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Catholics Worship at Tree Weeping Miraculous Liquid; But Experts Say 'Tears' Are Just Bug Poop
Christian Post ^ | August 13, 2013 | Leonardo Blair

Posted on 08/15/2013 7:53:55 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

A growing number of Catholics have been flocking to the St. John's Cathedral in Fresno, Calif., to worship under a Crape Myrtle tree said to be weeping a miraculous healing liquid from God, but scientists say those "tears" are just a steady stream of bug poop.

Despite what the scientists say, however, the faithful maintain the liquid is a touch from God for believers.

"They can say it's this theory, that theory, the tree does this every year, it's odd when it happens when there is bunch of people praying. When you are asking the Holy Spirit to reveal itself and then it happens all of a sudden and it's still here," said Janine Esquivel-Oji told My Fox Philly.

"When you say 'glory be to God in Jesus' name' the tree starts throwing out more water," explained Maria Ybarra to KGPE-TV.

Ybarra was the first person to experience the miracle of the droplets coming from the tree while she was praying with a sick woman under it. The tree released water unto the sick woman and she said she felt better.

"Then she said 'oh my gosh, I hadn't feel good, and then when the water was hitting me it changed me I feel peace.' I said the Lord be with you. The Lord said peace be with you, peace I give you, " Ybarra told My Fox Philly.

"I said my prayer and asked the Lord to give me a miracle cause I'm really, really sick," Rosemarie Navarro told KGPE.

A number of the faithful flocking to the tree even brought their children along to see the miracle in motion.

"I'm like let's go, you guys can take a look for yourselves and then you can decide. When you get there you can decide if it was a tree that got wet," Jenny Estevez noted to My Fox Philly.

Entomologist Richard Covelo, however, explained that the tears coming from the tree are simply honey dew – "a sweet liquid emitted from the anus of aphids and some other sap sucking bugs" according to an online definition.

"Crape Myrtle trees as a generality can get really high populations of Crape Myrtle aphids and at times it can look so bad that it looks like the tree is raining out of it with all the honey dew dripping down," said Covelo.

Ybarra, however, maintains that the liquid isn't coming for the bugs' anus.

"I know it's coming from God, and ye of little faith will not reach the kingdom of God," she said.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Science; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic
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To: Alex Murphy
For Catholics, "manna" = bug poop? That would actually make a lot of sense.

Stepping out of my sarcastic persona for a moment, the parashat man in Exodus 16 makes a big point of the presence of quails that cover the ground before the manna is gathered. There must be some connection, or the Torah would not note this (everything in the Torah is there for a reason).

51 posted on 08/15/2013 2:08:33 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: GBA
Those who see with their hearts, and in whose faith in Spirit abides a belief in wonder, like as a child, they have a better experience when they hear His knock at the door or seek His help.

That's not the attitude Catholics take when simple people interpret Genesis 1-11 as literal history.

52 posted on 08/15/2013 2:09:48 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
If it was proven that the Old Testament manna was also something akin to dried Crape Myrtle tree bug poop, would modern Protestants be mocking the Old Testament Jews the way they are mocking these simple faithful Christians now?

Hah! I'll bet every single one of these "simple faithful chrstians" is an evolutionist and a higher critic.

53 posted on 08/15/2013 2:13:56 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Hah! I'll bet every single one of these "simple faithful chrstians" is an evolutionist and a higher critic.

You need to get out more, or maybe just cut yourself off from the world -- including the Internet.

I doubt these good people haven't thought much about the first or heard about the second.

Also, I doubt most Catholics are really up for putting your "simple people" down -- or for talking that much about Protestantism or Fundamentalism.

Do you get that evolution and higher criticism are more your obsessions than those of poor Latinos in Fresno?

54 posted on 08/15/2013 2:19:18 PM PDT by x
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Well, I not Catholic and I beleive there are modern day miracles.


55 posted on 08/15/2013 2:47:09 PM PDT by Bruinator ("For socialism is not merely the labour question, it is before all things an atheistic question")
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To: MEGoody

Don’t worry, the Catholics are getting in on the “holylaughter” too with the Charismatic Catholics recently endorsed by “Papa” Francis.


