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Improvising Illinois priest barred from pulpit
stl today ^ | July 10, 2012 | Tim Townsend

Posted on 07/11/2012 6:23:41 AM PDT by NYer

An Illinois priest forced out of his parish by Belleville's Catholic bishop for improvising prayers during Mass will no longer be able to preach in public as of today.

The Rev. William Rowe said Monday that Bishop Edward Braxton has suspended him and removed his "faculties," or license to practice ministry under church law. The move has been associated in recent years with the punishment of clergy accused of sexually abusing minors.

Rowe, the pastor of St. Mary Catholic Church in Mount Carmel, Ill., has not been accused of abuse, but he has clashed with Braxton over altering the liturgical prayers of the Roman Missal — the book of prayers, chants and responses used during Mass.

Last month, St. Mary's parishioners learned that Braxton had officially removed Rowe, their pastor of 18 years. But a separate letter from Braxton recently informed Rowe, 72, that not only would he have to leave the church, but that he could not preach in public anywhere.

Rowe said he could no longer celebrate public Masses or preside at weddings, funerals or baptisms. The only exception, Rowe said, involves a dying person; he can still hear a confession, baptize or anoint that person.

Rowe was scheduled to witness a wedding Saturday — and four others over the summer — but won't be able to preside. He also will not be able to preside over a funeral Wednesday for an elderly St. Mary's parishioner.

"That's very hard for the family," Rowe said. "I'll be there, but I can't participate."

(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Worship
KEYWORDS: il2012
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To: spunkets

The Council of Jamnia was after Christ. At the time of Christ, there was no set list of which books constituted “the Scrolls” or “the Prophets.”


121 posted on 07/12/2012 2:33:32 PM PDT by dangus
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To: spunkets
I see.

I hope so.

122 posted on 07/12/2012 2:34:14 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: spunkets
No. Bibles were not used, as I pointed out

They wouldn't need to, as the printed Scripture readings are provided.

123 posted on 07/12/2012 2:36:10 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: spunkets
and folks never did bring their own as a rule.

There is no such rule. Some people do bring them, but it is not necessary as the printed Scripture readings are provided.

124 posted on 07/12/2012 2:37:55 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: narses; spunkets
There's generally no Bible in a Catholic Church.

Interesting statement.

My church is set up to enter the 'gathering area' or small hall and then enter the church itself through internal double doors. On the table just outside the doors is a family sized St. Joseph edition leatherbound (impressive - I bought one - from the church), as well as a pile of softcover NAB and Jerusalem Bibles. There might even be a D-R Challoner or two, I forget.

I carry the NAB on a variety of electronic devices and have for many years carried the D-R going back to the early Palm Pilots. I go online for the NAB RE including usually when I respond with Bible quotes here or elsewhere.

Spunkets, you may have gotten an outlier on the data chart.

The parish where I grew up (heavily Irish and Italian) probably had enough Bibles in the entranceways to supply every family that attended.

Let us not be contentious in our journey towards God.

125 posted on 07/12/2012 2:43:56 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: spunkets
The Bible contains what is referred to as the Old Testamnet. The Catholic version of the O.T. doesn't agree with the O.T. held by the Jews, or as I pointed out — others.

The Catholic Bible contains the entire OT as written in the Septuagint, which was at the time of Christ, the most widespread and utilized Scripture by the Jews - including Jesus and the Apostles.

126 posted on 07/12/2012 2:47:55 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: dangus
"The Council of Jamnia was after Christ. "

The Jews don't believe in the Council of Jamnia. That makes it an imaginary council, with imaginary motivations and results. IOWs, it's fiction.

127 posted on 07/12/2012 2:49:09 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets
"The Jews don't believe in the Council of Jamnia."

Any discussion of the Jews as single, monolithic block that all agree on anything is specious. In the first century there were at least four major competing Qahals each with a different canon; the Pharisee, the Sadducee, the Essene and the Hellenistic.

Peace be with you

128 posted on 07/12/2012 2:56:48 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law
"Any discussion of the Jews as single, monolithic block that all agree on anything is specious."

None of them believe in the Council of Jamnia. None of them believed in original sin either.

129 posted on 07/12/2012 3:25:50 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

Well, there are some historians who are skeptical... but precisely because there’s no mention of a Hebrew canon until after c. 135! What we do know is that at the time of Jesus, there were loads of versions of the Old Testament. And the extant ones (Septuagint, Dead Sea Scrolls) include the deuterocanonicals. Back to you.


130 posted on 07/12/2012 3:42:03 PM PDT by dangus
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To: spunkets
"None of them believe in the Council of Jamnia"

Agreed, the existence or importance of the council is largely a figment of Protestant desire to establish a legitimacy for the exclusion of the Deuterocanonicals.

What we do know is that Jewish authorities specifically rejected the Gospels as new revelation and with them the books of the Deutercanonicals.

Peace be with you

131 posted on 07/12/2012 4:23:55 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Yavneh became important when Yochanan ben Zakkai received Roman permission to establish a Jewish religious school there, and it became home to what would have been the Sanhedrin had the Temple remained.

Claiming textual variants meant variant canons is like claiming the JPS translation of the Bible, or the Soncino Chumash, is authoritative.

Jewish canon had been closed for several generations at least by this time, so much so that teachings of the school became sharply differentiated as the Mishnah. No one would have dared change the established books except to correct obvious textual errors in specific copies.

Interesting point: The late Book of Daniel was not considered a book in ‘Prophets’, but is instead included in the ‘Writings’.


132 posted on 07/12/2012 5:31:05 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: spunkets
No fewer than 4 priests commented on the appropriateness of the particular reading chosen and that it was permitted by the bishops per the priest's judgment of appropriateness.

As I tried to explain previously, neither you, nor I, nor any number of priests, gets to override what the Missal says.

I don't care if 150 priests "commented on the appropriateness of the particular reading chosen". If it's not in the Missal, it's not one of the readings permitted.

That's called "holy obedience". You'll recall that a lack of obedience was what got Satan in trouble.

133 posted on 07/13/2012 5:36:43 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: spunkets; Campion
As I tried to explain previously, neither you, nor I, nor any number of priests, gets to override what the Missal says.

And that's what this thread is about. You improvised, spunkets, and it appears you are trying to blame the Church for the problems it caused you.

What was the purpose of the prepared notes you forgot?

134 posted on 07/13/2012 9:25:06 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: BipolarBob

Without Paul... you’re going to have a very thin Bible.


135 posted on 07/13/2012 9:52:22 AM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: NoGrayZone
or the true Body and Blood of Christ”.

So you willingly engage in cannibalism?

136 posted on 07/13/2012 9:57:50 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker; NoGrayZone
So you willingly engage in cannibalism?

Do you willingly engage in symbolic cannibalism?

137 posted on 07/13/2012 10:45:26 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites; NoGrayZone

NGZ said he believes that it is the literal body and blood of Jesus, not a symbol. Therefore my question is still valid.


138 posted on 07/13/2012 11:40:03 AM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker
Therefore my question is still valid.

What is your answer to my question?

139 posted on 07/13/2012 11:57:40 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: Titanites

No, I do not.


140 posted on 07/13/2012 12:05:49 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is, it is the only answer.)
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