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Jesus Christ as Elder Brother [Mitt's ancestor originated Lds idea treating Jesus as mere brother]
BYU Studies ^ | 2006 | Corbin Volluz

Posted on 07/18/2012 5:07:41 AM PDT by Colofornian

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often refer to Jesus Christ as their elder brother. This expression of endearment appears in sermons, lessons, and publications...The title is used enough that some might think that elder brother is one of the many titles attributed to Christ in the scriptures, but nowhere do the scriptures use this expression in reference to Jesus. Nor can the idea that Jesus is our elder brother be ascribed with certitude to the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith...

Beginning in 1844 we find the first instances in which the Church leaders use the phrase elder brother...to refer to Christ. These six recordings were all recorded contemporaneously. June 22, 1844, Orson Pratt...

The concept that Christ is the elder brother...does not appear to have been actually articulated and recorded until 1871 by Orson Pratt:

Now, who is Jesus? He is only our brother, but happens to be the firstborn...how is he the firstborn? Because he is the eldest--the first one born of the whole family of spirits and therefore is our elder brother.

...It is apparently Orson Pratt, then, who should be credited with the first attempt to...use the title elder brother as applied to Jesus. It was Orson Pratt who first recorded the concept that Jesus is "our Brother" shortly before the death of Joseph Smith, and Orson Pratt who first articulated that Jesus is all humankind's elder brother in the spirit...

Section 93, an 1833 revelation to Joseph Smith, allows implicitly the idea of brotherhood with Jesus: since human spirits are eternal, these spirits were with God in the beginning just as Jesus was.

SNIP

To those not familiar with the plan of salvation, hearing Jesus Christ called an elder brother might be misunderstood as a diminution of Christ's high status...

(Excerpt) Read more at byustudies.byu.edu ...


TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: elderbrother; inman; jesuschrist; lds; mormonism
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To: Deb
Pretending this is all about "Religion" shows what dishonest fakes and phonies you all are.

HMMMmmm...

A thread titled Jesus Christ as Elder Brother [Mitt's ancestor originated Lds idea treating Jesus as mere brother] is considered by you not to be about religion.

An article from a RELIGIOUS based university is NOT about religion; according to you.

You live in a STRANGE world!

101 posted on 07/18/2012 2:31:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Perhaps those who object to this discussion so strenuously, do so because they are wearing undergarments that are too tight...I'll bet they AIN'T the 'special' ones.

Only about 15% of all MORMONs get to wear THOSE!

(No WONDER the other 85% are so darned GROUCHY all the time!)

102 posted on 07/18/2012 2:33:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
I don’t wear underpants.

DANG!!

ANother slow pitch.

Shall I swing or let it pass?

103 posted on 07/18/2012 2:35:25 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
I don’t wear underpants.

No "Forever Family" for you!!

 

Temple Recommend Questions



1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

104 posted on 07/18/2012 2:36:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Tennessee Nana

How do you know that EITHER of those adjectives apply?


105 posted on 07/18/2012 2:37:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
So there were no issues between Christians and Mormons before Mitt decided to run for President?

Interesting...

106 posted on 07/18/2012 2:48:44 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Deb; Godzilla
Oh, yes, there were ever so many other threads in the Religion forum. Really. Honest. And I totally believe you.

(cough) Zilla did point them out to you, and you seem to be able to find the RF on your own to verify...

But it is fun to toss the occasional stink bomb into this vat snakes and watch you all slither around and hiss.

How simply delightful for you, you have found something to do in the Religion Forum that matches your Theological knowledge and abilities...

107 posted on 07/18/2012 2:54:59 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: Deb; All
{We haven't had this much undergarment banter on a religion thread since the last Mormon "magic underwear" thread somebody posted}

Well, Deb 'tween your underthings fashion show, your "stink bomb" & your fiery posts, you bring the "tainment" portion to these "infotainment" threads...and keep the bump count higher...What's next? Longerie descriptions? Cup size TMI re: your bras [if you where one]...and your tagline...would you utter such a thing about Jesus?

109 posted on 07/18/2012 3:17:41 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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Comment #110 Removed by Moderator

To: ejonesie22

Well that post isn’t bout me...NOT an ex-MO...family & ancestors lds...I never was...also never been divorced...when they reach these posters seem to overreach...& go from gossip to false slander...


111 posted on 07/18/2012 3:22:25 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: IWONDR

See post #97


112 posted on 07/18/2012 3:51:11 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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Comment #113 Removed by Moderator

To: IWONDR

Is this what u commonly do @ home? Talk smak behind their back? Next time you falsely gossip your mind-reading about another poster, ping them


114 posted on 07/18/2012 4:26:02 PM PDT by Colofornian (Saying Mitt would keep past political promises is like prophesying that Gumby won't bend anymore)
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To: Colofornian

I have often wondered why with the hundreds of threads started everyday on FR there are a few FR people who are obsessed with getting on Religion Forum and not contributing to the discussion but repeating the something over and over “you are just mormon haters”, “you are obsessed with mormonism”, “you just want to destroy Romney”.......their obsession with with the Religion Forum and posts about religion is starting to get scary.