56 posted on 08/15/2013 6:28:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

I don’t think scriptural manna appearing for the Jews in the wilderness, which they ate for 40 years and provided for all their needs, can be compared to some Catholics taking a bath in bug poo around a tree that looks like it’s in somebody’s parking lot.


57 posted on 08/15/2013 6:31:44 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

“Amazing that folks here believe manna was supernatural (as do I) but that that which it prefigured, the True Presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist, is only symbolic, in contradiction of the plain clear sense of scription of John 6.”


Here is Augustine on the plain clear sense of scripture on John 6:

“They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? For He had said to them, Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that which endures unto eternal life. What shall we do? they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. This is then to eat the meat, not that which perishes, but that which endures unto eternal life. To what purpose do you make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and you have eaten already.” (Augustine, Tractate 25 on John 6:15-44)


58 posted on 08/15/2013 6:36:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
And even more from Augustine regarding John 6 and the Holy Eucharist:

Christ was carried in His Own hands when, referring to His Own body, He said, “This is My body.” For He carried that body in His hands (Explanations of the Psalms 33, 1, 10).

[Jesus] received earth from earth; because flesh is from the earth, and He took flesh from the flesh of Mary. He walked here in the same flesh, and gave us the same flesh to be eaten unto salvation. But no one eats that flesh unless he first adores it... and not only do we not sin by adoring [His flesh], we do sin by not adoring (Explanations of the Psalms 98, 9). I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table, which you now look upon and of which last night were made participants. You ought to know what you have received, what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the blood of Christ.... What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ (Sermons 227).

The faithful know what I am saying. They know Christ in the breaking of the bread. For not all bread, but only that which receives the blessing of Christ, becomes Christ’s body (Sermons 234, 2).4

59 posted on 08/15/2013 7:06:14 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Fortunately us Catholics aren’t too concerned about the opinion of retread anti-Catholic trolls on FR.


60 posted on 08/15/2013 7:11:10 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Augustine — Against Transubstantiation

On the Sacramental Language. The Eucharist is Christ’s body and blood “in a certain manner” of speaking.

“You know that in ordinary parlance we often say, when Easter is approaching, Tomorrow or the day after is the Lord’s Passion, although He suffered so many years ago, and His passion was endured once for all time. In like manner, on Easter Sunday, we say, This day the Lord rose from the dead, although so many years have passed since His resurrection. But no one is so foolish as to accuse us of falsehood when we use these phrases, for this reason, that we give such names to these days on the ground of a likeness between them and the days on which the events referred to actually transpired, the day being called the day of that event, although it is not the very day on which the event took place, but one corresponding to it by the revolution of the same time of the year, and the event itself being said to take place on that day, because, although it really took place long before, it is on that day sacramentally celebrated. Was not Christ once for all offered up in His own person as a sacrifice? And yet, is He not likewise offered up in the sacrament as a sacrifice, not only in the special solemnities of Easter, but also daily among our congregations; so that the man who, being questioned, answers that He is offered as a sacrifice in that ordinance, declares what is strictly true? For if sacraments had not some points of real resemblance to the things of which they are the sacraments, they would not be sacraments at all. In most cases, moreover, they do in virtue of this likeness bear the names of the realities which they resemble. As, therefore, in a certain manner the sacrament of Christ’s body is Christ’s body, and the sacrament of Christ’s blood is Christ’s blood.” (Augustine, Letters 98)

The Eucharist, which does not merely symbolize the body of Christ, but the entire church too, “not really consumed.” The invisible reality that it represents does not pass away.

“What you can see passes away, but the invisible reality signified does not pass away, but remains. Look, it’s received, it’s eaten, it’s consumed. Is the body of Christ consumed, is the Church of Christ consumed, are the members of Christ consumed? Perish the thought! Here they are being purified, there they will be crowned with the victor’s laurels. So what is signified will remain eternally, although the thing that signifies it seems to pass away. So receive the sacrament in such a way that you think about yourselves, that you retain unity in your hearts, that you always fix your hearts up above. Don’t let your hope be placed on earth, but in heaven. Let your faith be firm in God, let it be acceptable to God. Because what you don’t see now, but believe, you are going to see there, where you will have joy without end.” (Augustine, Ser. 227)

Sacraments being used symbolically to express spiritual truths. For example, the sacrament of the Holy Spirit, which is the oil.

