Skip to comments.Catholics Worship at Tree Weeping Miraculous Liquid; But Experts Say 'Tears' Are Just Bug Poop
Posted on 08/15/2013 7:53:55 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
A growing number of Catholics have been flocking to the St. John's Cathedral in Fresno, Calif., to worship under a Crape Myrtle tree said to be weeping a miraculous healing liquid from God, but scientists say those "tears" are just a steady stream of bug poop.
Despite what the scientists say, however, the faithful maintain the liquid is a touch from God for believers.
"They can say it's this theory, that theory, the tree does this every year, it's odd when it happens when there is bunch of people praying. When you are asking the Holy Spirit to reveal itself and then it happens all of a sudden and it's still here," said Janine Esquivel-Oji told My Fox Philly.
"When you say 'glory be to God in Jesus' name' the tree starts throwing out more water," explained Maria Ybarra to KGPE-TV.
Ybarra was the first person to experience the miracle of the droplets coming from the tree while she was praying with a sick woman under it. The tree released water unto the sick woman and she said she felt better.
"Then she said 'oh my gosh, I hadn't feel good, and then when the water was hitting me it changed me I feel peace.' I said the Lord be with you. The Lord said peace be with you, peace I give you, " Ybarra told My Fox Philly.
"I said my prayer and asked the Lord to give me a miracle cause I'm really, really sick," Rosemarie Navarro told KGPE.
A number of the faithful flocking to the tree even brought their children along to see the miracle in motion.
"I'm like let's go, you guys can take a look for yourselves and then you can decide. When you get there you can decide if it was a tree that got wet," Jenny Estevez noted to My Fox Philly.
Entomologist Richard Covelo, however, explained that the tears coming from the tree are simply honey dew "a sweet liquid emitted from the anus of aphids and some other sap sucking bugs" according to an online definition.
"Crape Myrtle trees as a generality can get really high populations of Crape Myrtle aphids and at times it can look so bad that it looks like the tree is raining out of it with all the honey dew dripping down," said Covelo.
Ybarra, however, maintains that the liquid isn't coming for the bugs' anus.
"I know it's coming from God, and ye of little faith will not reach the kingdom of God," she said.
Augustine Against Transubstantiation
On the Sacramental Language. The Eucharist is Christs body and blood in a certain manner of speaking.
You know that in ordinary parlance we often say, when Easter is approaching, Tomorrow or the day after is the Lords Passion, although He suffered so many years ago, and His passion was endured once for all time. In like manner, on Easter Sunday, we say, This day the Lord rose from the dead, although so many years have passed since His resurrection. But no one is so foolish as to accuse us of falsehood when we use these phrases, for this reason, that we give such names to these days on the ground of a likeness between them and the days on which the events referred to actually transpired, the day being called the day of that event, although it is not the very day on which the event took place, but one corresponding to it by the revolution of the same time of the year, and the event itself being said to take place on that day, because, although it really took place long before, it is on that day sacramentally celebrated. Was not Christ once for all offered up in His own person as a sacrifice? And yet, is He not likewise offered up in the sacrament as a sacrifice, not only in the special solemnities of Easter, but also daily among our congregations; so that the man who, being questioned, answers that He is offered as a sacrifice in that ordinance, declares what is strictly true? For if sacraments had not some points of real resemblance to the things of which they are the sacraments, they would not be sacraments at all. In most cases, moreover, they do in virtue of this likeness bear the names of the realities which they resemble. As, therefore, in a certain manner the sacrament of Christs body is Christs body, and the sacrament of Christs blood is Christs blood. (Augustine, Letters 98)
The Eucharist, which does not merely symbolize the body of Christ, but the entire church too, not really consumed. The invisible reality that it represents does not pass away.
What you can see passes away, but the invisible reality signified does not pass away, but remains. Look, its received, its eaten, its consumed. Is the body of Christ consumed, is the Church of Christ consumed, are the members of Christ consumed? Perish the thought! Here they are being purified, there they will be crowned with the victors laurels. So what is signified will remain eternally, although the thing that signifies it seems to pass away. So receive the sacrament in such a way that you think about yourselves, that you retain unity in your hearts, that you always fix your hearts up above. Dont let your hope be placed on earth, but in heaven. Let your faith be firm in God, let it be acceptable to God. Because what you dont see now, but believe, you are going to see there, where you will have joy without end. (Augustine, Ser. 227)
Sacraments being used symbolically to express spiritual truths. For example, the sacrament of the Holy Spirit, which is the oil.
