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Todd Akin is a PCA member and Covenant Seminary graduate (vanity)
Puritan Board ^ | 8/21/2012 | Darrell Todd Maurina

Posted on 08/21/2012 2:52:24 PM PDT by darrellmaurina

By now probably everybody who cares anything about politics or about right-to-life issues knows about the U.S. Senate candidate from Missouri who made really dumb statements about female biology in rape cases.

What may not be widely known is that U.S. Rep. Todd Akin is a member of the Presbyterian Church in America, is a graduate of Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis, and apparently was a ruling elder at Twin Oaks PCA in Ballwin, a St. Louis suburb, though he's no longer listed as being a member of that church's session (i.e., board of elders or consistory).

Most of the top Republican leadership is calling on Rep. Akin to drop out because of his "open mouth, insert foot" moment in front of a local reporter. Just a few hours ago, I got a press release from U.S. Sen. Roy Blunt, along with former Missouri senators John Ashcroft, Kit Bond, John Danforth, and Jim Talent, calling for Akin to step aside.

The reason this is all over the national news is because a loss by Rep. Akin could easily prevent the Republicans from getting a Senate majority this fall. Missouri was considered a likely pickup for Republicans until Rep. Akin's comments.

No matter what we think about Rep. Akin, I think we need to look at this as an example of the need for Christian politicians to use wisdom in what we say and how we say it.

Otherwise, bad things happen like this article by a left-wing Christian website:

Rep. Todd Akin’s views typical in southern PCA churches

"Todd Akin was a follower of the late D. James Kennedy. Kennedy, founder of Florida’s Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church, was not a fringe character in American evangelicalism. He was well-known and well-respected — and his views on rape victims were the same as those expressed by Akin. Todd Akin is a product of Covenant Theological Seminary — that’s where you go if you want to be trained in patriarchal misogyny with a side of disturbing nostalgia for the Old South."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/21/rep-todd-akins-views-typical-in-southern-pca-churches/

When we enter the political realm as Christian conservatives, we will be watched by secularists for opportunities to attack us and our faith.

Christian conservatives have a bad habit of not asking ourselves what our words sound like outside our subculture.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if Todd Akin had been told hundreds of times that rape rarely results in pregnancy, and repeated that in front of a reporter who knew how explosive that comment would be.

This whole stupid discussion about whether rape can result in pregnancy isn't an issue addressed by Scripture, but there are plenty of Scriptural arguments that sound really bad to a secular audience. If we're going to make those arguments we need to know right up front that they will cause some of our enemies to mock, some to get angry, and others to scratch their heads. That's not necessarily bad, but we need to avoid unnecessary offense at the same time that we understand that some offense **IS** necessary to win. Truth hurts.

We need to be prepared to defend pro-life positions using arguments that convince not only ourselves but others.

It's one thing to say something dumb from the pulpit, but it's more difficult when tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people hear it. Akin really blew it, and we need to be careful to avoid similar mistakes.


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; akin; missouri; presbyterian; rape; sarahsteelman; toddakin

1 posted on 08/21/2012 2:52:35 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina
"We need to be prepared to defend pro-life positions using arguments that convince not only ourselves but others."

IMHO, there are few out there that do this as well as Santorum. The screeching moonbats on the far left shrieked at everything he said, but those in the squishy center tended to pay attention to him and think about what he said.

Take for example, how Rick handled nearly the exact same question during the primaries.

Akin could have learned a lot from him...

2 posted on 08/21/2012 2:59:09 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: darrellmaurina

Is that where he go his Medical degree?


3 posted on 08/21/2012 3:00:11 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: darrellmaurina

He obviously had no degree in biology or history


4 posted on 08/21/2012 3:03:14 PM PDT by hecht (restore Hetch-Hetchy, and screw San Francisco and Pelosi)
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To: Charles Henrickson; wagglebee; xzins; P-Marlowe; JediJones; Uncle Slayton; kabar; PhxTM06; ...
Ping to the religion board for a post I wrote on the Christian Observer message boards for the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and United Reformed Churches in North America, as well as the Puritan Board and the Warfield List (which have a large PCA readership).

This one is going to hurt Calvinists and hurt us badly. The old stuff about Southern Presbyterians hating women, with shades of allusions to Southern neo-Confederate stuff, is already getting spread all over the internet. (Of course, Akin is a northerner and Covenant Theological Seminary was from a northern denomination that merged with the PCA, but it's too much to ask that facts not confuse people, I guess.)

