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11 Reasons the Authority of Christianity Is Centered on St. Peter and Rome
stpeterslist ^ | December 19, 2012

Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer

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To: CynicalBear
I have been clear when using the word priest as it is used in the New Testament.

And you are sticking to English -- the English term "priest" is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros (presbyster/elder) -- these have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

The Elder (Presbuteros -- in english "priest", not hierus) is given the role of leadership

Christ is present during the Eucharist, thanks for acknowledging the True presence of Christ in the Eucharist, as do our Lutheran brethren

601 posted on 01/09/2013 6:48:40 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: CynicalBear

“is simply an attempt to inject a false impression.” - yes, your post is doing that — the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros (presbyster/elder) — these have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).


602 posted on 01/09/2013 6:49:11 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: CynicalBear
CB: Trying to restrict the presence of Christ to a single place and time is unscriptural and dishonest. -- good point, that's why the Eucharist is a participation of Christ's sacrifice which is for all eternity

The High Priest, Jesus Christ is the High Priest and the one-time Sacrifice -- note, this is a participation in the One-Time sacrifice famously captured by Van Eyck in the 14th century painting

We are participating in Christ's one-time sacrifice which as seen in the words of the Apocalypse of St. John of Patmos, as seen in Heaven is the Lamb standing proudly with the blood of Christ in the Eucharist

603 posted on 01/09/2013 6:53:41 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

MAry visited FAtima and comforted....


604 posted on 01/09/2013 6:57:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CynicalBear
Catholic history is replete with evidence of what they do to anyone who disagrees with their dogma.

Yup; they'll befuddle them...

605 posted on 01/09/2013 6:58:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos
These philosophies and yours die out, as they are built on sand, not solid bedrock, the solid bedrock of Christ, that orthodoxy is built on

See there; you DO know that PETER was not the foundation!

606 posted on 01/09/2013 6:59:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos

Bottom line. The Bereans checked with scripture to see if even what Paul and Silas taught was true. We DO have the writings of the apostles which even the Catholics believe to be scripture. We also have the same Spirit so will keep “searching the scriptures daily to see if what they teach is true”. Doing that we can easily find the RCC in error.


607 posted on 01/09/2013 7:03:03 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


608 posted on 01/09/2013 7:03:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Cronos

It should be easy for you to show from the New Testament the strict use of the Greek word for priest applied to the New Testament church leadership if it’s true. How about it?


609 posted on 01/09/2013 7:04:14 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos

Catholics may rely on pictures as scripture. I don’t.


610 posted on 01/09/2013 7:04:32 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos

ACTS 15


611 posted on 01/09/2013 7:04:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
Then: Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”


Now: Certain people came down from ROME to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are baptised, according to the custom taught by PETER, you cannot be saved.”

612 posted on 01/09/2013 7:07:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
>> Yup; they'll befuddle them...<<

LOL Is that what it’s called? I suppose since the Catholic Church has declared that the Muslims serve the same god as Catholics the Muslims now “befuddle” infidels? Infedels, heretics. I suppose it's all the same.

613 posted on 01/09/2013 7:21:01 AM PST by CynicalBear
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Comment #614 Removed by Moderator

To: CynicalBear
Nice try but I’ll stay with the intent of the language the apostles used

And the intent of the language that the apostles used is what's in the Apostolic Church and has been since the time of the Early Christians

it's rather funny for a johnny-come-lately to come along 2000 years later and thing he/she knows something that contradicts 2000 years. yeah, right....

very "progressive" of ya!

615 posted on 01/09/2013 7:22:59 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Iscool
And it was said in 'jest'

you mean like the claims to be Baptist, then to be a Pentecostal, then Modalist -- oh, yeah, when the Modalist "phase" was on, the mask slipped with a few "Jesus is just a prophet" statements

Tell us, what's the new phase this time?

616 posted on 01/09/2013 7:26:46 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Elsie
you'd have us believe that when Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church" the two clauses had nothing to do with each other, so the burden is on you to say why Christ included the first clause.

Matthew 16:13-18

13. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14. They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15. "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16. Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17. Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
18. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

It's not that the two CLAUSES are linked, but that two VERSES are.

That verses 17 and 19 are about Peter STILL doesn't explain why Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter". Did He think Peter had forgotten his name?

617 posted on 01/09/2013 7:26:46 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: Elsie
Elsie: Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Good for you, next will you be preaching " And the prophet J. Smith came with golden plates"?

618 posted on 01/09/2013 7:27:51 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: editor-surveyor
you'd have us believe that when Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church" the two clauses had nothing to do with each other, so the burden is on you to say why Christ included the first clause.

