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Does anyone dress or show up for Church on time any more? (Vanity)
NoKoolAidForMe | 07-23-12 | NoKoolAidForMe

Posted on 07/23/2012 12:09:39 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe

Yesterday at mass, a man came in with two girls (both of an age where each could stand and speak on their own.) ten minues after the liturgy began.

He stood along the side aisle wearing shorts, an advertisement tee shirt, and sneakers and leaned one foot against the wall of the church while standing. There were seats available.

When we stood for the gospel, he then decided to sit down. He did not pray with the girls nor follow along with the missal. He held one girl up for the entire mass, talking throughout with her feet on the top of the pew in front of him, even through the announcment that asked parishioners to show up on time and dress appropriately for mass and set a good example for our children. He bounced her up and down, kissing her repeatedly throughout the entire liturgy.

I write this diatribe because I am not sure if I am being unreasonable in expecting people to show up on time for mass, dress in attire that does not look like you are going to play baseball in the park, and behave in a respectful manner (you know, don't talk in church.)

Whatever happened to manners? Does anyone else notice this?

TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: vanity
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

My grandfather was a poor Mexican laborer his entire life, but he never neglected to wear his best coat and white shirt for Mass.
Poverty (as opposed to destitution)is no excuse to dress like a slob on his way to the beach at Mass. I wear a uniform everyday at work, so I don’t have a lot of everyday clothes. I have one pair of dress slacks that I wear only to Mass. I buy all my shirts for Mass at the second-hand store—for $4 or $5 bucks you can get a nice collared shirt that beats hell out of sloppy t-shirts and wife-beaters. It isn’t THAT hard to dress up a notch for one hour a week. Sure God looks at your heart—but where’s your heart if you can’t inconvenience your precious self to show Him how honored you are to be in His house at least once a week? Don’t most of us dress up for lesser reasons, like parties and nights out at a nice restaurant? Especially for Catholics who are receiving the Lord of the universe in Holy Communion, isn’t Mass a special occasion?
I live in the hottest part of the country in an area that is only second to Salt Lake City in it’s concentration of LDS. As much as I disagree with their doctrine, you never see anyone dressed as a slob or a harlot go in their meeting houses, no matter how hot it is. Catholics have so much more in the Mass than these people have in their meetings—shouldn’t we act like it?
We have two new young pastors who just came from Spain and they are absolutely scandalized by the immodesty and irreverence shown by those coming to Mass in our parish. They have launched an initiative to bring some decorum and respect back to Mass. Here is a video they have played before all the Masses:
Reverence 2012

101 posted on 07/23/2012 2:44:02 PM PDT by fidelis (Zonie and USAF Cold Warrior)
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To: Crusher138
Well said! That's the best post of this thread.

Some of the people who have posted on this thread probably would not mind if folks showed up at church naked, and would say it is "judgmental" if anyone were to object.

102 posted on 07/23/2012 2:47:48 PM PDT by stillonaroll (Nominate a non-RINO in 2012!...uh, too late, never mind.)
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To: momtothree
An’ I thought how one stained glass window, from this church, would feed his family for years.

Johnny lost me right there.

First, it's simply not true. Stained glass is expensive, but not that expensive.

Second, that stained glass was made by somebody, and it did feed his family for some period of time. Should the glazier have said 'take this job and shove it?' I think NOT.

Third, the money for that stained glass was given for the purpose of buying it by somebody who earned it.

Fourth, I can't say for sure about the particular church Johnny visited, but most that I'm aware of would be happy to help the wino. Mine would. It also wouldn't have turned Johnny away, so there's that too.

Fifth, the whole song reeks of smarmy snobbishness. Ick.

To live forever in heaven with you: well, I’d sure hate to be in this crowd.

Yes, indeed ... I thank thee Lord that I am not like other men ....

But I’ll tell you: I believe a man is judged by what’s in his heart, not what’s in his bank account.

Yet that's precisely what he's doing.

103 posted on 07/23/2012 3:00:54 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
Manners have NOTHING to do with the way people behave in a house of worship. It's all about respect for God and how we worship Him. I attend a Baptist church and most of the under 70 crowd look like they are going to to the beach. I believe that one should wear their very best whatever that might be to Sunday worship.
104 posted on 07/23/2012 3:16:54 PM PDT by Coldwater Creek (He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will j rest in the shadow of the Almighty Psalm 91:)
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To: Raycpa

The Divine Liturgy is not a parable or about parables.
It is worship, and modesty,dignity and respect are demanded.