5 posted on 08/21/2012 3:03:54 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina

Akin is an engineer. Remind me not to stand under a bridge he engineered.


6 posted on 08/21/2012 3:09:14 PM PDT by chuckee
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To: darrellmaurina
The old stuff about Southern Presbyterians hating women, with shades of allusions to Southern neo-Confederate stuff, is already getting spread all over the internet.

Would you please inform me about the Cumberland Presbyterians? I'm a church of Christ member myself but visited a Cumberland Presbyterian congregation once with a work colleague. Compared to what I'm used to at the coC, it seemed pretty "high church" but the preacher was down to earth and folksy. When I met him after services, he joked that the symbol of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) was a wine goblet but that a moonshine jug was more apt for the Cumberland Presbyterians. :-)

Aside from that, my knowledge of that branch of Presbyterians is close to nil. Many thanks in advance for what information you can provide!

7 posted on 08/21/2012 3:11:58 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: darrellmaurina

Demanding Akin resign: this is what I HATE about the gutless GOP and as soon as there is a viable alternative party that can win elections - I’m outa there. Dems can commit actual crimes and are lauded. Bill Clinton actually raped women and he is the keynote speaker of the upcoming convention. Akin said something unpopular using awkward phrasing - all he meant was even in rape the baby is innocent and not deserving of being killed - and the long knives of HIS OWN party are out for him in minutes. Pansy-a$$es all of them.


8 posted on 08/21/2012 3:23:23 PM PDT by klb99 (I now understand why the South seceeded)
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To: re_nortex
Good question, re-nortex.

The Cumberland Presbyterians are an entirely different denomination from the Presbyterian Church in America.

To make a very long story short, the PCA heritage is in the old southern Presbyterian Church in the United States or PC(US), as distinguished from the northern Presbyterian Church in the United States of America or PC(USA). Both the northern and southern churches merged together in 1983, after both had conservative secessions earlier on. The southern conservatives mostly left in the 1970s and 1980s to form the PCA; the northern conservatives left in the 1930s to form the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.

Rep. Akin’s seminary is actually from the RPCES which has a somewhat different and more complex background; that denomination merged with the PCA many years ago.

The Cumberlanders date back to a much earlier secession in the early 1800s by people who did not want to demand advanced seminary training for ministers on what was then the frontier (i.e., places like Kentucky and Tennessee) and were not convinced five-point Calvinists. The pastor who spoke with you has a point — the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is an heir of the Stone-Campbell movement which left several different denominations including Presbyterianism for similar reasons to the Cumberlanders.

A major shortage of ministers on the old frontier is largely responsible for the pressure to ordain men with little formal theological training. Obviously lots of highly educated men are in non-Presbyterian denominations, but it was this need to get more ministers that was responsible for the growth of Baptist, Methodists, and the Campbellite movement. Cumberlanders are people who shared many of the concerns from the same movement but didn't go as far.

9 posted on 08/21/2012 3:28:57 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina

10 posted on 08/21/2012 3:33:32 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: darrellmaurina
Akin really blew it, and we need to be careful to avoid similar mistakes.
If folks in general cared about the unborn and women who got raped, they would have found a way to understand Akin (I had no difficulty at all), not criticize him. He's in the corner of pro-life. Is it because he opened up a topic that Romney had buried that bothers people? Or are many Republicans actually not pro-life?
11 posted on 08/21/2012 3:43:57 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: darrellmaurina

“We need to be prepared to defend pro-life positions using arguments that convince not only ourselves but others.

It’s one thing to say something dumb from the pulpit, but it’s more difficult when tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people hear it. Akin really blew it, and we need to be careful to avoid similar mistakes.”

~ ~ ~

People get upset at a few spoken words and ignore legislation for the increase of abortion here and overseas and legalizing sodomy by the two men running for the highest office in the land.

And God is going bless us? Sister Lucia of Fatima
called it “diabolical disorientation” and it’s happening
again...daily now.


12 posted on 08/21/2012 3:58:15 PM PDT by stpio
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To: mlizzy

” He’s in the corner of pro-life. Is it because he opened up a topic that Romney had buried that bothers people?”

~ ~ ~

Exactly. The election is about the economy not “social issues” (another term like “pro-choice” to cover the acceptance of murder of the most innocent). Our bad economy is part of divine judgment for choosing abortion.

Sex is for self gratification not marriage or children.
Accepting Contraception has led to abortion becoming a right protected by law.

Mother Teresa: watch...nuclear war...follows.


