Posted on 02/22/2013 5:43:18 PM PST by NYer
Nope...There are churches which make up the Body...There is no head Church...The body is not the head...
There is no denomination or religion or building or hierarchy that is the church (Church)...Those born again Christians within those groups or organizations are the 'church'...
That's why it's invisible...You don't know who in any organization is a member of the real body of Christ...
Just because you are a pope, bishop, priest, minister, pastor, or deacon is no indication whether you are a member of the real church...It's invisible...Only God know who is in his church...
And that's one of reason there can be no 'head' church...You nor I don't even know if these church 'heads' are even Christians...
get over it....the Pope is the head of a very large organization....other than infallibility in VERY restricted situations he has no special powers whatsoever....the Pope is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church....that is about 2.5 BILLION people...you are right, Jesus is our savior, the Pope is the leader of our church
half????would that be almost half.....just a little over half?? when I stated that Catholicism started with Christ's birth, I meant it......from the time of His birth, He was on earth to accomplish a goal...He did so and the time between His Birth and the establishment of the Catholic Church was used to do just that....His goal, to establish His church on Earth began well before He was born. I have no idea as to when Ne, as God decided to do so, so I used the date of His birth....close enough for government work...
O.K., once is enough...you don't have to be wrong a thousand times...once will do. wrong is wrong.
wake up....the pope can say that the green bay packers are the best team in football (of course they are) but that would not be a declaration of the church...people can say whetever....but when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra....and declares that he is doing so, he cannot err EVER.
In your post scriptural truths are denied and salvation is ridiculed.
Makes sense that the foolishness of changing the church that Jesus started to conform to your obtuse viewpoint—fits in with your continuing to deny scriptural truths and ridicule salvation.
your entire post is inane...
you need to pay REAL CLOSE ATTENTION I bACK OFF FROM NOTHING The Catholic church has NEVER issued a formal proclamation that was in error....NEVER in 2013 years....NEVER!!!
Peeved...
Your comments are ‘sickly’ inspired...perhaps you need to resort to the Ex Cathedra defense for your comments
you must have missed the first two thousand years of church history...there is indeed a "true" church of Christ and it is the Catholic church... no arguement....true fact..
Sickly inspired? For quoting Sacred Scripture and the original language of a passage? Sounds more like a cheap shot than a reasoned argument capable of standing on its own merits. Peace be with you.
Balderdash...do you understand? What you say is BALDERDASH!
“.but when the Pope speaks ex Cathedra....and declares that he is doing so, he cannot err EVER”
If that’s what you believe, in your conscience, then that is nice. However, even if it is true, there is no harm done in having a healthy skepticism of the claim. If the claim is true, then I can agree with any such teaching of the Pope simply because it will pass critical muster. However, if claim is untrue, and I am not skeptical, then I have failed to keep my spiritual guard up, as instructed in the Bible, and that can certainly do me harm.
Yes, I will pray for that, and I think it will happen eventually, even if it’s only when Christ returns. I do think though, that even though God’s ultimate goal is for perfect unity, He knows that we wouldn’t likely achieve that in this world. Just like each individual Christian has to struggle with our sins before we are finally perfected by God, maybe the church on Earth must wrestle with itself and fail many times before God wins the battle for us.
“The Catholic church has NEVER issued a formal proclamation that was in error....NEVER in 2013 years....NEVER!!!”
Okie dokie. How about this:
“We condemn all heretics, whatever names they may go under. They have different faces indeed but their tails are tied together inasmuch as they are alike in their pride. Let those condemned be handed over to the secular authorities present, or to their bailiffs, for due punishment. Clerics are first to be degraded from their orders. The goods of the condemned are to be confiscated, if they are lay persons, and if clerics they are to be applied to the churches from which they received their stipends. Those who are only found suspect of heresy are to be struck with the sword of anathema, unless they prove their innocence by an appropriate purgation, having regard to the reasons for suspicion and the character of the person. Let such persons be avoided by all until they have made adequate satisfaction. If they persist in the excommunication for a year, they are to be condemned as heretics. Let secular authorities, whatever offices they may be discharging, be advised and urged and if necessary be compelled by ecclesiastical censure, if they wish to be reputed and held to be faithful, to take publicly an oath for the defense of the faith to the effect that they will seek, in so far as they can, to expel from the lands subject to their jurisdiction all heretics designated by the church in good faith. Thus whenever anyone is promoted to spiritual or temporal authority, he shall be obliged to confirm this article with an oath. If however a temporal lord, required and instructed by the church, neglects to cleanse his territory of this heretical filth, he shall be bound with the bond of excommunication by the metropolitan and other bishops of the province. If he refuses to give satisfaction within a year, this shall be reported to the supreme pontiff so that he may then declare his vassals absolved from their fealty to him and make the land available for occupation by Catholics so that these may, after they have expelled the heretics, possess it unopposed and preserve it in the purity of the faith”
Fourth Lateran Council (1215): Canon 3 - On Heresy
So, this is a formal proclamation, is it in error? Is is in line with the spirit of Christ to not only denounce and excommunicate heretics, but to pressure secular authorities, under ecclesiastical and temporal penalties, to inflict criminal and civil penalties on heretics? To seize their property, and drive them from their place of residence? Oh, and those who are only suspected, but not proven guilty, must prove their innocence in order to avoid penalties as well. Does that sound very Christian to you?
Galatians 3:28 for one.
Now that I have answered your question, please be so kind to answer mine: Since Jesus and the thief on the cross were not Catholic, and the Bible does not say anything about being a Catholic, why would it be necessary for any Christian to be a Catholic?
Unfortunately your argument contains the seeds of its own destruction because if that logic is taken to its conclusion it would mean that all of the New Testament is redundant. Christ coming down to Earth itself and suffering and dying would make it seem sadistic since we could all have been saved by living the likes of Noah and Moses. The God of Abraham was revealed in Christ and his teachings whereby He give us His Flesh and Blood in the Holy Eucharist as his Apostles understood Him to say, we will not have life everlasting.
“Unfortunately your argument contains the seeds of its own destruction because if that logic is taken to its conclusion it would mean that all of the New Testament is redundant. Christ coming down to Earth itself and suffering and dying would make it seem sadistic since we could all have been saved by living the likes of Noah and Moses.”
No, I don’t think so. You see, Christ could never be redundant, for if He hadn’t come down to Earth and completed God’s plan for salvation, then Moses and Noah would never have been able to obtain salvation either. So, there is no chance that, even if we could all find faith in Christ outside of even the NT, that Christ would be redundant.
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