Skip to comments.White Horse Prophecy [Mitt's Loss brings obvious conclusion that Mormon leaders falsely prophesied]
Posted on 11/10/2012 7:59:09 AM PST by Colofornian
MessageToEagle.com - Normally, as a matter of personal preference I dont get into politics, but when we have a presidential campaign that begins to cross over into the strange twilight zone of religious weirdness that centers on the one person whos going to control the most powerful government and army on the face of the earth, well, it brings up some unusual scenarios to wonder about.
It is being reported in the media today that former presidential candidate Mitt Romney only wrote a victory speech for Election Day; presumably a harried, last minute scramble to revise his speech was being suggested as the reason behind the Romney-Ryan campaigns sluggish reluctance to concede their partys unthinkable defeat.
Barack Obama: 303 Mitt Romney: 206
Curiously, one has to wonder whether it was Romneys obsession with polls and tracking data that lead to this overextension of hubris; his unshakable faith that he would be the next president of the United Statesor could it have been Romneys Mormon faith itself that lead him to believe victory was all but assured by some divine mandate?
Ascending to the office of the presidency has always been a coveted part of the mission of the Mormon Church, which began with its founder Joseph Smith, who as a young man experienced a close encounter with a being from another planet named Moroni, who descended from the heavens and instructed Smith to found a new religion (as seen on History Channels Ancient Aliens, S3E01)today, in Ufology, such a happenstance would likely be classified as a contactee CE5 level event.
I saw a pillar of light . . . which descended gradually until it fell upon me Joseph Smith.
In 1844 Joseph Smith, an apparent UFO contactee and the founder of the Mormon Church, brazenly launched his own political campaign for President of the United States. His stated goal was to overthrow the U.S. Constitution, and bring about a Mormon theocracy to the Nation.
Smiths candidacy was always long shot, but that didnt stop him from rallying his people to help clinch his destiny to be an independent commander in chief of the army of God.
Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not bow to his demands that they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them. He foresaw the emergence of the one Mighty and Stronga leader who would set in order the house of God.
Smiths call for a theodemocracy where God and his people hold the power to conduct the affairs of men in righteous matters evidently did not sit well with the majority of voters in the United States, and brought down a lot of bad press and hostility upon the Mormons. Smiths presidential campaign was cut short while he was sitting in jail facing charges of treason and inciting a riot; an angry mob broke into the jailhouse and brought him to justice by shooting him to death.
Out of this early chapter of U.S. history developed what has became known in the Mormon Church as the White Horse Prophecya controversial prediction that someday a great Mormon leader, who, at a time when the U.S. Constitution hangs like a thread as fine as a silk fiber, would be elected President.
I know a little bit about Mormonism and their beliefs. I grew up and lived in Salt Lake City most all my life, I sat through many days of LDS seminary at public schools, and I also attended a private Mormon school as a teenager.
My family has roots in the Mormon pioneer heritage and early history. My ancestors, the Neffs, came to the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, from Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. My great-great-great-grandfather John Neff, Sr. settled Neffs canyon in East Millcreek, Utah. He was also a close friend of Brigham Young and accompanied him into Northern Utah to proselyte amongst the Native Americans there. His daughter, Mary Ann Neff, married the notorious Mormon gunslinger and Utah folkhero Orrin Porter Rockwell.
Orrin Porter Rockwell was one scary-looking son of a bitch . . .
Rockwell served as a loyal henchman to Church founders Joseph Smith Jr. and Brigham Youngand was affectionately nick-named Ol Port the Destroying Angel of Mormondom.
In his despicable and sordid history, Ol Port was intimately connected to political assassinations, revenge-killings, and gruesome Indian massacres. Hes praised for having avenged the Prophet Joseph Smiths murder by shooting one of the conspirators with his musket while riding astride a horse.
There have been a few failed attempts in various movies and books to elevate the psychopath to the status of a gritty American hero of the old west fortunately, none of them have really stuck.
A few of the many curious tenants of Mormonism I heard growing up in Salt Lake City were as follows . . .
*Cain, the killer of his brother Abel, is alive and wanders the earth, wearing no clothing but being covered by hair, and that LDS Church apostle David W. Patten encountered him once; and that reported sightings of Bigfoot can be explained by this story.