13 posted on 08/21/2012 4:23:18 PM PDT by stpio
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To: mlizzy

Do you work? Do you think gov’t stealing half your income (so half the country can sit on their asses doing nothing)is moral? Maybe more people are concerned about that than some unelectable Senate candidates “pro-life” bonafides. Missouri is now lost and so is the election. But the “pro-life” zealots are happy...and we get 4 more years of Obamian communism. Just wonderful....


14 posted on 08/21/2012 4:24:08 PM PDT by tbg681
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To: chuckee
Akin is an engineer. Remind me not to stand under a bridge he engineered.

He's not an engineer. He got a degree in "Management Engineering" (whatever that is) at an engineering school.

15 posted on 08/21/2012 4:28:44 PM PDT by Crawdad
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To: stpio
The election is about the economy not “social issues” (another term like “pro-choice” to cover the acceptance of murder of the most innocent). Our bad economy is part of divine judgment for choosing abortion...Accepting Contraception has led to abortion becoming a right protected by law..
Thank you!! Possibly Jesus gave that gaffe to Akin as a gift. Thank God he's strong enough to bear it, for Romney is now making himself look a fool, and he's sadly bringing Ryan right down with him. When Santorum stepped down, we were troubled, as he too was a champion for life, and now Ryan of course is handcuffed by his master. And I agree, something's going to give; it IS the 40th year of abortion, not that I dwell on numbers, but that number is of course connected to biblical history/cleansing, etc.
16 posted on 08/21/2012 5:00:39 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: darrellmaurina

Excellent short essay.

A lot of people have either forgotten the Stone-Campbell movement (and its place in the American Restoration movement) or swept it under the rug. The Campbellites are actually still a strong influence in many of the non denominational churches, although many of them don’t know it.


17 posted on 08/21/2012 5:10:50 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: tbg681
Do you work? Do you think gov’t stealing half your income (so half the country can sit on their asses doing nothing)is moral? Maybe more people are concerned about that than some unelectable Senate candidates “pro-life” bonafides. Missouri is now lost and so is the election. But the “pro-life” zealots are happy...and we get 4 more years of Obamian communism. Just wonderful....
Are you jumping to conclusions? If conservatives vote for the man (support him), doesn't he stand a chance? Life first; all the rest will then follow. It's a bloodbath out there. You don't "see" the blood, but a pro-lifer (and more importantly Jesus) does. Don't you think He has a "breaking" point? Are you prepared to deal with that?
18 posted on 08/21/2012 5:12:22 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: darrellmaurina

I would like to know that IF Akin loses to Claire, will it be his fault, this state’s fault or God’s fault? By the way when God sends a messenger the message always happens exactly the way God intends?


19 posted on 08/21/2012 5:24:08 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: darrellmaurina; P-Marlowe; wmfights

Romney thinks Boy Scout leaders should be gay and Akin thinks there are different types of rape and that receptive female partners are more likely to get pregnant than rape victims.

I vote for Romney getting the boot, and Akins moving up to his slot on the national ticket.


20 posted on 08/21/2012 5:49:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: mlizzy

“Thank you!! Possibly Jesus gave that gaffe to Akin as a gift. Thank God he’s strong enough to bear it, for Romney is now making himself look a fool, and he’s sadly bringing Ryan right down with him. When Santorum stepped down, we were troubled, as he too was a champion for life, and now Ryan of course is handcuffed by his master. And I agree, something’s going to give; it IS the 40th year of abortion, not that I dwell on numbers, but that number is of course connected to biblical history/cleansing, etc.”

~ ~ ~

No. Thank you~!! I was sad, not understanding, why is evil winning and good man taken out while it seems everyone pats the back of evil? You expressed it very well. God is strengthening Akin with the nationwide attack on him. Imagine! The big protest, don’t look behind the curtain to the true evil America.

No one answers, how is Ryan Christian saying yes to lining up with a man who is not Christian? Is it Paul’s ambition or maybe, somehow, he is the “miracle” God is going to bring about? I don’t know...

Whenever Santorum would speak, you could hear it, he wasn’t
afraid, he addressed the hidden in plain sight mortal sins
of our country. Heaven keeps saying in prophecy, pray, offer a sacrifice for an “election miracle.”


21 posted on 08/21/2012 8:01:21 PM PDT by stpio
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To: MarkBsnr; re_nortex
Thanks, MarkBsnr, re. your comments on the Stone-Campbell movement.

