Skip to comments.Under the New Pope’s Teaching, Should Pelosi and Biden Be Ex-Communicated?
Posted on 03/21/2013 2:30:00 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Before he became Pope Francis, the Argentine cardinals doctrine would have excluded Vice President Joe Biden and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi from Communion. Father Shenan J. Boquet president of Human Life International explains:
While we cannot know what is truly in someones heart, all too often political or other high-profile figures who profess to be members of the Catholic faith give rise to scandal when they publicly promote intrinsic evils such as abortion, euthanasia, the redefinition of marriage, and contraceptionseveral of which have been championed by Vice President Biden and Rep. Pelosi throughout their political careers.
As Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, taught in the 2007 Aparecida Document, the responsibility of legislators, heads of governments to not receive Holy Communion while engaged in deeds or words against the commandments, particularly when abortion, euthanasia, and other grave crimes against life and family are encouraged is a very serious one......
(Excerpt) Read more at theothermccain.com ...
Have you seen the pictures of Joe Biden making his entrance?
I guess they were lying to me.
It is not possible for the Vatican of the bishops to publicly excomminicate all the silly apostate Catholics who endorse anti-life policies that are completely contrary to the Catholic doctrines and indeed, biblical thruths since the time of the New Testament.
However, it would be possible for the entire Bishops conferance to anounce that any such dissenting Catholics should not approach the altar to receive holy Communion.
It is the belief of the RC church that to receive the Holy Eucharist knowingly with a sinful heart [i.e. with grave sinupon your sould] is to call down upon your soul the risk of eternal damnation. A publication of the sins involved which are pro-abortion, adultery, pro-euthanasia, acceptance of homosexual behavior or Gay marraige, etc. needs to be done often and repeatedly until all Catholics understand the gravity of their actions upon the destiny of their immortal souls. Such persons excommunicate themselves and it behooves the leaders, the bishops, to proclaim it publicly.
It mighr be a good idea as well to give examples of some famous folks like Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo, as examples of persons whose actions have excommunicated themselves.
God and his Son, Jesus Christ will not be mocked!
The Vatican is using the easy out that people who commit sins worthy of excommunication, “self-excommunicate”. But this is unsatisfactory on all accounts.
Since they have long been apprehensive about chastising political leaders, though they would probably be unwilling, a good way to start excommunication is when the political leader has died.
When asked to justify not burying them in a consecrated Catholic cemetery, they could state that they long ago excommunicated themselves, and never sought redemption. Now the purpose of doing this is obviously not the deceased politician, but the ones still living in sin.
The church should ignore any inquiries as to whether when they die they will be buried with Catholic auspices. Let them sweat about it, and let it be their legacy, that they had fallen from grace and went to their grave unrepentant and without absolution, the blood of innocents on their hands.
I wish someone in a position to do so, would declare that these two, and any who favor abortion, would be considered excommunicated. That is what God would have done if he were here. Read the bible. Jesus was no wimp. He called it like it was. So should we!
My Dad was excommunicated.
He received a letter (do not remember who my Mom said it was from), that because he was marring my Mom and she was not only not Catholic but said she would not allow her children to be raised as Catholics, he was told “good bye” and his future children were all going to hell.
That was in 1945, so who knows what was going on at that time.
They sure as hell would be chastized at my southern baptist congregation
Under any Popes reign, Pelosi and Biden should be excommunicated.
Well that would be a declaration with implicit conditions for being readmitted.
Did the letter really say all y’all were going to hell? Wow!
If it's all up to the individual, then Canon 915 has to be removed from Canon Law as totally absurd.
Canon 915 applies to and places expectations on the presiding clergy to enforce the rules of Canon Law and to do so, make sure those who are excommunicated or under interdict " . . . are not to be admitted to holy communion". The fact is, the Clergy have a responsibility to the Sacrament itself no matter what is contingent on the individual who may be excommunicated or under interdict.
All the talk about the individual presenting them self being the responsible party and everyone else is held harmless is a case of comparing apples to oranges. Canon 915 makes it clear that, no, the clergy are not to just assume that anyone who shows up should receive communion. They are responsible if they serve communion to someone who is excommunicated just as much as the individual who knows better unless it is absolutely impossible for the presiding priest to know whether or not they're excommunicated. Now, it is not in any way impossible for anyone in this forum to know that the likes of Biden and Peolsi and a host of others have never recanted their pro-abortion and other culture of death stands that defy Church Teaching, so it's absolutely absurd to say that the presiding priest can't be sure where they stand and should err on the side of allowing them to partake of communion.
