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MegaChurch or Catholic Church?
taylormarshall.com ^ | August 26, 2013 | Dr. Taylor Marshall

Posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer

Megachurch. Two young ladies. Both had left the Catholic Church. Both were now attending “megachurches.” We had a good chat together. I wanted to understand their reasons for why they left the Catholic Church for a megachurch.

megachurches

Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

I was at the bank and somehow I got into a spiritual conversation with two Hispanic executives that worked there.

Why the Megachurch?

When I asked why they exchanged the Catholic Church for the megachurch, they gave me a number of reasons:

  1. “My new church has an iPhone app. I can go on my iPhone and get Bible studies, sermons (video and audio). When I travel I can still watch the sermon, either live or later. I feel apart of the community.”
  2. “The preaching is dynamic and speaks to my life. I find practical encouragement.”
  3. “I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”
  4. “People were not friendly or welcoming at the Catholic Church. The first time I went to my new church, I was welcomed by so many people.”
  5. “My new church has classes and courses that are interesting and helpful.”
  6. “The music is better.”
  7. “In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”
  8. “People pray for each other and know each other (in the megachurch).”

Although these two ladies didn’t articulate it explicitly to me, I could tell that they were very proud of their new churches. I could also discern in them a surprise that I am so “spiritual” and yet I am very excited about being Catholic. They assumed the “with it” people were leaving Catholicism for the bigger and better and deal.

I asked them what they miss about being Catholic. They replied with two answers:

  1. “There are not any crosses in my new church. I know it makes some people feel uncomfortable, but I wish we had crosses.”
  2. “What will I do when I die?” They were both unclear about whether they could get anything like Last Rites at the megachurch.

What About the Eucharist?

I asked both about the Eucharist: “Don’t you miss the Eucharist?”

This question didn’t phase them one bit. “Oh we still have communion. They pass out little crackers and cups of juice. I like this better because I thought drinking from one big cup is icky. Spreads germs.”

“But in the Catholic Church,” I replied, “we believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood of Jesus?”

I may as well have said, “Don’t you know that there are Martians in my back pocket.” She was unaware that the Catholic Church taught this. No idea.

The Problem

This, my brothers and sisters, is the crux of the problem. These girls were raised as Catholics, but did not know about the Eucharist. They did not know that the Eucharist is God. They did not understand the Holy Eucharist is the center of the Catholic tradition.

So when they compare our ho-hum Catholic music and pedestrian sermons to snazzy well produced musical productions and highly polished bulleted sermons from handsome professional speakers…where are they going to go?

If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. This is the task of the New Evangelization if there is going to be one. Can we communicate the mystery of Eucharist. If we fail in that, everyone is leaving the building.

Godspeed,
Taylor

PS: I don’t mean to suggest that having the Holy Eucharist is an excuse for bad music, bad vestments, bad architecture, and bad sermons. The Eucharist is like a precious diamond. It deserves a platinum setting…not a plastic setting. We can’t say, “Well, we have the Eucharist – so you’re forced to stay and have a miserable experience every Sunday.” We can’t keep the sacraments hostage to mediocracy.

PPS: With 1 billion strong, the Catholic Church is the real megachurch!

pope visit

Pope Francis at Rio de Janeiro
3 million people



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; joelosteen; megachurch
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1 posted on 08/27/2013 11:53:37 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 08/27/2013 11:54:01 AM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Mega Church or Catholic Church?? Ugh, what a choice. Joel Osteen preaches a feel good sermon that’s not judgmental (smooth sermon for itching ears) which is good if you’re feeling a bit down but he lacks the Jesus died for us theology which is THE central part of Christianity. I choose neither.


3 posted on 08/27/2013 11:58:51 AM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: NYer

They sound like a couple of natural blondes.


4 posted on 08/27/2013 12:00:06 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: NYer

Did they mention Salvation was by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone?

That is why I left.


5 posted on 08/27/2013 12:00:28 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: NYer

Mega Churches make me gag. They look plastic, sound plastic, and aren’t much more than a weekly concert and pep talk, it seems.


6 posted on 08/27/2013 12:01:49 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: NYer
7.“In the Catholic Church, they use a lot of words that I did not understand.”

IMO that is a REALLY BIG ONE. I immediately began noticing the puzzled, quizzical looks when we adopted the New Roman Missal and began saying things like "consubstantial". The Vatican is full of people who are REALLY out of touch on this. You must speak to the people in the language that they understand. Christ did not arrive in Israel speaking Mandarin Chinese (although he could have).

