Posted on 10/07/2013 5:26:01 AM PDT by jodyel
Then John 3:18 will have to be explained more fully - as well as Romans 2:11-13.
Yes.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Not sure what your argument is.
You said, ... i disagree with the premise that man is damned from birth due to Adam’s sin...
John 3:18 says:
I maintain that 'condemned already' IS the state of man due to Adam's sin.
Romans 5:12 KJV
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Yeah, Catholics... this means MARY as well!
Irrevocable once born again is how I see it.
What thinks you?
Many Evangelicals use the phrase "Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus?"
I suggest everyone does, it's just that for some it is a good relationship, and for others it will be very unpleasant.
And that final damnation is always said to be based on what the person themselves did, not their forefathers. Thus it would be inconsistent with God's jurisprudence to send infants to Hell due to what Adam did .
One of the most repeated teachings in Scripture is,
"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deuteronomy 24:16; cf. 2Ki 14:5,6; 2Ch 25:4; Jer 31:29,30; Eze 18:20)
"Put to death" refers to actual punishment for sin, not the general effects of the actions of others, good or bad, which all enter into.
And,
the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
As for for the condemnation of Jn. 3:18, "have not believed" indicates moral culpability, as seen in vs 19-21 ("doeth evil," "neither cometh,") that of man's negative choice in response to light (even conscience) because their works were evil.
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:19-21)
Certainly infants do wrong things: if they could they would pop you one for taking away their toy, for they are disposed to disobey moral commands, but as in giving, (2Cor. 8:12) judgment is "according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not," and thus "unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48)
If infants have no moral cognizance to be able to make moral choices, and eternal judgment is based upon what one personally does, and thus the children are not to be sentenced based upon what their fathers did, then it hardly follows that infants must be damned due to the sin of Adam.
The premise that they carry guilt, even if not personal, is what is behind required infant baptism and speculation about Limbo, and the inability for Rome to officially teach all infants enter Heaven (even if none go to Hell).
Calvinists are divided on this, some holding God elects them all and others saying some go to Hell.
As for Rm. 5:12:
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
by Adam sin did enter the world, and thus all die "through the offence of one many be dead," (v. 15) and thus "many were made sinners" as they acted out that sinful nature - even though "sin is not imputed when there is no law."
In other words, i see that "the judgment was by one to condemnation" due to having a dead depraved nature that will be personally culpable for sin and eternal judgment, while in this life all, suffer the general effects of the judgment.
The corollary is that "by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous." (Romans 5:19)
However, "death" affects all, even infants and nature which are not culpable, while eternal damnation is based on what one personally has done, and eternal life also requires a faith response, enabled by God's grace.
Likewise.
What thinks you?
Well; the BOOK says...
Well; there seems to be ONE controlling document: the Book of LIFE.
If your name IS in it; then you're good to go.
If not; I hope you like the smell of brimstone.
Notice that there ARE verses indicating that your name CAN BE REMOVED FROM IT.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
Well, I believe in once save always saved...so will have to go in search of something to uphold that.
http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-security.html
http://carm.org/christianity/miscellaneous-topics/eternal-security
https://bible.org/seriespage/assurance-eternal-security
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints
Free Grace doctrine
The Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist doctrine has been espoused by Charles Stanley, Norman Geisler, Zane C. Hodges, Bill Bright, and others. This view, like the traditional Calvinist view, emphasizes that people are saved purely by an act of divine grace that does not depend at all on the deeds of the individual, and for that reason, advocates insist that nothing the person can do can affect his or her salvation.
The Free Grace doctrine views the person’s character and life after receiving the gift of salvation as independent from the gift itself, which is the main point of differentiation from the traditional Calvinist view, or, in other words, it asserts that justification (that is, being declared righteous before God on account of Christ) does not necessarily result in sanctification (that is, a progressively more righteous life). Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta’s megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, “Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation.”[6] For example, Stanley writes:
Look at that verse [John 3:18] and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual “believe in” Him.
— Charles Stanley[6] (p. 67).
In a chapter entitled “For Those Who Stop Believing”, he says, “The Bible clearly teaches that God’s love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74).” A little later, Stanley also writes: “You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord” (p. 80).
The doctrine sees the work of salvation as wholly monergistic, which is to say that God alone performs it and man has no part in the process beyond receiving it, and therefore, proponents argue that man cannot undo what they believe God has done. By comparison, in traditional Calvinism, people, who are otherwise unable to follow God, are enabled by regeneration to cooperate with him, and so the Reformed tradition sees itself as mediating between the total monergism of the non-traditional Calvinist view and the synergism of the Wesleyan, Arminian, and Roman Catholic views in which even unregenerate man can choose to cooperate with God in salvation.
The traditional Calvinist doctrine teaches that a person is secure in salvation because he or she was predestined by God, whereas in the Free Grace or non-traditional Calvinist views, a person is secure because at some point in time he or she has believed the Gospel message (Dave Hunt, What Love is This, p. 481).
Interesting that these kinds of things do not trouble me like they do some. I’ve no doubt all about my eternal security. To me this explains why, at the age of 9, I was saved when I professed true belief in Jesus but wasn’t discipled in my faith and fell into the world...until the age of 32 when I was drawn back. If I had died in between the ages of 9 and 32, I would still have been saved and gone to be with the Lord. Once saved, always saved....no doubt about it.
I also do not get all worked up about sin in my life. I will sin because I am still in a fallen state...I accept that. And when I do, I confess it to the Lord and ask His forgiveness and He grants it. I do not carry guilt over anything nor do I think again on the sins I have been forgiven for. I have perfect peace in the Lord. This does not, however, mean that the Lord keeps me or protects me from the consequences of my sin. I still have consequences to deal with. But I am forgiven and I am still saved.
Perhaps I am the odd person out but after the way that I have seen Him work in my life, seen the way He protects me and keeps me even during and after any sin, how could I think any differently? It is His job to keep me in the faith, His job to see that I am safe and secure now that I have believed on Him and accepted Him as my Savior. And I do truly believe with all my heart...just as a small child does.
Perhaps this is also why I do not get into nor really care about all the isms or all the theological study and whatnot. I am quite content to believe in Christ, let Him do the job of keeping me just as He said He will, and be obedient to His voice. And to be forgiven and deal with the consequences of my sin when I do fall. Just as a father picks up their child over and over again when they fall, so does our Father do the same when we fall. He does not kick us out of the house.
So that’s my story and I am sticking to it! :)
I am sure. Don’t know how a true believer can be anything but.
Again, there is no doubt.
Perhaps those who doubt interpret these verses incorrectly?
Not sure, but I am saved and sure.
Yet those verses show that the possibility exists.
I will do some research and see if I change my mind...but I doubt I will.
Somehow I think anyone losing it must never have been saved in the first place. The ones you hear were gung-ho in the faith in the beginning but then gradually fell away and ended up atheists or worse. :)
I think the true belief was never there to start with. Difference between professing and real.
Of course if the post-trib rapture ends up being true, it’s possible a lot of us will fail. lol
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.