Posted on 02/08/2014 4:28:42 PM PST by NKP_Vet
There’s a reason that rag is called the National Catholic Distorter... and Thomas Reese? Really? As I suspected it’s that stupid Pew report, why do people who wouldn’t acknowledge that Reese knew his mouth from a hole in the ground pay attention to him on this?
Any enemy of my enemy is my friend when it comes to religion I guess.
People do leave because of sexual issues, they just aren’t likely to tell a pollster... they also probably don’t even care to admit it to themselves.
Lol, well that settles that then.
If you’ll read your own source material you’ll find that even the Pew report acknowledges sexual issues as a reason for people leaving.
The main reason for changing denominations is clear, and it isn’t because of people who live like Ted Kennedy.
“If you believed liberals, most Catholics who leave the church would be joining mainline churches, like the Episcopal church. In fact, almost two-thirds of former Catholics who join a Protestant church join an evangelical church. Catholics who become evangelicals and Catholics who join mainline churches are two very distinct groups. We need to take a closer look at why each leaves the church.
Fifty-four percent of both groups say that they just gradually drifted away from Catholicism. Both groups also had almost equal numbers (82 percent evangelicals, 80 percent mainline) saying they joined their new church because they enjoyed the worship service. But compared to those who became mainline Protestants, a higher percentage of those becoming evangelicals said they left because their spiritual needs were not being met (78 percent versus 57 percent) and that they had stopped believing in Catholic teaching (62 percent versus 20 percent). They also cited the church’s teaching on the Bible (55 percent versus 16 percent) more frequently as a reason for leaving. Forty-six percent of these new evangelicals felt the Catholic church did not view the Bible literally enough. Thus, for those leaving to become evangelicals, spiritual sustenance, worship services and the Bible were key. Only 11 percent were unhappy with the church’s teachings on poverty, war, and the death penalty Ñ the same percentage as said they were unhappy with the church’s treatment of women. Contrary to what conservatives say, ex-Catholics are not flocking to the evangelicals because they think the Catholic church is politically too liberal. They are leaving to get spiritual nourishment from worship services and the Bible.”
If the Church believes their teachings are correct, it seems logical that it should be doing more to enforce them. And yes, I have the right to express that opinion---just as you did as in "...find themselves another faith...".
Changes in some laws have certainly been discussed, even by priests and bishops. I doubt if anyone (I included) has suggested that every teaching should be abandoned! I hope you realize that you jump to your own thoughtless conclusions.
I never said I want the Church to "say murder is OK." Nor did I even intimate that it should condone homosexual marriage. Where do you come up with this stuff?
If a Catholic can not abide by each and every teaching of the Catholic Church they need to find a protestant faith that suits them.
That’s nice that you feel that way for yourself and the church denomination that you choose to belong to, but it has nothing to do with my post 51, I was merely correcting an inaccuracy that you had posted.
Amen.
Those marks will forever be on your soul. You will always be a Catholic
No! I was going on 8 years old as a 1'st Baptist and they drag you to a dunking tank in front of the church. I was totally embarrassed that everyone could see my underwear.. Still suffer from the trauma.
I did not convert to Catholic. I went for 10 years (more or less). I never took communion.
Well if everybody’s doing it, then it must be OK then...
The essence of moral relativism.
The big problem is largely not that abuse happens, because yes, it does happen in all walks of life. The glaring problem is that the Church, at very high levels has made it a practice to shield abusers and allow them to continue their crimes. I for one am willing to believe that this has been done out of belief in confession and claims of repentance by the offenders. However foolish that was.
I don't believe that, and neither do you. What's the point of repeating such a canard?
"I for one am willing to believe that this has been done out of belief in confession and claims of repentance by the offenders. However foolish that was."
I think that's likely. There was also a wrongheaded confidence in the therapeutic approach to offenders: as in (LINK) #43
What was the purpose of posting the statistical summary in #3, if not to say “See, we’re not so bad”? Sorry, that seems to be the standard reply in all abuse threads, and it grates on me.