There are certain benefits to being the son of a politician, getting theological training at the college and graduate level, and then going into the world of media. My background has one similarity to Rep. Akin, namely, that I have formal theological training at the seminary level which I use in the secular world rather than the church world. Occasionally that means I understand aspects of news that my colleagues have no idea about how to cover. I was a finalist for a national religion writing award last year along with reporters for the New York Times, Washington Post, and a nummber of other major media for my coverage of the religious aspects of a different political campaign.

To connect that side point from re-nortex’s question back to the main subject of this thread —

To avoid any misunderstandings, I do not know Rep. Akin at any sort of personal level, or even professionally. He did not represent a congressional district anywhere close to where I live and other than his work on the House Armed Services Committee, I had no reason to pay attention to him until he ran for the U.S. Senate. He's offered several times to do interviews with me, not because he knows anything about me, but just because I have showed up at basically all his campaign events in the Fort Leonard Wood area. Until now I've regarded this as a statewide race that needs to be covered by the major statewide media, not people like me.

Now that the campaign's focus has moved into attacks on his church's doctrinal position (go read the people on the web digging into people like Francis Schaeffer and D. James Kennedy and their influence on Akin) I may actually have something I can bring to the table that most other media do not have. I've put together a quick essay this afternoon for Christian Observer magazine on the situation with Rep. Akin and will probably follow up with his campaign when the current controversy dies down to see if we can schedule an interview when he's in this area again.

However, I expect a “no thanks” and I have no problem with that. If I were Rep. Akin’s campaign manager, I would tell him to stay far away from any reporter who wants to ask him anything about religious matters for the next three months. That is the smart thing to do after something like what just happened.

22 posted on 08/21/2012 8:25:46 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: darrellmaurina; MarkBsnr
Darrell and Mark:

I would be remiss if I didn't thank both of you for the enlightening posts in this thread. I realize that I may be responsible for sidetracking the topic into another area but Darrell has managed to get it back on target! :-)

As a "dunkin' Campbellite" myself, the Stone-Campbell movement is of obvious interest to me. Likewise, the flourishing of Christianity in what were once wilderness areas has a special fascination. That's what led to my initial query about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

Again, I appreciate the information and it just serves to confirm my long-held notion that Free Republic attracts some of the brightest (and nicest) people on the planet.

23 posted on 08/21/2012 8:43:22 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: darrellmaurina

“I would tell him to stay far away from any reporter who wants to ask him anything about religious matters for the next three months. That is the smart thing to do after something like what just happened.”

~ ~ ~

No...friend, lizzy just helped us remember. God brought this about to bring souls to Him. The #1 issue of our lives, of this nation is morals, virtue, the faith. Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes while we remain silent about evil.

Look at Akin’s strength of faith. Admire it, I was confused at why this happened, not now.


24 posted on 08/21/2012 9:05:43 PM PDT by stpio
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To: tbg681; mlizzy
Close to sixty million dead infants is just a tad more important than a fifty percent and higher tax rate.

The two are connected, of course, since had we not slaughtered those millions there would be millions more people participating in the economy, paying social security, and in general broadening the base that pays for all the things voters thought it would be nice to promise themselves. Naturally, when people are ignorant suckers they'll elect the loudmouth that promises to keep them from having to take care of granny or their errant daughter and her brood, their retarded uncle, and so on, rather than facing the consequences of their own actions or otherwise accepting responsibility. After all, as the democrat gang chanted not so long ago, we owe it to ourselves.

People who were so stupid that they couldn't figure out that killing off the generations that were supposed to be paying for all these benefits was a bad idea probably aren't quite bright enough to figure out that solving the one problem impacts solving the other, either. They more than likely just figure if they take care of their money it's all going to be fine for them.

The fact is, though, whatever someone sets aside the government can take. People who have decided there's nothing wrong with depriving infants of their very lives are already convinced whatever you have is theirs when and if they want it, they just haven't told you yet. Pay the price of returning this nation to sound morals and the government leech on the jugular of the nation will shrivel and die which solves the problem of out of control taxation.

have a nice day

25 posted on 08/21/2012 9:05:54 PM PDT by Rashputin (Only Newt can defeat both the Fascist democrats and the Vichy GOP)
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To: re_nortex; darrellmaurina
I would be remiss if I didn't thank both of you for the enlightening posts in this thread. I realize that I may be responsible for sidetracking the topic into another area but Darrell has managed to get it back on target! :-)

Yes he has, and we are all grateful.

