Posted on 08/28/2013 12:22:54 PM PDT by Sopater
According to Joel Osteen – Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, these first century apostles are wrong and outdated and he has come out boldly to infer indirectly that Apostles Paul, Peter, and John whom wrote much of the New Testament were wrong and need to be corrected and rebuked.
When asked directly if people whom are openly practicing homosexuals are accepted into the Kingdom, Joel Osteen responded with “Absolutely, anybody is.”
We all need to listen carefully to the words that this “man of God” speaks as he goes on interviews so we too can find the errors in the preaching of the first century apostles.
Joel does acknowledge that some things are “sin” but says, “I don’t address these things from the pulpit. They only come up in interviews.” When asked if openly practicing gay/homosexual people will be accepted into heaven, Joel Osteen responded, “I believe they will.”
He makes no mention of the need for repentance.
The doctrine of universalism is the belief that all people are “saved” no matter who you are or what you’ve done.
This is a new version of the “good news” that is MUCH BETTER than the message the Jesus and the Apostles preached 2,ooo years ago which was far too narrow according to the way Joel Osteen explains his “message.”
“I’m for everybody” says Joel Osteen, “I’m not into excluding people. Jesus can reveal himself to anybody.”
The idea is that since no one would be accepted if we are called to be “holy” then all have to be accepted. So goes this logic. This doctrine also believes that all roads lead to heaven so there is no one “way, truth, and life that leads to the father.”
According to Joel, “sin means to miss the mark” which, while technically correct, stands in contrast to the teachings of many writers of the Bible that teach that sin is violation of God’s Holy Laws so if by missing the mark Joel means violating God’s ways, then yes, sin is missing the mark.
According to the out of date writers of the Bible, the “wages of sin is death” for which blood is required and for which a sacrifice was presented.
It sounds a lot more harsh to say SIN is TREASON punishable by death than to say it is “missing the mark” which is a bit incomplete. Sin is also “to incur guilt, incur penalty” which according to the scripture is death.
Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
When asked about people who live in open sin, Joel smilingly said, “I’m not going to bash those people. I’m not going to be against those people. They’re good people.”
So by contrast, Apostle Jude is “bashing people” when he said:
Jude 1:14-16 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.”
Joel’s wife recently said to Piers Morgan. “It’s the people that we’re after. We’re not trying to judge their sin. We want to encourage them and love them. You’re only going to win people by reaching out to them.”
Isn’t that so awesome! They are all about the people! They want you and I be accepted without having to discuss anything like repentance or righteousness. These are “judgmental” subjects that we just don’t need.
These modern day ministry giants have gone on national television to essentially correct Apostles Peter, John, and Paul to say … they are wrong … if you listen to Joel Osteen. So many across the nation are so proud of this Pastor and his courage in confronting the church fathers!
According to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul erroneously stated to the Corinthians …
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 “Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
In saying this, according to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul is being “exclusionary” and should be rebuked and corrected. He is obviously wrong and should never have said these things to the Corinthian church.
Corinth was known for its sexual openness and promiscuity so for Paul to “condemn” all these “good people” was completely out of order and he needs to be rebuked.
When Paul wrote to the Romans he also was in complete error in stating the following in the first chapter of his letter, according to Joel Osteen.
“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
According to Joel Osteen, Paul was absolutely incorrect and to state that being a homosexual is a sin is being “judgmental” and should not be tolerated. It is just wrong according to Joel Osteen. Many people agree with Joel Osteen today and so, Apostle Paul is apparently misguided and incorrect in his letter.
Joel goes on to point out the additional errors in the words Apostle Paul wrote.
“Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Paul went on to write in the first chapter of Romans, which according to the words of Joel Osteen, he is deeply misguided and mistaken.
Apostle Paul should repent for saying such things according to Joel Osteen. A growing number of people in America agree with Joel that Apostle Paul should be rebuked for ever saying such things because Paul isn’t accepting of people like Joel Osteen is.
Equally misguided and incorrect according to Joel Osteen is Paul’s words to the Galatian church. In his writings, Apostle Paul made stunning comments that were clearly exclusionary statements concerning the Kingdom and those whom are accepted, and in so doing has made grave error according to Joel Osteen.
See if you can detect the absolutely false statements that Apostle Paul made to the Galatian church according to the stated doctrine of Joel Osteen.
Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.“
You can clearly see what has Joel Osteen so unhappy that he’s gone on national television to correct this! It is this type of rhetoric, according to Joel Osteen, that is completely false and misrepresents the God he serves.
Joel Osteen’s God loves everybody and there are no exclusions because then, according to Joel, “none of us would be saved.” So again, Apostle Paul was completely incorrect and should never have written such harsh and insensitive words to the Galatian church according to Joel.
I imagine Joel Osteen would say “shame on Apostle Paul for ever writing such hateful words!”
Now, not only is Joel out to correct the misguided Apostle Paul, but Apostle Peter was also brought into serious question for clearly being exclusionary when he wrote these words.