Since the priests and hierarchy refuse to do their job of instructing those that somehow never knew this,the trend of hot pants,sheer tops,tube tops and all other forms of immodest dress will continue.

105 posted on 07/23/2012 3:22:19 PM PDT by catroina54
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

I’m noticing that church culture is changing.

No longer do we sing, “come, just as you are to worship” but mean “come, dress formally and act stiffnecked”.

Our ancestors used to dress up on Sundays to go to church. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact we were an agrarian society. A man spent 6 days plowing the fields and stepping in cow poop. If he came just as he was, the place would stink up fast. No doubt, the pastors pushed heavily for parishioners to show proper respect and to at least smell right. So our ancestors cleaned up, dressed up and showed up. Today, many parishioners spend 5 days dressed up like our ancestors were for Sundays, so the need is to dress down to a comfortable level.

The example you gave was on the extreme, especially with the fact the man was talking through the sermon. As has been said on this thread, the man was probably there just for his child. He showed as much respect as he has, which is not much.

The word “worship” comes from the english word ‘worthship’ and its connotation is that we show God what He is worth to us. For that man’s case, God is not worth much to him, but God is beginning a good work on him and will be faithful to complete it. Check back on this individual 5 years from now and let us know his progress.

106 posted on 07/23/2012 3:24:49 PM PDT by Kevmo ( FRINAGOPWIASS: Free Republic Is Not A GOP Website. It's A Socon Site.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg


107 posted on 07/23/2012 3:32:19 PM PDT by LUV W (Never forget...WE have THEM surrounded! ~ Rush Limbaugh)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

Let’s look at this scenario —

If you were meeting Jesus, would you have good manners?

Would you be dressed appropriately?

Men in suits with a tie?

Women in dresses with hopefully a mantilla or hat?

Or do people no longer care to wear their best for God?

I always wear a dress or skirt and a blouse.

108 posted on 07/23/2012 3:33:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
Does anyone else notice this?

No because we were behind four Sisters in full habit at Latin Mass.

109 posted on 07/23/2012 3:36:24 PM PDT by pbear8 (the Lord is my light and my salvation)
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To: catroina54

This Divine Liturgy?


15 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.”

16 Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17 At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’

18 “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’

19 “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’

20 “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’

21 “The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’

22 “‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’

23 “Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24 I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’”

110 posted on 07/23/2012 3:40:55 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: steve86

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

111 posted on 07/23/2012 3:48:01 PM PDT by Manic_Episode (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
How to Address Priests and Religious: Titles and Signs of Respect [Ecumenical]
[CATHOLIC CAUCUS] The Mass in Slow Motion – The Procession and Entrance Song
What Do You See at (Catholic) Mass?)
Cardinal Arinze's Mass Etiquette 101

112 posted on 07/23/2012 4:00:04 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stars & stripes forever

Don’t let a post on Free Republic take away something that has been a comfort to you.

113 posted on 07/23/2012 4:21:11 PM PDT by Rastus
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It’s about reverence. Nothing more and certainly nothing less.

We used to be a reverent society. Now we’re more interested in what the right fit is for us. If you can’t show up on time for church and can’t show up without looking like a beach volleyball player, how is your worship supposed to be reverent?

And if your worship isn’t reverent, where else will you compromise? We should do all we can to remind ourselves that whenever we step into a church we don’t go there for ourselves — we go for God. What we get in return is the closeness with Him that makes worship a truly enriching, and miraculous, experience.

114 posted on 07/23/2012 4:42:01 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

The stained glass window, IMHO, is symbolic for displaying religion instead of living that religion. Paycheck’s song, (again IMHO) illustrated that scrubbed faces, nice clothes, shiny cars are not displays of religious values. A church that turns a lamb away based on hair length, clothing styles, facial hair etc... is simply a country club of sorts. I love the song and always have. How many front row Christians... there every Sunday for all to see.. are rotten Christians the other six days a week? I’ve known quite a few and I am sure my church isn’t different than any others. Paycheck’s song asks the question about being religious and presenting oneself as religious when they aren’t.

