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Has modern Christianity formed a new Church? [vanity]

Posted on 01/10/2013 9:33:42 AM PST by MeOnTheBeach

Has modern Christianity formed a new Church?

I'll keep the journey into history simple. In the last 2000 years the churches large enough to survive the attacks by larger established churches could survive.

They were not civil nor peaceful. They conducted massive wars against each other.

However, over the last several decades, something different has happened, a new church has formed. All these churches that used to slaughter each other now accept the baptisms and membership performed by their one time rivals.

Individual doctrines no longer matter. Their adherents now claim everyone is "saved" in the body of Christ. Modern Christianity has even brought new scripture with them. The various "new" translations of the Bible.

They've changed doctrine too.

So, would this be considered a new Church? Instead of a thousand individual religions, there is now just one Church?

Thoughts?


TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: christianchurch; christianity; church; vanity
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To: MeOnTheBeach
Is there a distinction now between the churches?

Is there a reason to actually be a Catholic? Or to be a Baptist?

to the former, yes, still

But many of the earliest non-catholic Churches are discovering they have a lot more with the Church than with liberal members of their own denominations

But the gulf between orthodoxy and, say Lutheranism, is small

The gulf between orthodoxy and the Baptist creed is quite large, but still within the bounds of Trinitarian Christianity

But, the distance between Baptists/Catholics and Oneness Pentecostals who deny the Trinity is very large for example, insurmountable.

51 posted on 01/11/2013 1:28:18 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Fiji Hill; MeOnTheBeach; Tzar
That was another tragic incident which was to a large extent more ethnic than religious.

Since the collapse of the Western Empire, the West had descended in the eyes of the East to utter barbarism

They stopped speaking the same language -- Latin was not understood in the 11th century in the East and very few in the West understood Greek, indeed the literacy levels in the West were abysmal compared to the East

Culturally and politically they were also quite distinct

The Venetians were the cause of the 4th C tragedy -- they were, until the 10th century a part of the Byzantine Empire and shrugged it off while keeping their trading ties

in time they became an economic rival to the Byzantines, keeping troops and colonies in Byzantine areas

The Byzantines, government and people, didn't like this and it lead to the "slaughter of the Latins" 10 years before the 4th C

Venice waited for its revenge -- it could not stand up to the Byzantines militarily, so it diverted the attention of the Germanic 4th crusaders to Byzantium

The Byzantines were appalled at the sight of the dirty, barbaric hordes from the west. Perhaps some of them compared these to the Caliphate who were Romanized and well, cleaner and wondered if it was worth it

Anyway, the westerners felt they were not treated well -- they were probably expecting to be treated as saviors, while they weren't treated that way and it took little for the Venetians to divert their attention and to sack Constantinople

This was among the most shameful of Christian on Christian acts and one for which I (who normally think apologizing for centuries past events is silly) fully agree with Pope JP II who begged for forgiveness for this.

As Christians we have shamefully not stood together and have fallen to the common enemy -- the 4th C and then in the Crimean War when Anglican England and Catholic France fought on the side of the Moslem Turks against our Christian brethren and in the 1683 siege of Vienna when Calvinist Hungarians fought on the side of Moslem Turks against Catholic Hungarians, Austrians, Poles-Lithuanians-Ruthenians, Croats etc. (just as a historical note -- the Moslem Tartars fighting in the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth army were very loyal in the fight against the Turks even though they even shared a similar language - Turkic)

52 posted on 01/11/2013 1:38:23 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: MeOnTheBeach
, is there a difference between being a Lutheran vs a Baptist vs a Catholic?

Between a Lutheran and a Catholic , there is little difference any more. There still ARE differences, but not the yawning gulf that once was

Between Lutherans and Baptists there is a yawning gulf

53 posted on 01/11/2013 1:39:16 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: MeOnTheBeach
can this radical change in approach by these churches and a meshing of their acceptance of one another be considered a new church?

No.

There will be one group led by the ECUSA which is the "gay liberal kirk"

There seems to be increasing unity between Catholics and Orthodox -- God willing and perhaps more unity with the orthodoxy Lutherans and Anglicans and Methodists and Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians and Assyrians

There will be some kind of Baptist-Pentecostal unity or perhaps a separate Baptist and Pentecostal, but these are too diverse even in each term to constitute one Church.

54 posted on 01/11/2013 1:41:53 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: MeOnTheBeach
The belief is that most "Protestants" are in communion with the Church (Orthodox and Catholics are so close as to be nearly the same)

And definitely not that if you are not, you go to heck.

