Skip to comments.Meet "Kosher Frank" (Pope says Church cannot engage in proselytism)
Posted on 10/07/2013 5:36:12 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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The Catholic Church is the New Israel; Outside of it, there is no salvation.
Do you think Jesus and his apostles made no attempt to convert the Jews?
I’m a man, man. (Not a lady.) And I’ll protest more:
I am tired of pussy-footing around gentiles. Who abrogates the word of G-d?! What’s up with that? So you have an ‘Old’ Testament... (not that it applies to you other than these seven commandments: http://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/62221/jewish/Universal-Morality.htm)
But for the “you Jews better believe....” ilk, let me give you a bit of Jewish “you better believe.” Jews believe gentiles who don’t follow the seven Noahide laws will simply not exist after the Messiah comes. Cool ey? We care so little that you won’t even be damned-—just not existent at all. Want more? If you do follow them or want to, you’ll be chasing after Jews holding on to their ‘tzitzis’ (garment worn over or under the shirt with four ‘tassels’ at each corner) begging to be taught. See? We wear them for a reason.
I feign excitement and I try for humor. (can you tell?)
NOW.... who is an annuity guru....studying for my FL insurance exam (on a much lighter note, besides it’s necessity for eventual death.)
You are right, I had it backwards.
Thanks for the correction.
What do you think about the traditional Good Friday prayer for the Jews?
“But for the you Jews better believe.... ilk, let me give you a bit of Jewish you better believe. Jews believe gentiles who dont follow the seven Noahide laws will simply not exist after the Messiah comes. Cool ey?”
Who cares what you believe? I’ll stick with the scripture:
“Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
Good luck with your practical life lessons from your self-interpreted, thrice-translated (from the original) bit o’ scripture.
“Good luck with your practical life lessons from your self-interpreted, thrice-translated (from the original) bit o scripture.”
Good luck with your indifferent religion waiting for another Messiah who’s only overdue by about 2,000 years. Guess he’s indifferent too.
Indifferent to those who don’t have a tradition stemming from G-d and Moses. But you do, you do...
The Noahide nonsense has no basis in the scripture. Conversion in Biblical terms in the times before Christ never consisted of merely believing in a God, and following 7 laws. All of the pagan gods were condemned, and those who worship them with them. If anyone is to be saved, they therefore must put away idolatry and worship the true God. Why then would they not convert and take on the law of God too, if they have embraced the true God? And this embrace consisted of converting to the true church of God, not just in dry belief, but in active practice, its sacraments and signs, outside of which there is no salvation.
“And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.”
Remember me, O Lord, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation; that I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance (Ps. 106:4, 5)
Outside of “His nation,” there is nothing.
Happy to be part of His Nation.
Noahide is in the portion of Noah (the story of Noah in Genesis.) Jews just read it this past Sabbath-—as they have for the past 3,326 years.
It’s funny, a gentile has no other objective commandment from G-d but for these 7, and he, unbeknownst to him, probably observes at least 5 or 6 of them anyway by virtue of being part of a civil society (pre-1960 anyway.) So be a puny person of the Book....the Book of Genesis at least.
And who is the seed to whom the promise is made? Paul in Galatians says it is Christ. Galatians 3:19.
The Old Covenant cannot work because man is not able to keep his part of the bargain. The promises are fulfilled only in Christ under the New Covenant so only if you are in Christ are you a recipient.
I believe this. However, I do not believe this includes all Jews.
“Its funny, a gentile has no other objective commandment from G-d but for these 7, and he,
I thought I was pretty clear that there was no “objective commandment from God” to Gentiles to follow that consist of them existing outside of his Church, whether in Old or New Testament times.
I don’t care if that’s what some random Rabbi told you. They have to. They’ve not had a temple in 2000 years, nor any word from God nor anything else. They also say all sorts of stupid stuff that should be ignored. For example,
From the Zohar, Chapter 6, Portion Noach If Adam had not sinned, he would not have begotten any offspring.
Come and behold: if Adam had brought generations with him from the Garden of Eden, they would have lived for generations. And the light of the moon, WHICH REFERS TO THE LIGHT OF MALCHUT, would have never been darkened. And all would have lived forever; and not even the angels above could have stood before them and borne their light, brilliance and wisdom. As it is written: In the image of Elohim He created him (Beresheet 1:27). But because he was the cause of the sin, he had to leave the Garden of Eden and bear children outside. So his generations did not last BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT FIT.
