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Incredible skeletal remains of 'Catholic saints' dug up, still dripping in gems and jewellery
Daily Mail ^ | 6 September 2013 | Daily Mail Reporter

Posted on 09/06/2013 7:15:37 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

A relic hunter dubbed 'Indiana Bones' has lifted the lid on a macabre collection of 400-year-old jewel-encrusted skeletons unearthed in churches across Europe.

Art historian Paul Koudounaris hunted down and photographed dozens of gruesome skeletons in some of the world's most secretive religious establishments.

Incredibly, some of the skeletons, said to be the remains of early Christian martyrs, were even found hidden away in lock-ups and containers.

They are now the subject of a new book, which sheds light on the forgotten ornamented relics for the first time.

Thousands of skeletons were dug up from Roman catacombs in the 16th century and installed in towns around Germany, Austria and Switzerland on the orders of the Vatican.

They were sent to Catholic churches and religious houses to replace the relics destroyed in the wake of the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s.

Mistaken for the remains of early Christian martyrs, the morbid relics, known as the Catacomb Saints, became shrines reminding of the spiritual treasures of the afterlife.

They were also symbols of the Catholic Church's newly found strength in previously Protestant areas.

Each one was painstakingly decorated in thousands of pounds worth of gold, silver and gems by devoted followers before being displayed in church niches.

Some took up to five years to decorate.

They were renamed as saints, although none of them qualified for the title under the strict rules of the Catholic church which require saints to have been canonised.

But by the 19th century they had become morbid reminders of an embarrassing past and many were stripped of their honours and discarded.

Mr Koudounaris' new book, Heavenly Bodies: Cult Treasures and Spectacular Saints from the Catacombs, is the first time the skeletons have appeared in print.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Worship
KEYWORDS: artifacts; catholic; ghoul; graverobbing; photography; religion
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To: BlueDragon

I notice not one of you has chided this “cranky” person on his opinion that the SC must be destroyed. Once someone does it, I’ll change my mind. But I’m not counting on it.


351 posted on 09/07/2013 8:51:58 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: RegulatorCountry

Many modern Catholic churches are horrible, indeed. This came about around Vatican 2 which did a lot to destroy the beauty of the Mass and its many rituals. As well as the hymns and awful architecture! Still, there’s nothing worse than a 1960s Methodist church. They invariably look more like a gymnasium than a church.


352 posted on 09/07/2013 8:56:32 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: boatbums; miss marmelstein

“Is it only “religious bigotry” when it’s criticism of the Roman Catholic Church? Are all the non-Catholic Christians here supposed to just bear it when Catholics go at them and should they not be entitled to defend their beliefs - even when it disproves something Roman Catholicism holds?”

Good point. There are plenty of Catholics around here who love to tell us that we “stole” the Bible from them, or say that we are heretics, etc. When is the last time miss m accused THEM of bigotry?

I’m guessing the answer is never, since she seems to hold similar sentiments herself.


353 posted on 09/07/2013 8:57:47 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: RedMonqey

“As every individual cannot claim to be prefect, neither can any Christian sect can claim to be “Holier than Thou”I know this will make both sides of this argument howl but it is true.”

You’re absolutely right. However, I think there is only one Christian sect that consistently and continually claims to be “holiest”. I’ve never seen any Protestant, or Orthodox group, for that matter, make the self-aggrandizing claims that Catholics make here just about every day.


354 posted on 09/07/2013 9:00:32 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: miss marmelstein

Ha! Saying that idolatry should be wiped out is hatred?

Then I guess you’d better burn your Bibles, because they are full of exactly that kind of talk from the Big Guy himself!


355 posted on 09/07/2013 9:02:09 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: miss marmelstein

Remind me again of the Bible verse where God commanded us to go out and make pretty things for Him?


356 posted on 09/07/2013 9:04:52 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: miss marmelstein

you have been a freeper for how long now?

357 posted on 09/07/2013 9:11:10 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

That’s easy enough to check out.