As a "dunkin' Campbellite" myself, the Stone-Campbell movement is of obvious interest to me. Likewise, the flourishing of Christianity in what were once wilderness areas has a special fascination. That's what led to my initial query about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

The entire American Restoration was a very important pivot in the development of American theological thought. It was the beginning of the end of the large denominational dominance of American Protestantism. It doomed the Episcopalian Church, and the Presbyterians as well. The Baptists fared much "better", if only because their decentralized church put the onus on each individual church for their theology, rather than rely on a central authority.

Of course, speaking as a rather insistent Catholic, I would content that, theologically speaking, the Magisterium keeps the Faith closest to what Jesus taught, but that is not the theme of this thread.

Again, I appreciate the information and it just serves to confirm my long-held notion that Free Republic attracts some of the brightest (and nicest) people on the planet.

There are a bunch of FReepers who would disagree with the second and (possibly) the first if applied to yours truly. But I will give Darrell standing applause in his work here. He has excelled in presenting facts and accuracy. And for that, he needs to be recognized.

26 posted on 08/21/2012 9:14:18 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: re_nortex; MarkBsnr
23 posted on Tue Aug 21 2012 22:43:22 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by re_nortex: “As a ‘dunkin’ Campbellite’ myself, the Stone-Campbell movement is of obvious interest to me. Likewise, the flourishing of Christianity in what were once wilderness areas has a special fascination. That's what led to my initial query about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.”

Regarding the Stone-Campbell movement — I firmly believe that we Calvinists totally blew it in the late 1700s and early 1800s by imposing ordination requirements that go beyond Scripture. Literally hundreds of thousands of Scots-Irish settlers on the frontier had been Presbyterians for generations in Scotland and Ulster, and wanted to be Presbyterians in America, but we could not provide enough ministers so most of the elder-led churches they started ended up in some other group that could provide ministers. The same can be said of Puritans from New England who moved westward into western New York, Ohio, Indiana and Michigan.

I'm a hard-right Calvinist. I affirm the regulative principle, which means among other things that if we can't find something in the Bible, we ought not find it in the church. More than two hundred years later, your own Stone-Campbell movement still retains that fundamental principle of Calvinism, including being non-instrumental in worship, though we obviously disagree on certain applications of the principle. There is absolutely no good reason why we violated our own principles by elevating ordination standards beyond the clear rules of I Timothy and Titus, and we destroyed our churches on the frontier as a result.

As a Campbellite, that was to your benefit and our loss — but we deserved what we got by going beyond what is written.

On Tue Aug 21 2012 23:14:18 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) MarkBsnr wrote: “There are a bunch of FReepers who would disagree with the second and (possibly) the first if applied to yours truly. But I will give Darrell standing applause in his work here. He has excelled in presenting facts and accuracy. And for that, he needs to be recognized.”

23 posted on Tue Aug 21 2012 22:43:22 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time) by re_nortex: “Again, I appreciate the information and it just serves to confirm my long-held notion that Free Republic attracts some of the brightest (and nicest) people on the planet.”

Thank you to both of you. Not sure I deserve the compliments, but I appreciate them.

FWIW, I've been a Freeper for a long time, but read a lot more than I posted until recently, and didn't even register for an account for a long time and read rather than posted.

From offhand conversations at political events, and private emails, it has become obvious that some of the most powerful people in American conservative politics read Free Republic regularly even if they participate anonymously or don't post at all. I've pretty much decided that anytime I write something about a conservative leader or interact with someone defending a conservative leader, I'd better act as if I'm talking to that leader via email because it is very possible I am interacting with him or at least one of his staff members.

Anonymity can allow people to be keyboard ninjas. That's a bad habit.

It's especially bad once we realize the guy on the other end may be somebody we would **NEVER** address with anything short of the highest level of respect if we were talking in person or knew who we were talking to.

Just some things for all of us to consider — not something directed toward you in any way, and probably directed more to my own conduct as a self-reminder than anyone else.

27 posted on 08/21/2012 9:34:45 PM PDT by darrellmaurina
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To: stpio
Souls are falling into hell like snowflakes while we remain silent about evil. Look at Akin’s strength of faith. Admire it, I was confused at why this happened, not now.
Beautiful !! Just two days ago, I re-read the accounting of hell to St. John Bosco through a dream. I hadn't read it in years, and had forgotten some of the details. I don't think people even begin to realize the intensity of hell. The fact there is no escape and it is eternal should be of great concern to everyone. http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/bosco_hell.htm
28 posted on 08/21/2012 9:55:07 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: darrellmaurina
From offhand conversations at political events, and private emails, it has become obvious that some of the most powerful people in American conservative politics read Free Republic regularly even if they participate anonymously or don't post at all. I've pretty much decided that anytime I write something about a conservative leader or interact with someone defending a conservative leader, I'd better act as if I'm talking to that leader via email because it is very possible I am interacting with him or at least one of his staff members.