115 posted on 07/23/2012 5:21:56 PM PDT by momtothree
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Exactly....and honoring the One who made us. Some forget that He is the audience who must be pleased with our offerings of worship, NOT us!

Want to be “entertained”? Go to a theatre or zoo!

God will not be mocked.

116 posted on 07/23/2012 5:51:29 PM PDT by LUV W (Never forget...WE have THEM surrounded! ~ Rush Limbaugh)
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To: Rastus
Don’t let a post on Free Republic take away something that has been a comfort to you.

Thanks. I did learn a lesson about letting go of things that day.

117 posted on 07/23/2012 5:57:59 PM PDT by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord!)
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To: notaliberal
go to their boss’s party dressed in daisy dukes

The difference is that bosses judge and God doesn't.

118 posted on 07/23/2012 7:32:18 PM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, Trust few, and always paddle your own canoe)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
There are a couple of things at work here.

First, we have become a nation of slobs. Of this there is no denying. So the family in question probably never even gave a second thought about being the slobs they are. Especially after a couple generations of slovenly behavior and attire by just about everybody at Mass. There should be more done to encourage people to present themselves in a respectful manner, but unless society as a whole decides to reverse its slide towards slobbery, this is probably a losing battle.

Second, when people behave like that at Mass it can be an indication that they are not regular church goers. So their showing up late and goofing around might actually be an improvement for them--a step in the right direction. It could be something good, and if they continue to show up for Mass, perhaps the example set by the rest of the congregation will have an effect on them as they notice that they are the only goof balls.

Another point to consider:

Distracting behavior interferes with other people's attempts to worship god, and as such it is rude and inconsiderate. So I guess according to some folks Jesus doesn't mind if one is rude and inconsiderate to others.

119 posted on 07/23/2012 8:10:20 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (I miss Harriet Miers.)
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To: MosesKnows
go to their boss’s party dressed in daisy dukes

The difference is that bosses judge and God doesn't.

Or it could be that one is considered an important event and the other isn't.

120 posted on 07/23/2012 8:13:19 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (I miss Harriet Miers.)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe
Attend a few daily Masses if you don't already; they give you the strength to bear the Sunday ones. Also we frequently attend a TLM on Sundays, which is like being in heaven (no exaggeration). There are few if any distractions, as the Mass itself is more respectful all around. Link
121 posted on 07/23/2012 8:48:56 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

At least the poor guy tried to bring the kids to church. Maybe you should get a “crying room” for the kiddies in your church, or start a “baby sitting service” downstairs so that tots can go there while the parents pray.

I used to stand in the back of church all the time, so I could zip out when my beeper went off ...

122 posted on 07/23/2012 9:06:15 PM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

Maybe the priest should start saying the Latin mass, or at least say the Mass as if he really believed that Christ was present in church and the bread and wine really did become Jesus.

A little reverence might make people respect God’s presence at church. And if you have a prayer group, maybe they should pray for God’s inspiration to come down on all those attending church.

As for clothing: The bad dress is a sign of spiritual dryness, a symptom, not the disease. The answer is to pray for them.

123 posted on 07/23/2012 9:24:16 PM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: NoKoolAidforMe; Chode

Now that is wild! Did he even know he was at a church or did he think he was at the local park?

124 posted on 07/23/2012 9:33:20 PM PDT by Morgana (This space for rent. Cheap.)
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To: sportutegrl

There are women who still wear the chapel veil in a catholic church. Mostly women over 50.

125 posted on 07/23/2012 9:36:19 PM PDT by Morgana (This space for rent. Cheap.)
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To: Morgana
child molester???
126 posted on 07/23/2012 9:36:34 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

come to Poland....

127 posted on 07/24/2012 10:12:41 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Chode

No just a father who can’t/won’t be a parent and make the kids behave in church.

128 posted on 07/24/2012 10:27:16 AM PDT by Morgana (This space for rent. Cheap.)
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To: NoKoolAidforMe

Yeah, i noticed it several years ago and that was partly why i quit going to church.

Men wearing shorts so loose that if they did not keep their knees together well...

These were rare happenings but when the minster and a couple other men showed up in shorts at a church social that was too much for me.