Rabbi Chizkiyah then asked: How could they have begotten offspring there IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN? Had the Evil Inclination not been drawn down on him and he sinned, he would have dwelled alone in the world and would have not begotten any offspring! The same applies to Yisrael; had they not sinned by the golden calf and drawn upon themselves the Evil Inclination AFTER ACCEPTING THE TORAH, they also would have never borne any offspring, and no new generations would have come into the world. The main point is that the power of mating derives mainly from the Evil Inclination. So without the Evil Inclination there can be no offspring.
He said to him: Had Adam not sinned, he would not have borne offspring from the side of the Evil Inclination, but he would have borne them from the side of the Holy Spirit. But because he produced offspring only from the side of the Evil Inclination, all the offspring of mankind are born from the side of the Evil Inclination. They have no permanent existence therefore, because the Other Side has been mixed with them.
But if Adam had not sinned and had not been driven out of the Garden of Eden, he would have begotten offspring from the side of the Spirit of the holy of holies. And they would have been as the supreme angels, and lived generations upon generations as angels do above. THIS MEANS THAT THERE ARE TWO KINDS OF MATING: ONE IS THE SPIRITUAL MATING OF THE ANGELS; THE SECOND IS THE MATING OF YESOD FOR THE SOULS. THAT NEED FOR THE EVIL INCLINATION RELATES ONLY TO THE MATING OF YESOD AND NOT TO THE SPIRITUAL MATING THAT COMES FROM THE SIDE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. But because he sinned and begot children outside the Garden of Eden and he did not merit to beget them in the Garden of Eden, therefore they did not survive even only to take root in this world until Noah came and went into the ark. And from the ark all descending generations of mankind emerged and spread to all four corners of the earth.
Id rather stick with the plain words of the scripture. Heres the Gospel summarized:
Isa 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (2) For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. (4) Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. (5) But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (7) He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. (8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. (9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. (10) Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. (11) He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. (12) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
I was ready to be done but you’re a fine foil. From your extensive posts I see the mania of your poor-translation, zero experience, and lack of Jewish upbringing to understand what you read.
So, when I said ‘trump.’ For argument’s sake... We define authenticity (having heard it from G-d Himself.) We define the tradition and interpretation, and we define that the Torah has seven laws incumbent upon all puny non-Jewish humans, even you. (unless you’re Jewish...then it is many, many more laws.)
So it’s like a fun childish argument— I say/you say. But I was first.
“I’d rather stick with....” Of course you would....it’s easier to go with what one feels/believe/would-rather-do. So now go ask a priest/pasture/your teacher what HE thinks, and show me the unbroken chain to the source. Can’t? Really? Now go ask JC what his rabbi taught him about that psalm, because there were 1000 years of expounding upon it before he even came along. To each his own. Be a good citizen....
“I believe this. However, I do not believe this includes all Jews.”
Even this, however, is a horrible error, though born from good intentions. But that doesn’t make it good, since it proposes, essentially, salvation by works without faith in Christ. These people are “virtuous,” and therefore they receive grace as a reward for this virtue.
Rom_4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But the error does not end there, because it proposes that this grace, or, rather, the Holy Spirit working on the hearts of men, still does not bring them to Christ. Yet no one can be saved by grace “without conscious knowledge,” since the scripture is quite clear that no one stays aloof from Jesus Christ who has been given to Him by the Father.
Joh_6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
“But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.”
Notice that belief is equated with coming, therefore, all those given by the Son to the Father do believe. And anyone who does not believe is justly condemned, no matter how “virtuous” they seem to be. Neither is ignorance an excuse for their unbelief.
As the scripture says, all men are guilty before God, regardless of how much light they have received (Rom 3:19). As all men have received, to a certain extent, the law of God imprinted on their hearts, as well as the light of nature revealing the existence of God, therefore they are summarily rendered without excuse, (Rom 1:20, 2:14) and as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law (Rom 2:12). And again, for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God(Rom 3:9-11).If any man is in the world who never heard the Gospel, it was by the infallible power of God, and not by random chance, that he was left so abandoned. And, therefore, it was one of those whom God chose not to have mercy on, in accordance with His almighty sovereignty (Rom 9:18-21). Salvation is through Jesus Christ only, and whoever does not believe in Him is damned already (John 14:16, 3:18).
“I was ready to be done but youre a fine foil. “
Obviously you’ve done a lot to confirm my original thesis about you. You say you “don’t care,” but you’re more obsessed with the matter than I am.
As for your posts, they possess many arrogant bluffs, but no substance. So I’ll leave it at that.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.