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Rescuing Souls
http://proclaimingthegospel.org/equip/articles/54-rescuing-souls ^ | unknown | Mike Gendron

Posted on 10/05/2013 10:09:16 PM PDT by jodyel

Rescuing Precious Souls from the Bondage of Religion

We can be wrong about a lot of things in this life and still survive, but if we are wrong about the only way to obtain forgiveness from God, we will pay for that fatal mistake throughout all eternity. Our Creator provides only one way to redeem man from sin and He has revealed it in a divinely inspired message to mankind. However, it didn't take long for God's complete and perfect Gospel message to be corrupted by religious leaders. These men, who say they speak for God, have distorted and perverted this good news of God's mercy and grace. Their unstated goal has been to control people by keeping them in legalistic bondage to their authority. The Lord Jesus revealed the only way of escape from this bondage. He said: "If you abide in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32).

Establish the Supreme Authority for Truth

Reaching those who are being held captive by religious indoctrination must always begin by establishing the Bible as the supreme authority for knowing God's Gospel. Christ and His Word must rule over man's religious traditions because God has exalted His Word above all things (Psalm 138:2). The word of God is infallible and has no equal (Isa. 55:10). The Bible is the most authoritative, influential and powerful book ever written. It is the standard for discerning truth from error(1 John 4:6). It is sufficient to function as the sole, infallible rule of faith (2 Tim. 3:14-16). The Bible does not refer us to any other rule of faith because everything we must know,understand and believe to be reconciled to God is found in Scripture (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

Whenever we are confronted by two or more opinions, we must always ask, "But what does the Scripture say?" (Gal. 4:30).

What About The Traditions of Men?

Roman Catholics reject the supreme authority of Scripture by elevating their tradition to the same level of authority. They defend their position by quoting St. Paul who wrote: "Stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us" (2 Thes. 2:15). But we must make a distinction between traditions which had already been taught by the apostles in the first century and the traditions established by men over the last 1900 years (2 Cor. 11:2 ; 2 Thes. 3:6).

Clearly there are certain apostolic traditions recorded in Scripture that Christians must embrace, but not all traditions are biblical. Paul encouraged us to make this distinction. He wrote: "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ" (Col. 2:8). Paul is warning us that we can become ensnared by the traditions of men when they do not conform to Christ and His word. Tradition must always be subservient to Scripture because God's word is divinely inspired while tradition is not.

What About "Infallible" Men?

Roman Catholics also reject the supreme authority of Scripture by elevating its "infallible" bishops to be equal in authority. In practice, the bishops actually sit above Scripture by declaring no one else can give an authentic interpretation of the Word of God (Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 85). Yet the Apostle Paul commended the Bereans (who were not bishops) for interpreting the Scriptures to verify the truthfulness of his teaching. "Now the Bereans ... received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true" (Acts 17:11). It is quite clear that the apostle, who penned over half the New Testament, encouraged his listeners to submit to the supreme authority of the Hebrew Scriptures. The veracity of every man's message must be tested with the same Scriptural authority.

Getting the Gospel Right

Once the supreme authority of Scripture has been communicated to Catholics who are enslaved to another authority, the Gospel of God can be heralded. It is wise to present God's Gospel in contrast to Rome's plan of salvation so Catholics can discern the difference. The distinction between the two gospels can best be described as the difference between divine accomplishment and human achievement. The true Gospel describes what God has done through Jesus Christ to save sinners, while the gospel of Rome describes what man must do for God. Paul defines the Gospel according to Scripture alone (1 Cor. 15:1-4). The glorious Gospel of grace is what one perfect man did 2000 years ago to reconcile sinful man to God. It has nothing to do with what any imperfect man has done since, or is doing now. This eliminates all the requirements Roman Catholics have added to the finished work of Jesus Christ. It also eliminates Catholic priests making daily sin offerings on their altars.

Catholics Are Totally Dependent Upon An Illegitimate Priesthood

One of the most controlling elements of the Roman Catholic religion is its indoctrination concerning the priesthood. Each Catholic is taught that their salvation is utterly dependent upon the ministry of their priests. According to the unbiblical teachings of Rome, it is the Catholic priest who baptizes infants for their justification and spiritual birth, the priest who hears confession and demands penance as the satisfaction for sin, the priest who dispenses Jesus in the Eucharist, the priest who imparts the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Confirmation, the priest who gives Last Rites, and the priest who offers the sacrifice of the Mass for souls suffering in purgatory. What a fatal deception!

