Skip to comments.Do Atheists Exist? A new “godless” church makes you wonder.
Posted on 12/28/2013 10:32:49 AM PST by SeekAndFind
For people who like church except for the parts about God, a British couple have bodied forth a new denomination that cheerfully excludes him, raising the volume on the question What is atheism? several decibels overnight. The Sunday Assembly, a godless congregation founded in East London last January by standup comedians Sanderson Jones and Pippa Evans, now boasts affiliates in Brighton, Bristol, Oxford, Canberra, Melbourne, New York, and Portland, Ore. On September 21, it announced a global missionary tour: This past fall, interested individuals in 22 cities across the Anglosphere held Sunday Assembly meet-ups. Look for permanent congregations to be established in some of those locations. Look for more to follow if the momentum continues.
Church has got so many awesome things going for it (which weve shamelessly nicked), Jones and Evans confess in a short piece that appeared in the New York Times to mark the launch of their venture. Stuart Balkham, an earnest convert, told the Guardian that at a London meeting he attended the Assembly was unashamedly copying a familiar Church of England format, which he thought was great.
Half ironically, the founders allow that the Assembly is a church, dedicated to benevolent acts and the search for transcendence. Though they draw the line at religion, insisting that it and atheism are mutually exclusive, the openness with which they borrow ecclesial atmospherics and nomenclature suggests that they see their atheist outfit as not entirely secular either. You might call it a third way, an alternative to religion and secularity both, much as the Church of England was historically a via media between Catholicism and Protestantism.
Speaking the language of the many who identify as spiritual but not religious, the Assembly draws on an increasingly widespread understanding of religion as something like what the letter of the law was for Saint Paul The letter kills, but the spirit gives life (2 Corinthians 3:6). If religion remains the inevitable word for a certain moral and philosophical seriousness, however, atheism is, or should be, counted as religious after all. Among the latest to advance that thesis is Ronald Dworkin, whose Religion without God was published posthumously in September. His argument is solid at least insofar as its not original; his readers may be quicker to grasp it than he anticipated. Citing Torcasco v. Watkins (1961), Dworkin quoted Hugo Black, who in a clarifying footnote to that Supreme Court decision had commented that among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others, a list to which the casual observer could be forgiven for adding several mainline Protestant denominations whose vanishing theism quotients have haunted the landscape of organized religion in America for half a century or more. And so the Sunday Assembly, its rejection of the label religion notwithstanding, joins a distinguished parade of institutions demonstrating that religious practice persists as an anthropological fact even where belief in God is muted or absent.
We live in a post-secular age, having run up against the limitations of procedural liberalism, which, while regulating the market on which God and the Devil compete for souls, remains scrupulously disinterested in the outcome. The German philosopher Jürgen Habermas, an atheist, created a stir twelve years ago when he began to argue that the secular state has an interest in the distinctive contributions that Judaism and Christianity make to the political order. The Italian philosopher Marcello Pera, also an atheist, goes further, proposing a Christian civil religion to replenish the Judeo-Christian matrix from which the West derives the moral values on which liberal democracy depends. The values uprooted from their native religion are like cut flowers, good for a time but not sustainable. The Sunday Assembly is hardly the first attempt to keep them going a while longer.
In embracing altruism, the Assembly touches on moral theology, as do Habermas and Pera, but unlike them it does so from a position it has staked out on the near outskirts of metaphysics, which lends the godless church much of its warmth. The third part of the Assemblys motto, Live better, help often, wonder more, reflects a value attractive to souls seeking relief from the cool, or chill, as they experience it, of the secular climate in which they live. Our modern culture is restless at the barriers of the human sphere, Charles Taylor writes in A Secular Age. The sense that there is something more presses in.
Wonder more: No one disputes that atheism is compatible with wonder at the physical universe and how it works. Wonder at how it came to be just so, however, soon leads to wonder at how it came to be at all, a question that atheists typically sidestep. The pleasure of contemplating it is forbidden fruit to which the Sunday Assembly approaches nearer than a good atheist ought.