Then came baptism, and you were, in a manner of speaking, moistened with water in order to be shaped into bread. But its not yet bread without fire to bake it. So what does fire represent? Thats the chrism, the anointing. Oil, the fire-feeder, you see, is the sacrament of the Holy Spirit. (Same as above)
Another, the sacrament of the kiss of peace:
After that comes Peace be with you; a great sacrament, the kiss of peace. So kiss in such a way as really meaning that you love. Dont be Judas; Judas the traitor kissed Christ with his mouth, while setting a trap for him in his heart. But perhaps somebody has unfriendly feelings toward you, and you are unable to win him round, to show him hes wrong; youre obliged to tolerate him. Dont pay him back evil for evil in your heart. He hates; just you love, and you can kiss him without anxiety. (Same as above)
The body and blood of Christ consumed through faith without eating or drinking.
They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? For He had said to them, Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto eternal life. What shall we do? they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent. This is then to eat the meat, not that which perisheth, but that which endureth unto eternal life. To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already. (Augustine, Tractate 25)
The body of Christ not held by any believer, even in the sacrament.
Let them come to the church and hear where Christ is, and take Him. They may hear it from us, they may hear it from the gospel. He was slain by their forefathers, He was buried, He rose again, He was recognized by the disciples, He ascended before their eyes into heaven, and there sitteth at the right hand of the Father; and He who was judged is yet to come as Judge of all: let them hear, and hold fast. Do they reply, How shall I take hold of the absent? how shall I stretch up my hand into heaven, and take hold of one who is sitting there? Stretch up thy faith, and thou hast got hold. Thy forefathers held by the flesh, hold thou with the heart; for the absent Christ is also present. But for His presence, we ourselves were unable to hold Him. (Augustine, Tractate 50)
Christ must be understood spiritually, not carnally.
It seemed unto them hard that He said, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, ye have no life in you: they received it foolishly, they thought of it carnally, and imagined that the Lord would cut off parts from His body, and give unto them; and they said, This is a hard saying. It was they who were hard, not the saying; for unless they had been hard, and not meek, they would have said unto themselves, He saith not this without reason, but there must be some latent mystery herein. They would have remained with Him, softened, not hard: and would have learnt that from Him which they who remained, when the others departed, learnt. For when twelve disciples had remained with Him, on their departure, these remaining followers suggested to Him, as if in grief for the death of the former, that they were offended by His words, and turned back. But He instructed them, and saith unto them, It is the Spirit that quickeneth, but the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I have spoken unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Understand spiritually what I have said; ye are not to eat this body which ye see; nor to drink that blood which they who will crucify Me shall pour forth. I have commended unto you a certain mystery; spiritually understood, it will quicken. Although it is needful that this be visibly celebrated, yet it must be spiritually understood. NPNF1: Vol. VIII, St. Augustin on the Psalms, Psalm 99 (98)
To believe in Christ is to eat the living bread.
Wherefore, the Lord, about to give the Holy Spirit, said that Himself was the bread that came down from heaven, exhorting us to believe in Him. For to believe in Him is to eat the living bread. He that believes eats; he is sated invisibly, because invisibly is he born again. A babe within, a new man within. Where he is made new, there he is satisfied with food. (12) What then did the Lord answer to such murmurers? Murmur not among yourselves. As if He said, I know why you are not hungry, and do not understand nor seek after this bread. Murmur not among yourselves: no man can come unto me, except the Father that sent me draw him. Noble excellence of grace! No man comes unless drawn. There is whom He draws, and there is whom He draws not; why He draws one and draws not another, do not desire to judge, if you desire not to err. (Augustine, Tractate 26)
This cannot be so if the ancients believed in Roman Catholic transubstantiation, which says that the elements are really and truly the body and blood of Christ.
Your quote from his exposition on Psalm 99 is out of context, and is in direct reference to Jesus Christ. You do not quote wherein he says it must be “spiritually understood,” as I have.