There is no longer a need for priests offering sacrifices for sin because by one offering Jesus Christ has perfected for all time those who are sanctified (Heb. 10:14). At the very moment our Lord Jesus gave up His Spirit on Calvary's cross, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom (Mat. 27:51). The veil that separated sinful man from the Holy of Holies was ripped open, and now, anyone washed by the blood of Christ can come boldly into the presence of God. When Jesus, our High Priest, offered Himself once for all sin for all time, he made the sacrificial priesthood obsolete. Every believer in Jesus Christ has been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (Heb.10:10).

The illegitimacy and obsolescence of the Roman Catholic priesthood is also expressly noted by the sovereign and exclusive work of the triune God in saving sinners. It is God the Father who chooses, calls and draws the lost to His Son (John 6:44; Jas. 2:5). The Holy Spirit convicts them of their sin and the coming judgment (John 16:8-11). Jesus Christ is proclaimed through His Word as the only way of salvation (John 14:6). God gives life to those dead in sin and grants the sinner repentance and faith (Rom. 4:17; Eph. 2:8-9; 2 Tim. 2:25). Jesus exchanges His righteousness for the sins of the believer (2 Cor. 5:21). The Holy Spirit seals, indwells and empowers the justified believer (Eph. 1:13-14, Rom. 8). The Father adopts, secures and glorifies His children (John 1:12; Rom. 8:30). Clearly, God alone is deserving of all glory! (Rom. 11:36). He alone is worthy to be praised!

Peter expressed the bondage that enslaves religious leaders who exchange the truth of God for the fatal errors of men. He wrote: "Speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved (2 Pet. 2:18-20).

How Can We Rescue These Precious Souls?

Paul provides the answer! "The Lord's bond servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:24-26). We must take note of the correct way to approach those who are being deceived by the clever, scheming, and subtle lies of the devil. We must lovingly confront them with gentleness, patience and humility and avoid being quarrelsome or argumentative. As we correct them, we must use the Scriptures and avoid giving our own opinions, experiences or philosophy. Saving faith comes from hearing the Word (Rom. 10:17).

Liberty from the bondage of sin and deception is found only in Christ. The Father sent Him to preach the Gospel to the poor, to proclaim release to the captives and to set free those who are downtrodden (Luke 4:18). Jesus also came to give sight to the blind because a veil of spiritual blindness covers every man's heart. However there is one condition that must be met: Paul declares: "whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away" (2 Cor. 3:16). This means turning from fallible men and their traditions and turning to Christ and His infallible word!


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: gendron; salvation
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To: Arthur McGowan
That's the Catholic position regarding the place of Scripture as a source of revelation.

That's the Protestant position regarding anything having to do with the House of YHWH. If you say something to a Protestant about the things of YHWH, it better be defensible in the Word, and not by way of a verse here and a verse there, twisted to fit the thought...

But that still leaves plenty of room for Protestant tradition (subservient to the Bible). Just go to a library or bookstore and look at the formidable works written by Protestant hands (using 'protestant' in the broad sense). But one way or another, your use of ONLY is not valid. That is solo-scriptura.

101 posted on 10/06/2013 8:05:13 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: narses
When you sin, what do you do?

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “

Well, I have received the Holy Spirit...So do I forgive myself???

I suspect that every time you come across a post of ours that contains scripture (which is very often), you and the rest of your team mates skip right over the scriptures posted...

I'm going to post some scripture that if you read it, you likely won't get it...But if you do get it, you won't believe it...But you would do well to pay attention to it...

1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There's more to this story but every word in these scriptures is true...

102 posted on 10/06/2013 9:16:20 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Arthur McGowan
For a long time after Acts was written, it was not universally held to be part of the inspired Scripture. It was a final decision by the Catholic Church in Rome that definitively placed Acts in the canon of Scripture. Anyone who holds with certainty that Acts is inspired is depending on a decision by the Church in Rome.

Now that's a goofy statement...I wasn't aware of the Catholic position on Acts and I believed Acts was inspired the moment I opened the book in the bible...