“Then came baptism, and you were, in a manner of speaking, moistened with water in order to be shaped into bread. But it’s not yet bread without fire to bake it. So what does fire represent? That’s the chrism, the anointing. Oil, the fire-feeder, you see, is the sacrament of the Holy Spirit.” (Same as above)

Another, the sacrament of the kiss of peace:

“After that comes Peace be with you; a great sacrament, the kiss of peace. So kiss in such a way as really meaning that you love. Don’t be Judas; Judas the traitor kissed Christ with his mouth, while setting a trap for him in his heart. But perhaps somebody has unfriendly feelings toward you, and you are unable to win him round, to show him he’s wrong; you’re obliged to tolerate him. Don’t pay him back evil for evil in your heart. He hates; just you love, and you can kiss him without anxiety.” (Same as above)

The body and blood of Christ consumed through faith without eating or drinking.

“They said therefore unto Him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” For He had said to them, “œLabor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that which endureth unto eternal life.” “What shall we do?” they ask; by observing what, shall we be able to fulfill this precept? “Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He has sent.” This is then to eat the meat, not that which perisheth, but that which endureth unto eternal life. To what purpose dost thou make ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already. (Augustine, Tractate 25)

The body of Christ not held by any believer, even in the sacrament.

“Let them come to the church and hear where Christ is, and take Him. They may hear it from us, they may hear it from the gospel. He was slain by their forefathers, He was buried, He rose again, He was recognized by the disciples, He ascended before their eyes into heaven, and there sitteth at the right hand of the Father; and He who was judged is yet to come as Judge of all: let them hear, and hold fast. Do they reply, How shall I take hold of the absent? how shall I stretch up my hand into heaven, and take hold of one who is sitting there? Stretch up thy faith, and thou hast got hold. Thy forefathers held by the flesh, hold thou with the heart; for the absent Christ is also present. But for His presence, we ourselves were unable to hold Him.” (Augustine, Tractate 50)

Christ must be understood spiritually, not carnally.

“It seemed unto them hard that He said, “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of Man, ye have no life in you:” they received it foolishly, they thought of it carnally, and imagined that the Lord would cut off parts from His body, and give unto them; and they said, “This is a hard saying.” It was they who were hard, not the saying; for unless they had been hard, and not meek, they would have said unto themselves, He saith not this without reason, but there must be some latent mystery herein. They would have remained with Him, softened, not hard: and would have learnt that from Him which they who remained, when the others departed, learnt. For when twelve disciples had remained with Him, on their departure, these remaining followers suggested to Him, as if in grief for the death of the former, that they were offended by His words, and turned back. But He instructed them, and saith unto them, “It is the Spirit that quickeneth, but the flesh profiteth nothing; the words that I have spoken unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” Understand spiritually what I have said; ye are not to eat this body which ye see; nor to drink that blood which they who will crucify Me shall pour forth. I have commended unto you a certain mystery; spiritually understood, it will quicken. Although it is needful that this be visibly celebrated, yet it must be spiritually understood.” NPNF1: Vol. VIII, St. Augustin on the Psalms, Psalm 99 (98)

To believe in Christ is to eat the living bread.

“Wherefore, the Lord, about to give the Holy Spirit, said that Himself was the bread that came down from heaven, exhorting us to believe in Him. For to believe in Him is to eat the living bread. He that believes eats; he is sated invisibly, because invisibly is he born again. A babe within, a new man within. Where he is made new, there he is satisfied with food. (12) What then did the Lord answer to such murmurers? Murmur not among yourselves. As if He said, I know why you are not hungry, and do not understand nor seek after this bread. Murmur not among yourselves: no man can come unto me, except the Father that sent me draw him. Noble excellence of grace! No man comes unless drawn. There is whom He draws, and there is whom He draws not; why He draws one and draws not another, do not desire to judge, if you desire not to err.” (Augustine, Tractate 26)

This cannot be so if the ancients believed in Roman Catholic transubstantiation, which says that the elements are really and truly the body and blood of Christ.

