Posted on 01/27/2014 1:46:12 PM PST by Gamecock
(Your 'tradition' may vary...)
(Your 'tradition' may vary...)
Man has become like one of us; knowing good and evil.
Truth hurts for those deceived as they use their wisdom to coddle themselves for temporary relief but there is no lasting peace without God/Truth. Truth is not going anywhere as It always was and always will be and those born again will live with TRUTH forever.
“Resorting to ad hominem attacks and attributing motive (bigotry!) in lieu of an argument is a sign of desperation, but in light of the evidence this kind of response indicates it applies to the accuser.”
Once one gets through the nonsense, the semantic content of that sentence reduces to, “So’s your old lady.”
The remark to which it refers is not an ad hominem attack, nor does it attribute motive. It is, however, an accurate description of your modus operandi—which is to say, of your actions.
The Holy Father is a man who temporarily occupies a post within the Church. Quote whom you may, it remains a fact that the sinful men who commit the actions we’re discussing are acting without the sanction of the Church and against her teachings.
Your refusal to admit what is before your eyes is not heroic, or even principled, but only obdurate.
“In the eyes of the traditionalist wing of the Church, however, Kennedy should have been asking the Pope for forgiveness. The Vatican’s official newspaper L’Osservatore Romano reported Kennedy’s death, praising his work on civil rights and fighting poverty, but noted that his record was marred by his stance on abortion.”
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919064,00.html
“The subsequent response from a papal aide offering Benedict’s prayers for his health, according to a veteran ambassador to the Holy See, was likely of a pro forma nature. Such letters are typically handled either by the office of the sostituto, the No. 2 official in the Secretary of State’s office or by the Pope’s private secretary. “It’s very rare to have a letter with the Pope’s own signature,” says the diplomatic source. In any case, coming in July, it was clearly not a response to Kennedy’s death.”
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1919651,00.html
Just so people aren’t further confused, though, let’s look at the blessing that the Holy Father conveyed to the dying Ted Kennedy.
“He (Pope Benedict) was saddened to know of your illness, and has asked me to assure you of his concern and his spiritual closeness. He is particularly grateful for your promise of prayers for him and for the needs of the universal Church.
“The Holy Father has read the letter which you entrusted to President Barack Obama, who kindly presented it to him during their recent meeting. His Holiness prays that in the days ahead you may be sustained in faith and hope, and granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father. He invokes upon you the consolation and peace promised by the Risen Savior to all who share in His sufferings and trust in His promise of eternal life.
“Commending you and the members of your family to the loving intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Father cordially imparts his Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord.”
No reasonable person would interpret that boilerplate response to a request for prayers as condoning Kennedy’s many crimes. On the contrary, the Holy Father prays that Kennedy will be granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father.” IOW, that Kennedy will repent before it’s too late.
The Holy Father decided that honey would have a better chance of working than bile. Pope (emeritus) Benedict is very wise.
My "actions" consist of stating substantiated facts and what is before my eyes versus your simply denials, and yet charge me with a refusal to admit what is before your eyes due being stubborn, which is an ad hominem attack that attributes an unwarranted unwillingness to yield, on other words, what some call bigotry, which charge is often resorted to by RCs when faced with facts that impugn Rome.
The Holy Father is a man who temporarily occupies a post within the Church. Quote whom you may, it remains a fact that the sinful men who commit the actions we’re discussing are acting without the sanction of the Church and against her teachings.
Quote yourself as you may, but you are simply denying the fact that as actions show what one believes, Rome is sanctioning liberal Catholicism by refusing for decades, among other things, to excommunicate even notorious public RCs who openly deny basic RC moral teaching. And which traditionalist RCs demand. Denying this does not make it go away.
Your refusal to admit what is before your eyes is not heroic, or even principled, but only obdurate.
Are you talking to yourself or your church?
In the eyes of the traditionalist wing of the Church, however, Kennedy should have been asking the Pope for forgiveness.
But which was not how Ted - whose hands were red with the blood of the babies whose blood he shed, as well as deaths caused by sodomites, whose "rights" he supported - was treated by Rome.
The subsequent response from a papal aide offering Benedict’s prayers for his health, according to a veteran ambassador to the Holy See, was likely of a pro forma nature. Such letters are typically handled either by the office of the sostituto, the No. 2 official in the Secretary of State’s office or by the Pope’s private secretary. “It’s very rare to have a letter with the Pope’s own signature,” says the diplomatic source. In any case, coming in July, it was clearly not a response to Kennedy’s death.”