Philosophically if not historically, the theism of Judaism and Christianity, as well as of Islam and major religious currents outside the Western tradition, begins with the observation that the mystery of being is irreducibly mysterious, absolutely immune to attempts at demystifying it. The articulation of thought about what that mystery is Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is, in Wittgensteins succinct rendition of the matter has been so honed by succeeding generations of thinkers descended from the union of Greek philosophy and Jewish, Christian, and Islamic theology that its now difficult for anyone, whether theist or atheist, to improve on their exact formulations. So the atheist seeking to communicate an accurate answer to the question Why is there not nothing? will find himself borrowing theologically inflected terminology. Inescapably, he affirms the most fundamental of theological precepts. He agrees with it implicitly. He asserts that he doesnt. His disagreement is first of all with himself.
A dramatic declaration of atheism is usually an assertion of disbelief in a god no one else believes in either. Judging the shadowy masculine presence at the center of the Hebrew Bible to be a tyrannical father figure and a lie Richard Dawkins calls him the most unpleasant character in all fiction atheists who cross over into militant antitheism make quite the show of manfully defying the Lords authority to command them. They plant their flag in the ground. There they stand, they can do no other.
They lose their footing when they recoil as they do, reflexively, from classical theism as well. They dont trust it. If its related to Him, theyre not interested; they wont be seduced. They plug their ears to keep from hearing too distinctly the siren song of sweet reason, which they dodge, rather than confront. Either they see plainly or they intuit that God in his aspect as God of the philosophers is ground on which reason offers no apparent means of escape or resistance. We might as well try to refute the multiplication tables. They are what they are.
I Am That I Am is the conventional translation of the enigmatic Hebrew expression by which God in the burning bush identifies himself to Moses (Exodus 3:14). In the Greek of the Septuagint, I am is egō eimi. Jesus scandalizes his critics when, shifting to the present tense in a context in which you would expect the past tense, he answers them, Before Abraham ever was, I am egō eimi (John 8:58). In first-century Jerusalem, that statement is either blasphemous or a theophany.
Greek philosophy influenced this turn toward equating God with Being itself, as Hellenistic culture spread across the eastern Mediterranean, and the influence was reciprocal: Classical theism is the cumulative achievement of generations of theologians reading scripture in the light of Plato and Aristotle, but also vice versa. From the New Testament we can estimate the extent to which Jews by the time of Christ had come to understand that Yahweh was not a god not, at any rate, in the sense in which their ancestors had spoken of strange gods, household gods, or the gods of other nations. The discernment of God as what Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century would term ipsum esse subsistens the Ground of Being, in the parlance of Christian mysticism and theology developed organically over the course of more than a millennium, with no clear moment of birth, although it was mature certainly by the High Middle Ages. Where the approach to God had been anthropological, it was now also philosophical ontological, to be more precise.
So now we know that something of what Moses experienced when God visited him on Mount Horeb is available to anyone who will only take enough thought. The mystery of being induces wonder, or awe, commensurate with our willingness to engage it. Its astonishing, when you think about it, that anything exists.
Q: Why is there something rather than nothing?
A: God, although maybe we need a new name for him.
Many people who would never think to participate in the rancor of public antitheism are nonetheless susceptible to the zeitgeist in which atheism flourishes. Its what they know. Doesnt it speak well enough for them too? They start from the proposition that God is a person and rule it out as implausible. The argument that God can only be personal because he cant be less than we are may be cogent in itself, but it needs a lot of unpacking. It has as its premise the God of the philosophers. To begin to make theism intelligible to a modern atheist, you have to bracket the God of the patriarchs and start from the premise.
