Posted on 02/22/2013 5:43:18 PM PST by NYer
Did you skip over the part in my response where I said:
On the basic doctrine of our salvation, it is crystal clear that we are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Jesus Christ and NOT of our own works so that we cannot boast. Jesus did it ALL. He redeemed us by his precious blood shed upon the cross at Calvary so that the sin debt of the world would be paid IN FULL. It is only man-made religions that add onto that simple plan of salvation.
So, no, not all will be saved because not all will BELIEVE. I don't accept "universal salvation", do you? Jesus said the way to heaven was narrow and FEW would find it. Any religion, whose claim to fame is the enormous total of their membership, doesn't sound like the way Jesus spoke of. The reason to teach and evangelize the world, according to Jesus' command is so that the world would hear of the coming of the savior and all those who diligently seek for the truth will know. After one believes and is saved, their walk with Christ, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, is used by God to reach a lost and dying world with the good news of the Gospel. As I said, we learn to live to please God and honor him so that the world will be drawn to Christ. Rather than thinking our works and deeds are what "merit" or "earn" our salvation, we are told that it is by God's GRACE alone that we can be saved. It is faith in Christ, believing in him and what he has done for us, that saves. Pure grace - undeserved, unmerited, unearned.
As to the "authentic" teachings of Jesus, if they were not included in the Scriptures, then they are not binding on a Christian, they don't influence what it takes to be saved. No one denies that Jesus did many things or even said many things not recorded in Scripture, because Scripture SAYS that, but John said what he DID write down was so we would believe and have eternal life. Whatever anyone adds to Scripture, insisting Jesus really DID say or the Apostles really did say, have no objective proof. Especially we must question anything that would contradict what is in Scripture. If these guidelines are lacking in your church, then you should know you might be following man-made doctrine that has no assurance of coming from God. There's PLENTY of that going around.
nonsense....Christ uses the Catholic Church as His method of communication....there are no large clouds above your head with the voice of God coming directly to you. The church is about 2013 years old...grasp the fact that she knows what she is doing.....God did not leave a pile of knowledge on the ground somewhere hoping that you would come across it....He issues His knowledge, love, wisdom, through His chosen intermediary the Catholic Church...learn to love it....it is here to stay.
Your posts have denied scriptural truths and ridiculed salvation(<---what you have done and I pointed out to you) the proper way to interpret the bible is to follow the Catholic Church....as Christ demanded...listen to what the church teaches...follow it....believe it.That's what I have been telling you for a long time! That is absolute nonsense, you got it right.nonsense....
Here is the rest of my post you are responding to, you forgot to post the whole thing:
And accused the brethren of doing something that was not done.
And typed a comment that virtually told another poster that what he posted about himself was a lie.
And now denying the Holy Spirit His power, and instead putting the Catholic church's teachings above Gods. Illustrated by your post to which I am responding now:
no matter how well trained one is in learning the Greek language, the way to understand the scriptures (no matter what language you read it in) is for the Holy Spirit to reveal the meanings.the proper way to interpret the bible is to follow the Catholic Church....as Christ demanded...listen to what the church teaches...follow it....believe it.
No terycarl, I will continue to follow God instead of man.
God did not demand we follow the Catholic Church, He told us to follow Him and trust the Holy Spirit for guidance, not a church or a Catholic who denies the power of the Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit trumps Catholicism, sorry that is not understood universally through all denominations.
We are of course saved by God’s grace and mercy provided we follow His Teachings. His teachings are not confined to only the text found in scripture. It was left to the early Church Fathers to sort out what books, writings, and texts guided by the Holy Spirit to include in the book we called the Bible. But interpreting its text and how it was understood was left to His disciples to be taught to all nations as ONE Truth and for this He established His Church and gave to Peter and his successors the keys to the Kingdom of heaven. We each can’t have our own interpretations otherwise we become a Tower of Babel.
For example, on the Road to Emmaus, the disciples recognized our Lord only when He broke the bread. The apostles and their successors found this to be as one more experience and what was understood by all His followers at the time to be the institution of the Holy Eucharist.
Now you may disagree as well as would others. But those who disagreed before like Cardinal Newman and pre-eminet U.S. Lutheran theologian Fr. Neuhaus on deeper scholarship and understanding came to agree on this interpretation and being true to their conscience they all converted to Catholicism.
Just look around and see the utter disarray among the thousands of Christian sects purporting to interpret scripture from novice “prosperity gospel” fools like Joel Osteen and “socialist” Rev. Wright to established sects like the gay clergy marriage approving Church of England, Lutherans, Episcopalians, and the Scottish rites. Then of course, we have the Black Churches (AME), the Korean Churches, and the individuals from kool-aid Rev. Jim Jones to rapture nuts like Rev. David Koresh.
nope, doesn't work that way....the Catholic church is indeed the spokeaman for Christ. The Holy Spirit does not come out of the woodwork and speak for God....He uses an emissary ( the Catholic Church) to speak for Him...why try to deny the obvious the truth is a couple of thousands year old...and has been studied and proved by hundreds of scholars....just not you??
all real Christians follow the Pope.
I just can't keep up with the Catholic jargon.
You CANNOT quench the Holy Spirit, He does as he pleases, and as God the Father and God the Son, Jesus decide, NOT YOU!
terycarl, DO NOT [attempt to] QUENCH THE SPIRIT--1 Thessalonians 5Why what with all your histrionic unBiblical posts am I not surprised that you would take it upon yourself to speak for God on the ministry of the Holy Spirit?
No wonder you come off as so confuzed in your understanding of spiritual matters, you listen to your denominiation's teachings instead of God's.
