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Pope at Mass: Culture of encounter is the foundation of peace
Radio Vaticana ^ | 5/22/2013

Posted on 05/22/2013 4:02:56 AM PDT by markomalley

“Doing good” is a principle that unites all humanity, beyond the diversity of ideologies and religions, and creates the “culture of encounter” that is the foundation of peace: this is what Pope said at Mass this morning at the Domus Santae Martae, in the presence of employees of the Governorate of Vatican City. Cardinal Bechara Boutros Rai, Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, concelebrated at the Mass.

Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can. He must. Not can: must! Because he has this commandment within him. Instead, this ‘closing off’ that imagines that those outside, everyone, cannot do good is a wall that leads to war and also to what some people throughout history have conceived of: killing in the name of God. That we can kill in the name of God. And that, simply, is blasphemy. To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy.”

“Instead,” the Pope continued, “the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil”:

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

“Doing good” the Pope explained, is not a matter of faith: “It is a duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because He has made us in His image and likeness. And He does good, always.”

This was the final prayer of Pope Francis:

"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS:
Before screaming, please note that he said nothing on whether the atheist has accepted his redemption.

See John 12:32, Heb 2:9, 2 Cor 5:15, Rom 5:18, etc.

1 posted on 05/22/2013 4:02:56 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley
Alternatively, among many possible examples:


             

2 posted on 05/22/2013 4:39:53 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: tomkat

Thankfully, Christian Crusaders didn’t try this approach with Saladin. Muslim see kindness as weakness.


3 posted on 05/22/2013 4:48:03 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: txrefugee

Precisely .. and this new guy would ‘wishful think’ the West to death.


4 posted on 05/22/2013 4:54:39 AM PDT by tomkat
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To: markomalley

This is nothing new. The “virtuous pagans” were always accepted as people who, for one reason or another, could not know or accept God’s revelation of Himself in Jesus. But they adhered to natural law, without perhaps even knowing it, and it is certainly undeniable that doing good and not doing evil is the fundamental principle.

The only religion, unfortunately, that seals its believers off from this is Islam, because it rejects natural law and considers sharia to be the only law of the universe. And under sharia, one is permitted and even ordered to do tremendous evil in order to advance Islam and the cause of the Islamic version of God. And in fact one is permitted to engage in all sorts of behavior that other cultures reject.

That said, there probably are some individual Muslims who are fine and sincerely would like to find the truth and do the right things. To me, this only means that the Church has got to be more forthright in offering the truth so that these people might be able to get out of their oppressive and life-denying cult.


5 posted on 05/22/2013 5:09:38 AM PDT by livius
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To: tomkat

“The West” chose cultural and demographic suicide before the Moslems became a threat in recent times.


6 posted on 05/22/2013 5:14:36 AM PDT by Tax-chick (The Commie Plot Theory of Everything. Give it a try - you'll be surprised how often it makes sense.)
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To: txrefugee

Yet St. Francis had no problem meeting with a leader from the Muslim back in the day.


7 posted on 05/22/2013 5:28:22 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: livius

Because Islam is from the devil.


8 posted on 05/22/2013 5:30:41 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: txrefugee

” Thankfully, Christian Crusaders didn’t try this approach with Saladin. Muslim see kindness as weakness.”

Sadly, we are not in the same world as existed in the time of Pope Urban II.


9 posted on 05/22/2013 5:54:51 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: livius

Well said, livius.


10 posted on 05/22/2013 10:25:02 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("You can obseve a lot just by watchin'." - Yogi Berra)
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To: markomalley

re: “‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Meaning no disrespect, I’m not exactly sure what the sentence above means. What is the “there”? As in, “we will meet one another there.” Not hostile, just curious.


11 posted on 05/22/2013 12:33:56 PM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: rusty schucklefurd

” Meaning no disrespect, I’m not exactly sure what the sentence above means. What is the “there”? As in, “we will meet one another there.” Not hostile, just curious.”

I thought of Mars Hill. Or dealing with the Centurion.