Your quote from his exposition on Psalm 99 is out of context, and is in direct reference to Jesus Christ. You do not quote wherein he says it must be “spiritually understood,” as I have.

Your quote from sermon 227 has an ellipses that removes the section wherein Augustine declares that we are the Eucharist offered on the table. It is our body, and Christ’s body. Though it is not literally our bodies.

Luckily I have enough experience with Augustine’s writings to refute the anti-Protestant retreads on FR.


61 posted on 08/15/2013 7:16:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans


62 posted on 08/15/2013 7:20:27 PM PDT by narses
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Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: narses

Thank you. Very appropriate and appreciated. Some folks just can’t resist cherry picking Church Fathers and twisting them to suit their heresies.


64 posted on 08/15/2013 7:28:05 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I have enough experience ... to refute the anti-Protestant retreads on FR

I've been on FreeRepublic for 12 years. You've been here for four months. Let the reader beware.

66 posted on 08/15/2013 7:51:44 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM; All

Reader beware, read Augustine and not the selective quoting Catholic.

If you knew the full extent of Augustine’s teachings, let’s just say you’d gladly give him to me. It’s not a coincidence that Luther was an Augustinian monk, and Calvin quotes Augustine more than 500 times in his Institutes.


67 posted on 08/15/2013 7:55:06 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

You’ve read Augustine. But you’ve never truly understood his views on the Real Presence. You’ve simply read him with an agenda. Anyone who tries to cherry pick Augustine to disprove the Real Presence has no grasp on Augustine whatsoever.


68 posted on 08/15/2013 7:59:44 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

LOL, you keep right on believing that fella. “Why dost thou ready teeth and stomach? Believe, and thou hast eaten already.”


69 posted on 08/15/2013 8:09:20 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

And how many times have you posted an Opus only to reappear? IIRC 4 or 5.


70 posted on 08/15/2013 8:29:45 PM PDT by Gamecock (Member: NAACAC)
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To: Gamecock; Brian Kopp DPM; Greetings_Puny_Humans
Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

71 posted on 08/15/2013 8:47:33 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Thank you.


72 posted on 08/15/2013 9:39:56 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Seriously, go stand under any Crape Myrtle tree in California during the summer and you'll experience the same thing.

My 40' Cedar of Lebanon tree does the same thing in early July and it is aphids. At least my tree has ties to the Middle East. All you Protestants can laugh because there IS a statue of Mary inside the window facing the tree; but it has nothing to do with the tree.

I do believe in many Catholic (and other) miracles but this one is just a nature calls kind of thing for the bugs.

73 posted on 08/15/2013 9:49:08 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture.)
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To: Gamecock

I was banned for exposing a poster who was fraudulently presenting themself as an ordained Catholic Permanent Deacon. If you can find an Opus penned by me that lead to my being banned I’d sure like to see it. Not saying it didn’t happen but I find it amazing that an anti-Catholic poster remembers multiple Opii on my part but I don’t recall posting an Opus. Of course Alzheimer’s runs on my mom’s side...


74 posted on 08/15/2013 9:57:29 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
I was banned for exposing a poster who was fraudulently presenting themself as an ordained Catholic Permanent Deacon.

Thank you for posting this, I had always wondered what happened to that heretical Sinkspur! Based on your post above, a quick web search provided the detailed answer. I am relieved first that he was a fraud and never spoke from a position of authority within the Church; and second, that he was exposed for the pathetic scoundrel that he was. Well done, sir, well done!!!

75 posted on 08/15/2013 10:09:31 PM PDT by Ronaldus Magnus
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To: Brian Kopp DPM; Gamecock

Actually, I didn’t “remember” any Opus of yours. I was just messing with you, since you said the same thing to me. It was just a coincidence that you were actually a retread, apparently.


76 posted on 08/15/2013 10:54:13 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: x
Also, I doubt most Catholics are really up for putting your "simple people" down -- or for talking that much about Protestantism or Fundamentalism.

