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Who Owns the Copyright to All Creation?
ConstitutionallySpeaking.Wordpress ^ | Jan 18, 2013 | ConstitutionallySpeaking

Posted on 01/18/2013 11:45:12 AM PST by patlin

John 1:3 tells us “all came to be through Him, and without Him not even one came to be that came to be”. In verse 4 we are told “in Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind”, therefore on the pashat, the literal level of the meaning of this passage, what this is saying is that His Word equals life for all mankind.

But now we must back up. Who created the Word? Who gave life to the Word?

Creation for we, the physical realm began ‘in the beginning’, in Genesis 1:1 but for the Father, creation began in His spiritual mind and thus the biography of mankind in the physical realm was born well before it came to be in the flesh. We see this kind of thing taking place in the physical realm daily. Let me explain.

An author writes a book and then some movie producer picks up on it and thinks to himself, ‘this would make a great movie’. And thus the 3-d version of the book is brought to life.

Now this begs the question? Who is the one who owns the original copyright of this book now turned into life, the author of the book or the movie producer who made it come to life? Do all royalties from the movie go to the producer or does the author still continue to own the original copyright and therefore reap royalties as long as the movie continues to sell?

Well today, sadly many authors sell out their right for a one time, looks good payment of money and then the movie producer is now at liberty to change, to take away or to add to the original text of the book. So is this also true of God’s Word? Did He sell His copyright to the Son so that the Son could bring life to all mankind in a way that seems right in the eyes of the Son? Two of the several witnesses in the Brit Hadasha testify to us as to whether or not this is true. John 10:18 “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to receive it again. This command I have received from My Father”. 1Co 6:20 “For you were bought with a price, therefore esteem Elohim in your body and in your spirit, which are of Elohim”.

So as it is here, it continues as we read and study the Brit Hadasha. We see that the Son did not take liberties with the already conceived Word of the Father, but remained faithful to the original Word that was born in the Spiritual mind of the Father.

But this process of an original author and then later a producer is not just manifest in books and movies; it is evident in every aspect of our daily lives in the products we use. There is an original concept born in the mind of an inventor, a patent is then procured for that product and then the minute details are then given to a manufacturer who brings that patent to life so to speak. And while the manufacturer reaps benefits from the original patented product, the original patent still belongs to the one who gave birth to the concept of the product and thus the manufacturer is constantly subject to the original owner as long as that product is being produced by the manufacturer.

Now the same holds true for manufactured products as does the book. The original can be sold for a price thereby forgoing any and all future royalties of said product for a one-time payment in full for the patent to the product.

In 1 Cor 15:28, Paul reveals to us that the original copyright of creation has always remained with the Father, “And when all are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself shall also be subject to Him who put all under Him, in order that Elohim be all in all”. The Son, the producer, was and is always subject to the original book and at no time was the Son given liberty to add to or to take away from the instructions given in the original copyrighted book. This is evidenced to Paul in the words of the Son in Mt 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done”.

And this copyright ownership was not revealed just at this one time during the Sermon on the Mount, but it was also reinforced when it was repeated to John in the closing of His book of life, Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the heaven saying, “See, the Booth of Elohim is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and Elohim Himself shall be with them and be their Elohim … 7 The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Elohim and he shall be My son … 18 For I witness to everyone hearing the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to them, Elohim shall add to him the plagues that are written in this book, 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, Elohim shall take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the set-apart city, which are written in this Book”.

Now notice the 2 distinct retributions, the former is punishment of suffering plagues and the latter speaks of those who diminishes His authority by diminishing His Word, he is the one who suffers eternal death. The one who says that this part or that part of His Book does not pertain to certain members of His creation should seriously, very seriously take heed these Words of His Book in Rev 22:19.

It matters not who speaks for the Father, the Son or we, the sons and daughters, the original copyright and its royalties have always remained with the Father and will always remain with the Father. Therefore, no one, no not one, not even the Son has ever had the liberty to make changes, to substitute one people for another, to release instructions when the Father had not released them, etc.

The Son, by the authority of the Father was granted the authority to shed His blood for our sins, therefore all royalties from that blood belong to the Father and what are the royalties? They are our lives, given to the Father through the Son by the authority of the Father given to the Son.

This is why we are told to ‘count the cost’. Are we willing to give, that is to subject our entire being to the Father according to the script of His Book that He revealed through the Son, the producer who has no authority to make even the tiniest of changes to the script or have we become partakers in the stealing of the script of His copyrighted Book by making changes to it that He did not authorize?

