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A good friend is considering joining the Jehovah's Witnesses. What should he worry about?
Freerepublic ^ | 1/31/2013 | Me

Posted on 01/31/2013 8:44:30 PM PST by Dallas59

When I come by my friends house they are always there. They are polite to me but act like I'm interfering. Anyone here associated with them or been to their church? Thanks.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: jehovahswitnesses; jws; witnesses
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To: Bulwyf
They are a cult,

I always thought a cult was a group having a charismatic leader, attracts followers who are in some way disenfranchised from the mainstream of society and collapses upon loss of the charismatic leader. Because the JWs have survived multiple leadership changes, I think it more accurate to view them as a sect.

they are not saved,

I thought only God knows who is and is not saved. Why do you believe they are not saved?

anything not saved is a cult, there’s no gray area here.

From where do you get your definition of cult?

51 posted on 01/31/2013 9:28:38 PM PST by fso301
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To: Dallas59
Tell your friend "You are not an adult and are incapable of making a decision that will affect your eternal life. Here are what strangers think about your choice........".

If your life is not a witness to the greatness of Christ and his sacrifice for you, why should she pay any attention to what you have to say?

52 posted on 01/31/2013 9:29:33 PM PST by Starstruck (All goverments become tyrannical. Individuals determine when they do.)
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To: Dallas59

“What should he worry about?”

People who let big dogs loose when JW cultists knock on the door.

[well, you asked]


53 posted on 01/31/2013 9:36:07 PM PST by Salamander (We're all kinds of animals comin' round here...occasional demons, too.)
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To: Dallas59

It’s a cult. Jesus is a god but not coequal to Jehovah..

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r005.html


54 posted on 01/31/2013 9:36:37 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Miguel Alberto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_witness

Both groups like to predict the “end times”

Yes, they are different but — I know that there is cross over between the two groups.

55 posted on 01/31/2013 9:40:06 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
whoops did not post the right links, but still, any research of Jehovah's Witness or 7th Day Adventists shows they are both obsessed with predicting the “end times”
56 posted on 01/31/2013 9:42:05 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
whoops did not post the right links, but still, any research of Jehovah's Witness or 7th Day Adventists shows they are both obsessed with predicting the “end times”
57 posted on 01/31/2013 9:42:08 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: Dallas59

Have your friend start here -> http://www.bible.ca/jw.htm

Love in Christ,
Meeky


58 posted on 01/31/2013 9:47:41 PM PST by MeekMom
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To: Charles Henrickson
But they are the real fools, from God’s perspective, because they are rejecting the one and only Savior that God has sent.

Matt 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell."

59 posted on 01/31/2013 9:53:41 PM PST by fso301
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To: Dallas59

Last I checked, they reject the Uncreated Divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

That in itself is a big enough reason to be concerned. The heavy cultish aspects do not help one bit either.


60 posted on 01/31/2013 9:56:58 PM PST by MWS
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To: Kansas58

My wife is a 7th Day Adventist. She’s a great person and noting about her faith resembles your characterization.


61 posted on 01/31/2013 9:59:33 PM PST by Royal Wulff
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To: Dallas59

I studied with them for a short time


62 posted on 01/31/2013 10:00:13 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: fso301
Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Nicene Creed, which is considered to be what defines Christian belief by Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants alike. Historically speaking, that in itself is understood to mean a lack of proper faith, which all three primary Christian branches of thought agree is essential to salvation. I'll bold the part with which they are in conflict:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I should add that Jehovah's Witnesses also believe that all non-Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell too, so it's not like the sentiment is one-sided...

63 posted on 01/31/2013 10:05:49 PM PST by MWS
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To: Dallas59
I know they don't believe in celebrating birthdays, or giving presents. My ex-husband had no religious beliefs while I was married to him. He drank alcohol and smoked dope with the people he worked with. He was a special ed teacher in Rochester, NY when we first married. He became a Jehovah's Witness after we separated and divorced. He was (and probably still is) a philanderer, and pathological liar. He married a divorced woman who had been a Catholic. Her son from her first marriage left the home once he was legally old enough to do so. He went to live with his maternal grandparents.

My youngest son couldn't stand to visit them. They threw out all his record albums because they didn't approve of the music he was listening to. My son told me one of the main reasons her son left the home was because he wasn't able to play sports or attend school events.