Atheism is religion for people in a hurry. Theyre quick to assume they understand someone who, engrossed in the question of why there isnt nothing, says a few words to indicate what he sees the question pointing to. They mistake his verbal gesture for an answer thats intended to close the question or do it justice. To see what hes trying to get at, they would have to enter into the wonder that the question elicits in him and dwell there for a moment. The closest thing the question has to an answer is the wonder itself.
Religious culture adorns our collective understanding of God but also conceals it. The Psalms, the Sistine Chapel, the terms of art employed by philosophers and theologians all those noble efforts at representing God can be helps to someone who speaks their language. To someone who doesnt, they can be a hindrance. For their rejection of all gods in the familiar sense of the term, Christians in ancient Rome were sometimes accused of being atheists. Now the misunderstanding is turned on its head: Atheists hold the Christian, and indeed any modern theist, to be most glaringly wrong in his understanding that God is a person, like a god of pagan antiquity. Training their sights on the notion of an anthropomorphic god, they excite and distract themselves. God as Being itself barely registers with them.
Why dont you see the extraordinary beauty of the idea that we can explain the world, life, how it started, from nothing? Dawkins asked the archbishop of Canterbury at the time, Rowan Williams, during a debate at the Cambridge Union Society last year. Why clutter it up with something so messy as God?
Im not thinking of God as being shoehorned in, Williams answered.
But that is exactly how I see God, Dawkins replied, helpfully, illustrating how the sound and the fury that is the New Atheism and the old atheism, for that matter is generated mostly from confusion about the terms of the debate. That the world comes from nothing is an idea that Dawkins finds to be of extraordinary beauty. To ask what he means by nothing will provoke some eyeball-rolling at first, but the longer you think about it, the more you realize just how stubbornly inscrutable a concept nothing is, like time, which gave Saint Augustine so much trouble: I know what time is until you ask me for a definition of it.
In A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing, Lawrence M. Krauss, a physicist, undertook to counter the ontological argument for God as the answer to the question Why is there not nothing? That argument is elegant, simple, and starker than apparently he appreciated. In the afterword to the book, Dawkins with characteristic verve celebrated Krausss claim to have removed the philosophical cornerstone of theism.
By nothing, it turns out, Krauss meant only the vacuum state, which in quantum theory is a field characterized by the occurrence of fleeting electromagnetic waves. In a withering review, David Albert, a theoretical physicist and philosophy professor at Columbia, dismissed A Universe from Nothing as a fraud and excoriated Krauss for failing to deliver the goods advertised in its title: Vacuum states no less than giraffes or refrigerators or solar systems are particular arrangements of elementary physical stuff. The true relativistic-quantum-field-theoretical equivalent to there not being any physical stuff at all isnt this or that particular arrangement of the fields what it is (obviously, and ineluctably, and on the contrary) is the simple absence of the fields!
Had he more space, Albert might have mentioned that Krausss first misstep was his attempt to identify nothing: To define nothing is to say what it is, when what its intended to convey is an absence of being. You cant talk about nothing without treating it as something. And so, on close inspection, the question Why is there not nothing? turns out to be paradoxical as we should expect, given that when the answer cannot be put into words, neither can the question, as Wittgenstein observed. Still, its hard to let the question go; we intuit the intended meaning even as it eludes our ability to capture it in precise language. While the word nothing is self-contradictory and irrational when strictly interpreted, it does, like the number zero in mathematics, serve a purpose when used gingerly or with enough qualification.
Used loosely, nothing is put to practical use every day. Dawkins makes it a placeholder for God. By invoking nothing, he can point to the source of the universe without implying that You Know Who had anything to do with it. So much anxiety rides on the G word and what Dawkins evidently regards as the undue respect it might connote. He treats it as if it were a proper name, which it isnt, as David Bentley Hart patiently points out in his gem of a new book, The Experience of God: Being, Consciousness, Bliss. Still, on their own terms, antitheists are correct to be mindful of the halo that surrounds God in everyday usage; some observant Jews omit the vowel, for example, treating it almost as if it were the Tetragrammaton itself.