::Sigh:: Do you ever read Catholic posts here? The ones about "brain-dead bibliolators," "Bible-thumpers," and "snake handlers?" Or the numerous Catholic posts speculating that various Biblical events never actually happened? Shoot, we recently saw an article posted that said that G-d never actually ordered the extermination of the Canaanites because it would have violated "natural law!" (I guess that's where the Left gets its non-Theistically based moral systems.)

This stuff is posted here all the time. Why are so many people acting as if it hasn't happened?

Do you get that evolution and higher criticism are more your obsessions than those of poor Latinos in Fresno?

Latinos? The "simple people" the Left (and the Catholic Church) never attack or make fun of?

You let me know when rednecks get the same respect for either.

77 posted on 08/18/2013 1:38:52 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
:Sigh:: Do you ever read Catholic posts here? The ones about "brain-dead bibliolators," "Bible-thumpers," and "snake handlers?" Or the numerous Catholic posts speculating that various Biblical events never actually happened? Shoot, we recently saw an article posted that said that G-d never actually ordered the extermination of the Canaanites because it would have violated "natural law!"

That's a very select group unrepresentative of Catholics as a whole -- more like you than the average churchgoing (let alone non-churchgoing) Catholic.

Most of the Catholics I knew have never heard of the "higher criticism." That's probably true of most Mainstream Protestants nowadays.

What I notice lately is people taking every story that comes along as an assault by one group on another and then reaching out for something they can throw back at the other group. It's not very inspiring.

Latinos? The "simple people" the Left (and the Catholic Church) never attack or make fun of?

Okay, you have a quarrel with the left and you think it justifies an attack on people just because the left doesn't attack them?

You let me know when rednecks get the same respect for either.

And that's the other thing, people assuming that everything goes one way, that there's some group that's always the victim and some group that always does the victimizing. It's not always that simple.

I doubt the mainstream media is ever going to love or approve of fundamentalists or "rednecks" but with all the airtime Duck Dynasty and Honey Boo-Boo are getting, it's clear that things have gotten a little more complicated than they once were.

78 posted on 08/19/2013 2:29:58 PM PDT by x
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Now, now! Scientists are only competent when they deny the historicity of Genesis 1-11! Catholic miracles are outside their purview.

How dare you attempt to ridicule the Monumental Intellectual Tradition that built Western Civilization, you brain-dead Bibliolator??? You're just mad 'cause you ain't smart enough to be Catholic! (Unlike the geniuses in this article.)[/sarcasm]

LOL!!!!!!

79 posted on 08/19/2013 3:33:08 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Alex Murphy

This sort of thing leads me to better understand just why Catholics were so widely regarded as superstitious peasants in the founding era of this country.


80 posted on 08/19/2013 3:49:24 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: MEGoody

I was raised as a Lutheran and not once did I hear any ‘holy laughter’.


81 posted on 08/24/2013 11:28:03 AM PDT by POWERSBOOTHEFAN (Causing trouble since 1976)
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To: POWERSBOOTHEFAN
I was raised as a Lutheran and not once did I hear any ‘holy laughter’.

It doesn't happen in my Protestant denomination either, it does in some.

82 posted on 08/27/2013 6:14:36 AM PDT by MEGoody (You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: MEGoody

That is the Pentecostals, of which I am not one.

Oneness Pentecostals are considered a cult. They deny the Trinity, say the evidence of salvation is speaking in tongues (holy laughter).

Used to live across the street from some and they did not like me very much, as I was never shy about telling them that all that was hogwash...kinda like I do the Catholics. :)


83 posted on 09/23/2013 7:30:31 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Oneness Pentecostals are considered a cult. As are Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel, Joel Osteen, and others. So get it straight before ya hit send.

http://www.cephasministry.com/toronto_background_of_holy_laughter.html

It is interesting to me that Catholics only choose to mention those “Protestants,” and I use the term loosely, that are not godly or believers at all.

Believe it or not, some of us really are born again and Spirit filled and not Catholic. You can call us Protestant if you wish, but I am a bible-believing Christian.


84 posted on 09/23/2013 7:42:19 AM PDT by jodyel
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