Posted on 05/31/2013 2:44:05 PM PDT by NYer
There is no Church in the bible...There is however a church, and many churches...
The Berean church in the scriptures gave us the example...The churches are supposedly led by faithful Christians who study and search the scriptures by comparing scripture with scripture to 'prove all things' and that is where their authority to settle the matter lies...
The first thing Gabriel said to Mary was that she was “full of grace”. All generations shall call her blessed.
So when the Catholic church says that the honor Mary, does that mean that they worship Mary?
And what do you make of that? That she is worthy of worship? NO. She was filled with Grace by the Holy Spirit because of her task. She was given the strength and guidance to help her. Before that she was a normal woman. A virgin and humble but sinful in nature just like we all are born to be.
“There is no Church in the bible...There is however a church, and many churches”
Ekklesia. Singular. There is one Church and many congregations.
“and that is where their authority to settle the matter lies”
Actually the authority of the Church stems from Christ himself. The bible is a product of the Church not the Church of the bible.
“A virgin and humble but sinful in nature just like we all are born to be.”
Where does scripture say this?
Rather than go by what they say, go by what they do. Worship belongs to God alone. We are to pray to God. Why pray to Mary? Is God deaf? Does He need some persuasion? What was the example Jesus gave us in prayer? He prayed to God.
It is all throughout the Bible of the sinful nature of man. We are born into sin. You know this but use earplugs and blinders when it comes to Mary. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.
By what mechanism was Mary born sinless if her own mother was subject to sin?
Says you. Why argue over this? You will never change your mind and I will never change mine. Have a good day. I have to re-read the transcript of Gordon Gee (OSU president).
Except Mary. God preserved her from original sin. The angel Gabriel said so. It’s in the Bible.
‘Rather than go by what they say’
Your brother in faith claimed that the Catholic church was merely ‘substituting a word for worship’.
Are you conceding this is in fact not the case?
“Why pray to Mary?”
We don’t pray to Mary. The Rosary asks Mary to pray for us.
“Is God deaf? Does He need some persuasion? What was the example Jesus gave us in prayer? He prayed to God.”
James says that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and that we are to pray for one another.
“It is all throughout the Bible of the sinful nature of man. We are born into sin.”
So there is no direct reference to Mary having sinned.
Why, then, do you believe this is so?
Nobody questions that David is a sinner - because his sins are documented. Why is Mary’s sin not documented?
Chapter and verse?
By the Immaculate Conception. With God, all things are possible.
Luke 1:28. That’s what Gabriel means when he says “full of grace”.
She referred to Jesus as her Savior. That is direct evidence. No need of salvation if one hasn't sinned.
So, Mary could be conceived sinless of a sinner mother, but Jesus could not?
Now you're going all Dan Brown on me with this. I'm supposed to prove a negative. No thanks. Lots of people in the Bible do not have their sins documented. Proves nothing. The burden of proof is on YOU.
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