Its become too familiar, this ordinary English word for what we tend to talk around rather than talk about. So forget God. Call him Nothing, if you prefer:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Nothing, and the Word was Nothing. The key to understanding John 1:1 turns on the verbs, not the nouns. Dawkins in his awe before the Nothing sounds like Heidegger but without Heideggers awareness of the unfathomable profundity of what it means to be.
Notice how nothing can function for the atheist as God does for the theist. Are the two only using different linguistic tokens in parallel efforts to express the same ineffable thought? Their fear and trembling at the prospect of the eternal nada, Jones and Evans explain, moves them to cultivate their appreciation for the physical world (Christians call it Creation) that tickles our sense organs in the here and now: Transcendence can be found in a breath of wind on your face or in a mouthful of custard tart, they write. They pronounce nature awesome, a word whose recently acquired colloquial sense still shades into its older, literal sense. Open the door to just that much transcendence, however, and all of it comes rushing in, like a strong wind. Atheists instinctively try to resist it, while those of us who have been blown away by it recommend the experience.
Wonder more, the Sunday Assembly urges, and adherents of monotheistic religions echo the advice back to them. No, following wonder to its logical conclusion does not by itself make an atheist suddenly Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. It only means hes not an atheist. Someone should tell him.
Nicholas Frankovich is a deputy managing editor of National Review.
For over a century, they were called “communists” and pushed state atheism on about a third of the world’s surface.
I'm not sure. I'm an athegnosticist.
And they still are communists. Most are made up of communists Democratic Party and have transformed most of the Globe. King Obama, a perfect example, is a communists black Muslim and he is not christian. His principles are not the teachings of the scriptures and he is a anti Constitutionalists. He has literally burned our Constitution.
IMO, very few atheists exist because a human that can’t worship some kind of god is not natural. Without any god, the universe is a place of random actions and nothing has purpose, except to exist for a finite period. The most primitive man knew that this was a miserable worldview and they sought to change it.
Most modern atheists are angry people who think they are punishing God for some perceived transgression or they are people who worship the concept of an all-knowing and all-powerful groupthink (usually in the form of government) as God. Either way, they are far from being a person without a theology.
I remember a pastor in the past boiling down the concept of a god in this fashion: “Your god is who/what you serve.” So just looking at what the atheists are in service to is what shows what their god(s) is/are.
There are genuine atheists.
But the people you see today claiming to be one are just pissed off left-wing jerks that hate Christians and Jews, but because of some Austrian dude in the 40s making flat-out anti-Jewish talk a bit too risky, they mainly concentrate their rage on Christians.
They do not attack Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists or ingeniousness religions. Those religions either have too many minorities and may draw accusations of racism, or in the case of Islam, they will actually hunt you down and whack your head off.
Atheism is just a label they hide behind to make it seem like they are “principled” victims of a nation supposedly bent on oppressing them.
Why would you call it a church if you don’t believe in God?
A “new” Godless Church?? Really? I thought that the democRAT Party has been around for a very long time.
CLICK ON THIS LINK FOR PHOTOS OF THEIR SUNDAY ASSEMBLY:
RE: Why would you call it a church if you dont believe in God?
Well, “church” is taken from the Greek word : ECCLESSIA, which simply means “assembly”.
So, it is an assembly of people who share one mutual belief: GOD DOES NOT EXIST.
I’ve been going to atheist church for years, I call them “bars” for short.
>>I remember a pastor in the past boiling down the concept of a god in this fashion: Your god is who/what you serve. So just looking at what the atheists are in service to is what shows what their god(s) is/are.
I am so impressed.
Have you heard of Sam Harris? He's probably the most renowned of the currently active anti-theist intellectuals. He regularly infuriates the left by attacking Islam, believing it to be a greater threat to women, reason, and modernity than Christianity.