*Blacks were neutral in the War in Heaven, and that is why they were not allowed to hold the Mormon priesthood before 1978.
*Albert Einstein supposedly once said that LDS Church apostle James E. Talmage was the smartest man he had ever met.
*The Second Coming was imminent, and when I was age 25 I would be living in the Last Days (Im in my 40s now).
And heres where Mitt Romneys presidential candidacy enters the picture
I remember my 7th grade LDS seminary teacher sermonizing about the signs of the Last Days.
One of his favorite signs that he liked to talk about was that a great Mormon leader would be elected President of the United States, and this would be a major indication that the Last Days were imminent, e.g. the White Horse Prophecy.
Some say that the White Horse Prophecy was written by Joseph Smith himself, while others dispute that claim. According to the Salt Lake City Tribune:
The disputed prophecy was recorded in a diary entry of a Mormon who had heard the tale from two men who were with Joseph Smith in Nauvoo, Ill. when he supposedly declared the prophecy. You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed, the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber.
Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government.
Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion, the prophecy says.
Publicly, the Mormon Church doesnt officially endorse the White Horse Prophecy as doctrine, and will deny anything to do with it (just as Romney has whenever its been brought up)however, theres a telling piece of Mormon dogma that people may find disturbing. It was set in place by Joseph Smith himself, and is referred to as lying for the Lord.
As an act of self preservation or to protect the Mormon Church, it is doctrinally permissive to lie about your beliefs or intentions. In other words the ends justify the means. Smith did it with regard to his polygamous lifestyle. Brigham Young did it when he claimed that only Paiute Indians were responsible for the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
Over and over again, Mitt Romney marginalized his devout Mormon background, and downplayed its significance throughout his entire campaign. But in the 1970s the Cougar Club at Brigham Young University declared their admiration of Mitt and predicted that hed be the president of the United States one day. According to an article on Salon.com:
the Cougar Club the all male, all white social club at Brigham Young University in Salt Lake City (blacks were excluded from full membership in the Mormon church until 1978) was humming with talk that its president, Mitt Romney, would become the first Mormon president of the United States. If not Mitt, then who? was the ubiquitous slogan within the elite organization. The pious world of BYU was expected to spawn the man who would lead the Mormons into the White House and fulfill the prophecies of the churchs founder, Joseph Smith Jr., which Romney has avidly sought to realize.
With all this in mind, its hard not to look back and wonder . . .
Could Mitt Romney have been intending to run the United States as a Mormon theocratic state, as fortold by his Churchs prophet Joseph Smith?
Would a President Romney have executed the will of the people of the United States, and answered to the peopleor would he only answer to God via the hierarchy of the Mormon Church?
What if a revelation or vision was received by the current President of the LDS Church (or Prophet), and passed on to President Romney as a directive from God?would Romney have executed that directive, even if it had gone against the will of the U.S. people, or the World?
Thankfully, this is probably one mystery well never know the answer to . . .
Written by Dustin Naef - MessageToEagle.com Contributor
About the author: Dustin Naef has been a student of ancient mysteries and the paranormal for as long as he can remember. He has worked in screenwriting, graphic design and illustration, produced and designed video best-selling games, and is currently involved in the production of a film documentary and book about the mysteries surrounding Mount Shasta, California.
If you wish to follow Dustin Naef: Dustin's website: http://www.dustinnaef.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustinnaef.mountshasta https://www.facebook.com/MountShastaFilm
Yes, but it’s hard to inform someone who is mad.
Except to the Mormons whether they want to admit it or not Barak Obama is a Mormon...
In June 2008 and a couple of times after Stanley Ann Dunham, happy atheist, and the mother of Barak Hussein Obama AKA etc, was deaddunked AKA ncro baptism AKA baptism of the dead in a Mormon temple or 2 or 3...in proxy
This made the dead mother of then Democrat candidate for the office of president of the United States a MORMON...
Then the freshly minted or tinted or wet Mormon was temple married to her dead lover and the biological father of Barak Obama, thus eliminating his previously illegitimate status and making him ‘worthy’ for the priesthood of the Mormon male dominion...