Agreed. I've had indications as well, although I am less connected with the political world than some. I have had a couple of people from the religious world enquire...

Nonetheless, our conservative candidates had better look in the mirror and see how their conservative principles will stand up under the scrutiny of this election. And the skeletons. This election is very very important...

29 posted on 08/21/2012 10:02:08 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: stpio
No one answers, how is Ryan Christian saying yes to lining up with a man who is not Christian? Is it Paul’s ambition or maybe, somehow, he is the “miracle” God is going to bring about? I don’t know...

Whenever Santorum would speak, you could hear it, he wasn’t afraid, he addressed the hidden in plain sight mortal sins of our country. Heaven keeps saying in prophecy, pray, offer a sacrifice for an “election miracle.”
I wondered that myself about Paul, and I'm still confused, however, a friend of mine who knows Paul through a friend said he feels he's a good guy. ?? Yes, Santorum was wonderful. We had a Facebook group that attended Adoration for him. It was called Adoration for Santorum. Many wonderful stories there..
30 posted on 08/21/2012 10:15:09 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: darrellmaurina; All

The question I do have with what Rep. Akin said is that, could this have cost not only him, but also the GOP the US Senate?


31 posted on 08/22/2012 3:07:15 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: darrellmaurina; xzins; P-Marlowe
It wouldn't at all surprise me if Todd Akin had been told hundreds of times that rape rarely results in pregnancy,

There are a number of factors.

A woman is only fertile for about two days a month and sperm can live for up to three days. So, there are maybe five days a month that a woman can get pregnant.

However, this does not factor in the reality that many women are on birth control and many rapists use condoms, this alone greatly reduces the number of pregnancies. Then there is the fact that the trauma of the rape can often be stressful enough to prevent fertilization. Add to this the fact that many rape victims are menopausal women.

Everything I've read indicates that there are between o5 and 95 thousand rapes per year in the United States and the general consensus is that no more than 5% of rape victims become pregnant. So, the actual number is fairly low.

Nevertheless, the problem with Akin is that he stated that there is some sort of biological defense that keeps rape victims from becoming pregnant and this is flat out false. Add to that his use of the term "legitimate" was stupid.

32 posted on 08/22/2012 7:02:51 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: darrellmaurina; xzins; P-Marlowe
Everything I've read indicates that there are between o5 and 95 thousand rapes per year in the United States

This SHOULD read between 80 and 95 thousand.

33 posted on 08/22/2012 7:04:28 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: mlizzy

“I wondered that myself about Paul, and I’m still confused, however, a friend of mine who knows Paul through a friend said he feels he’s a good guy. ??”

~ ~ ~

I wish Paul Ryan to be the answer to prayers but look, he already belongs to Romney and is going away from the faith. Sickening. There are no exceptions for abortion.

If it’s true, the news today:

Paul Ryan Softens Anti-Abortion Stance as ‘Good Step in the Right Direction’

By Shushannah Walshe | ABC OTUS News –

In Flight Between Roanoke, Va., and Raleigh, N.C. - Although Paul Ryan has taken the position that all abortions, even in the case of rape and incest, should be outlawed, the Wisconsin congressman supports Mitt Romney’s softer position now that he shares the GOP presidential ticket because it’s a “good step in the right direction,” he said today.

Romney believes abortion should be legal in cases of abortion or incest, or when the mother’s life is in danger. Ryan’s previous position only extended exceptions to protecting the mother’s life.

“Look, I’m proud of my record,” Ryan said at a brief news conference on his plane. “I’m proud of my record. Mitt Romney is going to be president and the president sets policy. His policy is exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. I’M COMFORTABLE WITH IT, because it’s a good step in the right direction.”

He wouldn’t say he regretted abortion legislation he co-sponsored with Rep. Todd Akin of Missouri, explaining that he is “proud of my pro-life record I have.”

“That bill passed, I think, by 251 votes,” Ryan said. “It was bipartisan. I think HR-3 is the one you are talking about. I think we had 251 votes, 16 Democrats, I am proud of my pro-life record I have.”...