358 posted on 09/07/2013 9:13:16 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein
I beg to differ. The many Catholic churches in the Modernist or brutalist style exceed any Protestant church in lack of aesthetic value. And then, there's that thing that looks like a hippopotamus’ head, what's up with that?
359 posted on 09/07/2013 9:13:28 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Boogieman

Something beautiful for God. I think Mother Theresa said that. Frankly, God doesn’t have to write everything down for me to know he loves beauty. Truth and beauty, in fact!

What I find amusing is that the more you guys write about “idolatry” the more you sound like that good Catholic, Savonarola.


360 posted on 09/07/2013 9:16:29 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Click on my profile page for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.

361 posted on 09/07/2013 9:21:54 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Boogieman

This is actually the first thread I’ve been on that pits Prods against RCs. I only came here because I was interested in the German relics. I found the photos intriguing. I had no idea I had fallen into a swill of anti-Catholic bigotry. But like Michael Corleone, the more I tried to get out, the more I got pulled in. I will avoid these posts in the future now that I know some of the names involved here. So, I’m only replying to people on this particular thread. I have no idea what went on in other places.


362 posted on 09/07/2013 9:22:40 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Alex Murphy

Somehow this does not ring true. How does someone gain access to dozens of remains of the dead that are surely situated to prevent access by just anyone? Call me skeptical.


363 posted on 09/07/2013 9:24:19 AM PDT by rcofdayton (.)
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To: Religion Moderator

Why are you chastising me when the hatred towards Catholics here is overwhelming? I’ve had three private messages from Catholics who refuse to post on this thread because they fear what will be said. You need to read all of the remarks in their entirety. Hilariously, I’ve been damned to hell on 10 different posts but you didn’t feel the need to rebuke any of those people.


364 posted on 09/07/2013 9:25:34 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

“Frankly, God doesn’t have to write everything down for me to know he loves beauty. Truth and beauty, in fact!”

Alright, but what if He has already written down the opposite sentiment? We can quote many verses about God not being pleased by the works of our hands, not finding such things acceptable, etc. That’s why the Israelites were only allowed to use unhewn stones for altars, because if human hands cut a single chip from them, God found them corrupt and unfit for use.

When that is the case, you NEED a written statement to annul the previous ones, or you are just making up your own rules.


365 posted on 09/07/2013 9:42:33 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: miss marmelstein

Maybe because the “hatred” and “damning” is in your imagination, and not in the content of the posts?


366 posted on 09/07/2013 9:44:30 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: miss marmelstein
I have read every post on this thread and pulled the ones which were "making it personal" meaning either reading minds, attributing motives or making the thread "about" another Freeper, personally. If I missed such a post, let me know by Freepmail.

In "open" Religion Forum debate, the poster who gets his feelings hurt - accuses others of hatred, bigotry, Nazism or Islamicism - or uses abuse reports and/or messages to the moderators to shut down the debate - that poster is the disruptor, not the ones who are accustomed to having their own beliefs, religious authorities, etc. abhorred or ridiculed. A poster must have thick skin to defend his beliefs or challenge another's beliefs in "open" religious debate.

The contention cuts in all directions, e.g. there are Catholic posters whose posts drip with contempt for Protestantism just like there are Protestant posters whose posts drip with contempt for Catholicism.

Posters who cannot tolerate withering criticism of their deities, religious authorities and beliefs should stay on the caucus threads for their own religions to discuss such things among their own co-religionists.

You are welcome to do so. Find a comparable article on the same subject and put "Catholic caucus" in the title. As long as neither the article nor the reply posts mention the beliefs of non-Catholics, the thread will remain closed to anyone who does not share your beliefs.

367 posted on 09/07/2013 9:46:46 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Boogieman

Eventually -- it will all be burned up in a fervent heat, right?