It's apparent to me that you don't spend any time in the bible or you would know that God gave us the bible, not some pagan religion...

103 posted on 10/06/2013 9:22:27 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: narses

Right....got anything else?


104 posted on 10/07/2013 12:59:30 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

“...This eliminates all the requirements Roman Catholics have added ...”

This is the author’s opinion only and not backed up by God’s Word.

Paul to the Colossians in Colossians 2 Chapter Verse 24

Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church.


105 posted on 10/07/2013 4:48:51 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

This is generally the view of one not filled with the Spirit. We don’t give our opinion, we state truth as imparted to us by His Spirit.


106 posted on 10/07/2013 5:33:25 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

“..This is generally the view of one not filled with the Spirit...”

It is a direct scripture quote. Therefore this is the truth imparted by His Spirit.


107 posted on 10/07/2013 5:54:17 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

One can read Scripture without correctly discerning its meaning.


108 posted on 10/07/2013 6:14:45 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: stonehouse01; jodyel
WE have everything we need in Christ.

Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

When Jesus died on the cross, He said, "It is finished.".

Suffering does not purify from sin. It has other work to do in the believer.

109 posted on 10/07/2013 6:19:03 AM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: metmom

“Suffering does not purify us from sin...”

Correct.


110 posted on 10/07/2013 6:26:49 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: jodyel

Who determines which meaning is correctly discerned?


111 posted on 10/07/2013 6:34:41 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

The Holy Spirit.


112 posted on 10/07/2013 6:37:54 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

1 Epistle of St. John the Apostle Chapter 4

Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit: but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The interpretation that works are still being accepted as St. Paul tells us in Colossians is not the same as the interpretation that works are no longer accepted. (Not necessary, accepted) Discernment applies - one man’s opinion of what the Holy Spirit means might be different than another man’s.


113 posted on 10/07/2013 7:23:05 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

Yes, that is what Catholics always say.

Narses and his YOPIOS comes to mind.

But believers are not left to interpret Scripture with frail human understanding. We have been born again and filled with the Spirit who rightly discerns its meaning for us.

Anyone can quote Scripture but not everyone, outside of the Spirit, can understand it.


114 posted on 10/07/2013 7:38:12 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

The author of this article has decided he is filled with the correct Spirit. T is his own opinion that he is filled with the correct spirit. It is his own determination that he can understand scripture and the rest of us can’t.

He could very well be wrong about his own understanding and has no definitive proof, other than his own feeling that he is born again and filled with the spirit. Catholics are born again and filled with the spirit also.

Subjective relativism at its finest.


115 posted on 10/07/2013 7:49:30 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: Arthur McGowan; HiTech RedNeck
My point was that it seems improbable that, if God willed that ONLY writings were to be the source of our belief, that those writings themselves would make no mention of that fact.

Arthur, i would posit that the Lord basically did teach that only writings were the supreme transcendent standard for faith and obedience (which does not exclude reason, the church or other helps), as they are abundantly evidenced to be that standard.

And and it was upon Scriptural substantiation in text and in power that He established His claims, as did the apostles and early church. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

This is in contrast to the alternative in which the stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of promises of God's presence and perpetuation, and who had historical descent are the supreme indisputable authority (all of which RCs argue makes Rome to be so).

116 posted on 10/07/2013 8:41:14 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: stonehouse01

Indeed not, stonehouse01, but one not born again of the Spirit will always think this way.

You must be born again...not just think you are born again. Once you are, there is no doubt and you have eternal security and many other things that Catholicism does not teach.

No opinion, just Spirit-filled truth.

God bless you,
jodyel


117 posted on 10/07/2013 8:42:50 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: caww

Sounds to me like you don’t believe in the “temple of the living God.” Well then, how about the Koran? That’s a book too.


118 posted on 10/07/2013 9:15:59 AM PDT by Bogie
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To: metmom

Making a statement like “Bible is a book by men” is rather telling isn’t it? Unless one gets who actually those words in the Bible come from there isn’t much discussion worth having with that person.


119 posted on 10/07/2013 9:55:36 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Arthur McGowan
>>For a long time after Acts was written, it was not universally held to be part of the inspired Scripture.<<

Says who? Peter seems to believe that all the writings of the apostles were considered scripture.