If you get away from the Greek translations that were prepared by the Nicolaitans, and read it from a direct translation from the original Hebrew to English, you can see that he told Peter that he was called a hard pebble, then the true meaning of the verse comes to light, and it is obvious that he who had been called “The Rock” for 1500 years was the head of the church.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Why is that?

I don’t answer agitprop.

A question is "agitprop"? What a cowardly evasion.

619 posted on 01/09/2013 7:28:40 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: Elsie; CynicalBear
Elsie: Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Remember that those preaching this were strictly sticking to the scripture in terms of what should be done

They didn't follow the Apostolic Tradition as first experienced by Peter on the clean and unclean and then expanded by Paul about no need for circumcision

So these folks from Judea talking sola scriptura were akin to your philosophies.

620 posted on 01/09/2013 7:31:42 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
Couldn’t find anything in the New Testament that uses the Greek word for priest applied to the New Testament church leadership ey?

Progressive? Going back to the original intent is progresive? Kind of like the liberals saying the original intent of the constitution is heretical.

621 posted on 01/09/2013 7:32:08 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos; Elsie
>> So these folks from Judea talking sola scriptura were akin to your philosophies.<<

And we know that the RCC is getting new revelations and teaching by Christ every year so we should listen to them right? snicker

622 posted on 01/09/2013 7:35:31 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Bottom line. The Bereans checked with scripture to see if even what Paul and Silas taught was true.

yup, with OT scripture

They took the Apostolic Tradition preached by Paul and Silas (handed down to them) and cross-verified with scripture

That's downright orthodox of them

instead, why does your philosophy reject the Berean way of accepting Christ's teachings handed down via the Apostolic Tradition?

Be like the Bereans

The Bereans did NOT stick to cynical personal interpretation and listened to Paul and Silas. They referred to scripture but accepted the ORAL teachings of Paul and Silas. And they believed.

The Thessalonians stuck to cynical personal interpretation and rejected the oral teachings of Paul and Silas.

623 posted on 01/09/2013 7:36:39 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
>>The Bereans did NOT stick to cynical personal interpretation and listened to Paul and Silas. They referred to scripture but accepted the ORAL teachings of Paul and Silas. And they believed.<<

But now we DO have the writings of the apostles as scripture and unlike the followers of the RCC we know that new revelation and teaching is NOT given to the RCC by Christ as it was to the apostles. Only Catholics, Mormons, Muslims and the like believe that there is new revelation.

624 posted on 01/09/2013 7:41:47 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
1 Tim. 5:17 17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

qui bene praesunt presbyteri duplici honore digni habeantur maxime qui laborant in verbo et doctrina

οι καλως προεστωτες πρεσβυτεροι διπλης τιμης αξιουσθωσαν μαλιστα οι κοπιωντες εν λογω και διδασκαλια

or Acts 15:6 συνηχθησαν δε οι αποστολοι και οι πρεσβυτεροι ιδειν περι του λογου τουτου
conveneruntque apostoli et seniores videre de verbo hoc

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros, which is commonly rendered into Bible English as "elder" or "presbyter.

take Acts 20:17-38
And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church./ a Mileto autem mittens Ephesum vocavit maiores natu ecclesiae

And 28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. / adtendite vobis et universo gregi in quo vos Spiritus Sanctus posuit episcopos regere ecclesiam Dei quam adquisivit sanguine suo

So, the presbuteros (priest in English) were made overseers of the flock, to feed the Church of God..

625 posted on 01/09/2013 7:52:05 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: CynicalBear
So I exhort the elders [presbyters] among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed: Tend the flock of God that is your charge, not by constraint but willingly, not for shameful gain but eagerly, not as domineering over those in your charge but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd is manifested you will obtain the unfading crown of glory. (1 Pet 5:1-4)

So, buddy boy, the Cynic's interpretation negating Christ's teachings on the royal priesthood of all believers with the elders/ministerial priesthood is utterly wrong.

626 posted on 01/09/2013 7:54:01 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
You do realise that it was editor-surveyer was the one saying it was written only in Hebrew, right?

I'm 100% sure he never said Matthew was written only in Hebrew ...

627 posted on 01/09/2013 7:55:42 AM PST by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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Comment #628 Removed by Moderator

To: dartuser
dartuser: I'm 100% sure he never said Matthew was written only in Hebrew ...

One thing that is absolutely certain at this point is that the original language of the gospels was Hebrew, not Greek.

Why don't you actually read before commenting?

I've noticed in all your posts, whether commenting on the Bible or here on other peoples comments, a lack of reading

it would be good to read the Bible for one. so many arguments on the scripture and Christianity without any knowledge or wisdom or prayerful meditation on Christ... tsk. tsk.