Some of the other items mentioned (don't have an iPhone app) are scurrilous IMO.


7 posted on 08/27/2013 12:02:28 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: NYer

We Catholics worship GOD not the preacher!


8 posted on 08/27/2013 12:03:05 PM PDT by notaliberal (Never lose heart. The most high will strengthen and protect you....Fr. Francis Jordan)
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To: NYer

Hey NYER I know Joel Osteen he is one of those do not judge preacher very new agey I THINK SO

Maybe young ladies didn’t really good teaching out of Cathoic church so they feel spiritually hungry

They do lots of singing in those type of churches

They do reach out to people


9 posted on 08/27/2013 12:03:14 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: NYer
“3. I felt judged at the Catholic Church.”

Flip story. As a Southern Baptist, I was talking to one of my Catholic friends in Louisiana and told her this story. "My Mom knows this lady who converted from Baptist to Catholic because she didn't feel as guilty as a Catholic when she slept with someone other than her husband."

My Catholic friend retorted, "Well, if she didn't make a good Baptist, she's not going to make a good Catholic."

What could I say?...."Touche"

10 posted on 08/27/2013 12:04:04 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: NYer; Gamecock
Joel Osteen’s Lakewood Megachurch
43,500 weekly attendance

Related thread:
Joel Olsteen Joins With Catholics To Convert Confused Protestants

11 posted on 08/27/2013 12:06:55 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: NYer

Mega Church or Catholic Church?

I’ll just agree with apostle Paul that, after his departure, savage wolves DID come in and did NOT spare the flock. And since that time they have hounded simple believers with priestcraft and gimmickry and ancient ERROR.

No blood bought child of God has any need for gnostic teachers to “instruct” him in the ways of God. Indeed, he can easily spot the fakes by way of the Holy Spirit and, per the LORD JESUS, one or more other blood-bought children!


12 posted on 08/27/2013 12:07:11 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: notaliberal

“We Catholics worship GOD not the preacher!”

Implying the converse is true of the megachurch attendees?


13 posted on 08/27/2013 12:07:59 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: NYer

The only megachurch service I ever attended was essentially a rock concert followed by a motivational speech. I know I can’t judge all megachurches by that one but it definitely turned me off to the whole concept.


14 posted on 08/27/2013 12:08:14 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: VanDeKoik
Mega Churches make me gag. They look plastic, sound plastic, and aren’t much more than a weekly concert and pep talk, it seems.

They also tolerate a lot of sin and heresy in their ranks. They have to. Their "customer base" demands it, and they have a multi-million dollar budget to make.

15 posted on 08/27/2013 12:09:41 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: DannyTN

In other words we all DESERVE to be judged when we sin.


16 posted on 08/27/2013 12:09:53 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: notaliberal

Exactly. Sounds like a lot of the reasons seemingly smart people voted for Obama. The marketing is just so good. I don’t think Jesus was into marketing. More of a substance kinda guy. But, unfortunately a ton of “catholics” no nothing about their own faith. I mean, if your faith is that important to you, don’t you think you would take it upon yourself to actually learn about it before you take off and leave it. It has been around 2000 years for a reason.


17 posted on 08/27/2013 12:10:41 PM PDT by Phillyred
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To: Boogieman
“We Catholics worship GOD not the preacher!”

I recently had to set straight a Hindu friend who was utterly, completely confused on this point.


18 posted on 08/27/2013 12:11:03 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SevenofNine
They do lots of singing in those type of churches

They do reach out to people

So do cults. The Manson Family was very musical, and very "accepting."

19 posted on 08/27/2013 12:11:04 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: NYer

“Then his disciples began arguing about which of them was the greatest...”


20 posted on 08/27/2013 12:11:08 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: NYer

“MegaChurch or Catholic Church?”

A false proposition up front. As if those are the only choices?


21 posted on 08/27/2013 12:12:50 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: NYer
While there isn't anything wrong with being popular, per se, the truth is seldom popular.
22 posted on 08/27/2013 12:12:54 PM PDT by null and void (Frequent terrorist attacks OR endless government snooping and oppression? We can have both!)
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To: fwdude

Paper or plastic?

This is why I avoid shopping in San Jose. If my city won’t trust me with a plastic bag, why should I trust it with my tax dollars?