My ex hasn't had contact with our two sons for many years. I've been divorced since '79, and my kids are in their 40's now. My ex moved to S.C. sometime in the late 90's. Never bothered to inform our children. I found out about the move accidentally when I took my car to a Midas Muffler shop and they checked their database to see if my name was in it. My ex's name popped up with a S.C. address.

64 posted on 01/31/2013 10:06:55 PM PST by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: HereInTheHeartland
sil grew up JW and his mother still is...he's pretty much agnostic....

his mother has little to do with him....disavows him because he doesn't still "belong"....its a sadness that he carries his whole life IMO....she wouldn't even come to his wedding.....

65 posted on 01/31/2013 10:11:04 PM PST by cherry
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To: MWS
Jehovah's Witnesses reject the Nicene Creed, which is considered to be what defines Christian belief by Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants alike.

Prior to the Nicene Creed, what was the test for Christianity? Could such person have been saved if they merely responded to the Gospel message without going deep enough to develop a triune understanding?

66 posted on 01/31/2013 10:11:34 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

Jim Jones was everything you described.

It is positively scary how someone can lure people in like that.


67 posted on 01/31/2013 10:15:22 PM PST by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Causing trouble since 1976)
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To: fso301

Alright, let’s get some full disclosure going. You a witness?


68 posted on 01/31/2013 10:24:06 PM PST by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: Dallas59

I’m not sure I would classify them as a cult, but they’re close.

Go to a Bible bookstore and ask them if they have any good literature regarding the Jehovah’s Witness’ faith.

Otherwise, try the internet and see what you can find which tells the truth about their sect. They have some very strange rules to live by .. and they make it hard for you to leave them, if you decide you don’t want to be there anymore.

Just make sure the person understands what they’re getting into.


69 posted on 01/31/2013 10:26:26 PM PST by CyberAnt ("America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth".)
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To: MWS
I had a friend in college who joined the JWs. Before that he was a great guy, loved music, especially jazz. Introduced me to the sublime Miles Davis. Also introduced my to the finer ales like Bass.

Once he joined the JWs he was literally a different person. Pretty much shunned me and all of his friends. Dropped out as a sophomore.

In retrospect, I realize he was searching for something. But he ended up thinking everything he did before was "evil". Gave up his beloved music, beer, etc.

I went to couple of Kingdom Hall meetings with him. Nice people, but sorry, quite strange.

They have "Communion" where they pass around cermonial bread and wine. The only people "allowed" to take it are members of the 144,000 elect. So nobody in the Hall partook. He told me that if someone tries to take Communion they often times are physically stopped, because taking the bread and wine is a grave sin if you are NOT one of the elect.

He also told me that Jesus was not THE son of God, however A son of God, an archangel. Gabriel? Who was re-incarnated.

I had many discussions with him after that. He broke off all contact with me soon thereafter.

70 posted on 01/31/2013 10:38:55 PM PST by boop ("You don't look so bad, here's another")
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To: fso301

The Nicene Creed represents the Christian faith as handed down from the Apostles and as held by the Church Fathers. The teaching of Christ as God is reflected in the Didache as well as in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Melito of Sardis, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Clement of Alexandria, and others — it was hardly a creation of the Nicene Fathers nor an innovation. It was formulated in the Nicene Creed after coming under challenge from a priest named Arius, who gained quite a following and has the distinction of having been slapped by St. Nicholas himself during the Nicene Council.

Personally, I believe that Christ will forgive an individual for making an honest mistake if their faith in Him and His death and resurrection are sincere. To be faced with true teaching and to maintain a hardened heart towards it in contradiction to the facts is not an honest mistake or the sign of a sincere heart. All the same, and most importantly, God alone can judge the honesty of one’s heart — there are so many factors involved that it is never our place to say that one’s mistake is insincere and mercenary.

But we can always trust that God’s judgment in such matters is True and Just, and that in His Good Mercy he will never condemn the honestly mistaken nor will He, in His Infinite Justice, allow a liar into His Heavenly Kingdom.

That’s my take on it, anyway.


71 posted on 01/31/2013 10:45:16 PM PST by MWS
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To: Royal Wulff
Go to your browser.

Type in “Millerites”

You will see how they began. Rev. Miller and the “Great Disappointment” -—

They were disappointed since the world did NOT end!