There won't be any baubles left for any of us to gaze upon. Nor (I imagine) would we need or desire too either, if we be with Him, and have Him for "light" while in presence of the Holiness which is His very "nature" (using "nature" here for lack of a better term).

But in the meantime, most now living, pretty much seem to need this planet we are presently living on. So we get distracted and gaze at baubles, sometimes..?

...in that meantime, before this "fervent heat" it could be hoped one of those wandering black holes doesn't get to close? Though one of those might be seen from an earth perspective to roll up the heavens as a scroll, if that passage need be understood as to relating to visible "universe", and not have something otherwise more fundamental even than that, which 'science' has yet to gain some grasp of.

Though as to this "meantime" (while we on this earth, await?) I confess to being more concerned with comets disturbing Jupiter and Saturn's titans enough, along with other asteroids, to have put (some of) them on a collision course with this planet, or having done so in times past --- having us be cruising for a bruising, but scarcely knowing it. Astronomers do occasionally catch sight of some good sized objects passing quite "close" to us.

The velocity we are traveling in orbit is tremendous. The velocity of our entire "orbit" as it were, as that is moving along with the Sun itself, is a bit more difficult to calculate? Add potential movement of the mass of the Milky Way galaxy itself in relation to other galaxies (or even inter-galactic "dusts") and we are boogy-ing right along.

A few space rocks could ruin an entire day...

368 posted on 09/07/2013 9:50:32 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: Religion Moderator

I just looked back over all the posts and see that you’ve removed so many nasty comments that it looks like we’re a group of stutterers, lol. So, I guess it’s not just me who has a problem with making it personal. Personally, since I’ve been on FR since 2001, I don’t remember when it didn’t get personal. But this is my last post here - I’ll let everyone get on with their business.


369 posted on 09/07/2013 9:53:20 AM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

That was the point.

370 posted on 09/07/2013 9:57:58 AM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: miss marmelstein

Something so openly idolatrous, and pagan as the sistine chapel is an affront to Yehova and all who love him.

Your problems with the mods have nothing to do with the rest of us.


371 posted on 09/07/2013 9:58:22 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: miss marmelstein; metmom; CynicalBear
Looks to me like the RCC has forfeited ANY right to discern what constitutes “good art”. Tell me, are you funeral hearses low-riders?
372 posted on 09/07/2013 11:37:39 AM PDT by smvoice (Better Buck up, Buttercup. The wailing and gnashing are for an eternity..)
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To: Alex Murphy
That headline was very accurate about "Dripping in Gems".
Very impressive burial. Nice teeth too, must've been young.
373 posted on 09/07/2013 11:59:28 AM PDT by MaxMax (If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention)
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To: miss marmelstein; editor-surveyor
Sorry, when one of you strange people posts that the Sistine Chapel must be destroyed, I’ll compare you guys to the Taliban and it won’t be an overstatement.

Fine, then we can compare all Catholics to Teddy Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, and Chavez.

I don't have a clue what denomination e-s goes to. But I do know that the above mentioned people are/were vocally Catholics and Kennedy and Chavez died in the bosom of the Catholic church and were given Catholic funerals by said church.

They're your buddies.

374 posted on 09/07/2013 12:47:08 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: smvoice
I just wonder if the tables were turned, and "protestants" gathered skeletons, decorated them with jewels and posted them around the podium in their church, just what WOULD the RCCs think about the whole tradition then?...

You and I both know what the reaction would be.

375 posted on 09/07/2013 12:48:05 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: RedMonqey
As every individual cannot claim to be prefect, neither can any Christian sect can claim to be “Holier than Thou”I know this will make both sides of this argument howl but it is true.

Oh, you do, do you?

Well, you know what? You're right.

Nobody or no organization is perfect, even when the Catholic church claims it is.

376 posted on 09/07/2013 12:52:14 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: boatbums
Is it only “religious bigotry” when it’s criticism of the Roman Catholic Church?

Pretty much.....