2 Peter 3:15b. As also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given him, [16] as in all his letters, speaking concerning these matters, in which some things are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also THE OTHER SCRIPTURES. [17] You then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being let away with the delusion of the lawless.

120 posted on 10/07/2013 10:05:07 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: stonehouse01; jodyel
>>one man’s opinion of what the Holy Spirit means might be different than another man’s.<<

In this case how about we just let Jesus tell us.

“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29

121 posted on 10/07/2013 11:03:07 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear; Bogie

<....”Making a statement like “Bible is a book by men” is rather telling isn’t it? Unless one gets who actually those words in the Bible come from there isn’t much discussion worth having with that person”....>

Oh absolutely telling....and response (118) to my post reflects how off track the discussion goes... and took just one post to reveal that.

The enemy of mens souls has always struck the reliability and author of the scriptures right from the beginning. Nothings changed in those tactics......how often do we see that same attack again and again! Sometimes wearing a different mask but the tactic is the same.


122 posted on 10/07/2013 11:04:21 AM PDT by caww
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To: Bogie

...not taking the bait....

Either you know or you don’t know the author of the scriptures. Even satan believes God is who HE says HE is.

The Koran will always be seen as a counterfeit....and a very poor one at that. Like anything and everything else God does and says satan likes to deceive with a copy of his making.


123 posted on 10/07/2013 11:13:02 AM PDT by caww
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To: CynicalBear

You are better at finding the Scripture to go with what I mean, CB.

Thanks as always.


124 posted on 10/07/2013 11:14:43 AM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

Catholics are born again in baptism and are perfectly capable of inerrant Spirit-filled interpretations of scripture. It is an (false) opinion that only non-catholics can get it right.

Acts: 2:38

Peter said to them: Do penance: (a work, by the way) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Catholics are baptized and born again according to God’s Word as set forth in the above verse.

“...no doubt you have eternal security...”

This is a particularly dangerous “new” (since the 1500’s) interpretation of God’s Word, an example of false prophecy - The Apocalypse clearly states Chapter 20 Verse 12

And the dead were judged by those things that were written in the books, according to their works.

There is no doubt that we are judged according to our works, none - it is perfectly clear in scripture.


125 posted on 10/07/2013 12:36:06 PM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

Water baptism or Holy Spirit baptism?

Yowza, stonehouse01, let’s say we don’t agree on a thing. :)


126 posted on 10/07/2013 1:47:01 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: jodyel

John 3:5, unless a man be born again of water AND the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

So both, of course, because God’s Word says it.


127 posted on 10/07/2013 1:59:33 PM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

But how do you know you are born again? Do you only think you have received the Spirit?

I ask because a born again believer could not stay in Catholicism. True Christianity and Catholicism are two different animals. One is of the Spirit and the other is of the flesh.

http://www.reachingcatholics.org/catholic_saved.html

No one who is truly born again of the Spirit will ever go thru the motions, rituals, and sacraments of the Catholic church.

I know I won’t convince you of that but am called to testify to it anyway.


128 posted on 10/07/2013 2:08:02 PM PDT by jodyel
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To: CynicalBear
This is a good "image"!


129 posted on 10/07/2013 2:20:15 PM PDT by caww
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To: Elsie

130 posted on 10/07/2013 3:04:59 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: caww

The Devil quotes the Koran too!


131 posted on 10/07/2013 6:14:58 PM PDT by Bogie
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
How come you never talk about Mormonism? Isn't that your religion?

Let me join the boys above and crank up some MORE diabolical laughter!!

132 posted on 10/07/2013 6:32:16 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

I checked errorlog.txt and found nothing listed.

It appears the error reporting software has bugs in it.


133 posted on 10/07/2013 6:34:27 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Bogie

pfft....


134 posted on 10/07/2013 7:14:41 PM PDT by caww
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To: stonehouse01; jodyel
Acts: 2:38 Peter said to them: Do penance: (a work, by the way) and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

A gross misinterpretation if there ever was one.

The Greek word that the Catholic church translated *penance* is the word for *repent*, which is not at all the same thing.

http://biblehub.com/text/acts/2-38.htm

True, penance is a work, but it is not what Peter was telling others to do. Works don't save.