And this happened several times, after several EMPHATIC predictions.

72 posted on 01/31/2013 10:58:41 PM PST by Kansas58
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To: MWS
My mistake it's not Gabriel, but the archangel Michael who was crucified according to JWs.

And they're big on not having ANY symbols in the Kingdom Hall. They believe that the crucifixion was on a stake, not a cross, so you won't see a cross anywhere.

One thing that Mormons have over JWs is if you say "no thanks" they leave. JWs are persistent. I don't agree with them on much, but I do think the Watchtower magazine artist is fantastic.

73 posted on 01/31/2013 10:59:03 PM PST by boop ("You don't look so bad, here's another")
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To: boop

I find that to be one of the saddest aspects of the cult mentality.

In the name of control, people are convinced to give up the very things in life that make perhaps the greatest arguments for God of all — great music, great art, great food, and great beer. The beautiful things which God gave us to open our eyes to the power of His grace in the world are renounced as evil, things to be cast aside. Our world is corrupted by sin and that sin is manifestly ugly but insofar as the world has beauty and goodness it has it as a reflection of that grace which God chooses to bestow upon it.

I’m sorry for your loss... a friend who introduced you to jazz and Bass (one has to love English ales... I’m quite fond of Samuel Smith myself) was a dear friend indeed.


74 posted on 01/31/2013 11:00:35 PM PST by MWS
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To: Salvation

Maybe this man doesn’t need more religion. Maybe instead of pointing him to another denomination, he should be pointed to Christ.

Promote Jesus Christ, not your particular denomination.


75 posted on 01/31/2013 11:19:12 PM PST by Theo (May Christ be exalted above all.)
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To: Dallas59

I feel sorry for the kids. They are sometimes outcasts because they don’t celebrate holidays or birthdays.

My friend the teacher says they are a pain in the @$$. Doing traditional things in the classroom, like writing about their Christmas traditions, doing a Halloween crossword puzzle, or even singing “Happy Birthday”, becomes a nightmare because of these kids. You either feel guilty for excluding them or hurting the feelings of the non-JW kids, which is 95% of the class. And don’t even get her started on the classroom parties, which are a rare occurrence these days because of “respect for diversity.” Kids can’t even bring cupcakes to celebrate their birthdays anymore—they’re banned. The stated reason is allergies to foods, but the real reason is respecting the ones that don’t celebrate, the 5%.


76 posted on 01/31/2013 11:22:29 PM PST by dupree
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To: Dallas59

I’m seeing a number of Roman Catholics posting comments in this discussion, vitriolic Roman Catholics who have proven over the years that they care more about their denomination than about Jesus.

I would encourage you to ignore their advice. Perhaps your friend is tired of Roman Catholicism, and is looking for relationship and meaning. Pointing him back to the RC church would prove fruitless. Instead, point him to Jesus, and be a real friend to him.

Jesus above all, even above denomination (including the Roman Catholic denomination, which considers all other denominations to be anathema).

The nearer your friend comes to Jesus, the more clear it will become to him that JW doctrine is false.


77 posted on 01/31/2013 11:23:42 PM PST by Theo (May Christ be exalted above all.)
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To: Dallas59

He should research former member discussions on the internet. There will probably be a theme of organizational abuse.

It’s a cult and although it feels good to be part of a close knit group, it has it’s downside in being kind of owned by the group which is not always that sane.

I have heard they have organizational requirements for recruitment to the cult. Not quite the same spirit as talking to people about Jesus for the purpose of saving souls for Him.


78 posted on 01/31/2013 11:25:15 PM PST by SaraJohnson
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To: Dallas59

He should worry about his soul!


79 posted on 01/31/2013 11:27:16 PM PST by lu shissler (an take his naiv)
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To: lapsus calami; Dallas59

Get yer damned friend to confession or sumbpin!

I ain’t Catholic but, consider Catholics part of the canopy of Christian Family.

Put your punk friend in front of a priest and let him confess his ills. Whatever it takes!!!!

His future is at stake and his current state is temporary at the miminmum but, FK’d to the MAX if the JW’s get’hold of him.

Please, please, please...Become Catholic for a month and get your jackass friend back into to the fold!!!

Be a Friend.

“Oh, and I left the minimum thing above as my lisp thingy.

MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!