Good grief!
Tell that to the Orthodox! Oh, wait, that's right, they are accepted as Christians anyway. It's okay if they refuse to obey the Pope of Rome. It's peachy they deny the Immaculate Conception. Do biggie that they reject the infallibility of the Pope of Rome. Just all you "other" people out there, you can't be a real Christian if you aren't Roman Catholics! Is that how the game is played? Contradict much?
SOP
: > )
That’s a wordy post. True Christians should read the bible. Most Catholics don’t read the bible and vote Democrat. What’s up with that?
Bears repeating, here's part of it:
One church father revered in one century becomes a heretic in the next. One Pope proclaiming dogma gets contradicted by the next one and that one gets overruled later.Amen to that.I know how dearly Catholics want to hold onto that equilibrium and believe it is all true whatever they are told, but declaring herself the One, True Church did not prevent Rome from falling into debauchery and excess.
Even the current homosexual/pedophile scandal is nothing new. It's been going on for well over a thousand years if not longer.
Where we know who are the true body of Christ, his bride, is by their hearts and no one can see another's heart. That's something only God...He knows his own and he couldn't care less what sign is posted outside a believer's house of worship. The true bride will show herself by her fruits, the fruits of the Holy Spirit. The "authentic" teachings of Jesus ARE found in Holy Scripture. That's why He gave it to us! It alone is the only objective and authoritative source we have for knowing what is or isn't truth. On the basic doctrine of our salvation, it is crystal clear that we are saved by grace THROUGH faith in Jesus Christ and NOT of our own works so that we cannot boast. Jesus did it ALL. He redeemed us by his precious blood shed upon the cross at Calvary so that the sin debt of the world would be paid IN FULL. It is only man-made religions that add onto that simple plan of salvation.
Is it important to know about the nature of our God and how he has worked and will work in our world and lives? Sure, but it doesn't affect our salvation. That thief next to Jesus on the cross didn't need to know about the Trinity to be saved. He didn't have to get down from his cruel cross to get baptized "properly" to be saved.
He didn't even have to receive the Eucharist to be saved. But Jesus said, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise."
We have the writings of the Apostles and their direct disciples that explain the doctrines Christians need to know to be good Christians and live lives that honor and glorify God. He certainly wants us to. He gave us the Holy Spirit to be our guarantee of eternal life and to lead us into all truth. He gave to the believers within each local church pastors and teachers and evangelists to equip and edify the saints to help us be all that God desires for us. He didn't leave us without the Comforter - HIS presence with us for all time. We CAN know we have everlasting life right now, because we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his grace is sufficient for us. What a wonderful plan God has for each one of us! It starts with being born again into HIS family by grace through faith in Christ. That is the simple - deceptively simple for some - plan of salvation.
And to what I didn't repeat here.
How does one “Follow the Pope”?
Where is that stated in scripture?
The "authentic" teachings of Jesus ARE found in Holy Scripture. That's why He gave it to us!2 Timothy 3:16Where is that stated in scripture?
Many translations:
All Scripture is God-breathedWhy He gave it to us?All Scripture is inspired by God
All Scripture is breathed out by God
All scripture is given by inspiration of God
Same scripture reference:
...and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.Where do you find the authentic teachings of Jesus?
NYer asked: Where is that stated in scripture? = Where in Scripture does Jesus instruct Matthew, Mark, and John to record his words and then compile them into a Bible?
We have a triune God, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
It is the Holy Spirit that inspired the writers of the New Testament in what words to record.
So your question is kind of a non sequitur.
This subject is finished, if it isn't clear to you now it never will be.
I'm not going argue against all the dogma that has been hashed out already ad infinitum .
Scripture based Christians believe and get their information and inspiration from a source denied as Truth by the Catholic church. No problem...for me.
No argument there whatsoever. You cited 2 Timothy 3:16–17 where Paul is laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. In 2 Tim. 3:14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you haveheard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2).
As one who believes scripture to be inspired, then you also accept Paul's admonition to follow oral tradition.
Study the doctrines of the Hypostatic Union, Kenosis, Indwelling of God the Holy Spirit, the Shekinah Glory, then even consider the murals of saints in old medieval church walls of halos.
God communicates directly to the believer who is in fellowship with Him by His volition.
Mostly exhortations to continue with the scriptures already written.
Of course in those days when God was inspiring the writers of the NT, it wasn't written down yet. Although of course lots of letters from Paul were.
So naturally they were taught back then to follow the words of those that God was inspiring to speak what would eventually become the NT, which we have now.
It does not substantiate the traditions of the Catholic church as being as important as scripture.
Paul was NOT telling us to follow the traditions of the Catholic church in this day and age.
I have no problem if you want to, it's your choice.
Oh and Timothy was a disciple [Acts 16:1], not a Bishop.
But according to later tradition, Paul consecrated Timothy as bishop of Ephesus in the year 65
About 15 years later apparently he died a martyrs death, being stoned to death by pagans.
Interesting that he was trying to stop a a pagan procession of idols, ceremonies, and songs
Kind of like today trying to stop a homosexual parade marching through our cites so much these days.
I'll bet they would like to kill us if we tried to stop those.
so let's see Christ was here on Earth, established His group of Apostles and disciples died on the cross for us....and ignored the organization that He had established.....He said throughout the centuries the Holy Spirit will come to everyone directly and guide them...
there would be no reason at all to have an established church to bring the message to humanity....just listen to the wind....the Holy Spirit will talk to you...........ummmmmmmI don't think so, I would rather have an organization that would record, interpret, preserve scripture and provide it to me a few thousand years from it's beginning...Just saying!!
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