Perhaps it’s my ignorant prejudice about RCC youth protection policy. I’m well versed in the Boy Scout policy which requires anyone who sees abuse, or receives a report of abuse is to report it to the police immediately without judging the veracity, then to the Scout Executive. There is no allowance for one on one meetings between Scouts and adult leaders in any case, absent another trained leader. Anyone caught doing this repeatedly will be ejected. That’s a pretty effective policy. That’s my standard. I don’t think the Church comes close. If you have info to the contrary and feel like forwarding it, I’ll read it. Yes, I know the BSA has been accused of holding on to abuser information, but I believe they’ve done for the stated purpose of protecting kids.
I am sincerely taken aback that you thought I was saying "Pedophilia isn't so bad, everybody does it." That would be a grotesque point of view, as you say, outright moral relativism.
What I am objecting to is the misleading and tendentious way the overall pedophilia news is reported, so as to make a strong impression that there is some egregious link between Catholicism and pedophilia.
That impedes the practices and policies needed to obtain effective child protection. Why? Because media and prosecutorial scrutiny is focused on Catholic institutions to such a degree that institutions with a higher risk of pedophilia are effectively given a pass. (When I speak of "higher risk" I mean the 10-20x higher incidence found in group home and foster care placements, pediatric psychology and psychiatry practices, youth athletic leagues and the like, and --- for sheer volume of offenses --- public schools.)
It also creates a distorted public perception that Catholic faith and morals foster pedophilia (for instance, one side says it's because the Catholic Church is too intolerant of homosexuals; the other, that she is too tolerant.)
The first thing I could lay my hands on in terms of child protective standards is the VIRTUS document on pastoral conduct, particularly page 7. Note that many partsof his document apply to standards of conduct with other adults (not just children); some apply to laity and clergy in general; some parts are addressed specifically to pastoral counselors and spiritual directors.
I ask you to note this because Scout leaders don't do pastoral counseling and spiritual direction, and thus can be held to the standard that there should be no one-to-one interaction between Scout leaders and individual Scouts. This is not necessarily the case when a minor (or adult) is receiving appropriate counseling, which requires confidentiality.
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
Thank you. I like section 8.1. I think it needs to be emphasized.
My thoughts. The church should try to find a way that there can be a second adult in physical proximity when confidentiality is required. Perhaps not within normal earshot, but with a known presence and availability. This not only protects the child, but the clergy as well.
My final thought - I won’t let my children be alone and completely isolated with a priest for any significant period of time.
That's even true for counseling situations --- he will put a sign on his open door saying "counseling in session" to prevent people walking in (breaches of confidentiality).
With reference to sacramental Confession, he will generally only hear confessions in the confessional at the regularly posted twice-weekly times, which would normally mean that there are other people around, either waiting in line or kneeling nearby doing their post-Confession prayers. The exceptions would be when he is hearing the confession of a sick person in a nursing home or hospital or wherever.
This is pretty tough on priests. One priest friend told me was told in seminary that "If you touch or are touched by a student, you WILL be in trouble with the Bishop." And yet every time he goes over to the school, there are kids that run up and grab his hands. I've seen him ganged-up-on by huggy kids. The teachers have told hem not to do that, but what's he gonna do?
But you're right: strict limits protect not only the children, but the clergy as well. I have seen false allegations that nearly ruined a priest who turned out to be 100% innocent. The mere accusation can focus long-term suspicion -- or worse --- on an innocent man.
Par for the course here. Every pedophile priest article is posted by Roman Catholics to attract comments to reinforce the perceived persecution complex.
...what is actually far more ‘par for the course here’ are vacuous opinions that state nothing...other than one’s childish delights in insults...
Catholics who move to another Christian denomination do so because they want a deeper relationship with Christ and faith, not because they are seeking a church more “indifferent” to their Christian faith and lives.
...and you know this how...?
My final thought - I won’t let my children be alone and completely isolated with a priest for any significant period of time.
...ah, the smell of bigotry on the internet...gotta love it...
I didn’t rely on the common sense obviousness of it, as post 64 shows.
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