All the focus on the individual is an attempt to sidestep the issue. The issue isn't whether scum like Biden and Pelosi are in deep do do for presenting themselves. They've excommunicated themselves, they know it, they did it by openly defying Church teaching and brag about having done so. What do they care about theoretically being in even worse shape after they present themselves since they don't accept Church Dogma and Doctrine anyway? They know that from the point of view of anyone who is Catholic theyre in deep do do in more ways than one. They have no intention of changing their ways, are not sincere Catholics who care what the Church teaches or believe that God is going to ever do a thing to them. They're not Catholic, get that through you're heads, they once were, they are not now.
The whole issue of their receiving communion arises from their publicly and non many occasions denying Church teaching. The objective reality of the situation is that they only show up for communion as a way to give the finger to the Church to add insult to injury. Those are the facts. It's silly or avoiding reality to pretend there is any reason whatsoever for anyone to believe theyre secretly repented and are worthy to receive communion. The presiding priest who is responsible for making sure people in exactly the situtation these two are in, " . . . are not to be admitted to holy communion", shouldn't admit them. There's no reason to believe they've repented any more than there would be to believe some guy with a Pentagram tattoo on his forehead and "Satan is Lord" tattooed on his arm has repented and is a Catholic worthy to receive communion. Without it becoming public knowledge that they've repented they have to be refused because it's public knowledge that they have excommunicated themselves by openly supporting abortion among other things.
The presiding priest is obligated to err on the side of caution and refuse them communion or Canon 915 is null and void noise and a waste of ink to print. Likewise, the references to the penalties the priest can expect if he doesnt look over those presenting themselves and when he thinks some of those presenting themselves may be among those who, " . . . are not to be admitted to holy communion". Unless and until public figures like Pelosi and Biden very, very, publicly make it clear they no longer support abortion on demand, the ordination of women, queers marrying one another, and contraception, (for starters) just like they very publicly said they support those things no priest should permit them to receive. Canon 915 is clear and is written specifically to let the presiding preist know that people like Biden and Pelosi, " . . . are not to be admitted to holy communion". That's the rule and there's nothing contradicting that rule or making an exception saying they should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Either people who the clergy have reason to suspect are ineligible should be turned away, or it's absolutely dishonest and a shame on the Church to keep Canon 915 on the books when no priest is expected to abide by it. What, its a convenient rule they can use when they like and use against a priest that they can't find anything else on? Is it offically part of the smoke and mirrors Canon only included to impress the gullible? Thats what folks who argue its all up to the individual are boiling Canon 915 down to, a convenience for a Bishop who wants to find some reason to discipline a priest or a PR entry.
Anyone who publicly denies Church teaching is supposed to just as publicly state that they have repented and now accept Church Teaching before excommunication or interdict is lifted. Playing the, "how would the priest know" game doesn't float and IMHO is disingenuous.
I would love to know how the big-wigs are thinking.
My fantasy, if I were pope would be to contact the BP’s of Wilmington. Delaware, Maryland, Arlington, DC, and San Francisco (and whoever Sebelius’s bishop is.) I'd make sure they were all on board and ready to discipline any clergy that resisted. And then I'd wait for the HHS mandate to work its way out.
Then, however the HHS thing broke, I'd send a formal letter to each of the bishops, probably through a nuncio — hand-delivered. And on an agreed upon date, hammer down, reserving lifting of the excommunication to their bishops if the HHS breaks our way and to the Holy See if it breaks the wrong way.
To ME, there is a scandal at this point. And we're out there organizing religious freedom demonstrations and such. We need some backup from the hierarchy.
Both my Mom and Dad said the letter said future children would go to hell, I have some papers from my Dad in a box I should look as see if that letter is there.
Needless to say he never went back and my Mom, said she would never consider Catholicism.
“readmission”, hum, my Dad took it as excommunication.
“It is not possible for the Vatican or the bishops to publicly excomminicate all the silly apostate Catholics who endorse anti-life policies that are completely contrary to the Catholic doctrines....”
Because that would include all Catholics who voted for Obama and those, recently surveyed, who do not oppose same-sex “marriage”.
In the latter category, 54% did not oppose SSM.
Oh, it IS excommunication. But not all excommunication is a “life-sentence,” and in fact even the excommunicate can receive communion if they’re dying.
Usually excommunications and interdicts have conditions for being readmitted to the Sacraments.
“....and his future children were all going to hell.”
I am sure that is NOT what the letter stated.
All I can say, is what my parents said and it was something they mentioned on occasion their whole lives.
As I said it was 1945.
Yes. Excommunicate them both, with extreme prejudice.
what does the word “declared “ mean in the relevant canons?