23 posted on 08/27/2013 12:14:39 PM PDT by null and void (Frequent terrorist attacks OR endless government snooping and oppression? We can have both!)
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To: NYer
"If they had believed that the Holy Eucharist is truly the Lord Jesus Christ, then they would have stayed. "

Pretty presumptive statement, IMO.

I don't think the Eucharist is the center of reasoning for Catholics leaving the church.

I think it centers more around what people perceive as the truth

24 posted on 08/27/2013 12:15:23 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: BipolarBob

Is Mr. Osteen one of those who say you will get rich if you become Christian?


25 posted on 08/27/2013 12:15:57 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer
I’d like to join Commander Riker in applauding your most excellent post:


26 posted on 08/27/2013 12:16:38 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Opinions are like orgasms: only mine count, and I couldn't care less if you have one...)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
“Then his disciples began arguing about which of them was the greatest...”
"I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
so no one can say that you were baptized in my name."
- 1 Corinthians 1:14-15

27 posted on 08/27/2013 12:17:25 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: nickcarraway

The prosperity gospel? I think he strongly infers it but not so much as Swaggart and other such types. I’m not a follower but he is on TV if you care to listen to him.


28 posted on 08/27/2013 12:21:30 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: notaliberal

Following Christ and trying to live in his image... sounds simple. In reality it is a very hard thing to do. It really is easier just to go to a cool musical production every now and then.

Many people forget the value of Apostolic succession. The catholic church is the church founded by Christ and handed to Peter. Every other christian religion is an offshoot of Catholicism.

Having taught Catechism myself I have been shocked by the watered down curriculums taught in many parishes to children. It is tragic when people are not taught the beauty of catholic tradition. Are some of the words of the new missal challenging sure...but they are beautiful in their meaning. A Tale of Two Cities is harder to read than Harry Potter but which is better literature?

Merely acknowledging the eucharist as the body and blood of Christ is not enough. Spending much time discerning the beauty of this great gift both through study and prayer is required. Only through a humble and prayerful approach can the magnitude of it’s redeeming power even be begun to be understood. The eucharist is not the only sacrament that is not understood. How many catholics understand the value of going to a priest for confession?

Catholicism is hard to put into practice and not for those without courage who only seek feel good platitudes. Reforming catholic catechism starting with parents prior to the baptism of their own children is the only answer.


29 posted on 08/27/2013 12:23:30 PM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: BipolarBob

I didn’t realize Swaggart was that. I never even heard that term until the 2000s.


30 posted on 08/27/2013 12:23:31 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: notaliberal
We Catholics worship GOD not the preacher!

Pope Benedict and Mary text describing the image text describing the image

31 posted on 08/27/2013 12:23:57 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: nickcarraway
Is Mr. Osteen one of those who say you will get rich if you become Christian?

His father sure did. He is more subtle about it.

He claims to know the Gospel (Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith Alone, in Christ Alone) but I have never heard him preach it.

32 posted on 08/27/2013 12:24:10 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

In my Church they spent weeks preparing for the new language changes and explaining the reasons for them.

If “consubstantial” is that difficult, one could seek out assistance. Or simply based on dead reckoning of its placement in the creed figure out it is a more elegant word for “one in being”.


33 posted on 08/27/2013 12:24:59 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: NYer

I have yet to meet a single first generation immigrant from Mexico is Catholic. They are evangelical, Jehovah’s Witness, or unchurched.


34 posted on 08/27/2013 12:25:25 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: bkaycee

Who was his father? I never even knew he had one.


35 posted on 08/27/2013 12:26:28 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: bkaycee

If (certain) religious leaders tell their flock that being Christian will make them rich, what happens if they don’t become rich?


36 posted on 08/27/2013 12:27:53 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: fwdude

Wow, that’s clever.

Except none of those are preachers and none of what you showed is worship.

Nice try though.


37 posted on 08/27/2013 12:31:01 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: nickcarraway

Mr. Osteen. :) cant remember his first name.

He was a second tier huckster in the name it and claim it gang.


38 posted on 08/27/2013 12:31:44 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Gamecock
Joel Osteen purchases Catholicism in time for Easter

LAKEWOOD, TX - Joel Osteen Ministries announced this week it has finalized its purchase of the entire Catholic religion which includes all assets, facilities, employees, and intellectual property. The purchase was accomplished using revenues received from corporate sponsors, member donations, and Osteen's book sales.