~ ~ ~

the last word above...should be “HAD” stpio


34 posted on 08/22/2012 12:16:49 PM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio
"..I’M COMFORTABLE WITH IT, because it’s a good step in the right direction.”
Tragic; this was of course in the news a couple days ago, but not set so firm. Selling his soul for what? Will more people start to become skeptical of the Mormon faith in a place of power now? I feel a bit nauseous but I shouldn't be surprised. Thanks for giving me the news.
35 posted on 08/22/2012 12:45:17 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: xzins; darrellmaurina; P-Marlowe
I vote for Romney getting the boot, and Akins moving up to his slot on the national ticket.

LOL

I wish Akins had stepped aside. I am not going to waste time defending a strong pro-life candidate who isn't smart enough to learn how to answer loaded questions. We may not like it, but we live in a country where most people only get their information from sound bites. He will lose in MO and we may not take the Senate because of it.

Romney is not the candidate any of us wanted, but I don't think that is why abortion laws will be left as they are. Look to John Roberts at the SCOTUS he is untouchable and he has made obamacare the law of the land. I do believe Romney will sign a repeal of obamacare and am confident that the House will send the Senate a repeal, but if the Senate is in Rat hands it will die there.

Looking at this reality I wonder how pro-life Aikens really is. He talks a great game, but when it came to sacrificing his career for this cause he chose his career.

36 posted on 08/22/2012 12:55:31 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights

“LOL

I wish Akins had stepped aside. I am not going to waste time defending a strong pro-life candidate who isn’t smart enough to learn how to answer loaded questions.”

~ ~ ~

I am sad again, I want to cry. Akins is made a joke of and stupid for his misspoken words but Romney’s “words” about himself now, the fourth time, he is now a pro-life man are wise and believable? Pay no attention to Romney remaining a pro-sodomite.

It’s the complete con. If Mitt can’t even recognize who
Our Lord is and take a clue from the date Mormonism was established and you want him leading this country?

Scary...as Obama.


37 posted on 08/22/2012 1:42:09 PM PDT by stpio
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To: darrellmaurina
Of course, everyone should watch what they say. But we all say things the wrong way from time to time, and sometimes cause people to get mad because we didn't properly communicate what we meant to say.

Does that mean we get burned at the stake for it like some Pubbies are trying to do to Akin? No, it shouldn't mean that at all. We should be forgiven, especially if we've apologized like he has.

38 posted on 08/22/2012 1:56:13 PM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: hecht

Maybe you aren’t a Christian, but if you are, you might want to pray about the whole forgiveness thing.


39 posted on 08/22/2012 1:58:14 PM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody

I’ll pray that he resigns, I’ll pray that none of his family ever gets rapedand I’ll pray that the damage he caused is limited. Maybe after he resigns and volunteers in a rape crisis center I’ll forgive him.
Oh and to your patronizing attitude, my prayers are on speed dial.


40 posted on 08/22/2012 3:02:46 PM PDT by hecht (restore Hetch-Hetchy, and screw San Francisco and Pelosi)
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To: hecht
Maybe after he resigns and volunteers in a rape crisis center I’ll forgive him.

Hmmm. . .as I recall, scripture doesn't tell us to forgive after they do what you want them to. It says to forgive as your Father in heaven has forgiven you.

Even while on the cross, Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." He didn't wait for them to take Him down and say, "Oh, we shouldn't have done that."

41 posted on 08/23/2012 6:48:57 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: stpio
I am sad again, I want to cry.

Nobody is stopping you.

Akins is made a joke of and stupid for his misspoken words but Romney’s “words” about himself now, the fourth time, he is now a pro-life man are wise and believable? Pay no attention to Romney remaining a pro-sodomite.

Reading is fundamental. I did not make fun of this guy Aiken. I just question where he places pro=life on his priority list.

If Mitt can’t even recognize who Our Lord is and take a clue from the date Mormonism was established and you want him leading this country?

Look in the mirror. It was your church that was a key swing vote that gave us obama. It was a "conservative" member of your church that legalized obamacare. Clean up your own house first.

We are not electing a religious leader. We need someone who will sign the reapeal of obamacare. At this point I could care less if he is a Christian, or not. While the purists want to sit around and wait for the "perfect" candidate the country is being destroyed and religious liberty with it.

I'll vote for the mormon ovr the radical socialist just as I would have voted for a Roman Catholic.

42 posted on 08/23/2012 7:59:57 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights

“Reading is fundamental. I did not make fun of this guy Aiken. I JUST QUESTION WHERE HE PLACES PRO=LIFE ON HIS PRIORITY LIST.”

If Mitt can’t even recognize who Our Lord is and take a clue from the date Mormonism was established and you want him leading this country?