115 posted on 07/18/2012 4:43:41 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: T Minus Four

oh poo. are you stumping for Obama


116 posted on 07/18/2012 4:52:06 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: IWONDR
Heaven save America from 4 more years of BO.

Save?

HOW>

By having a HERETIC be Leader of our Country??

How is THAT supposed to be an improvement?

117 posted on 07/18/2012 6:06:13 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
This is an educated fool, unfortunately trapped in a cult.

I've seen NO evidence of this!

118 posted on 07/18/2012 6:07:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dalebert; T Minus Four
oh poo. are you stumping for Obama

That's almost as good as playing the RACE card here on FR!!

'bout as effective; too.

119 posted on 07/18/2012 6:08:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion

OK guys that exchange is funny.


120 posted on 07/18/2012 6:35:50 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: dalebert

religion is fair game in the RELIGION FORUM!


121 posted on 07/18/2012 6:36:34 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: svcw

“I have often wondered why with the hundreds of threads started everyday on FR there are a few FR people who are obsessed with getting on Religion Forum and not contributing to the discussion but repeating the something over and over “

I have wondered about that for years.


122 posted on 07/18/2012 6:37:17 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

Well, blue at least you recognize yourself, that is the first step.
Remember this is the Religion Forum.


123 posted on 07/18/2012 7:26:56 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Elsie
When I was in the service, I was an American AMONG many brethen: the Thai citizens of Southeast Asia.

Read the verse again. It's not parallel to your example. You weren't firstborn among those many Thai brethren, because then you would have been part of their family.

124 posted on 07/18/2012 7:37:07 PM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion

You want to emphasize firstborn, then go for it.

I’ll emphasize among, as it STILL applies.


125 posted on 07/19/2012 1:23:57 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Campion
 

Strong's Concordance for firstborn

Word: prwtotokoj

Pronounce: pro-tot-ok'-os

Strongs Number: G4416

Orig: from 4413 and the alternate of 5088; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):--firstbegotten(-born). G4413

Use: TDNT-6:871,965 Adjective

Heb Strong: H1060 H6363 H7218 H7223

    1) the firstborn
    1a) of man or beast
    1b) of Christ, the first born of all creation

=================================================

Strong's Concordance for among

Word: en

Pronounce: en

Strongs Number: G1722

Orig: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc.:--about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition. G1519

Use: TDNT-2:537,233 Preposition

Heb Strong: H3789

    1) in, by, with etc.

126 posted on 07/19/2012 1:35:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Colofornian
I'm happy to bump your threads. That's why I'm here, so, you're welcome.

Its you kids who are so obsessed with underpants. "Underpants" is a great comedy word. I LOVE when I can use it. (Comedy Tip: anything coupled with "pants" is comedy gold)

I'm not sure what "longerie" is or what your "Jesus" reference was about, but then I don't understand very much of what you guys talk about. (RE: my bra situation, FReep mail me)

All in all, keep the anti-Mormon stuff coming. People are really warming to it and you're making a difference, at least that's what the Black Sheep of my family, Commie Tommy, says. He's a lurker, a staffer for Bernie Sanders and he's your biggest fan, so, fantastic job at wrecking what was once the best conservative harbor on the net, from your pal, Commie Tommy.

127 posted on 07/19/2012 1:48:22 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: svcw
FYI and speaking for myself, I enter FR on the "latest posts" page and its impossible to ignore the incendiary anti-Mormon headlines there. Strange for a political site. I'm sure most people who respond aren't even aware these are in the Religion Forum, especially when "Romney" is so often referenced.

Its also impossible to ignore that the rancid personalities who swarm and cackle here, in the "Religion Forum", are rarely EVER found on the numerous threads exposing Obama's daily horrors against America and her Constitution...and I'm not talking about you, I like you very much and I know you're sincere.

128 posted on 07/19/2012 2:04:37 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: RaceBannon

so sorry ..this turned up in my pings and didnt notice what forum it was in. oops! nevermind :)


129 posted on 07/19/2012 2:21:31 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Deb

true. The Christian Forum doesnt seem very Christian.


130 posted on 07/19/2012 2:24:15 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Deb; svcw
Its also impossible to ignore that the rancid personalities who swarm and cackle here, in the "Religion Forum", are rarely EVER found on the numerous threads exposing Obama's daily horrors against America and her Constitution...

lil Debbie must be a very shallow reader to make this statement.

131 posted on 07/19/2012 2:25:41 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Deb; Colofornian; Jim Robinson
All in all, keep the anti-Mormon stuff coming. People are really warming to it and you're making a difference,. . . . . . so, fantastic job at wrecking what was once the best conservative harbor on the net, from your pal, Commie Tommy.

You have a problem with the content or direction of FR - talk to JR about it, I'm sure he'll warm to your views /sarc

132 posted on 07/19/2012 2:28:22 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Deb

I would have responded sooner but I fainted after the complement and just now recovered.......... ;-)


133 posted on 07/19/2012 2:44:09 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Deb
"Underpants" is a great comedy word.