Osteen announced the purchase to his followers at the Lakewood Church during his weekly nationally televised service saying, "Please join me in welcoming our Catholic brothers and sisters with open arms. A purchase of this magnitude takes tremendous resources so I ask you to help us fund this wonderful acquisition by calling the 800 number at the bottom of your screen and making a generous donation."

In a manner similar to other large industry consolidations, Osteen will immediately begin converting Catholicism to the faster growing non-denominational business model. Changes include the elimination of less profitable Catholic traditions such as communion, confession, the sacraments of marriage, confirmation, and the last rites. Classic holidays with large revenue potential such as Christmas and Easter will be re-branded but not substantially revised until a complete profitability analysis can be performed.

Executives of Osteen Ministries say the Bible will be gradually replaced with Osteen's best-selling book, Your Best Life Now, which is available online and at thousands of retail book outlets worldwide.

Until further evaluation an Osteen Ministries spokesperson said all Catholic employees including Bishops, Cardinals, Priests, and Nuns will gladly be retained by Osteen Ministries and trained for jobs at Osteen's expansive donation call center in Lakewood, Texas.

Most of the Catholic churches will continue to serve as donation collection points but will be equipped with cable broadcast equipment to help increase Osteen's market share of religious television viewers.

Osteen is also reviewing options for key assets like the Vatican which may be converted to a faith-based nostalgic amusement park called CatholicLand.


39 posted on 08/27/2013 12:32:02 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.)
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To: SoothingDave
Except none of those are preachers and none of what you showed is worship.

Talk about nice try. Have you read/recited any of the popular Marian prayers recently? Absolutely abominable idolatry.

40 posted on 08/27/2013 12:32:58 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: nickcarraway

They are told they do not have enough faith or they are not giving enough to the huckster.


41 posted on 08/27/2013 12:33:23 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: fwdude

You think the Bible is idolatry?


42 posted on 08/27/2013 12:35:55 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Alex Murphy

I think Osteen is planning on keeping Catholic traditions of Bingo, Wedding annulment payments and financial indulgences.


43 posted on 08/27/2013 12:36:17 PM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: NYer

I’ve done these threads before, I think I will pass on this one.


44 posted on 08/27/2013 12:38:32 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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Five Days to September.

Please donate today.

45 posted on 08/27/2013 12:38:44 PM PDT by RedMDer (http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/)
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To: fwdude

I can see how someone who only has prayer can think prayer is synonymous with worship.

Read the Mass someday. It is true worship. The offering of the One Perfect Sacrifice to the Father.

Dulia is not latria.

If holding a parade for someone is worship then we all worshipped our soldiers after WWII.


46 posted on 08/27/2013 12:39:16 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: nickcarraway
You think the Bible is idolatry?

LOL!!! I must have missed this verse, then:

O most blessed and sweet Virgin Mary,

Mother of God, filled with all tenderness, Daughter of the most high King,
Lady of the Angels,
Mother of all the faithful,

On this day and all the days of my life,

I entrust to your merciful heart my body and my soul,
all my acts, thoughts, choices,
desires, words, deeds,
my entire life and death,

47 posted on 08/27/2013 12:40:08 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: SoothingDave

so, Catholics believe that if i pray to vishnu I’m not worshiping a false god?


48 posted on 08/27/2013 12:42:36 PM PDT by HenryArmitage (it was not meant that we should voyage far.)
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To: NYer

I know we blame the Church and sometimes rightly so but part of it is that they are not listening.

I know a couple, life-long Catholics who got taken in by a very charismatic, fly by night church and then they tried to tell us how the Catholic Church isn’t Bible based and they never heard scripture at Mass!!!!!!!!!

Where were they? I know they were there cuz I saw them! How could they not hear? How could they not see? But they didn’t. “There are none so blind....”

I am active in my church, I do a little of everything but I think the most important thing I do is pray. We need God to work in their lives, to open their hearts and their minds to His Word.

Too many people want religious entertainment. They want the easy path. They want to be told that their choices are the most important, that once saved, they are saved forever. They don’t want to do the hard work of actually following Jesus, they just want to believe and let it go at that.


49 posted on 08/27/2013 12:42:38 PM PDT by tiki
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To: HenryArmitage

Yes, that is exactly what we believe. That’s why i so clearly stated so in an earlier post.

Ok, now that that is done, if you have any questions grounded in reality come on back.


50 posted on 08/27/2013 12:48:03 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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