Who holds the royalties of your life? The true original owner who never relinquished those royalties or the one who first made himself manifest in the garden, the liar, the stealer of the copyrighted Book that originally belonged to the Father? As it was then, it still remains today, the lie continues …

“If you sin, if you eat that which He told you not to eat, you will not reeeally die”

There has been no greater lie told since the beginning of the production of His Book, as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end, a world that really has no end as His Book truly has no end, but concludes with a revelation of the eternal life to come that was promised to mankind the day He breathed life into them, the life being His Word that put on flesh. He knows all the characters in the 2nd production to come but we do not, and that is why we must all ‘count the cost’ and then upon taking the oath, the confessing of the Son, we are legally bound to the terms of the original copyrighted Book, just as the Son was lest we one day find ourselves in front of Him hearing these words,

Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’” [Mt 7:22-23]

So to reiterate the point, the Son’s blood was not a ‘one-time payment’ for all royalties on the original copyright so that we all now own the copyright therefore allowing us to go and do what is right in our own eyes. And to prove this we need only to revisit the words of Messiah in Mt 5:17 in their proper context of Mt 5:17-20.

Mat 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete. 18 For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done. 19 Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commands, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the reign of the heavens.”

The Father in the Son, the Son in the Father and the Son in us therefore, the Father in us as it has been from the beginning. The Son came to complete the production of His Father’s Book and therefore, there has been no breach of contract between the Father and the Son and if we are true to the Word, then there should also be no evidence of any breach of contract between We and the Father, the possessor of the original contract. This Book of the Father is still in the stage of production, therefore the contract between the Father and the Son is still valid.

Blessed are those persecuted for righteousness’ sake, because theirs is the reign of the heavens

As long as there is breathe in us, His breathe, it is never too late to exit ‘stage left out in the cold’ and return to His ‘stage of righteousness’. This is the plea of the Son. He wants us all in His production of His Father's Book of Creation, the Father's Book of Life!


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To: BereanBrain

The Trinity is understandable, but the trick is not to read into Scripture.

FWIW, there also are plenty of verses indicating all of Creation was made by the Son.


21 posted on 01/18/2013 5:19:49 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: patlin
Who Owns the Copyright to All Creation?

I don't know, but in the first Batman comic book the Toyman copyrighted the alphabet and nobody could use it without his permission.

22 posted on 01/18/2013 5:21:39 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: patlin
Who created the Word? Who gave life to the Word?

What an absurd question for anyone who considers themselves a Trinitarian.

In the beginning the Word WAS (John 1:1). Actually, that 'was' is in the imperfect tense indicating continuing action in the past i.e. at the beginning.

The word always was. Contrary statements are heresy.

23 posted on 01/18/2013 6:06:00 PM PST by newberger (Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men in whom there is no salvation.)
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To: patlin
Who created the Word? Who gave life to the Word?

What an absurd question for anyone who considers themselves a Trinitarian.

In the beginning the Word WAS (John 1:1). Actually, that 'was' is in the imperfect tense indicating continuing action in the past i.e. at the beginning.

The Word always was. Contrary statements are heresy.

24 posted on 01/18/2013 6:06:37 PM PST by newberger (Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men in whom there is no salvation.)
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To: patlin

I thought it was Open Source?


25 posted on 01/18/2013 6:08:18 PM PST by Little Ray (Waiting for the return of the Gods of the Copybook Headings.)
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To: BereanBrain
The Disciples were NOT “learned” men, for a reason. They had not been “taught” the “right” way to think.

I would suggest a more careful study of Paul's life. If you want to say "Paul was not a disciple" then perhaps a more careful study of other disciples as well. John was well known in the rabbinical community (it was he who got Peter into the inner court) and his mother was pushing for both James and John's success. Matthew was a tax collector so he must have know how to handle finances. Peter (along with James and John) ran a successful fishing business so much so that he owned a house.

Sorry but I don't buy that these disciples were just county bumpkins and neither do historians. Many of Christ's disciples were educated for their times and moderately successful just like any working stiff today. What they gave up for the cause of Christ was real and tangible.

But I would agree that they were not "taught" the "right" way to think. It is ONLY when God illuminate our eyes that we can see the truth. But God does not do this for everyone.

If you accept Sola Scriptura then there is simply no way of denying the clear teachings of Christ that some things are hidden from some people while God reveals them to others. It simply states this.