BE A FRIEND....you do understand friend? That’s Fri-to the-End...or FRIEND...

Don’t let these happless losers FK your friend up to the point he becomes a roboton or a worse, wakes up to the fakery of their leech religion and worn out from trying to make himself worthy.

Remember, there is none worthy, no, not one...and your friend is going to have to do a lot of work that is completely unnecessary, unwarranted and a waste of time.

He needs to understand “he sucks” but, God is okay with him.

if you want I can call your friend and speak with him.

I won’t yell, won’t judge and will let him lead what his direction is. Let me know.

Happy to help


80 posted on 01/31/2013 11:34:25 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Dallas59

We lived next door to a JW family for 3 years. In my opinion, it is a cruel cult. Their sweet little children were not permitted to celebrate anything. And when their non-JW grandmother died the little girls told me (unprompted) that “she didn’t go to heaven, she’s just dead.” The parents would have some sort of meetings at their house every week-my husband called “the coven”.

We also lived in Utah for 2 years, so have some experience with LDS. Practicing LDS are pleasant, honest, moral people, but they follow a false prophet.


81 posted on 01/31/2013 11:46:23 PM PST by chronicles
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To: liege
Walter Martin’s “Kingdom of the Cults” ‘splains it pretty good.

Yes it does. I spoke to him several times on the phone, to his Bible Answer Man program.

82 posted on 02/01/2013 12:28:21 AM PST by Mark17 (California, where English is a foreign language)
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To: Kansas58
"whoops did not post the right links, but still, any research of Jehovah's Witness or 7th Day Adventists shows they are both obsessed with predicting the “end times”

End times predictions aren't just limited to them. You can find Dispensationalist threads on FR all the time using newspaper headlines to interpet the book of Revelation. Newspaper exegesis its called. Every time something happens in the middle east they get 100 breathless posts claiming the rapture must be just around the corner.

83 posted on 02/01/2013 1:01:45 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Dallas59
All religions are nothing but cults. This one is just stranger than most.
84 posted on 02/01/2013 2:43:29 AM PST by BigCinBigD (...Was that okay?)
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To: Dallas59

May I suggest that you ask your friend to come to your church (Baptist) with you? Or (better, IMBO) offer to go to his (Catholic) church with him? Joining the JW cult will do him no good at all.


85 posted on 02/01/2013 2:59:51 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Dallas59

My friend was a Jehovah Witness, before she converted to Catholisism. They are a cult. I would be very understanding, and offer her the chance to look at other faiths. She is searching for God in all the wrong places. like most cults, they offer great fellowship and community, then it gets ugly.


86 posted on 02/01/2013 4:14:49 AM PST by mgist
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To: Dallas59

“A good friend is considering joining the Jehovah’s Witnesses. What should he worry about?”

Joining the Jehovah’s Witnesses.


87 posted on 02/01/2013 4:18:43 AM PST by John W (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: fso301

A cult is anything that leads you off the path to salvation. God does know who is saved, but the bible is also clear on how that happens. JWs don’t believe that. It’s pretty cut and dry.


88 posted on 02/01/2013 4:23:26 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: JCBreckenridge
Alright, let’s get some full disclosure going. You a witness?

No. Far from it but I will stand up for them against name callers. If a person takes issue with JW doctrine, refute it with scripture and state their own denomination in order that others have the same opportunity to poke holes in their doctrine.

89 posted on 02/01/2013 4:36:47 AM PST by fso301
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To: Bulwyf
A cult is anything that leads you off the path to salvation. God does know who is saved, but the bible is also clear on how that happens. JWs don’t believe that. It’s pretty cut and dry.

How does a JW accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior differ from your own acceptance in such a way as to render JWs unsaved?

90 posted on 02/01/2013 4:57:46 AM PST by fso301
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To: Dallas59

Why do their churches have no windows?


91 posted on 02/01/2013 4:58:41 AM PST by BO Stinkss
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To: Dallas59

When he comes to our house he should worry about dog bites.The sign in the yard says no peddlers or witnesses.


92 posted on 02/01/2013 4:59:09 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Dallas59
I have a neighbor who is JW. When trying to get me to convert, he let slip that they don't own firearms or believe in weapons ownership.

Game over, for me.

