I don’t believe in once saved, always saved. My understanding of grace is that there is no sin that you cannot repent from and be forgiven for, but you still must turn from sin.
ooooo sounds likePurgatory. I recommend a book called Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn. Google it.
Nice idea. But I'm not sure scripture discusses this sort of meritocracy.
So, I was “saved” and babtised when I was a kid. Since then I have embraced reason and now a happy athiest. Wow I’m still good to go!
Laurie is wrong.
Since Jesus saves, He knows who’s saved and unsaved. We don’t need to be categorizing individuals as to who is and who isn’t. Our’s is to share the Law and Gospel and God the Holy Sprirt will do the creating of faith for salvation. The Spirit testifies to the individual as to their personal salvation.
“26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of Gods judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings Gods mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said, I will take revenge. I will pay them back. He also said, The Lord will judge his own people. 31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” — Hebrews 10
The second resurrection is for those in Messiah. The final, for all the rest whereupon ALL the rest will be judged.
I’ve had this discussion with some who believe “once saved, always saved”, and shown them the clear language in scripture that says other than what they believe. Typically, they say, “I don’t see it.”
They read the verses, and they don’t see what scripture clearly says.
So, I will not longer discuss this with those who want to believe false doctrine so strongly. They are wrong and they will come to realize it, but too late. They have heard the gospel and rejected its truth.
Jesus does not demand perfection, only that we are facing in the right direction, and that we are willing to humbly turn back to the right direction if we stray.
**It doesnt even matter if someone altogether abandons their Christian faith.
They still have a ticket to Heaven.**
He’s using a lot of words to describe Purgatory.
Once saved always saved is another of those doctrines that comes from a completely wrong understanding of eschatology, as demonstrated by the pastor’s use of the parable of the talents and Revelation.
I work out my own salvation with fear and trembling.
I believe the pastor is entirely correct. Everything he said is Biblically sound. There will be a reward system in the afterlife- Christ mentioned this several times. His disciples even tried to position themselves by trying to nail Him down about who would sit on His right hand. He rebuked them, telling them they didn't know what they were asking.
God knows every heart. We also must be cognizant that God's ways are not our ways. First of all, when God makes a promise - that is it. He NEVER goes back on it. Israel is STILL God's chosen nation.
Moreover, the rewards are God's to give, we have NO RIGHT to tell Him how to spend them.
Matthew 20: 1-16
1For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard. 3 About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right. 5 So they went. He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing? 7 Because no one has hired us, they answered. He said to them, You also go and work in my vineyard. 8 When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first. 9 The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 These who were hired last worked only one hour, they said, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day. 13 But he answered one of them, I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didnt you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Dont I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous? 16 So the last will be first, and the first will be last.
Part of the difficulty we have understanding this, I think, is we are stuck on a conveyor belt of time, whereas God sees the whole of history complete beginning to end.
All I know is, Heaven’s up there and I’m not worthy to enter it no matter what I do here.
But the Lord sees me trying to stay out of trouble.
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid. -- Marcus Aurelius
Oh, but it does, Kemosabe.
"Un-Repentance" and repeated sinning violates the expressed contract with the Lord.
He knows our hearts.
The Gospels are full of teachings from Jesus about people and their works. How else to interpret the Parable of the Talents?
How else to interpret the Parable of The Vine and the Branches?
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.The branch which is connected to the vine (the faithful) will nonetheless be cut off if it does not bear fruit.
Repentence and conversion is a day in, day out effort.