12 posted on 05/22/2013 1:11:09 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Yes, redemption does not equal salvation. However, once again, I see the lack of clarity in our leader’s words. This homily will lead others to believe, ONCE AGAIN, that all religions (or lack thereof) are the same.

You don’t have to be Catholic.

I am so sick of this.


13 posted on 05/22/2013 1:15:31 PM PDT by piusv
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To: rusty schucklefurd

“we will meet one another there”.

Yet some more confusion. Perhaps “there” means Heaven? No, he probably doesn’t mean that, but what keeping anyone from thinking that is what he meant?

Arggggh.


14 posted on 05/22/2013 1:17:26 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Blame Pio Nono and that darned “invincible ignorance” bit he mentioned.


15 posted on 05/22/2013 1:28:04 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley
Blame Pio Nono and that darned “invincible ignorance” bit he mentioned.

While I agree that that bit has created confusion, I also think many in the Vatican II era are ...um, ignorant? lol....of the meaning of invincible ignorance. I don't think it was confusing prior to Vatican II (if that makes sense?)

16 posted on 05/22/2013 1:32:54 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

” While I agree that that bit has created confusion, I also think many in the Vatican II era are ...um, ignorant? lol....of the meaning of invincible ignorance. I don’t think it was confusing prior to Vatican II (if that makes sense?)”

Well, the “spirit of Vatican II” crowd could screw up the Blessed Trinity.


17 posted on 05/22/2013 1:39:44 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley
“Doing good” is a principle that unites all humanity

Also, wouldn't this have been a really good time to instruct all people that although doing good unites all humanity, "doing good" is not good enough for one's salvation? Or maybe there is more to the homily that I'm missing?

Wow. I'm rip-roaring mad. Perhaps I need to step away from the 'puter for a bit.

18 posted on 05/22/2013 1:56:26 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
Yes, redemption does not equal salvation.

Yes, it most certainly does...Those who go up to meet the Lord in the air are redeemed...No one gets redeemed except for Christians...

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

No atheists nor muzlims there...Only Christians...

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Not only are the redeemed the Body of Christ, the rememption has not taken place yet...There clearly are no redeemed atheists or muzlims...

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Pretty much God has confounded your pope...

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Your pope is NOT redeemed at this time and neither are those he plans on meeting somewhere...And I have no doubt he will meet them...

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It is said (by your religion) that your popes are the greatest Theologians the World has ever seen...I believe it's pretty clear that you guys have been duped...

However, once again, I see the lack of clarity in our leader’s words. This homily will lead others to believe, ONCE AGAIN, that all religions (or lack thereof) are the same.

I disagree...I see it as super clear...It's as clear as when he tells you to not read the scriptures except while leaning on the Catholic religion to gain the 'correct' understanding of what you are reading...

I am not posting this to attack your pope...I am posting this in hopes that you guys will wake up and trust what God says in his scriptures...

19 posted on 05/22/2013 7:38:40 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: markomalley; All

” And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all!”


Only the elect are the adopted children of God:

Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

An unbeliever, until he is reconciled with God, is a slave and servant of the devil:

1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

To say everyone is a child of God is just a catch-phrase.


20 posted on 05/22/2013 8:06:55 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Iscool

You’re wrong Iscool. Paul states that Jesus died for all and that God wishes all to be saved.

I don’t have the time to pull up exact Scripture quotes, but if you are as confident in your knowledge of the Bible as you say you are, then you know which passages I am referring to.

Having said all of that, your post only adds to my unhappiness with this particular papal homily. So I thank you for helping to validate my feelings.


21 posted on 05/23/2013 2:47:55 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
You’re wrong Iscool. Paul states that Jesus died for all and that God wishes all to be saved.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Again, no atheists...No muzlims...

22 posted on 05/23/2013 5:24:06 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

What I get from all of this, the homily, the subsequent discussions, and the Scripture itself, is that Pope Francis was speaking to the cleansing act of the Crucifixion. That it took the place of EVERY sin for EVERY man, woman, and child. It redeems all mankind in its role as sacrifice.