93 posted on 02/01/2013 5:01:29 AM PST by Lazamataz (LAZ'S LAW: As an argument with liberals goes on, the probability of being called racist approaches 1)
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To: fso301

They don’t believe in the trininty, they believe Jesus was a god, not the God, it goes on, but rather than ask me these things, how about you simply read what they teach and believe and compare it to the bible?


94 posted on 02/01/2013 5:10:04 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Dallas59
When they come around and you're there, tell them you talk to Michael the Archangel. Apparently that scares them off (and you DO want to scare them off, believe me). They're a bunch of religiously minded, under educated people who take their faith seriously, but who are dogmatic about their church (which they insist you not call a church, but a "Kingdom Hall").

They are convinced that they, and only they, have the truth, and have a million rationalizations as to why it is the truth, and everyone else is wrong. As one poster above noted, they have a particular animus for the Catholic Church, and use the term "Christendom" as though it was a synonym for "Satan's Church".

They believe that Jesus was executed by being nailed to a stake, not a cross, thereby attempting to negate one of the most important symbols of the Christian religion. Just for fun, ask them about how Jesus died. They will immediately engage, and tell you how he was executed on a stake and not a cross. When they're done (it will take a while), ask them where the word "crucify" comes from, and when they hesitate and wobble, tell them it's ancient Latin for killing someone by hanging them from a cross. Then ask why anyone would bother to make up a word for something they don't do. Ask them if they've ever seen a Roman crucifixion nail. They haven't, trust me. They exist, and they look like landscape spikes, made by hand with a hammer.

You won't break through their defenses, and they'll talk about how Satan really has a hold on you after they leave, but you'll have some fun with them, and really challenge their beliefs.

For extra points, you might ask them why their early portrayals of Jesus show him without a beard, when the custom of the day would have been to have a beard, since high carbon steel for razors wasn't exactly common then. They think they have the truth, but don't even know basic historical facts.

People don't often make the jump over to that religion, but when they do, it changes their life, and frankly for the worse. Get your buddy out of there NOW. If they make appointments for him to see them, be there when they are there. Be polite, be respectful, but rebut their comments after they leave. Save your buddy from this. Trust me.

95 posted on 02/01/2013 5:20:14 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The Liberal ruling class hates me. The feeling is mutual.)
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To: Bulwyf
They don’t believe in the trininty,

What scripture states belief in the trinity as defined by mainstream Christian denominations is a requirement for salvation?

they believe Jesus was a god, not the God,

If they believe that Christ is the key to salvation, that “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”—Acts 4:12 and that they are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit per Matt 28:18-19, what scripture(s) can you cite that either disproves, or places additional requirements on their salvation?

it goes on, but rather than ask me these things, how about you simply read what they teach and believe and compare it to the bible?

Perhaps I have. Have you, or are you just going on lifelong assumptions handed down by people having their own lifelong assumptions that were handed down to them?

96 posted on 02/01/2013 5:29:45 AM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

They think Christ is Michael the archangel. I can’t help you if you’re going to keep on the blinders.


97 posted on 02/01/2013 5:41:25 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Salvation

All faith should be in God, through Jesus, and not men. The Catholic faith is a cult as is the JW and Mormons.

Be respectful of all cults, because there are honest and sincere believers of Jesus, in the catholic church as well as in the JW groups.

We are told that the cult status doesn’t actually matter- only the confession of the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins.


98 posted on 02/01/2013 5:48:47 AM PST by Truth2012
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To: Bulwyf
They think Christ is Michael the archangel.

I don't agree with them on that but they do try to base their belief in Michael being synonymous with Christ on scripture. My understanding is that their non-trinitarian views stem directly from difficulty reconciling The father, Son and Holy Spirit with monotheism.

I can’t help you if you’re going to keep on the blinders.

So be it but you have yet to cite a single scripture that supports your opinions.

99 posted on 02/01/2013 6:03:06 AM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

There are major doctrinal problems, I don’t even need to quote the scripture when you can simply google what they believe and then compare for yourself, I don’t need to substantiate Christ, they don’t even believe in the physical ressurection.

Christ has already proved himself and who he is, and it’s not up to me to prove it any further. Also, I’m too busy getting ready to get out the door heh.

God bless, have a great day, and remember to resist the tyranny.


100 posted on 02/01/2013 6:20:03 AM PST by Bulwyf
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