629 posted on 01/09/2013 8:06:18 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Natural Law
These councils were called in response to the Cathar and Albigenesian, which were using adulterated vernacular versions of the Bible that produced doctrines that were destructive to society and the individuals.

Oh, you mean more of those groups who your religion tortured and murdered for refusing to bow down to your popes...

And it's good to see a Catholic admit that there were other versions of the scriptures out there being spread about besides the Catholic version...

But you guys always fail to mention that those adulterated versions are the ones the early church fathers mostly quoted...And that those versions became known as the Received Texts, and the Masoretic Texts, and the Majority Texts...

AND, that these are the adulterated texts that Martin Luther used to write his bible in the vernacular...

And those original Greek texts were still being copied in Greek (not Latin) up thru the 10th century and beyond until they were ultimately translated into English...

There's an awful lot you guys leave out in your stories...

630 posted on 01/09/2013 8:07:56 AM PST by Iscool
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To: dartuser
And note that the person your post is defending also said that anyone that fails to repent of celebrating pagan days like christmas and easter will not find eternal life.
631 posted on 01/09/2013 8:09:14 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: NYer

should be centered on our very own Holy Spirit within... daaaa!...and the church has dropped the ball! A wonderfully wise Jew has picked it up though! fhu.com....


632 posted on 01/09/2013 8:09:21 AM PST by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo in laughter")
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To: dartuser
post 132: One thing that is absolutely certain at this point is that the original language of the gospels was Hebrew, not Greek.

There are passages in the Greek translations that were copied verbatum, rather than translating them logically for meaning, proving that it was specifically Hebrew from which the Greek gospels were copied. Hebrew puns and colloquy could not otherwise have found their way into the Greek copies. Had a Jewish author written them in Greek, they would certainly not have made such a stupid mistake.

Dart-user: I'm 100% sure he never said Matthew was written only in Hebrew ..

Are you also 100% certain of the other erroneous beliefs you have?

633 posted on 01/09/2013 8:12:54 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Iscool
Oh, you mean more of those groups who your

Still can't get over the defeats of the Reconquista and the Crusades, eh? tsk. tsk...

634 posted on 01/09/2013 8:13:48 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Iscool
iscool: these are the adulterated texts that Martin Luther used to write his bible in the vernacular...

Typical. Didn't another Moslem website go on about how they reject Christianity and the Bible as "adulterated texts"?

635 posted on 01/09/2013 8:15:11 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos
>>The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros, which is commonly rendered into Bible English as "elder" or "presbyter.<<

Not this again. So it’s “commonly rendered into Bible English as “elder” or “presbyter” but the Catholics would prefer the word priest so they just use that right? Let’s look at the interpretation of “presbuteros”.

Presbuteros
Definition: elder, usually used as subst.; an elder, a member of the Sanhedrin, an elder of a Christian assembly.

Now let’s look at the word used in the New Testament for priest.

Hebrews 4:14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest (archierea – only used for Christ in the New Testament) who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood (hierateuma – used for all believers), offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

I can’t seem to find any reference in the New Testament of any Church leader being referred to as a priest. They are referred to as elders/presbuteros (an elder is the older of two people). The term presbuteros is used 67 times in the New Testament.

Matthew 13
Mark 7
Luke 5
John 1
Acts 18
1 Timothy 4
Titus 1
Hebrews 1
James 1
1 Peter 2
2 John 1
3 John 1
Revelation 12
Now, the Greek word for priest are:

Kaiaphas – used for an Israelite High Priest
Hiereus - a priest, one who offers sacrifice to a god (in Jewish and pagan religions; of Christians only met.).

I still haven’t found a Greek word that means priest applied to the leadership in the New Testament church. I can find the leadership of the Jews and Pagans referred to as priests but not the leadership of the New Testament church.

So, once again, without using entomology could you please find from the New Testament where leadership in the church is called a priest.

636 posted on 01/09/2013 8:41:21 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
>>So I exhort the elders [presbyters] among you, as a fellow elder<<

No Greek word there meaning priest. Only through entomology does the RCC get to the use of priest. The only leadership positions in the New Testament called priest is Christ, the leaders of the Jewish religion, and Pagan leadership. So which is it?

“buddy boy” ey? You really need to calm down and read scripture instead of RCC propaganda.

637 posted on 01/09/2013 8:46:36 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos; Religion Moderator

Oh my. Accusing another freeper of lying?


638 posted on 01/09/2013 8:48:07 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
>> The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros,<<

Only through entomology which would make all early 1900’s people homosexuals. I think not.