Your quote from sermon 227 has an ellipses that removes the section wherein Augustine declares that we are the Eucharist offered on the table. It is our body, and Christ’s body. Though it is not literally our bodies.
Luckily I have enough experience with Augustine’s writings to refute the anti-Protestant retreads on FR.
Thank you. Very appropriate and appreciated. Some folks just can’t resist cherry picking Church Fathers and twisting them to suit their heresies.
I've been on FreeRepublic for 12 years. You've been here for four months. Let the reader beware.
Reader beware, read Augustine and not the selective quoting Catholic.
If you knew the full extent of Augustine’s teachings, let’s just say you’d gladly give him to me. It’s not a coincidence that Luther was an Augustinian monk, and Calvin quotes Augustine more than 500 times in his Institutes.
You’ve read Augustine. But you’ve never truly understood his views on the Real Presence. You’ve simply read him with an agenda. Anyone who tries to cherry pick Augustine to disprove the Real Presence has no grasp on Augustine whatsoever.
LOL, you keep right on believing that fella. “Why dost thou ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already.”
And how many times have you posted an Opus only to reappear? IIRC 4 or 5.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
My 40' Cedar of Lebanon tree does the same thing in early July and it is aphids. At least my tree has ties to the Middle East. All you Protestants can laugh because there IS a statue of Mary inside the window facing the tree; but it has nothing to do with the tree.
I do believe in many Catholic (and other) miracles but this one is just a nature calls kind of thing for the bugs.
I was banned for exposing a poster who was fraudulently presenting themself as an ordained Catholic Permanent Deacon. If you can find an Opus penned by me that lead to my being banned I’d sure like to see it. Not saying it didn’t happen but I find it amazing that an anti-Catholic poster remembers multiple Opii on my part but I don’t recall posting an Opus. Of course Alzheimer’s runs on my mom’s side...
Thank you for posting this, I had always wondered what happened to that heretical Sinkspur! Based on your post above, a quick web search provided the detailed answer. I am relieved first that he was a fraud and never spoke from a position of authority within the Church; and second, that he was exposed for the pathetic scoundrel that he was. Well done, sir, well done!!!
Actually, I didn’t “remember” any Opus of yours. I was just messing with you, since you said the same thing to me. It was just a coincidence that you were actually a retread, apparently.
::Sigh:: Do you ever read Catholic posts here? The ones about "brain-dead bibliolators," "Bible-thumpers," and "snake handlers?" Or the numerous Catholic posts speculating that various Biblical events never actually happened? Shoot, we recently saw an article posted that said that G-d never actually ordered the extermination of the Canaanites because it would have violated "natural law!" (I guess that's where the Left gets its non-Theistically based moral systems.)
This stuff is posted here all the time. Why are so many people acting as if it hasn't happened?
Do you get that evolution and higher criticism are more your obsessions than those of poor Latinos in Fresno?
Latinos? The "simple people" the Left (and the Catholic Church) never attack or make fun of?
You let me know when rednecks get the same respect for either.
That's a very select group unrepresentative of Catholics as a whole -- more like you than the average churchgoing (let alone non-churchgoing) Catholic.
Most of the Catholics I knew have never heard of the "higher criticism." That's probably true of most Mainstream Protestants nowadays.
What I notice lately is people taking every story that comes along as an assault by one group on another and then reaching out for something they can throw back at the other group. It's not very inspiring.
Latinos? The "simple people" the Left (and the Catholic Church) never attack or make fun of?
Okay, you have a quarrel with the left and you think it justifies an attack on people just because the left doesn't attack them?
You let me know when rednecks get the same respect for either.
And that's the other thing, people assuming that everything goes one way, that there's some group that's always the victim and some group that always does the victimizing. It's not always that simple.
I doubt the mainstream media is ever going to love or approve of fundamentalists or "rednecks" but with all the airtime Duck Dynasty and Honey Boo-Boo are getting, it's clear that things have gotten a little more complicated than they once were.
How dare you attempt to ridicule the Monumental Intellectual Tradition that built Western Civilization, you brain-dead Bibliolator??? You're just mad 'cause you ain't smart enough to be Catholic! (Unlike the geniuses in this article.)[/sarcasm]
This sort of thing leads me to better understand just why Catholics were so widely regarded as superstitious peasants in the founding era of this country.
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