Posted on 06/19/2013 1:00:37 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
Edited on 06/19/2013 1:53:31 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
*snip*
I share with you two concerns. One is the Pelagian current that there is in the Church at this moment. There are some restorationist groups. I know some, it fell upon me to receive them in Buenos Aires. And one feels as if one goes back 60 years! Before the Council... One feels in 1940... An anecdote, just to illustrate this, it is not to laugh at it, I took it with respect, but it concerns me; when I was elected, I received a letter from one of these groups, and they said: "Your Holiness, we offer you this spiritual treasure: 3,525 rosaries." Why don't they say, 'we pray for you, we ask...', but this thing of counting... And these groups return to practices and to disciplines that I lived through - not you, because you are not old - to disciplines, to things that in that moment took place, but not now, they do not exist today...
I am no longer a Catholic, but I sure grew up in a Catholic family and I have the greatest of respect for the religion of my parents (may they rest in peace). My parents wore out one set of rosary beads after the next. I think that they would be very discouraged to learn that they were engaged in an heretical practice their entire lives.
Comments?
I would agree that praying the Rosary is indeed heretical. Not just because it is Pelagian, but also since it’s prayer to a human being and not to God.
On the Rosary according to Popes:
From the Secret of the Rosary, endorsed by Pope Benedict:
“One day the King fell seriously ill and when he was given up for dead he found himself, in a vision, before the judgement seat of Our Lord. Many devils were there accusing him of all the sins he had committed and Our Lord as Sovereign Judge was just about to condemn him to hell when Our Lady appeared to intercede for him. She called for a pair of scales and had his sins placed in one of the balances whereas she put the rosary that he had always worn on the other scale, together with all the Rosaries that had been said because of his example. It was found that the Rosaries weighed more than his sins.
Looking at him with great kindness Our Lady said: “As a reward for this little honor that you paid me in wearing my Rosary, I have obtained a great grace for you from my Son. Your life will be spared for a few more years. See that you spend these years wisely, and do penance.”
When the King regained consciousness he cried out: “Blessed be the Rosary of the Most Holy Virgin Mary, by which I have been delivered from eternal damnation!”
After he had recovered his health he spent the rest of his life in spreading devotion to the Holy Rosary and said it faithfully every day.
People who love the Blessed Virgin out to follow the example of King Alphonsus and that of the saints whom I have mentioned so that they too may win other souls for the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary. They will then receive great graces on earth and eternal life later on. “They that explain me shall have life everlasting life.” [1] Ecclus. 24:31”
Another story on how saying rosaries can earn you salvation:
“Later on, when she was at prayer she fell into ecstasy and had a vision of her soul appearing before the Supreme Judge. Saint Michael put all her penances and to her prayers on one side of the scale and all her sins and imperfections on the other. The tray of her good works were greatly outweighed by that of her sins and imperfections.
Filled with alarm, she cried out for mercy, imploring the help of the Blessed Virgin, her gracious advocate, who took the one and only Rosary she had said for her penance and dropped it on the tray of her good works. This one Rosary was so heavy that it weighed more than all her sins as well as her good works. Our Lady then reproved her for having refused to follow the counsel of her servant Dominic and for not saying the Rosary every day.
As soon as she came to herself she rushed and threw herself at the feet of Saint Dominic and told him all that had happened, begged his forgiveness and promised to say the Rosary faithfully every day. By this means she rose to Christian perfection and finally to the glory of everlasting life.”
http://www.rosary-center.org/secret.htm
Popes on the “sure and most efficacious means” for help from heaven:
“We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. Now that the anniversary, therefore, of manifold and exceedingly great favours obtained by a Christian people through the devotion of the Rosary is at hand, We desire that that same devotion should be offered by the whole Catholic world with the greatest earnestness to the Blessed Virgin, that by her intercession her Divine Son may be appeased and softened in the evils which afflict us. And therefore We determined, Venerable Brethren, to despatch to you these letters in order that, informed of Our designs, your authority and zeal might excite the piety of your people to conform themselves to them.” (ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_01091883_supremi-apostolatus-officio_en.html
A decree to perform them:
“We decree and order that in the whole Catholic world, during this year, the devotion of the Rosary shall be solemnly celebrated by special and splendid services. From the first day of next October, therefore, until the second day of the November following, in every parish and, if the ecclesiastical authority deem it opportune and of use, in every chapel dedicated to the Blessed Virgin - let five decades of the Rosary be recited with the addition of the Litany of Loreto.” (SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
The importance of the Rosary to a Pope:
“With these words, dear brothers and sisters, I set the first year of my Pontificate within the daily rhythm of the Rosary. Today, as I begin the twenty-fifth year of my service as the Successor of Peter, I wish to do the same. How many graces have I received in these years from the Blessed Virgin through the Rosary: Magnificat anima mea Dominum! I wish to lift up my thanks to the Lord in the words of his Most Holy Mother, under whose protection I have placed my Petrine ministry: Totus Tuus!” (ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF JOHN PAUL II)
These are all pretty good reasons not to pray the Rosary at all:
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
“pray always” - Paul
people who pray not much, receive grace not much.
The reason that the Rosary was deemphasized after Vatican II was to discourage the pious practice of people attending Mass and praying the Rosary at the same time.