I'm partial to "Tinkle".

Cracks 'em up every time!

134 posted on 07/19/2012 2:44:41 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: dalebert

Hey, D.
Do you have a link to the “Christian Forum”?
I looked all over the site (FR) and can not find it in the side bar or on any other lists.
Thanks.


135 posted on 07/19/2012 2:46:54 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

Nope cant find a link to any Religion forum ...hmmmmm


136 posted on 07/19/2012 2:53:51 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: dalebert

Well, since you are on the Religion Forum.......
here is the link:
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/religion-forum/index
When you find the Christian Forum link, let me know.


137 posted on 07/19/2012 3:02:48 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: svcw

smart A..its showing up in my pings.


138 posted on 07/19/2012 3:10:05 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Servant of the Cross
Words with a "P" and words with a "K", guaranteed laughs.

"Look out! There's a pickle in your underpants!!"

Try not to laugh. Can't be done.

139 posted on 07/19/2012 3:16:03 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Deb
Try not to laugh. Can't be done.

Unless you're a mormon ... or a mormon exposer.

140 posted on 07/19/2012 3:20:13 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: dalebert

So twice I asked you for a link to the Christian Forum on FR, this will be the third time.
Do you have one or not?


141 posted on 07/19/2012 3:24:09 PM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: Colofornian

http://bible-truth.org/jesusbro.htm


142 posted on 07/19/2012 3:43:25 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political party's in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Deb
All in all, keep the anti-Mormon stuff coming. As you wish:

Okay, so I have a serious question for ya, brother:
 
That IS a good question, and, a somewhat unanswerable one as well.
 
When DOES the TRUE begin to be replaced by the false?
 

Can I subsitute (a strawman alert!) a quite familiar scenario instead?
 


You meet someone that sweeps you off your feet and fall madly in love with them.  They are all you ever wanted in life and they seemingly fulfill every need you have; with joy and happiness you'd only barely imagined.
 
Time passes and you are all snug and comfortable in your relationship.  Life is GOOD!
 
Then, some little things creep into your relationship that just don't feel right.  Small cues that something is not quite as it should be.  You quickly think that you're having a bad day, or a week, and work to straighten out YOUR mind about these feelings.
 
But other things begin to disturb you.  The patterns of your life begin to change.  Your partner is not as close as they used to be.
 
You find scraps of paper with phone numbers that are unfamiliar.  You catch your mate in fibs about time and location.  Unfamiliar odors occasionly cling to their clothes. 
 
You're a brunette and find blond strands of hair on his coat.
 
But; the children are crying and need your attention; so you rationalize all of this away.
 
At a later date, your friends seem to be asking strange questions about how you guys are getting along, hinting at things you do not want to hear; mentioning an old girlfriend.
 
Finally; you make the dreaded confrontation!
 
Voices are raised; shouts scare the kids.   He promises that it is not what it seems, and that he'll do better if you give him a chance.
 
But, unfortunately, the TRUTH becomes known.  The friends that you've been avoiding were right.  You have been lied to.
 

NOW what do you do?  3 kids; no job, no prospects, middle-aged.  WHAT do you DO?
 

WHY God?  Why ME??  I did everything right; didn't I???
 

Should I leave? To go WHERE?
 
Should I stay in this mess; for the kids sake; knowing that it'll never get any better?
 

... a serious question indeed...
 

143 posted on 07/19/2012 3:49:08 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
Its also impossible to ignore that the rancid personalities who swarm and cackle here, in the "Religion Forum", who are ALWAYS found on the numerous threads exposing Obama's daily horrors against America and her Constitution...

It's impossible to ignore the uninformed personalities who post and posture here, in the "Religion Forum", who are ALWAYS found in the numerous threads exposing MORMONism's horrors against Jesus and His WORD, who must think that a 'religion' that denigrates CHRIST and His finished work is a valid one.

144 posted on 07/19/2012 3:54:29 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Deb
"Look out! There's a pickle in your underpants!!"



Nah...

I'm just glad to see ya!

145 posted on 07/19/2012 3:57:23 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: dalebert

I never make mistakres when i post.... :)


146 posted on 07/19/2012 3:57:54 PM PDT by RaceBannon (I wont vote for a gay marriage marxist gun grabber, or vote for Obama, either)
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To: SZonian
 

Note what Mormon prophets and church officials have had to say about the matter.

From their writings it is clear that they believed and taught that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.

Bruce R. McConkie, in his work The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, Pg.407-408 under the heading " Lucifer and the Law of Temptation" has the following to say;

 

147 posted on 07/19/2012 4:00:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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To: Elsie
Now, that's funny! Well done!
148 posted on 07/19/2012 4:00:55 PM PDT by Deb (Beat him, strip him and bring him to my tent!)
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To: Elsie

149 posted on 07/19/2012 4:01:34 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: Deb

Aw...  shucks...
 


150 posted on 07/19/2012 4:32:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going)
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