Romans 1:20 says that EVERYTHING you want to know about the Divine Nature of the Godhead, can be seen in the things God has made.

Romans 1 also states that although everything you wanted to know about God has been visible BUT even though THEY KNEW GOD THEY DID NOT HONOR HIM AS GOD OR GIVE THANKS TO HIM. So their minds become darkened. That is our nature.

This is why people who grew up and NEVER heard the name Jesus can be saved

This is a first. I suppose next you're going to tell me that good meaning Muslims who never heard about Jesus can be saved?

I believe in Sola Scriptura ...

If so then you need to remember...

And if you truly believe you don't need "professional" men instructing you, then I would suggest you recall Ezra:

Only the word of God is infallible and inerrant. While you may not want to take stock in other people's interpretations, I'd be careful to ensure that your own are not tainted. There have been many, many heretics who believed they were correctly interpreting the truth.

26 posted on 01/18/2013 6:10:30 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: patlin
I always use the following:

I believe that to be more specific as to what Christians should do.

27 posted on 01/18/2013 6:59:00 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
I believe that to be more specific as to what Christians should do

I do to, but the bigger question is, how does one define what it means to ‘walk humbly’ with ones God as there is no gate with the name of ‘Christian’ in the new Temple that comes down from the heavens. There are only 12 gates and upon them are the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. (Eph 2:11-22)

28 posted on 01/18/2013 7:54:40 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin
There are only 12 gates and upon them are the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. (Eph 2:11-22)

Gentiles are considered part of Israel:

And for those who simply cannot fathom that Gentiles are part of Israel, I would point out the salvation of widow Zarephath and Naaman. (Luke 4:25-27) Being a member of the 12 tribes is a matter of the heart-not a physical descendant.

As for which tribe we belong to, like everything else the 12 tribes of Israel were corrupt. God will reconstitute the 12 tribes. I don't mean to post such a long passage but it does explain it here:

How we are all graphed into the new 12 tribes of Israel I'm not sure. But if God can create the universe then I suspect it won't be difficult for Him to get us to stand is twelve lines. With our adoption comes placement into His family.
29 posted on 01/19/2013 3:59:28 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

Paul was the ONLY learned of the Disciples. The others were common men, fishers and such. FACT.

Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. It’s by Him people are saved. So I suppose you can KNOW who knows and follows another person? It’s Jesus who determines who is saved, not us. Not by reading a book, or attending church, or doing good works. We should NOT JUDGE, especially the eternal things.

I wonder why Jesus never taught on the 5 points. And why the Church was “lost” until the reform....Obviously it was not, it’s just that hypercalvinist reforms measure all things by the Reformation not the Resurrection.

There is nothing wrong with studying the things of God. What is wrong is somehow creating a special set of structure other than what scripture teaches.
This was done in Jesus’ day, in the Roman Catholic Church, and the Protestant Church today.

As I stated earlier, the Disciples DID NOT attend Seminary. They didn’t speak in “Religious” terms.

As far as a Muslim being saved, he must not continue to place his faith in Islam, and listen to the General Revelation. If the man never met a Christian, God would give him all the information he needs to be saved. However, it is the PRIVILEDGE of a Christian to share his faith with such a one. We are God’s ambassadors.

One last point: Just about all the true men of God have been called Heretics and put to death. By the “Church”.

God is not interested in the corruption we have made of religion. He is interested in us, our souls and our hearts, our worship and our repentance. He is not interested in our works, or our sacrifices. They are rags to a perfect God. It is by His grace we are allowed to contribute to the Kingdom.


30 posted on 01/19/2013 4:28:07 PM PST by BereanBrain
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To: HarleyD
I fully understand that we are grafted into Israel. Paul explains it very well in Eph 2 & Rm 11, so it puzzles me that the ‘church’ considers itself separate from Judah as Judah is but one tribe of Israel in which Messiah is the head of Israel, all of Jabob. (see Isa 49:1-6)

Paul also states in Eph 2:11-22 that once we confess Yeshua as Messiah, we are no longer gentiles, but fellow citizens of Israel and partakeers of ALL the covenantS of promise that were made from the beginning. We are equal heirs amd sons and daughters of the house of God.

The term ‘gentile(s)/nation(s)s’ simply means one is who not of God’s covenant, old or new, so this also puzzles me as to why the ‘church’ still considers itself Israel,other than the fact that the early church fathers were anti0semetic and hated everything Jewish because it did not fit their plan of growth for the church.

