will be all the Romney Campaign Gaffes and (new-old-again) “Liberal Mitt Romney” political positions …

Sarah Palin will (in her speech published on YouTube to avoid Fox News Censorship) … will personally nominate the entire GOP Ticket …

Sarah Palin will nominate Newt Gingrich for President …

Newt Gingrich, when it’s his (choreographed turn to speak after Sarah Palin) … will ask Sarah Palin to be his Vice President …

As Sarah Palin returns to the podium to accept, she will them “suggest” that Rick Santorum be US Attorney General

As Rick Santorum gives his “informal” acceptance speech, he will “suggest” that Rick Perry be the Energy Secretary …



6) An American Conservative Movement “On Fire Again” …

Over the next ten days before the Tampa Convention’s Opening Bell …

All of Romney’s uncommitted delegates will be invited to meet with all the above folks …

Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Santorum, Perry, Cain, Michelle Bachman …

Mitt Romney can’t run any more campaign ads, because the primaries are all over … Romney’s Bain Capital Campaign Money is “useless” …



7) The 2012 Tampa GOP Convention in August …


Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin win the GOP nomination on the “first ballot” …

Mitt Romney is forever “politically exiled” to the GOP’s Planet Kolob … to join his loser friends like Juan McCain and Bob Dole and Jeb Bush …



8) The 2012 Presidential Election …

Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin win the election in a “Ronald Reagan Landslide”





.

[truth_seeker]

“As we see every day on FR most Christians do not have the faintest idea of what mormon doctrine and beliefs are...yet.”

You cannot extrapolate views of “most Christians” from what you see on FR every day.

Most would agree that FR is not representative of the entire country, of even of “most Christians.”

[Friendofgeorge]

If they vote Democrat, they are NOT Christian, if they support a liberal Supreme Court, they are Not Christian, that`s basically what I am saying.

Do they believe that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life, and that NO man cometh unto the Father but through Him.

Do they believe that Jesus is the ONLY way to God, and that homosexuality is a abomination, and that abortion is the murder of God`s children, and to vote Democrat in any way shape or form, is to be part of the crime.

That`s how I see it, do they cringe at the term BORN AGAIN, do they speak of the Christian right as morons and hateful?

That`s what I am talking about.

[svcw]

mormons beleive in the lds jesus, which is not the Biblical Jesus.
The lds jesus is a progressed created being, not sufficient for (lds) salvation.
The Biblical Jesus is eternal and sufficient for Salvation.

[Friendofgeorge]

“Mainline” doesn’t include the growing numbers of Evangelical Christians.

I thought it went without saying that Evangelical Churches were NOT part of the mainline churches. I am a Evangelical Christian.

However the so called Evangelical Churches that come from a liberal Democrat point of view I have no use for, they still support abortion/homosexuality and the removal of Christ from classroom/public square and are clearly NOT Christian.

Anybody that votes Democrat, supports the evils of the Liberal Supreme Court, they can NOT have it both ways

There are some “phony evangelicals” that support Obama

[old republic]

<>And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

I just wanted to point out that the ambiguous nature of the passage you quoted above does not necessarily mean that Mormons can only eat meat in times of winter or famine. The original version of the Word of Wisdom published as Section LXXX in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants punctuates the passage you quoted above a little differently than the version you provided above. It says:

"Nevertheless, they are to be used sparingly; and it is pleasing unto me, that they should not be used only in times of winter or of cold, or of famine."

One comma really can change the meaning of a whole sentence. If you put a comma after "not be used," then it implies Mormons can only eat meat in the winter, but if you drop the comma, suddenly it means that Mormons should eat meat not only in winter/famine, but in other times as well. The modern version of the Word of Wisdom you used puts the comma after "not be used," implying you can only eat meat in winters etc, but the original 1835 version of the D&C does not use a comma there at all, implying that you can eat meat at times outside of winter/famine so long as it's eaten sparingly. You could thus argue that that this insertion of a comma in the later editions of the Doctrine and Covenants amounts to a doctrinal change in the LDS scriptures.

By the way with regards to Catholics not eating meat on Friday, the Catholic Church does not claim, that the Scriptures say that you can't eat meat on Friday. The Church says that it is spiritually helpful to do penance every Friday to remind Catholics of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. The normative way the Church has asked Catholics to do this is by abstaining from all flesh, meat on Friday as both an offering of penance to Almighty God for their failings and as a reminder of the Cross. Under present Church practice, Catholics may also substitute this abstention from meat with other acts of love/sacrifice as well.

[Friendofgeorge]

Just an afterthought....A simple question could be asked at every Church...Is Sarah Palin their Sister in Christ?

The answer would be very telling

[muawiyah]

Slight reminder ~ we’ve had 5 other presidents who weren’t Christians.

[DannyTN]

You are confusing Christianity with politics. And you are also defining Christianity along a very narrow set of beliefs and actions that are not a valid test of Christianity.

The right test of Christianity is if they agree on the nature of God and the nature of Salvation. Christians can hold all manner of heritical and anti-scriptural ideas but still be Christian, and still be saved by their faith in Jesus.

Christians don't come to full maturity as soon as the accept Jesus. The fruit of the Spirit takes time to develop and ripen. So do the virtues of Godly wisdom.

I could make the same argument you are making against Christians who vote Democratic by pointing out that the Republicans are nominating a man who isn't a Christian and whose actions supported abortions and gay marriage. Are people not Christians if they vote Republican now? It's not a valid test.

