Posted on 08/12/2012 9:20:00 PM PDT by Phinneous
A Jewish class on why Jews do not accept Christianity. I post for Jews to self-educate and for Christians to understand the Jewish point of view--not that it matters (that they do.)
You are mistaken. God did not kill Jesus.
Sinful mankind did that.
God only made the provision and Jesus was willing because there was no other bridge between our world and the righteousness of Heaven.
HI Tarah! Good to see you. I took a break :o).
Jeremiahs words are true for the UNrepentant person. But G-d knows our heart and compares the condition of our heart to our actions.
Ps 51:16 For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;
You are not pleased with burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
The Nenevites prayed, fasted and repented. G-d knew they were sincere and forgave them. No blood. No sacrifice. No Jsus.
Shalom shalom Tarah!
David was speaking about himself in this psalm: Psalms 2:7 – I will tell of the decree; The Lord said to me, "You are My son [ בְּנִי (bNI)]; this day have I begotten you." The New Testament "quotes" this verse as if God were speaking to Jesus (Acts 13:33), which is the likely motivation for the KJV translators to have changed "son" to "Son" at this verse. King David is the "son" here, a figurative characterization similar to the way God referred to Solomon as His "son".
Why did Israel reject Christ?
Rom 11:25-36
(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
(29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(30) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
(31) Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
(32) For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
(33) O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
(34) For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
(35) Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
(36) For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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I don’t know what you’re getting at. Jews reject JC because he purports to change the Torah. Is your post the non-Jew version of why Jews rejected?
"Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way for his wrath can flare up in a moment."
This kind of attitude is far different from the humility David reflected in other psalms where he glorified God and not himself.
"the rulers gather together against the Lord and against his anointed one"
Again, David didn't usually set himself up in such an exclusive way with God as though it were he and God in partnership.
Quite a different spirit from the rest of the psalsms.
“I was taught there was no remissions of sin without the shedding of blood”
Nope! Hebrews 9 is incorrectly quoting Leviticus 17.
“After Jesus, there was no more need for shedding blood for the remission of sin.”
Then why are sacrifices returning? Ezek 44.
“Abraham said God would provide the Ram for sacrifice......., and He did.”
We are not told that this is a sin sacrifice. When G-d stops Abraham...that is G-d telling Abraham...NO human sacrfice. Also, Dt 12, Jer 19.
“Any Jew that believed God would provide this “Ram” would receive Salvation without having to sacrifice animals.”
It never says that anywhere in the Torah, Prophets or writings.
We dont accept the transfiguration. If Elijah was standing there. How could John the Baptist be Elijah like Jsus claimed?
Your anti-christ is supposed to claim to be “God” right? We already rejected the man from Nazareth for making that claim. We are not about to accept anyone else who also makes that claim.
From what I have read in the NT and through history, the holy spirit is not effective. Shortly after the big release of the HS at pentecost, Paul has to write letters because they ALREADY had begun back sliding and getting into sin. Why? If the HS is indwelling in them? The church in the crusades, inquistion, pogroms, and the holocaust slaughtered the Jewish people. How could that happen if the HS leads the christian into truth?
Gotta run for now.
“This type of self-aggrandizement would be unusual for David.
“Kiss the son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way for his wrath can flare up in a moment.””
It doesnt say Kiss the son in Hebrew. That is another change the church made. Here, read this through.
http://thejewishhome.org/counter/Psa2.pdf
The capital is because the christian interpretors were understanding that David could not intend "son" as directed to himself for the reasons I designated above.
They didn't believe that David would presume himself to be considered God's son in the pagan fashion.
“You are mistaken. God did not kill Jesus.”
Of course “God” killed him. In the Garden Jsus tried to get out of it. But Jsus has NO FREE WILL. He couldnt have siad “no...not going through with it.” And besides...you teach that Jsus is “God” So, technically you have “God” killing himself.
No, it was our sin that killed him.
And lest you believe that you or I would not have killed him had we been there...even if you or I were the only person on Earth with Jesus we would have killed him just as Cain killed Abel.
In ourselves, we cannot abide with perfect righteousness.
Jesus choice always was to submit to the Father i.e. always to do what is righteous. He was tempted in all ways but always chose the right.
“to explain why we DON’T believe something in another religion.”
I’m am not entirely sure if this is what you mean..but..for me it all distills down to Dt 13 and 4.
Paraphrasing...If anyone comes to you and tries to alter your worship, to something, ANYTHING, different from what your Fathers learned at Sinai...REJECT it.
It really is that simple. Did our Fathers at Sinai know of a Triune god? no. Did they know of a hybrid godman son of god? No. Were they told that the Law would stop one day? No. On the contrary.
So thats it then. No Jsus for us. PERIOD.
Nice job distilling the class (shiur) I posted. :)
“He was tempted in all ways but always chose the right. “
G-d can not be tempted. And Jsus could not have sinned if he wanted to. As a hybrid godman, his humanity could never has sinned while intertwinned with “God” in his body. Again...he had no free will. Therefore, he was nothing like us.
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