“Look in the mirror. IT WAS YOUR CHURCH that was a key swing vote that gave us obama. It was a “conservative” member of your church that legalized obamacare. Clean up your own house first.”

WE ARE NOT ELECTING A RELIGIOUS LEADER. We need someone WHO WILL SIGN THE REAPEAL OF OBAMACARE. At this point I could care less if he is a Christian, or not. While the purists want to sit around and wait for the “perfect” candidate the country is being destroyed and religious liberty with it.

“I’LL VOTE for the mormon ovr the radical socialist just as I would have voted for a Roman Catholic.”

~ ~ ~

Akin is totally for life, that’s the crux of it. Akin misspoke, with a couple of sentences, he corrected himself. You know him by his record, it is 100% Christian.

Excuse me, most of Christianity is Roman Catholic (a hint, a help for the future). The Church teaches there are no exceptions for abortion not even when it comes to the mother’s life threatened. Voting for any pro-abort legislator no matter the level is a MORTAL sin.

You say repeal ObamaCare, it was modeled after RomneyCare! They both contain provisions for abortion. What a blindness.

It certainly is religious, a matter of faith, God is not going to guide BHO or Romney, men who are not Christian and have no problem with disobeying His laws. How can God bless them or us.

Rush just said it at the end of his program today. You are not pro-life if you approve of the exceptions to abortion. It is not the baby’s fault. Romney thinks it’s fine to kill a baby who was conceived by rape or incest.
Doesn’t this lie goes against the Party platform and Paul is following his new boss, changing his beliefs~! Accepting Romney’s stand for exceptions to abortion.

Go after a true man of God while Romney’s evil past record and present non-Christian beliefs are accepted. Satan wins again, wake up America.


43 posted on 08/23/2012 2:04:06 PM PDT by stpio (a)
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To: mlizzy

It’s that stupid can wreck any otherwise good view.
There are a lot of people on both sides of issues that I could support or (at least) respect, but some of the idiocy that emerges just makes association therewith toxic.


44 posted on 08/23/2012 2:08:25 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: ctdonath2
It’s that stupid can wreck any otherwise good view.
Any woman who has had an abortion, deeply regretted it and healed, surely knew that Akin wasn't stupid, just reaching out the best he could at the time (and he apologized!). Saving babies (and bringing up the discussion) is more important than speaking perfectly on same. His misspeak was a gift to the unborn in heaven and on earth.
45 posted on 08/23/2012 2:21:29 PM PDT by mlizzy (And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell others not to kill? --MT)
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To: wmfights

“Reading is fundamental. I did not make fun of this guy Aiken. I JUST QUESTION WHERE HE PLACES PRO=LIFE ON HIS PRIORITY LIST.”

If Mitt can’t even recognize who Our Lord is and take a clue from the date Mormonism was established and you want him leading this country?

“Look in the mirror. IT WAS YOUR CHURCH that was a key swing vote that gave us obama. It was a “conservative” member of your church that legalized obamacare. Clean up your own house first.”

WE ARE NOT ELECTING A RELIGIOUS LEADER. We need someone WHO WILL SIGN THE REAPEAL OF OBAMACARE. At this point I could care less if he is a Christian, or not. While the purists want to sit around and wait for the “perfect” candidate the country is being destroyed and religious liberty with it.

“I’LL VOTE for the mormon ovr the radical socialist just as I would have voted for a Roman Catholic.”

~ ~ ~

Akin is totally for life, that’s the crux of it. Akin misspoke, with a couple of sentences, he corrected himself. You know him by his record, it is 100% Christian.

Excuse me, most of Christianity is Roman Catholic. The Church teaches there are no exceptions for abortion not even when it comes to the mother’s life threatened. Voting for any pro-abort legislator no matter the level is a MORTAL sin.

You say repeal ObamaCare, it was modeled after RomneyCare! They both contain provisions for abortion.

It certainly is a matter of religion, a matter of faith.

Rush just said it at the end of his program today. You are not pro-life if you approve of the exceptions to abortion. It is not the baby’s fault. Romney thinks it’s fine to kill a baby who was conceived by rape or incest.
Doesn’t this lie goes against the Party platform and Paul is following his new boss, changing his beliefs~! Accepting Romney’s stand for exceptions to abortion.

Go after Akin, a true man of God while Romney’s evil past record and present non-Christian beliefs are accepted. Satan wins again, wake up America.


46 posted on 08/23/2012 3:10:01 PM PDT by stpio (a)
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