From his blog:
I have long struggled to understand how smart, well-educated liberals can fail to perceive the unique dangers of Islam. In The End of Faith, I argued that such people dont know what its like to really believe in God or Paradiseand hence imagine that no one else actually does. The symptoms of this blindness can be quite shocking. For instance, I once ran into the anthropologist Scott Atran after he had delivered one of his preening and delusional lectures on the origins of jihadist terrorism. According to Atran, people who decapitate journalists, filmmakers, and aid workers to cries of Alahu akbar! or blow themselves up in crowds of innocents are led to misbehave this way not because of their deeply held beliefs about jihad and martyrdom but because of their experience of male bonding in soccer clubs and barbershops.
And this, commenting on a Youtube video of an ecstatic muslim prayer recitation concerning the hellfire that awaits us nonbelievers (Christian, Jew, Buddhist, and Atheist alike).
This video has everything: the power of ritual and the power of the crowd; tears of devotion and a lust for vengeance. How many of the people in that mosque are jihadists? I have no ideaperhaps none. But their spiritual aspirations and deepest positive emotionslove, devotion, compassion, bliss, aweare being focused through the lens of sectarian hatred and humiliation. Read every word of the translation so that you understand what these devout people are weeping over. Their ecstasy is inseparable from the desire to see nonbelievers punished in hellfire. Is this some weird distortion of the true teachings of Islam? No. This is a recitation from the Koran articulating its central message. The video has over 2 million views on YouTube. It was posted by someone who promised his fellow Muslims that they, too, would weep tears of devotion upon seeing it. The reciter is Sheikh Mishary bin Rashid Alafasy of Kuwait. He has as many Twitter followers as Jerry Seinfeld and J.K. Rowling (2 million). In doctrinal terms, this is not the fringe of Islam. It is the center.
Islam marries religious ecstasy and sectarian hatred in a way that other religions do not. Secular liberals who worry more about Islamophobia than about the actual doctrine of Islam are guilty of a failure of empathy. They fail not just with respect to the experience of innocent Muslims who are treated like slaves and criminals by this religion, but with respect to the inner lives of its true believers. Most secular people cannot begin to imagine what a (truly) devout Muslim feels. They are blind to the range of experiences that would cause an otherwise intelligent and psychologically healthy person to say, I will happily die for this. Unless you have tasted religious ecstasy, you cannot understand the danger of its being pointed in the wrong direction.
Yeah, I saw that crap.
Not at all surprised that they are “comedians”. From the same “comedy school” as Bill Maher, no doubt.
The roots of atheism are always moral not intellectual.
Well, kind of...
Bible says that atheists do NOT exist.
Atheism is a belief system, so it is a religious view.
>> Atheism is a belief system, so it is a religious view.
I don’t see it that way. In my experience, the atheist argues against the existence of God. While this is technically a belief as are most thoughts, it’s primarily a rejection of thoughts held by others. Atheists assert the non-existence of an intangible concept experienced and shared by others.
Atheists are idiots.
>> Bible says that atheists do NOT exist.
An atheist cannot exist without one who professes to believe in God.
Oh gee, thanks.
Never underestimate the ability of hucksters to find a flock to fleece.
I wonder as I wander out under the sky,
How Jesus the Savior did come for to die.
For poor orn’ry people like you and like I...
I wonder as I wander out under the sky.
When Mary birthed Jesus ‘twas in a cow’s stall,
With wise men and farmers and shepherds and all.
But high from God’s heaven a star’s light did fall,
And the promise of ages it then did recall.
If Jesus had wanted for any wee thing,
A star in the sky, or a bird on the wing,
Or all of God’s angels in heav’n for to sing,
He surely could have it, ‘cause he was the King.
—collected and additional lyrics written by John Jacob Niles
There’s no reason for you to be offended by my remarks.
Well old Sam has that right, sort of like the blind squirrel or the stopped clock.
For the same reason Civil War re-enactors will call themselves an “army” even though they have no bullets.