1 Peter 1:14-16 “As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”
According to the doctrine Joel Osteen has now shared with us all as “his message,” being clearly more evolved and enlightened than the archaic Apostle Peter, no one can be holy. We are left to conclude that Peter is misguided and is being judgmental. What a terrible yoke and condemnation Apostle Peter is trying to put on the good people he is writing to.
Additionally, Apostle Peter goes on to say things that are completely against the Lakewood Church Pastor’s God when he stated the following.
2 Peter 2:6-8 “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)”
According to Joel Osteen’s public comments, one could conclude that Apostle Peter was in complete error and deceived when he wrote such things. What a terrible condemnation. He clearly did not know the doctrine that Joel Osteen preaches or he would never have said such awful and critical things.
Joel Osteen indirectly implies (subtly) that these apostles were false and were critical and judgmental and should NOT be listened to in America today. We all need to listen instead to Joel Osteen and Oprah Winfrey.
Now Apostle John made even greater errors if the benchmark is Joel Osteen’s “message” when he stated some of the thing that he wrote which, according to Joel Osteen, is just plain and simply not true.
It takes a lot of courage for Joel to stand against these writings but he believes strongly in his “uplifting and encouraging” doctrine that does not endorse such harsh and judgmental statements as written by these ancient Apostles.
We should all pray for Joel Osteen because he needs our prayers if he’s going to continue to champion the cause of those oppressed and condemned by the writings and statements of Apostles like Paul, Peter and John.
Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
You see, according to Joel Osteen in a recent interview, “God doesn’t see any sin as worse than another” and all are going to heaven. Apparently in Joel Osteen’s bible, he has redacted the unpardonable sin. So if you’re a follower of Joel Osteen’s then this statement by Apostle John must seem just plain wrong.
Apostle John doesn’t know what he’s talking about and we need to listen to the wisdom of Joel Osteen. Apostle John clearly was in error and should be rebuked for suggesting that people who tell lies are going to have their part in the lake of fire.
What was Apostle John thinking writing such judgmental things???
That’s a terrible thing to say and no one, certainly not Apostle John, should be allowed to say such things. As Joel says, “there’s enough condemnation in the world” and we don’t need anymore.
Additionally, in his letter, Apostle John says things like …
1 John 3:8-10 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”
Now according to Joel Osteen and the thousands that agree with his “message,” this entire passage should be removed from the pages of the bible and no one should be saying such things. In fact, Joel goes on to share that it is this exact kind of preaching that will hinder “church growth.”
Apostles Paul, Peter, and John listen up. Joel Osteen rebukes you all.
Now listen, Joel Osteen and his ministry in Houston are all about people. He is standing up for your rights! He is taking a REALLY BIG RISK because … if he’s wrong, and Apostle Paul is right … then he stands to be cursed! So he needs your support in prayer NOW!
Galatians 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Instead, you all need to listen to his message of universal acceptance and lawless living without any condemnation so we can all “lift our spirits” and be “encouraging and loving” to all people no matter what lifestyle or choices they make. After all, according to Joel, God loves us all and everyone is going to heaven so lighten up!
There is no exclusive path to the Kingdom. According to Joel Osteen, we need to hear this message because it’s the right message and anyone that says that there is an exclusive path to God is wrong.
Joel would know, look at the size of his church! He is clearly telling you the truth more than anyone in history.
John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Exactly how much error is too much?
The quotes are taken right from what Joel himself has spoken. He positions himself on his own without being told how to answer. On the one hand he wants to appease his Christian followers by saying “the bible says” but on the other he clearly fellowships with darkness and facilitates those whom deny the power thereof.
2 Timothy 3:1-7 “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.”
I think you people are crazy. Do yall not listen to his message? Yall have no right to judge who is going to heaven and who isnt
you have no right to determine who and who isnt going to heaven
He does not teach the Bible. That is all I need to,know. This prosperity thing is for the birds.
What good is that if he does not teach the Bible? Most of the so called prosperity speakers have large crowds because they want to feel good. I read on another site that he was speaking in the NW but you had to buy a ticket to attend. He said $111 a ticket. When we have speakers, there are no tickets but a love offering is taken to help with expenses when they go to much smaller churches. I will take my Bible teaching minister over this guy anytime. I know he teaches from the Bible because he does it verse by verse.
“If there is such a thing as eternal damnation”. How can he doubt that?
He left out George and Ringo.
Yes, and why did he include Peter Noone?
“Joel is now owned by satan... shun him... turn your back on him... wipe the dust of his existence from your feet... **********but pray for his soul.*************
I have made no such claim to his fate. I do not have that power or right. I do read the Bible and I do know what the Bible tells us to do when men teach against the scripture. CHRIST himself spoke to this. Can you read that last 5 words that I posted? Did I not ask that you pray for his salvation? It is not up to me what happens to this man... it is up to him and GOD.
LLS
Every one is NOT a child of God. We are all HIs creation but only those that have accepted His gift of salvation and Jesus as their lord and savior, are His children. We are to judge those that claim to be a christain, but not those that are not saved.No person can condemn anyone to hell,any more than any person can save your soul. Even God does not condemn you to hell.You send your self there, by rejecting His Son Jesus christ.You have free will.Yes Joel needs our prayers. Because God says in His Word “that He will not be mocked”.I have a problem with the way Joel preaches, because he is misleading people,and he is not teaching the TRUTH. For his love of money, he does’nt want to “offend anyone”.It is so sad that so many people are are hell bound, because they would rather listen to this kind of teaching, rather that the TRUTH.The Bible says “that there will be no excuess”. God does love us all,and it is not His will that any should perrish, but He is also a “just” god.