55 posted on 01/11/2013 1:45:28 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Tzar

Well in regards to when a non-Catholic Christian who disires to enter into the Catholic Church, it is rather based on it accepting the baptism from that church in order to gain acceptance.


56 posted on 01/11/2013 3:57:14 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Cronos

The general rule is that it goes by the baptism that the seperate Christian church does.


57 posted on 01/11/2013 3:58:51 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Cronos

What you were describing could be said that when Blessed JPII asked for the forgiveness of the Eastern Orthodox Christians for what took place during the time of the crusades, the sacking of Constantinople, what took place back then was the “worse” example of when Christian brother fought against Christian brother.


58 posted on 01/11/2013 4:09:48 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: MeOnTheBeach

It is based upon what is considered to be the updated RCIA set up.


59 posted on 01/11/2013 4:20:10 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: kidd

The only question I do have is that, in the event where in regards to number 3, as long as there is the intention to marry for life as well as to be faithful, what about those who are beyond the ability to have children, by age or medical reason? I would think the most likely thing is to express fruitfulness via a life of doing good.


60 posted on 01/11/2013 4:26:28 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl
what took place back then was the “worsT” example of when Christian brother fought against Christian brother.

Thats disputable -- I'd put it in the top 3 yes, along with the Crimean War and the Siege of Vienna

in MY mind the worst was the Crimean war -- willingly two major Christian powers allied themselves with a Moslem power against a Christian power. That was utterly despicable.

61 posted on 01/11/2013 4:33:20 AM PST by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

I think that war, the Crimean war was started over the issue of the Church of the Nativity of Jesus, the site where Jesus was born. This is the shrine where the “star” is located.


62 posted on 01/11/2013 5:02:55 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: kidd
The Catholic Church doesn't recognize protestant marriages.

Untrue. Strictly speaking, we "recognize" all marriages, as long as both parties are actually capable of marrying. (We don't recognize divorce, so divorced-and-remarried folks fail the "capable of marrying" test.). A marriage between two Hindus is "recognized" by the Church, but it's a "natural marriage", not a sacramental one.

A marriage between two validly-baptized Christians is recognized as a sacrament. Since most Protestants are validly baptized, most Protestant marriages (again, where both parties are capable of marrying according to the church) are recognized as sacramental, just as the marriage of two Catholics would be.

What you may be thinking of is the Church law which does not recognize a marriage contracted by a Catholic in a non-Catholic ceremony without church permission.

63 posted on 01/11/2013 5:57:47 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Cronos; Tzar

A civil wedding between two validly-baptized Protestants (with no living ex-spouses, etc.) would be both valid and sacramental. A civil wedding involving a Catholic would not be.


64 posted on 01/11/2013 6:04:48 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Campion; kidd
Strictly speaking, we "recognize" all marriages, as long as both parties are actually capable of marrying.

Given the extreme perversity of XXI Century America, I suppose it has to be said that of the two parties proposing to marry, one only must be male and one only must be female. Two male individuals, or two female individuals, cannot marry each other. The acceptance and celebration of such perversion in some parts of what might loosely be called Christendom is an act of apostasy and a huge barrier to Christian unity.

65 posted on 01/11/2013 6:09:27 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Right. To be perfectly clear, both parties must be capable of marrying (in the abstract) and also capable of marrying each other. Any grouping other than one man and one woman fails the latter test.


66 posted on 01/11/2013 6:16:41 AM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Biggirl
yes. It's a horrible fact that in Jerusalem you'll see the worse, unholy bickering.

But the Crimean war appalls me because 2 western powers used Christianity as a pretext to fight alongside the Moslems AGAINST Christians.

no wonder Orthodox see a madness -- and I agree with them

67 posted on 01/11/2013 8:01:09 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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To: Campion; Tzar

Campion — thanks for clarifying. I, of course, was thinking of two Catholics only, because I remember that there was a guy who got a civil marriage here in Poland, had a kid, then divorced and still got a Church marriage. In the eyes of the Church I guess he was unmarried and the other “purely civil union” marriage was not valid.


68 posted on 01/11/2013 8:02:58 AM PST by Cronos (Middle English prest, priest, Old English pruost, Late Latin presbyter, Latin presbuteros)
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To: Cronos

That is why for years, until the time of Blessed JPII and now with Pope BXVI, the Orthodox are slowly begining to have what looks like fruitfull talks.


69 posted on 01/11/2013 8:15:37 AM PST by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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