129 posted on 07/24/2012 10:40:57 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: LUV W; All

IIRC, Southern Baptist congregations are famous for dressing for service, with ladies in dresses and hats and gents in suits or, at least, jackets.

It is certainly possible to go overboard with dress, showing the sin of pride, but I don’t feel that that is the issue here.

What I am hearing is a call for modesty, for humility, and reverence, as a show of respect for the God who created us, and the Lord jesus, who died to redeem us.

Modesty - clothes should not distract, or draw attention, or inspire untoward thoughts; behavior is quiet so as not to disturb others’ thoughts, meditation, and prayers.

Humility - All are equal in the eyes of the Lord; clothes are not to be flashy or make us stand out. It is our respect for Him, and our knowledge of our own fallen natures, that inspire us to attend. Our clothes are to cover our nakedness as we seek redemption together.

Reverence - We are in a house of worship, where our families become one Family. It is not about us, but about Him, and immodest clothing tickles the vanity and pride of the wearer, and inspires sin in the heart of others (Anger? Lust? Envy?)

While it is laudable that people attend service rather than not attend, we, as a family, as a community, as a congregation, and as a nation would perhaps find true happiness in the self-discipline required to dress appropriately for services.

Football jerseys, flip-flops, tee shirts, and halter tops reflect adolescent cravings (IMHO). We do our children no service by lowering ourselves to their level; far more children are harmed by the soft bigotry of low expectations than by upholding high standards.

I have found the Tridentine Mass late in life, and it is an epiphany. Contemplation of the Divine is encouraged; People dress modestly, children are quiet (or gently disciplined), and the distractions of the modern world are largely left outside the Church door.

Ann Barnhardt has some great riffs on feel-good megachurches


130 posted on 07/24/2012 4:02:14 PM PDT by bt_dooftlook (Democrats - the party of Amnesty, Abortion, and Adolescence)
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To: Coldwater Creek

I would argue that manners is about respect for others (not to be confused with “etiquette”) and should be present in all of our social interactions, including FR postings. So, manners have everything to do with how people behave in church. Or perhaps you are saying that currently manners are not in evidence at your place of worship...;)

131 posted on 07/24/2012 4:11:04 PM PDT by bt_dooftlook (Democrats - the party of Amnesty, Abortion, and Adolescence)
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To: bt_dooftlook

We don’t all “dress up” to worship, but we also don’t dress inappropriately in shorts, crop-tops or low-cut tops. Common sense SHOULD tell a person what would be disrespectful to the Lord. just as you said.

132 posted on 07/24/2012 4:23:21 PM PDT by LUV W (Never forget...WE have THEM surrounded! ~ Rush Limbaugh)
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Really? Do you really believe God is impressed by our dress? And that He feels "disrespected" if we are dressed "innappropriately"?

What does our dress have to do with our salvation? And the finished work of Christ on our behalf? What does our "dress" have to do with God's offer of reconciiation based on 2 Cor. 5:14-21? We all stand naked before Him, He sees our hearts, and He knows our thoughts. The only thing that is DISRESPECTFUL to the Lord is to reject the death burial and resurrection of His Son on OUR BEHALF, for our own "beautiful" clothing of self-righteous works.

133 posted on 07/24/2012 4:41:41 PM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: smvoice

Yes, I DO think we can dishonor God by inappropriate (ie. slutty/exposed)) dress....and speech...and worship. ....and general behavior.

134 posted on 07/24/2012 3:59:59 PM PDT by LUV W (Never forget...WE have THEM surrounded! ~ Rush Limbaugh)
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To: sportutegrl
A Scottish friend of mine married the daughter of a minister (he performed the wedding ceremony).

There were only two people at the service wearing a hat - the piper..... and me.

135 posted on 07/24/2012 4:31:00 PM PDT by Churchillspirit (9/11/2001. NEVER FORGET.)
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To: jettester
BTW, who get’s the “job” of determining what “proper” is?

136 posted on 07/24/2012 5:44:35 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: BO Stinkss

“Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.” Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:48

137 posted on 07/24/2012 8:00:21 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: faucetman

Though I will always think Jesus should have washed his hands before eating.

138 posted on 07/24/2012 8:44:44 PM PDT by onedoug
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