The public was made to know that the Mass was of infinitely more value toward our salvation than the praying of the Rosary, as well intended as it might have been.
One is encouraged to pray the Rosary on his/her own time but not during Mass.
I suppose it would depend on the person doing the praying, and whether their focus was on the content or merely the quantity of the prayers.
“people who pray not much, receive grace not much.”
People who recite a rosary 3,500 times, are not going to be saved by their sins because of the number of rosaries they prayed to Mary instead of to God.
Mat 6:7-9 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. (8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
I don’t take the quote as meaning Pope Francis considers the rosary heretical, but merely the equation that there is a linear relationship between works and the spiritual goods they produce. However, I’m fascinated as to why he calls this Pelagianism: “Pelagianism is the belief that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid.”
We actually pray the Rosary in lieu of attending the NO. I would consider the NO as detracting from the Rosary — why combine them? Much prefer the Sundays when a Tridentine Mass is available, of course, when we do both (Rosary before and after the Mass).
The pope did not like the fact that the group saw fit to give a number indicating how many rosaries would be said. The group gave the number in good faith. The pope did not see the need for giving a number. He would have prefered they just told him they were praying fervently. He was not declaring this a heresy!
The pope’s words were about a specific thing. Don’t expand the scope of his words beyond what he meant.
He’s either too traditional or not traditional enough! He will be criticized if he says it’s raining or if he doesn’t say it’s raining. He can’t please everybody, and he doesn’t need to.
Ping for later
Did the Pope Just Declare the Rosary Heretical?
Good for him, if so.
Fortunately, he said no such thing. And good for him. He expressed discomfort with the idea of quantifying prayer, and I’m inclined to agree with him.
The rosary is the prayer of the Gospels. Praying the Gospels is not heretical. Suggest you familiarize yourself with the first chapter of the Gospel of Luke, for starters.
"But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God. Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation." Romans 2:5-8
"For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil." 2 Corinthians 5:10
"Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works." 2 Corinthians 11:15
"You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity." Galatians 5:4-6
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:8-10
"Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to His good will." Philippians 2:12-13
"Knowing that you shall receive of the Lord the reward of inheritance. Serve ye the Lord Christ. For he that doth wrong, shall receive for that which he hath done wrongfully: and there is no respect of persons with God." Colossians 3:24-25
"What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?" James 2:14
"So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself." James 2:17
"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20
"Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" James 2:24
"For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead." James 2:26
"And if you invoke as Father Him who, without respect of persons, judgeth according to every one's work: converse in fear during the time of your sojourning here." 1 Peter 1:17
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works." Apocalypse 20:12-13
"And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation; as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16
Will you ever learn that one must walk the walk not just talk the talk? Unlikely.
“The rosary is the prayer of the Gospels.”
Is THIS in the Gospel?:
From the Secret of the Rosary:
“One day the King fell seriously ill and when he was given up for dead he found himself, in a vision, before the judgement seat of Our Lord. Many devils were there accusing him of all the sins he had committed and Our Lord as Sovereign Judge was just about to condemn him to hell when Our Lady appeared to intercede for him. She called for a pair of scales and had his sins placed in one of the balances whereas she put the rosary that he had always worn on the other scale, together with all the Rosaries that had been said because of his example. It was found that the Rosaries weighed more than his sins.”
“Will you ever learn that one must walk the walk not just talk the talk?”
Will you ever learn that your works cannot please God and save you from your sins?
Evidently he's pretty comfortable with sacrilege.
Actually, there is no proof that he said any of this.
Buckeye McFrog wrote:
“I suppose it would depend on the person doing the praying, and whether their focus was on the content or merely the quantity of the prayers.”
I would agree with Buckeye, on this one.
I do know that the ‘construction’ of a rosary, has meaning and reverence, to those that make note of that act. If, by noting that, they are not ‘counting the bead number content per prayer’, but noting that point of reverence, in between their fingers at that moment, built into the rosary, it is with their heart that, I believe, those folks are making that connection.
I have heard heart-felt prayers by those holding their special rosaries in their hands. I have heard those who pray, holding their rosaries, at racetrack speed, the poor bead set in motion, almost as a ‘medium-speed drive belt’!
(I thought it was going to come apart.)
I might think that both ‘are accomplishing what they set out to do’, but ‘prayer-closet strength’ vs. ‘street-corner Pharisetical machine-gunning votives’, my vote is ‘on the closet’.
THIS is in the Gospel:
“And the angel being come in, said unto to her: Hail, full grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.”
-Luke 1:28
“And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.”
-Luke 1:42
The Rosary also contains the Lord’s Prayer 11 times. The ancient creed, the belief of the early church, is also in the Rosary. So is the praise of God, which is all over the Psalms, in the Rosary in the “Glory Be”.
Are you sure the Rosary is unscriptural?
My bad, a 5 decade Rosary contains the Lord’s Prayer 6 times.
Exactly. Scripture doesn't forbid repetitious prayer, but vain repetitions. The psalms are filled with repetitions. Jesus prayed the same prayer 3 times in his agony. And Revelation tells us that in heaven the same prayer of adoration is repeated without cease. One cannot claim that prayer of the rosary is vain without ability to judge the heart of the one praying it.
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