So if we are sons and daughters and are to be working on being transformed to look like the Son according to the path given through Moses, why are we taught from the ‘church’ doctrines and traditions to reject everything that defines what a son or daughter is to look like and act like?

31 posted on 01/19/2013 5:50:08 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: HarleyD

Another point on the grafting in.

In the account of the Exodus & Wilderness journey we see a man named Caleb chosen as the one to lead the tribe of Judah. Caleb was not of Israeli blood, his father was a Canaanite. It was Caleb’s confessing Yahweh as God as Savior and following His Ways completely that deamed Caleb worthy to be called a ‘son’ and he was only one of two (Joshua being the other) of the original millions that left Egypt who actually entered into the promised land. These two represent ‘the remnant’ of the end days.

Narrow is the gate and few find it, Many are called but few are chosen. Why? Because it is easier to look like the ‘nations’ than to be ‘set-apart’ as to stand out from all others, including ones family which Messiah twice told us would happen so we must count the cost first. Are we willing to stand in the same position as Himself and all the disciples who were killed for standing steadfast in the covenant spoken at Mt Sinai by Yeshua Messiah to Moses. (Acts 7:37-39, Heb 3:7-4:13)


32 posted on 01/19/2013 6:04:47 PM PST by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: BereanBrain
I wonder why Jesus never taught on the 5 points.

Hmmmmm.....

Total Depravity...

Unconditional Election...

Limited Atonement...

Irresistable Grace...

Preseverance of the Saints...

These are just a few of the verses. I wouldn't be so hasty to say such a thing. One of the things I've learned is that you cannot truly understand the book of John without understanding the TULIP.
33 posted on 01/19/2013 6:15:35 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

Don’t forget the good Doctor, Luke.


34 posted on 01/19/2013 8:40:14 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Cvengr

Good point. Along with Barnabus, Apollos, and Lydia. The list goes on.

I think we underestimate these wonderful people who sacrificed everything (including in many cases their lives) for the cause of Christ. Peter, James and John ran a successful fishing operation of which they tried to return to after Christ’s death. But in the end they heard the calling and gave up the security of their occupation to feed Christ’s sheep.


35 posted on 01/20/2013 2:45:18 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: patlin
...why the ‘church’ still considers itself Israel,other than the fact that the early church fathers were anti0semetic and hated everything Jewish because it did not fit their plan of growth for the church.

I'm not sure where you got your information (although this view does circulate among Catholics in particular). The early fathers were in fact Jewish fathers. These include Peter, James, John, Paul, etc. The first council (the Jerusalem Council) was comprised of Jewish fathers. When Protestants tried to figured out which books of scriptures were suppose to be included in the inerrant word of God, they went back to the Hebrew fathers for guidance. The idea that the earlier Gentile fathers were anti-semetics is nonsense. This comes from dispensationalists who attempt to discredit the idea that Gentiles have been grafted into Israel as is plainly stated in Romans 9. This is something early Gentile fathers taught as well as Paul.

Why does the church consider itself Israel? I can give you my understanding. The Israel of the scripture is a physical type for the spiritual church. It shows to the spiritual church all the good blessing of God as well as the consequences of sin. Part of Jewish believers (a remnant) made up Israel as well as Gentile believers (e.g. Caleb, Ruth, Rahab, etc.). This has been merged by God into the true Israel-the church, although there are still unbelievers (tares) within the framework of the church. It is not perfect-yet.

I believe the Old Testament to be woefully overlooked by today's church. These aren't "moral" stories but actual practice of living given to us by God. The OT acts of living are the doctrines of the NT put into the context of a living world. There are parallels between the physical Israel of yesteryear and the spiritual Israel of today.

why are we taught from the ‘church’ doctrines and traditions to reject everything that defines what a son or daughter is to look like and act like?

I'm not sure what you are talking about when you state that we are to reject everything that defines what a son or daughter should act like. And certainly most of the Protestants on this board would not agree that we are taught from "church" doctrines. We are constantly arguing about "sola scriptura" (scripture alone).

How we should act is laid out in scripture. Do justice. Love kindness. Walk humbly with God. Love God. Love one another. This is what defines us as sons/daughters of God. These are doctrinal values of the New Testament. How they are applied in the context of the living world can be found in the Old.

36 posted on 01/20/2013 3:25:49 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: BereanBrain; HarleyD
Romans 1:20 says that EVERYTHING you want to know about the Divine Nature of the Godhead, can be seen in the things God has made.