Besides major denominations don't vote. And you said most mainline denominations aren't Christian.

if I understand your logic, you are judging entire denominations by the assumption that since America elected a democrat President, that the major denominations that the electorate belong too, must be non-Christian.

There is good and bad in both parties. The issues of abortion and gay marriage are a semi-litmus test for me that pushes me to the Republicans. But right now the two candidates are so close and so anti-what I believe in, that I'm not likely to vote for either. Party adherence is a horrible way to judge people's Christianity.

So too, the term Born Again means different things to different people. Different denominations are like different churches, they each have their own personalities, just like the 7 churches of revelations. Some have serious faults, some have heresies, some are luke warm, probably none are without fault.

Don't judge people's salvation by such a narrow and inappropriate litmus test. The litmus test should be the gospel, not their adherence to a political party, not even their stand on the major social issues of the day, though I agree the scriptures are clear on what their stand should be. But I can see a saved person who isn't that familiar with the scriptures being confused by manipulative arguments. That won't affect their salvation.

Don't add to the salvation message by saying you must accept Jesus, but you must also be against abortion and be against the democrats because they are for abortion. Unfortunately it appears the Republicans are too based on their candidate's past actions.

There are serious flaws in some of the logical leaps you are making.

• It doesn't necessarily follow that if America elects a democrat, that the majority of America's denominations also voted democrat.
• It doesn't follow that if a person voted democrat that they are for abortion and homosexuality. They may way other factors more important. Some of them may have viewed the war as immoral, and weighed that heavier than these other issues.
• It doesn't even follow that if a person is for abortion or homosexuality that they are not saved. Though I certainly agree that if they study scripture they should eventually change their positions.

[metmom]

Did the ‘god’ part of Jesus reside within the human body of his?

Yes and no. I don't think anyone is capable of understanding the exact nature of Jesus and how the divine and human were interconnected.

Did he pray to an external entity or to something within his body?

Yes.

Does not prayer establish an order - subordination?

Yes, it does.

Philippians 2:3-11 3 Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. 4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[muawiyah]

Elsie, COFB is HIGHER ~ even without abortion. They treat nothing ~ and most of the deaths result from conditions everybody else survives.

[muawiyah]

Soembody’s gotta’ fill the seats.

[.45 Long Colt]

I need no reminders. I’m certain most of our presidents have been Christians in name only. I would prefer an actual Bible-believing born-again Christian, but I don’t expect that. I would give my vote to someone who loves liberty and strives to be honest and do what’s right. I won’t regurgitate the litany of Romney’s many public sins, but it’s quite clear he does not meet even that low standard, a standard many non-Christians meet.

[muawiyah]

Wonder if they’ve sent that letter to my cousin Steve. He thinks he’s head of the only true Mormon church.

[muawiyah]

The gods forbid eh?!

[muawiyah]

These guys keep coming up with these false dichotomies and i'll be darned if i can tell the difference ~ sometimes one of them is a crazed maniac, sometimes he'll be an ignorant savage, and sometimes just a baby killer.

It's actually very difficult to separate them in the mind.

[muawiyah]

A little bit lengthy but probably as close to the truth as we can get at this moment.

TWO THINGS: (1) UVA President fired, and (2) Story runs about Obama losing 20% of his 2008 supporters.

So, why would that be significant. Well, first off the ol'gal at UVA was involved years back with Elisabeth Warren (running for Senate in Massachusetts) in a project that raised suspicions of ACADEMIC FRAUD ~ they even got a federal grant from the NSF. A cover up was run (according to Breitbart) and no one ever saw the final report to the University of Texas ~ and all at once someone has that report and it says "Nope, do not pass go" ~ something like that.

I can't believe these two were at University of Texas, but Fur Shur our boy from Texas would shore 'nuff like to be a VP or something ~ and I bet he could lay his hands on whatever we need from that school ~ in exchange for the coin of the realm ~ state funding!

You just know Newt knows what this means ~ for the UVA President (she got fired), and Elizabeth Warren (she's not going to get elected) and for Mitt Romney ~ there's some angle in here that ropes him in ~ probably as Governor of Massachusetts an people he appointed ~ maybe some of them were on the Texas academic review body that did the alleged cover-up. Hmm. No doubt there'll be more on that. But all of that dropped like a 10 pound roast shad simultaneously.

Then, the Obama losing 20% support ~ as many of you know, and are sick of, I've been recurringly posting responses to threads about polling and political theory that note that to win Obama has to lose at least 15% of the vote he got in 2008, and Romney, with no support from Conservative field troops whatsoever, will need to make at least what McCain got in 2008, or if Obama loses only 8% or less, Romney will have to make what George Bush got in 2004.

I think the 20% drop is one of those "Hey, it's happening, all is well and good, vote Romney ~ feel free to campaign for him ~ we don't need to get as many votes as Bush or McCain to beat him".

That is it's a lightly sourced propaganda story but my analysis is getting read by Democrat "truth squaders" whose job is to read what's going on at Free Republic.

Did you know that if you use the same string of words in a dozen different posts you will probably move your "thought" to the top of the list on Google.com?

That's the reason to keep posting the analysis in different ways ~ Google.com makes it important. The Democrats actually act on it ~ first with propaganda to pacify us.

No, Obama is not losing 20% of his support ~ not yet. That's what we have to make so. And second, there's a whopping big scandal creeping along that's going to blow numerous Massachusetts politicians out of the water ~ Democrat and Republican alike. It has something to do with the Sullivan/Warren affair.

[greyfoxx39]

You cannot extrapolate views of “most Christians” from what you see on FR every day.

You are welcome to your opinion of FReepers.