Are all the non-Catholic Christians here supposed to just bear it when Catholics go at them and should they not be entitled to defend their beliefs - even when it disproves something Roman Catholicism holds?

You're getting the idea now.....

The rules of the Religion Forum are fair - and that means if you want to join in an open thread, you better be prepared to bear it.

That's not FAAIAIIIIRRRR......

377 posted on 09/07/2013 12:55:36 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: miss marmelstein

378 posted on 09/07/2013 12:57:57 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

Last comment: I am the original Whore of Babylon dedicated to Satan. Now, my husband and I (who is also a minion of Satan) are going to watch a great lecture series on Renaissance art. We are at the second lecture and the first was filled with gory paintings of dead and crucified bodies! Can’t wait for what’s up next. Bye!


379 posted on 09/07/2013 1:12:44 PM PDT by miss marmelstein ( Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

Whatever floats your boat.......


380 posted on 09/07/2013 1:17:43 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: miss marmelstein

Nobody forced you.


381 posted on 09/07/2013 1:26:43 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Boogieman
Now, I ask: if Roman Catholicism is the One True Religion from God, then why do they need fraudulent miracles to prove their case?

Excellent question! Like Abraham told the rich man in Hades, who had begged him to send a risen Lazarus back to his family to warn them of hell, "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." (Luke 16:31)

382 posted on 09/07/2013 3:00:05 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

You cannot convince an idolator of their idolatry. It is impossible. I tried for 3.5 months. All I heard was this dead guy’s body, that dead woman with miracle juice flowing out of her body, people “floating in air” and every sort of nonsense imaginable.


383 posted on 09/07/2013 3:44:20 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: boatbums; Boogieman; BlueDragon

1Cor 1, 22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles.


384 posted on 09/07/2013 3:45:01 PM PDT by Gamecock (Many Atheists take the stand: "There is no God AND I hate Him.")
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To: metmom

Why don’t you READ my complete statements.

I have stated in this post you ‘cut and pasted” from(yes, I too, am an “individual’ that’s not prefect)
And not just “cherry pick” the ones you thinks puffs up yourself.

And the Catholic Church isn’t the only sect that thinks it’s got an exclusive connection to God.


385 posted on 09/07/2013 3:58:06 PM PDT by RedMonqey ("Gun-free zones" equal "Target-rich environment.")
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To: Boogieman
.However, I think there is only one Christian sect that consistently and continually claims to be “holiest”.

Then you need to start attending other denominations and read up on their history.... There's a reason why the Christian faith has been so schismatic(or heresy if you will) for over the last 2000+ years....
386 posted on 09/07/2013 4:06:23 PM PDT by RedMonqey ("Gun-free zones" equal "Target-rich environment.")
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To: Gamecock

Truer than so many realize.

That’s it in a nutshell.


387 posted on 09/07/2013 4:12:53 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Gamecock

And there you have it.

Period.


388 posted on 09/07/2013 4:18:28 PM PDT by bonfire
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To: BlueDragon; Boogieman
Eventually -- it will all be burned up in a fervent heat, right?

I ponder upon those verses from II Peter 3:10-12

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.

Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be in leading lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set ablaze and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire?

That every worldly thing we place value upon and strive to possess will one day be vaporized SHOULD make us realize where our TRUE treasure should be. And, when we truly get it that nothing tangible on this earth (art, money, jewels, mansions, cars, etc.) will escape this end, WHAT kind of people will we be and how will this knowledge effect the way we live our lives before Almighty God??? When I first read that passage, it hit me right between the eyes and gave me an entirely new outlook on what really matters in this life.

Sure, we like to look at pretty things - but I have YET to view a painting, no matter how talented the artist, that compares to the real thing. I've seen some amazing sunsets in my life but none I ever photographed came close to the reality. Will not the creator of it all not have much better to replace it with? Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. (I Cor. 2:9)

389 posted on 09/07/2013 5:13:05 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: F15Eagle
You cannot convince an idolator of their idolatry. It is impossible. I tried for 3.5 months. All I heard was this dead guy’s body, that dead woman with miracle juice flowing out of her body, people “floating in air” and every sort of nonsense imaginable.