Absolutely.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

One of "things that are made" are us. In other words, the divine nature can be perceived in us, in our bodies. So what does that reveal about the Godhead?

The biggest thing that jumps out about the human body is duality.

Two halves of a body. Two ears. Two eyes, two nostrils. Two feet. Two hands. Two arms. Two legs. Internally we have right brain and left brain. Two lungs. Two kidneys.

Duality in the body. The same thing occurs in most of animal world. How about sexes? Two sexes, male and female. In nature TWO, or duality, is the overwhelming number seen in creation.

In scripture it's the same. In heavenly realm there is never a "person" in the Godhead named "holy spirit". There is the father and the son:

Dan 7:13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.
Dan 7:14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.

Father and son. Two.

Heb_8:1 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,

In the book of Revelation there are many visions of heaven. We can see the father and son sitting on thrones. Surrounding the thrones are a host of angelic beings. But nowhere is there a person referred to or called the "holy spirit" in heaven...in the Godhead.

So if we filter out religion the overwhelming attribute of divinity is two, not three. Our bodies and nature practically scream it. We ARE without excuse.

37 posted on 01/20/2013 4:20:57 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; BereanBrain
Father and son. Two.

Er....ok if that's what you believe but it is not scriptural.

Attributes of the Holy Spirit:

• He Teaches: John 14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (NIV)

• He Testifies of Christ: John 15:26 When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. (NIV)

• He Convicts: John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt [Or will expose the guilt of the world] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: (NIV)

• He Leads: Romans 8:14 Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (NIV)

• He Reveals Truth: John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (NIV)

• He Strengthens and Encourages: Acts 9:31 Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace. It was strengthened; and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it grew in numbers, living in the fear of the Lord. (NIV)

• He Comforts: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; (KJV)

• He Helps Us in our Weakness: Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. (NIV)

• He Intercedes: Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. (NIV)

• He Searches the Deep Things of God: 1 Corinthians 2:11 The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. (NIV)

• He Sanctifies: Romans 15:16 To be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (NIV)

• He Bears Witness or Testifies: Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (KJV)

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. (NIV)

• He Forbids: Acts 16:6-7 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. (NIV)

• He Can be Lied to: Acts 5:3 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? (NIV)

• He Can be Resisted: Acts 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!" (NIV)

• He Can be Blasphemed: Matthew 12:31-32 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (NIV)

• He Can be Quenched: 1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit. (NKJV)

38 posted on 01/20/2013 5:37:59 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; BereanBrain
Father and son. Two. Er....ok if that's what you believe but it is not scriptural.

Sure it is. The first disciples believed in the divinity of the father and the son. History and any good Catholic will tell you that the trinity doctrine was due to progressive revelation to their church. It was not official church doctrine until hundreds of years after the death of Christ.

That explains why Paul, in every letter he wrote that can be attributed to him, only sent greetings from the divine members of the Godhead, the father and son:

Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ,

Eph 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Php 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are in Colosse: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:1 Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Ti 1:2 To Timothy, a beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tit 1:4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

Phm 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

This would be quite an oversight if Paul believe there was a person called "the holy spirit" in the Godhead. But he didn't believe this because he knew that scripture doesn't record it.

39 posted on 01/20/2013 7:20:51 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; BereanBrain
Please review your references and theology. Paul taught the Holy Spirit endwelled believers (my quotes). There would be no need for Paul to say "Grace to you and peace from God our Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit". This would not only be redundant but it contradicts Paul's teachings that the Holy Spirit indwells us and continuously imparts grace in us. The Father and the Son do not indwell us. Believers ALREADY have the Spirit and that Spirit is giving them grace and peace.

There are many quotes by Paul (as well as our Lord) referring to the Holy Spirit as a person:

Paul refers to the Spirit as a person and this person ("who") comes from God the Father. Paul signs off his letter to the Corinthians properly referring to all three:

Paul lists all three but more importantly Paul talks about the "fellowship" of the Holy Spirit. You can't have fellowship with some cosmic goo. That is precisely why Paul does not refer to the Holy Spirit in his greetings-simply because we already are experiencing fellowship with the Spirit and that Spirit is a "He" and a "WHO", not a "THING". You have fellowship with people.

This, btw, is WHY it is important to study the teachings of those who come before us as well as the scriptures; to avoid serious errors like this.

40 posted on 01/21/2013 3:19:18 AM PST by HarleyD
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