What is missing, as far as I can tell, is the explanation that people can still turn their backs on the gift. People can still reject Christ, reject the gift of redemption, reject Grace, and reject the crucifixion. This rejection does not supersede the redemption of the crucifixion, but it certainly prevents the ultimate salvation God desires for us all.

As far as I can tell, it’s an issue of the bigger picture. And while I may not be a Biblical scholar with a PhD, I am confident in my understanding of the Scripture, my humble knowledge of Church teachings, and the way it all comes together with this homily and our role in Christ’s Church.


23 posted on 05/23/2013 5:48:45 AM PDT by HushTX (I make libs rage quit.)
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To: HushTX
Your pope is looking at this thing from a pair of pagan or secular eyes...Notice what he says:

Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:

Is this what Jesus said??? No, it isn't...Here's what Jesus really said:

Luk 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Do you see how your pope twisted the scriptures and perverted the entire message???

Jesus did NOT say to unite with people who do good works...Jesus said to unite with people who do what they do IN JESUS' NAME...ONLY those who believe on Jesus...Your pope forgot to mention this...Definately no atheists or muzlims regardless of how many good works they do...

The message is to work for World peace outside of Jesus Christ...Your pope want unity with your religion and all the religions of the word and falsly claims that mankind is already redeemed in the eyes of God...A more untru statement has never been made...There will be no World peace and folks need to wise up to that idea...

And then it really gets sickening...

“Instead,” the Pope continued, “the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil”:

"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”

No one...Absolutely no one can provide grace from heaven other than Jesus Christ our Lord...No saint can provide grace...AND, he doesn't hand it out thru other people...

24 posted on 05/23/2013 9:06:04 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
"And then it really gets sickening..."

What is really, I mean REALLY sickening is, is when some who call themselves Christian spend every waking hour anonymously attacking other Christians instead of getting out into the world and confronting Muslims, abortionists, atheist politicians, and Mexican cartels, communists, bone-thug gang members and demon spirits, to bring about their conversion. I'm sure you will agree that the Apostles did exactly that (though the names have changed) and we are called to do the same.

Peace be with you

25 posted on 05/23/2013 9:45:31 AM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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To: Natural Law
What is really, I mean REALLY sickening is, is when some who call themselves Christian spend every waking hour anonymously attacking other Christians instead of getting out into the world and confronting Muslims

I am not attacking anyone but I am confronting those who walk hand in hand with atheists and muzlims who think they are all in the same boat with your popes and Jesus...If you agree with your pope, that apparently that includes you as well...

26 posted on 05/23/2013 10:10:38 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
"I am not attacking anyone..."

It is telling that you do attack those who do worship the Triune Christian God, but not the way you have chosen, yet don't push yourself away from the keyboard to confront true evil. I will concede that other Christians are much safer targets.

27 posted on 05/23/2013 10:37:53 AM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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To: Iscool
John 3:16 speaks of individuals accepting Jesus. By doing so they are saved (salvation). Redemption, on the other hand, gives all men the *opportunity* to make such a choice. His redemptive death does that.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)

And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. (2 Corinthians 5:15)

So, I agree with you...no atheists or Muslims..because they have not accepted Christ. The Pope is not saying that they are saved. He is saying what Paul says above...that he died for all.

However, I absolutely agree that, although not his intention, what he says sends the wrong message...and I do find that troubling. It doesn't make me waver in the Catholic Faith however.

28 posted on 05/23/2013 1:28:43 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Iscool
Here is what the Orthodox Church says about the Pope's comments and the difference between redemption and salvation. I found it on another site and thought you might find it interesting:

http://orthodoxyandheterodoxy.org/2013/05/23/did-pope-francis-say-everyone-will-be-saved-by-doing-good/

29 posted on 05/23/2013 1:49:21 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Natural Law

“What is really, I mean REALLY sickening is, is when some who call themselves Christian spend every waking hour anonymously attacking other Christians”


You shouldn’t assume he spends every hour fixing up Catholics. We are called to confront error whenever we see it, “in season and out of season.” This stuff by “Papa” Francis is certainly pandering to the world. The works of the atheists and muslims will never save them, nor can we ever be united with them on such a ground.