I know, creepy stuff. Creeped me out as a little kid in Catholic school, STILL creeps me out. If you think about it, EVERY religion has some kind of "miracle" which proves to their adherents it is the TRUE religion. Some are more outrageous than others, but there is something that appeals to the ones who follow it. It answers what they were looking for in some way. And in every religion in the world - EXCEPT Christianity - man must do something to bind his way back to God. Those who diligently seek Him, who search for Him with all their heart, WILL find the true way - and it IS only ONE way - Jesus Christ. It isn't what we must do FOR God, but what He has done for us.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

390 posted on 09/07/2013 5:33:36 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; BlueDragon; Boogieman

It reminds me of the story I heard about a rich man who wanted to take it with him when he died.

He bargained with God that when he died, he could take a suitcase full of gold.

So the night comes, the guy dies, and on his way out, grabs the suitcase.

He gets to the pearly gates, lugging his suitcase but St. Peter stops him and tells him he can’t bring it in. Nobody is allowed to. The guy states that it’s all been taken care of. He’s got permission from God Himself.

Peter says he’s going to have to check on that but asks if he minds if he takes a peek first. The guy says *No* and opens the suitcase.

Peter takes a look and asks the guy, *Why in the world would anyone want to bring pavement?*


391 posted on 09/07/2013 5:39:25 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
haha. too funny.
392 posted on 09/07/2013 5:46:15 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: BlueDragon

I thought it put it in perspective rather nicely.


393 posted on 09/07/2013 5:46:47 PM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: F15Eagle

“Miracle juice”???? Nasty!


394 posted on 09/07/2013 5:56:19 PM PDT by JLLH
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To: boatbums

Yes, but we can be grateful (and should be grateful) for what we do have too, while we remain in the bodily forms that we are. Ok --- but you know all of that and more, and really don't need me to tell you much, as near as I can determine...

Carry on. Be encouraged.

395 posted on 09/07/2013 5:57:12 PM PDT by BlueDragon
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To: metmom; miss marmelstein

You can be sure that the mess at Vatican City will be one of the first targets Yeshua strikes when he has finished with Jerusalem and NATO.


396 posted on 09/07/2013 6:50:51 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: metmom

Good story! I hadn’t heard it before. Thanks.


397 posted on 09/07/2013 9:03:49 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: BlueDragon
Thank you. Yes, I do praise God every day for the blessings He has given me. In a small way, I feel like I have learned how Paul felt when he said:

    Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. (Philippians 4:11-13)

THAT my friend is the key! Be content in whatever state we are in, because we KNOW we have the Lord, who will never leave us or forsake us.

398 posted on 09/07/2013 9:11:23 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: smvoice
A great example of meekness, being humble, and taking a vow of poverty if I’ve ever seen one. Yes, this is exactly what Christ wants to see when He raises us up to be with Him. A person laden with jewels and gold. So laden that it’s gonna take a crane to lift his bones. Carry on , RCC. Carry on.

what an asinine statement....do you really think that God will care whether or not we were rich or poor?.....that we have some gold trinkets or not?....get real, the RCC is the church that Jesus HIMSELF founded....He will be far more interested in those that followed His call the those who followed some man made religion because they couldn't make it as a Catholic.

399 posted on 09/07/2013 9:19:11 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: terycarl; smvoice
He will be far more interested in those that followed His call the those who followed some man made religion because they couldn't make it as a Catholic.

Somehow I missed the *decorating dead bodies with ridiculous amounts of wealth and making relics of them* part.

Matthew 25:34-40 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Feeding the poor, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and those in prison are the mark of His followers.

Decorating dead bodies with ridiculous amounts of gold and jewels and making shrines of them is the mark of followers of man-made religions.

400 posted on 09/08/2013 4:41:05 AM PDT by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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