So, what are they, then? Only God can create all this (especially us), thus each of us is "a child of God", as Osteen put it. One cannot be anything else.
Of course they do, Southerngal70. Just ask them. They're God's anointed messengers and avengers. You don't believe they are? Why, they're proud of their special connection to God that none of you peons can possibly have.
I dont think I know how to “shun someone, turn my back on him, wipe the dust of his existence from my feet” and then “pray for his soul”.
I can pray for his soul, but the other things you suggest are the result of twisting scripture. You cant love someone, and treat them like that. That’s not even “tough love”... that’s disdain, contempt. Attempting to pass such treatment off as “spiritual” is Pharisaical.
And yet with few exceptions, I find more Godly love and truth In Joel’s messages than I see here in the comments section. Its a message thats far from perfect. (soul Prosperity, yes; carnal prosperity, no). but is our God so limited that he can’t use Joel to lead someone into the kingdom?
Do you think some unbeliever is going to see the Gospel of grace in this thread, given all this name calling, arrogance, pride, and slander? The Gospel is GOOD NEWS, and I dont see much here.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
2 John 1:11
For whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.
2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
Shake the Dust from Your Feet - Luke 9:3-5
He said to the apostles, "When you travel, don't take a walking stick. Also, don't carry a bag, food, or money. Take for your trip only the clothes you are wearing. When you go into a house, stay there until it is time to leave. If the people in the town will not welcome you, go outside the town and shake their dust off of your feet. This will be a warning to them."
I did not say to hate this man... I didn't say to hold him in contempt... I repeated scripture that are GOD's instructions and I asked for all to pray for his soul. It seems that you twist GOD's words to mean things other than what they actually say. I believe GOD knew exactly what HE wanted to move men to write and I believe that the Holy Spirit descended upon these men and touched their souls while they scribed. I pray for you too brother. I hope that you will do the same for me. LLS
First of all, I want to emphatically state that I do not agree with Joel Osteen or his doctrine on many things, but I believe the title of this article is misleading and that his comments are misrepresented.
The style in which this article is written seems to imply that Osteen made most of the comments listed, however it is mostly the interpretation of the author and their view, which is being conveyed.
The author used several quotes by Osteen, which seem to be misrepresented.
Firs the author quoted Osteen as saying, “God loves everybody and there are no exclusions because then, according to Joel, “none of us would be saved.” Using this quote the author equivocated this to universalism, which is far from accurate. Personally, I am thankful that my sins (Rom 3:23) did not prevent me from receiving the free gift of God (Eph. 2:8,9). The author is missing the point that Osteen is referring to an attitude that Jesus himself exhibited in his ministry. In John 3, Jesus explains redemption and God’s love for ALL, furthermore Osteen adopts an attitude that is similar to Jesus in John 8:1-11 in his statement, “I’m not going to bash those people. I’m not going to be against those people. They’re good people. I’m for everybody, I’m not into excluding people. Jesus can reveal himself to anybody.”
Finally the author spends a lot of time quoting scripture from Paul, Peter and other early church leaders, which were all written to other believers. When it comes to rebuking or condemning one’s sin, these directions are reserved for those who have been redeemed and know the TRUTH. That is the intent of these early church authors not to condemn the lost but rather instruct the believer (Luke 17:3, 2 Tim 2:2). Can an openly and practicing homosexual be redeemed, the answer is yes, will they grow and be productive while still holding on to their sin, No. We are unable to serve two masters and if god is calling believers to righteousness/holiness then we must abandon our sin and follow Him (Matt 6:24).
When considering rebuking one who is lost or adopting an attitude of condemnation consider the instruction of Paul in his letter to the Corinthian church (1 Cor. 1:18, 1 Cor. 5:12-13)
Jesus himself said, He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10) and that He didn’t come to condemn the world, but that they should be save through Him (John3:17).
Why should we as followers of Christ adopt an attitude that reflects self-righteousness and a pharisaical heart toward the lost? Jesus condemned this attitude in Matthew 23 as well as painted a very poignant analogy of this attitude in Luke 18:9-14. Tax collectors were reviled much like the homosexual community today and rather than Jesus condemning them He illustrated the real devastation is found in the hypocrisy of the religious. While Jesus does not condone sin (John 8:11) but His mission was to bring Hope, Love and Light into the darkness. May we all remember that we are sinners and one’s sin does not trump another’s and just because we have had our debt forgiven we should never stand in place to condemn the lost (Matthew 18:21-35).
preacher12345
Since Sep 25, 2013
"They're coming in through the windows!"
Thanks for the ping, Game. I get tired of dealing with supposed Christians who support this clown.
He also didn’t infer this information, he implied it.
Joel Osteen song parody? It would definitely qualify as a DUFU edition.
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