After Stanley Ann Obama nee Dunham (due to her temple wedding) received all the possible Earthly lineup of endowments and anointings and 2nd anointings in Mormindoms secret sacred closet, she was then ready for the final cue and able now to bestow honors upon her bereft son Barak..
She was ‘sealed’ to bot h Barak and his sister thus making them both temple Mormons and passing on ALL the endowments and anointings and honors she had recieved...
As there is NO doctrine in all of Mormondom to reverse or cause the dead dunkee or the sealed family members to loose the effects of the temple rituals
Barak Hussein Obama was elected president in Nov 2008 as a temple Mormon
and will always remain one...
You have your Mormon in the White House...
Let the horse races begin...
I had picked up the impression that they were putting on an additional 8,000 missionaries, did I get that wrong?
Because youre confusing the White Horse Prophecy with what was actually said in all those addresses over the years.
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Oh I understand apparently better than you, Rip.
Typical Mormon ploy, if you don’t agree you don’t understand the ‘higher’ doctrines of Mormonism. Wrong, we understand completely, and I remember discussing it at BYU and in my wards. The masses believe in the prophecy, but downplay it publicly just like they downplay the belief that the US will become a Mormon theocracy during the Millennium to outsiders.
I will give Rip this one thing. I believe Smith gave the prophecy about his own 1844 run for POTUS that originally it was a short term prophecy, and when that wasn’t fulfilled, rather than let the masses at the time believe that Smith gave a false prophecy the leadership began to speak of it as a future event. That doesn’t change that for the last 140+ years it has been taught and believed by Latter day saints and most LDS I know supported Mitt because they thought he was the fulfillment of it.
For the lurkers who want to decide for themselves and actually research it, here are some great, well documented historical pieces and quotes about the WHP....
These are from Mormon friendly pages (although the editor was threatened with excommunication for not supporting Mitt Romney)...
This is from a ministry who counters Mormonism, but is still extremely accurate and well sourced. Most professional historians familiar with Mormonism agree that this is a reliable source.
Ive read Steve’s info several times but when Ive posted his name here Ive been told he never tells the truth because he is an ‘apostate’
who would know best what was going on with ETB than his own close family ???
They lowered the age to 18 for the boys...
and 19 for the girls...
there was a reason or 2 ...
possible draft, keeping them busy and marriagable etc..
youre most welcome..
I got it from elsewhere myself
Well, that’s pretty interesting.
I had picked up the impression that they were putting on an additional 8,000 missionaries, did I get that wrong?
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At General Conference this last October (2012), the LDS church officially lowered the age for missionaries to 18 (from 19) for men and to 19 (from 21) for women. The number of additional missionaries varies but 8k isn’t unreasonable. There are several reasons for this...
First, probably expecting a Mitt win and to use it to further Mormonism.
Second, the number of missionaries has been steadily declining over the last decade
Third, Women are taught that it is better to get married than go on a mission (when I was LDS you only went on a mission to make you more ‘marriageable’ if you were a woman and it was basically an admission that at age 21 you were an old maid). This solves that problem.
Fourth, many LDS are chosing to go to state or secular schools rather than BYU and after a year or two ‘in the world’ are less likely to want to go on a mission and are more likely to leave.
Fifth, the rate of returned missionaries leaving is pretty high (about 50% for men). I think SLC expects that if they get them younger, they are less likely to ‘think’ on their mission.
Six, it is harder to leave once you have been through the LDS temple and a mission call is usually the first time you go through the Endowment, so by lowering the age the leadership expects less people to leave or go ‘inactive’.
Even the LDS leadership admits people are leaving in droves and while they do not release number of those leaving if you crunch the numbers they lose OFFICIALLY (resignation,excommunication and death) about 200,000 per year and that is not counting those who just leave and don’t take their names off church records (these people are still counted in the numbers until they are 110).
When I was in grad school we had a support group of ex-LDS and of the 2 dozen who showed up every week, I was the ONLY one who went through the name removal process and no one had been excommunicated. Extrapolating that out and even allowing for the small sample, the LDS activity (tithing paying and attending) is WAY down.
Also, someone told me recently that they are not excommunicating nearly as much as they used to or for the things they used to (homosexuality, and fornication and adultery) which also reinforces the fact that they are losing people.