135 posted on 10/07/2013 7:30:44 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: stonehouse01; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; CynicalBear; ...
Catholics are born again in baptism and are perfectly capable of inerrant Spirit-filled interpretations of scripture. It is an (false) opinion that only non-catholics can get it right.

The very thing that Catholics continually mock and deride non-Catholics for claiming.

Do as I say, not as I do, eh?

Breath-taking hypocrisy duly noted.

136 posted on 10/07/2013 7:36:16 PM PDT by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of faith....)
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To: metmom
<...”Catholics are born again in baptism”....>

I see that tune is still being played....and unfortunately many do believe that being Baptized saves them....but what one might 'believe' and what 'the truth' of the matter is can be very different then one desires it to be.

Heck, I remember a 65 yr. old Methodist woman who believed her whole life that her infant Baptism was sufficient...only to attend a Baptismal class and determine God wanted her to Baptized as an adult through submersion.

Her testimony was riveting as she explained how God moved her heart on this matter. Stunningly.. a year later she went on to become a missionary with Wycliffe.

I suppose for a Catholic to change their opinion it would require God move their heart and mind likewise and they be receptive to His will on the matter. Hard for that to happen when they are stuck in so many traditions and rituals otherwise.

137 posted on 10/07/2013 7:55:45 PM PDT by caww
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To: stonehouse01
20:12 The dead before this throne are evidently the unsaved of all ages who now stand resurrected (v. 5; Dan. 12:2). They come from all classes and groups of humanity. The “books” contain a record of their deeds (cf. Deut. 32:34; Ps. 56:8; Isa. 65:6; Dan. 7:10; Mal. 3:16; Matt. 12:37). The “book of life” contains the names of God’s elect (3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27; Isa. 4:3; Ps. 69:28; Dan. 12:1; Luke 10:20; Phil. 4:3). God will condemn those raised to face this judgment because of their works including failure to believe in Jesus Christ (John 6:29). Since He will evaluate their deeds, there seems to be a difference in degrees of punishment as there will be differences in rewards for believers (cf. Matt. 11:20–24).

Constable, T. (2003). Tom Constable’s Expository Notes on the Bible. Galaxie Software.

138 posted on 10/07/2013 7:58:45 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (I grew up in America. I now live in the United States..)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

139 posted on 10/07/2013 7:59:21 PM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: jodyel; alphadog; infool7; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; ...

jodyel wrote:

I ask because a born again believer could not stay in Catholicism.

What odd cult teaches that, jodyel??


140 posted on 10/07/2013 8:01:08 PM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: CynicalBear

What? Where does Peter say he’s referring to the Acts of the Apostles? Or to any specific book of the New Testament? And obviously Peter CAN’T be referring to those books of the NT that hadn’t been written yet!

BTW: Luke, not Paul, wrote the Acts of the Apostles.


141 posted on 10/07/2013 8:38:20 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: CynicalBear
>>I've wondered for some time how it's possible, as some people seem to think, to use "religion" as sort of a Bad Word while taking these scriptures seriously.<<

Maybe because the Greek word used in verse 26 is different than the Greek word used in verse 27? The first Greek word used in verse 26 does mean religion but the second Greek word used in verse 26 and the Greek word used in verse 27 means worship more so than “religion”. If you translate those words correctly you get a little better picture of what is being said.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion worship is vain.

James 1:27 Pure religion worship and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I checked: the word used for "religious" in v. 26 and the word used for "religion" in vv. 26 and 27 are etymologically related. (If you use Strong's numbers, the associated two are respectively G2357 and G2356.)

At least one lexicon explicitly mentions an emphasis on ceremonies or on the externals of worship concerning G2356 ("religion") but not explicitly G2357 ("religious"), but at least to me, the context in these verses doesn't seem to justify a recent usage of "religion" as a universal negative.

I just don't see the justification for that usage, whether in the changes in the wider language (we no longer ordinarily use "prevent" in its sense of "come before") or in alleged progress in our theology.

I even admit that seeing that sort of thing--for instance, "religion" treated as a sort of opposite of "faith" or "relationship [with God]"--raises a red flag for me concerning the credibility of what I'm reading or hearing.

Now, some people are indeed unclear on the idea that "having a religion" isn't the same thing as "having faith" or "having a relationship with God," but adopting this reaction is overkill--especially if you happen to belong to what by any reasonable definition is indeed "religious." (Included in "reasonable" is the suggestion that your definition isn't both nonstandard and tendentious.)