2Co_6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


30 posted on 05/23/2013 3:20:08 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Iscool
"You shouldn’t assume..."

I assume nothing. You shouldn't either. The two of you aren't the first to bend your picks attacking the Church and, unfortunately, won't be the last. Fortunately, none have or will harm the Church. Quod est demonstratum.

Peace be with you

31 posted on 05/23/2013 3:55:21 PM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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To: Natural Law

“The two of you aren’t the first to bend your picks attacking the Church and, unfortunately, won’t be the last.”


As long as Popes bend their picks against the sacred words of the Holy Bible, a Christian will be there to fight against it. Unfortunately, there’s never a last time.


32 posted on 05/23/2013 4:16:26 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"As long as...."

I would recommend that you read Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra's novel "Don Quixote" to see how your little effort plays out.

Peace be with you

33 posted on 05/23/2013 5:24:32 PM PDT by Natural Law (Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.)
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To: Iscool

First, let me correct yet another incorrect assumption. He is not “my Pope.” I am not Roman Catholic.

Just because someone engages in conversation about matters Catholic does not make one Roman Catholic. You would do well to remember that.

In addition, you willfully ignore my point. You might consider reading what I posted again, since you took away from it that I am something I am not, and that I said something I did not.


34 posted on 05/24/2013 5:40:14 AM PDT by HushTX (I make libs rage quit.)
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To: Natural Law

Yes, but it is SO VERY IMPORTANT to prove that THEIR brand of Christianity is the right one, because all the others just suck.

And we wonder why outsiders dislike Christians. Seriously.

Well said, Natural Law.


35 posted on 05/24/2013 5:42:05 AM PDT by HushTX (I make libs rage quit.)
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To: piusv
John 3:16 speaks of individuals accepting Jesus. By doing so they are saved (salvation). Redemption, on the other hand, gives all men the *opportunity* to make such a choice. His redemptive death does that.

Redemption is future...No one is redeemed, yet...

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

And it is our bodies that will be redeemed, when we are given an immortal body...

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

As you can see, redemption is only for those who have trusted in and believed Jesus for their salvation...No athesists or muzlims...

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

But your pope says,

The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ

No, no the Lord has NOT redeemed all of us...And he will not redeem all of us...Your pope is putting all people into the same hat and of course this creates a huge anti-biblical problem...

Jesus is the Redeemer but that redemption is only given to those who trust in Jesus...And, that redemption is what takes place when we Christians are 'changed'...When we take on the body type of Jesus...The immortal body...Redemption is NOT given to the people of the World...

36 posted on 05/24/2013 7:54:03 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: piusv
Here is what the Orthodox Church says about the Pope's comments and the difference between redemption and salvation. I found it on another site and thought you might find it interesting:

Well, first, this is not universalism. It might appear to be so if you don’t know that there is a difference in traditional Christian theology between being saved and being redeemed. The redemption that Christ accomplished through the incarnation, cross and resurrection was for all of human nature, and so it is quite correct to say “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ.” Redemption is something that happens for human nature, which is why all will be resurrected in the end and why all are capable of doing good.

While Jesus Christ is the Redemption for all of mankind, ONLY those who trust in Christ will be redeemed...So it is NOT correct to say that Christ redeemed all of us...

What the writer fails to tell you is that while 'all' will be resurrected in the end, many (most) will be resurrected to the Judgment and then cast into outer darkness...And THOSE who are have not nor will they be redeemed...

This orthodox writer is just plain wrong if he is trying to tell someone what the scriptures say about the topic...

Someone may be redeemed and not be saved. Someone may be redeemed and not do good. Someone may also be redeemed, do good and yet not be saved.

This is completely unbiblical...None of it is true...Your duo religion has twisted the meaning of redemption with justification...

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Justification = we
Redemption = is in Christ Jesus...

Jesus is the Redemption that allows us to be justified...To call us redeemed distorts the bible out of any sense of truth...

37 posted on 05/24/2013 8:26:26 AM PDT by Iscool
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