639 posted on 01/09/2013 8:51:17 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
And this is apparent in the roles of the elders (Presbuteros), bishops etc. in the New Testament -- NOTE: the English term "priest" is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros (presbyster/elder) -- these have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

It certainly is not...That would be like you saying that in the language of the Catholics, a Chevy Corvair is the simple contraction of the words 'ice cream cone'...

It's not amazing that your religion makes these things up, but what's amazing is that some of you people actually seem to fall for it...

And BTW, you might want to study the duties and activities of the OT priesthood, and then study and try to figure out what it means that the 'veil of the temple' was ripped asunder...It really is enlightening...

640 posted on 01/09/2013 8:54:15 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
>>And BTW, you might want to study the duties and activities of the OT priesthood, and then study and try to figure out what it means that the 'veil of the temple' was ripped asunder...It really is enlightening...<<

Amen, Amen, and Amen!

641 posted on 01/09/2013 8:59:18 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Cronos
And also, the Berean Church included GREEKS -- who wouldn't have read the scriptures as they were not of Jewish origin, they took the Gospel for what Paul and Silas preached, tradition alone, not scripture.

Oh brother!!!

1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

Written NT scriptures to the Thessalonians and ALL the holy brethren...

Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

Written scripture to the Collosians and Ladodiceans...

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Written scripture to the Ephesians...

Man, invest in a bible, would ya???

642 posted on 01/09/2013 9:17:49 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Elsie; Cronos
These philosophies and yours die out, as they are built on sand, not solid bedrock, the solid bedrock of Christ, that orthodoxy is built on

See there; you DO know that PETER was not the foundation!

Quite a confession, eh???

643 posted on 01/09/2013 9:23:12 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Cronos
Always obfuscation with you ... ridicule ...

He said Hebrew came FIRST, not that Matthew was ONLY in Hebrew ... he's wrong ... but it fits your purpose.

it would be good to read the Bible for one ...

I have translated most of the NT ... this is not the undergrad forum you are on ...

644 posted on 01/09/2013 9:24:27 AM PST by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: Cronos
you mean like the claims to be Baptist, then to be a Pentecostal, then Modalist -- oh, yeah, when the Modalist "phase" was on, the mask slipped with a few "Jesus is just a prophet" statements

I don't believe I ever said I was a Baptist...I never said I was a Pentecostal...I never said I was a Modalist...You accused me of being a Modalist...

Why don't you just grow up and be an adult...

645 posted on 01/09/2013 9:28:26 AM PST by Iscool
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To: JustSayNoToNannies
That verses 17 and 19 are about Peter STILL doesn't explain why Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter". Did He think Peter had forgotten his name?

Jesus was saying that while you Peter are a rock, solid as a rock, albeit a little rock, I will build my church on this massive mountain of a rock, ME...

646 posted on 01/09/2013 9:34:23 AM PST by Iscool
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To: Iscool
That verses 17 and 19 are about Peter STILL doesn't explain why Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter". Did He think Peter had forgotten his name?

Jesus was saying that while you Peter are a rock, solid as a rock, albeit a little rock, I will build my church on this massive mountain of a rock, ME...

Why was it necessary to contrast Himself with Peter - who just one verse earlier acknwledged Him as "the Christ, the Son of the living God"?

647 posted on 01/09/2013 9:37:14 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: JustSayNoToNannies

Your attempt to replace Yeshua with a pagan proxy you call peter is definitely agitprop.

You must know well that you are usiong corrupted scriptures, and that the entire Bible declares Yeshua to be the Rock.

End the pagan agitprop please.


648 posted on 01/09/2013 9:42:17 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Cronos

The only part of the entire Bible that was originally written in any language but YHVH’s Hebrew is Daniel ch 4, which was written by Nebuchadnezar, who had no other language but that of Aram.

Please, no more pagan catholic agitprop.


649 posted on 01/09/2013 9:47:15 AM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
you'd have us believe that when Christ said, "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church" the two clauses had nothing to do with each other, so the burden is on you to say why Christ included the first clause.

If you get away from the Greek translations that were prepared by the Nicolaitans, and read it from a direct translation from the original Hebrew to English, you can see that he told Peter that he was called a hard pebble, then the true meaning of the verse comes to light, and it is obvious that he who had been called “The Rock” for 1500 years was the head of the church.

I notice you didn't answer my question. Why is that?

I don’t answer agitprop.

A question is "agitprop"? What a cowardly evasion.

Your attempt to replace Yeshua with a pagan proxy you call peter is definitely agitprop.

You're projecting - the agitprop is your gross mischaracterization of me as "attempting to replace Yeshua with a pagan proxy I call peter."

650 posted on 01/09/2013 9:47:34 AM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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