What change was made at FR, that suddenly switched it into a freedom loving site?
Well, the Q here is: Are you engaging in historical parsing that the listeners at these General Conferences were not engaging in?
Did they think that these discussions were extensions of Smith's 'White Horse' prophecy, or, as you now claim, something altogether different?
Do you somehow know more, Rip, than then-BYU president Dr. Ernest Wilkinson?
In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment. - Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7
What about Ezra Taft Benson's numerous references including one as recenlty published by the Lds church in 1988:
Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government. - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
Brigham Young clearly repeatedly taught clear elements of this "prophecy" as well:
Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction. It will be so. - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction. - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204
Our government, the best government in the world, is crumbling to pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204, April 8, 1868
Rip, ALL: What, then is a way to "test" Rip's claim -- that the White Horse prophecy is somehow distinct from the string of similar references during Lds general conferences?
Well, let's start with the prophecy itself, found in a diary entry citing Smith himself: "You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed," the diary entry quotes Smith as saying. "It will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber." Not only will the Mormons save the Constitution, under the prediction, but the prophecy goes further, insinuating that Mormons will control the government. "Power will be given to the White Horse to rebuke the nations afar off, and you obey it, for the laws go forth from Zion," the prophecy says.
So, then, let's break it down? What are the "key" elements of the prophecy:
#1 The U.S. Constitution to be "almost destroyed."
#2 "It [the Constitution] will hang like a thread as fine as a silk fiber."
#3 The White Horse receives power to rebuke the nations
#4 The Law goes forth from "Zion" -- which Lds said is the Mormon church
BYU Studies (The Historians Corner) have also done us a "favor" in finding a similar Joseph Smith "prophecy" reference...cited mispellings & all:
We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction. (The Historians Corner, BYU Studies, Vol. 19, No. 3, p. 391-392)
The key overlap parts there is that
#1 The constitution is on the "brink of ruin" and the "verge of destruction"
#2 [No reference this time to "hang" or "fiber"]
#3 The nations are indeed involved again -- to be awakened...
#4 Instead of a "White Horse" reference or "Zion" reference, "this people" [meaning Mormons] "will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean..."
In case any doubt that later Lds "prophets" reinforced certain interpretations, here's what to-be Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith said at a General Conference in 1950:
The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us A CORRECT INTERPRETATION WHEREIN HE SAYS that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.) Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they dont save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government. - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
So...of the General Conference references, how many of these elements are contain references to
...the U.S. Constitution,
...hanging by a fiber,
or "this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction '" (Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70)
or "He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documentsthe Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. (Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85)
My position stands. The so-called book of Mormon is false gospel, ie, fiction. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Christianity or the Word of God.
Look up false prophets in KJV.
Must be a flaw (among many flaws) in my up-bringing.
From this apostate...I knew and worked for Reed Benson (ETBs son) and one day saw him in his office crying. When I asked him what was wrong, he told me that his dad didn’t even know him anymore and this was right after the LDS leadership lied from the pulpit during General Conference about how well ETB was doing. When I saw Steve’s letter the first time I knew he was telling the truth because his uncle (still faithful) said the same thing to me about a year before.
And the LDS have to say all apostates are lying because they don’t want to deal with the fact we tell the truth.
Thank you JR for standing for the truth. Most of us understand that your endorsement/support (grudgingly I might add) of Romney, was NOT in any way support of Mormonism or its doctrines.
However, I think that some LDS on here think that it was and expected that they could return to proselytizing Mormonism without any Christians being allowed to counter it.
God Bless you, sir.
Thank you Jim...
I have the highest respect for you and FR
God bless you and have a Happy Veterans Day..
Thanks for the reply, Jim. God doesn't see it as a flaw, but as wisdom.
Romney is now part of history. The Mormon factor is irrelevant at this point. Obama is our president for the next four years. We have to accept it. I ran into a woman at the community pool this morning when I took my 3 yr old grandson for a class. We chatted about Hurricane Sandy and then she used the words ‘those Republicans’ in reference to to her own sister disagreeing with her on storm cleanup.
My problem is I’m surrounded by dems here in PA, not Mormons.