The original poster has posted about "rescuing souls" from "the bondage of religion" in--where else?--the "religion forum." ("In the Religion forum, on a thread titled Rescuing Souls, CynicalBear wrote:") I'm not being too literalistic about the name of this forum, but neither is the name meaningless or misleading.

142 posted on 10/07/2013 9:43:36 PM PDT by Lonely Bull
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To: Arthur McGowan
And obviously Peter CAN’T be referring to those books of the NT that hadn’t been written yet!

Of course he can...Peter knows who he was hanging around with...Peter knows the other close disciples and Apostles...Peter acknowledged Paul's writing as scripture...So Peter recognized there was scripture...

Not only did Peter NOT say to Paul, 'why are writing this stuff down, Jesus didn't tell us to write anything down, Peter recognized it as scripture, holy writing...

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Paul then was a holy man of God...

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus' method of preserving his words was written scripture...

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me

You want to know what Jesus teaches, 'Search the scriptures'...

Peter knew Paul was a holy man chosen of God...Peter recognized that Paul wrote holy scripture...Peter would have accepted everything Paul had written to the churches as Holy Scripture, even his future writing, as would all of the apostles...

The other apostles were in the same boat...They were holy men chosen of God...Whatever they wrote to the churches, Peter would have recognized as written Holy Scripture...

A person will not spend much time in the scriptures without learning and understanding that right off the bat...To question the authenticity of scripture is proof positive that a person has no bond with the Holy Spirit...

The question may come up; 'what about the other books written by apostles, ie, the Gospel of Thomas, etc., etc...

They may or may not be authentic...God determined what he wanted us to have so it makes no difference whether they are authentic or not...We have what God gave us...

143 posted on 10/07/2013 9:45:43 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

When Jesus referred to “the Scriptures,” he was talking about the Jewish Scriptures. Not one word of the New Testament had been written.

Nothing I have said questions ANY Scriptures, so it’s beside the point to point out all the Scriptures that recommend “searching the Scriptures,” etc.

But Peter could not possibly have been referring to things that had not yet been written.

If you believe that the New Testament contains 27 books, and that they are all inspired, then you are giving your assent to a decision that was made by the Pope and bishops assembled in Rome, a couple of hundred years after the completion of those writings.


144 posted on 10/07/2013 10:48:14 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan (If you're FOR sticking scissors in a female's neck and sucking out her brains, you are PRO-WOMAN!)
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To: Elsie

I wouldn’t want to defend it either.


145 posted on 10/08/2013 2:46:51 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: metmom

“gross misinterpretation...”

Absolutely not. The Douay Rehiems bible is the closest translation to the original Latin and Greek that is out there. Later “bibles” contain modern error. The Douay Rheims is base 100% on the original Latin and Greek vulgate translated by St. Jerome himself.


146 posted on 10/08/2013 3:37:28 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: metmom

“..Catholica mock and deride...”

No one is mocking or deriding anything. The Catholic Church requires baptism because the bible requires it based on the verse from Acts that I quoted as well as other verses.

No mocking or hypocrisy is involved. Attacking Catholicism without actually understanding its teachings isn’t OK.


147 posted on 10/08/2013 3:41:27 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: stonehouse01

meant Catholics, not Catholica typo


148 posted on 10/08/2013 3:43:14 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: caww

“many do believe that being Baptized saves them...”

It’s in the bible that being saved requires baptism -

1 St. Peter Chapter 4 Verse 21

Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also:

There are other verses that make it clear baptism is necessary for salvation.

Anecdotal evidence is rather weak evidence of a position.

“...what one might ‘believe’ and what the ‘truth’ of the matter is can be very different than one desires it to be...”

So true - and without the bible to back up a position, the truth is merely an opinion. God’s Word:

Acts 22:16

Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.


149 posted on 10/08/2013 4:09:00 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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To: metmom

“Works don’t save”

Christ saves, works are required to cooperate with the saving grace of Christ. Faith without works is dead, so if there are no works, a person’s faith is dead.


150 posted on 10/08/2013 4:11:03 AM PDT by stonehouse01 (Equal rights for unborn women)
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