Of course it was not a response to his death - he has yet to die - but it was in response to Ted's letter to the pope, and expresses the pope's personal interaction with its contents, response. and regardless of the nature of the letter, in which there is no repentance or request for forgiveness expressed, just the generic "fallen short through human failings" concession, whiler impudently asserting, "I have never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of my faith."
And rather than rebuke, the response expresses none and instead it expresses the pope's appreciation for Ted's prayers (not quite "lifting up holy hands") and giving his apostolic blessing.
Thus all you can do is plead the postulated pro forma nature of a response hand-delivered in July by President Obama, which interacts with its contents as relying the popes response, versus something like a formal official signed reply. Yet the fact is that the latter is what is lacking, and the former is what we have, along with a church funeral, thus interpreting in practical terms what Rome means by its formal teaching!
The hearers of truth look for the interpretation by how the teachers of it apply it in their own lives.
His Holiness prays that in the days ahead you may be sustained in faith and hope,...
No reasonable person would interpret that boilerplate response to a request for prayers as condoning Kennedy’s many crimes. On the contrary, the Holy Father prays that Kennedy will be granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful Father.” IOW, that Kennedy will repent before it’s too late.
Rather, that is an interpretation which is required because the leader of the Christian world" is thankful for the prayers of a man in mortal sin, whom he hopes will be sustained in faith, and is unwilling to make it clear that Kennedy is a damned + destitute sinner on his unholy way to Hell.
You think this boilerplate nuanced prayer is going to convict a politician who thinks he never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of his faith? He would thus easily see himself as being in surrender to the will of God, sharing in Christ's sufferings.
Instead your interpretation implicitly indicts the pope of counting a prohomosexual murderer as a member of the church, expressly commending him for his prayers while not being able or willing to express his disapproval of Ted in any clear manner!
The Holy Father decided that honey would have a better chance of working than bile. Pope (emeritus) Benedict is very wise.
Rather, wisdom is seeing how the apostles deal with leaders. (Acts (Acts 4:1-22; 24:22-24) The fact that RC must resort to this type of spin simply reveals the moral impotence of Rome, and her implicit sanction of liberal RCs as being members.
Wow. I am gobsmacked.
You just set yourself up as the superior of a scholarly, saintly, deeply learned man—Pope Benedict XVI—and you even presume to lecture him on how he should have discharged his duties.
It’s astounding. And not because of his office; just mano a mano, heads up.
Most people, if led by a very wise man, should be able to recognize this.
To have to EXPLAIN it to them indicates quite a lot about their logic handling abilities.
You just set yourself up as the superior of a scholarly, saintly, deeply learned man—daniel212—and you even presume to lecture him and yet provide NO data to give any weight to your accusations.
You set yourself up as the mind reader of Pope Benedict (besides me), and reject the Scriptures as superior telling him he should have discharged his duties (if he was even a NT pastor).
...and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:15)
For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. (1 Corinthians 5:12-13)
"I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. (1 Corinthians 10:20) But you and the pope would.
It’s astounding. And not because of his office; just mano a mano, heads up.
More desperation in the light of damning evidence
And then when attempting damage control, decades of treating one prohomosexual proabortion notorious public sinner (among many) as a member, and the commendation of the prayers of this man in mortal sin, a standard blessing to him that mentioned prays for joyful surrender to Christ (not James tearful repentance) is made out to be an call to repentance.
And with gutsy mindreading attributing "wisdom" to that which expects a politician who had the audacity to claim to the pope that he "always tried to be a faithful Catholic," who "never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings of my faith" (perhaps based upon what Rome's response to him indicated that real faith was), to see this boilerplate prayer as calling him to Biblical repentance.
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:8-10)
The Lord "saw people's faith, and by her overall actions, or non-actions -which have many TRCs it seems longing for the days and worldly means of the Inquisitions, and some even separating into Catholic sects - is what the multitudes of mini Teddy Ks see as constituting what Rome really believes.
Except for that little incident about a trinket removed from a dead man...
https://www.google.com/search?q=pope+francis+theft+of+rosary+crucifix&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475
“You just set yourself up as the superior of a scholarly, saintly, deeply learned man—daniel212”
If someone who was not a participant on FR were to say such a thing, I would think they were insane.
Of course, I would never think—much less say—that of anyone who posts here.
A word to the wise for all my Protestant and Catholic brothers and sisters:
Luke 9:49-50 “49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us”
Amen.
IMHO (for what THAT's worth!), you have strange thoughts.
I would think that someone who thinks them must have good reason to do so.
Sorry; oh pingless one...
And now; A few words from our Catholic brothers...
You might be interested in the above...
2 1/2 months and no reply.
I guess that...
They CAN'T count on you; and my data be all they get to see!
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