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THE PROTESTANTS DILEMMA BY DEVIN ROSE: A REVIEW
Just a writer, who refuses to typecast his blog by giving it a title ^ | March 18, 2014 | Scott Eric Alt

Posted on 03/19/2014 1:32:10 PM PDT by rwa265

If a Protes­tant look­ing into the claims of Catholi­cism were to ask me, “What one book should I read, where I can find a quick answer to any ques­tion I have?” I would tell him to read Devin Rose’s new book The Protestant’s Dilemma. I would also rec­om­mend this book to Protes­tant apol­o­gists, even those of many years, well-skilled in polemics. It will remind them of the heavy bur­den of proof they face, and the weak­ness of their posi­tion on point after point. The truth may set them free and bring them home too. (It has happened.)

All this may seem like over­state­ment — the oblig­a­tory praise from one Catholic blog­ger to another. But it is not.

Con­sider first the range of issues this book takes up. There are thirty-six chap­ters, each one on a dif­fer­ent topic, from the papacy to sola scrip­tura, from the canon of the Bible to Pur­ga­tory, from con­fes­sion to Eucharist to infant bap­tism. If some­thing about the Catholic Church trou­bles you, this book has the answer. If you think you have found the point on which Catholi­cism fails, this book will show you why it is one more point upon which Protes­tantism fails.

Con­sider also the brevity. The book is just over 200 pages long, which means that Mr. Rose’s answers get to the root of the ques­tion with­out a knot of aca­d­e­mic detail. It is harder to do than it might seem. This is the book of a man who has spent a long time study­ing the ques­tions that divide Protes­tants and Catholics, and who knows how to present his case in a way that is easy for any­one to under­stand. At the same time, the book is use­ful for the pro­fes­sional apol­o­gist, for it recalls his mind to the basics.

(Excerpt) Read more at scottericalt.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: bookreview
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To: metmom
"Why does HE allow any evil?"

I know you know this, but to draw us closer to Him. The world is fallen and thus Christ's redemption of fallen humanity is necessary.

It's in this context that Romans 8:28 is even more comforting.

"We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose."

Bless your day.

401 posted on 03/22/2014 9:30:09 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
My posts in this thread have been to take gentle issue with a poster who claims the Bible was written by Catholics and with a poster who said confessing sins to God was somehow a Protestant misinterpretation despite extensive Scriptural proof to the contrary.

Nevertheless, you will eventually be accused of being *anti-Catholic* and a *hater* simply for disagreeing, no matter how much you stick to the topic.

Some people just don't deal well with other points of view and take things way too personally.

402 posted on 03/22/2014 9:32:30 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Gamecock
Islam, since 610 AD.

Humanism and Satan Worship, since Day 6 in the garden.

403 posted on 03/22/2014 9:34:08 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: metmom; Colonel_Flagg

No metmom your posts are decidedly and unabashedly anti-Catholic, which is why I wouldn’t give you the time of day.

...the Col. on the other hand gives reasoned, well thought objections, primarily in the form of questions - for which he should be commended.

AMDG
For the Greater Glory of God


404 posted on 03/22/2014 9:50:52 AM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: verga
If the Catholic Church is as horrible and evil as you say why is it still here after 2000 years?

Ping to post #403.

405 posted on 03/22/2014 10:09:41 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: LurkingSince'98

I post much Scripture.

It’s too bad that you consider that *anti-Catholic*.

I thought the Catholic church takes credit for giving us the Bible.


406 posted on 03/22/2014 10:42:58 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom; Gamecock
I thought the Catholic church takes credit for giving us the Bible.

IMO they regret the gift, and would now like it back.

407 posted on 03/22/2014 10:54:49 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Col...

The first problem that I will address is that the majority of protestants, do not believe that anything written after the death of the last apostle is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. As such they do not read and are ignorant of the Didache http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html, which was used to instruct catechumens in the first century.

It was likely written and used in practice prior to the time the actual Gospels (John’s Revelation for sure) were written. When you read it you will know immediately why protestants do not like the Didache, because it sounds (gasp)Catholic.

Next if you read the Apostolic Church Father, those early Church leaders and writers, who studied at the feet of the apostles. In general they include: Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, the author of the Didache, and the author of the Shepherd of Hermas. These earlier church fathers were associated with apostles: Clement with Peter (associated closely with Rome) and with Paul (as the Clement Paul wrote about in Philippians 4:3), Papias and Polycarp with John (associated with Asia Minor).

As were the apostles, except John, ALL of the Apostolic Fathers were martyred for their faith.

You can find most of their writings together in “The Apostolic Fathers - The Essential Guide” here: http://www.christosofautumnridge.com/product.asp?sku=068734204X

To the specifics of your question:

1) all of your quotes prior to the last quote from John were Old Testament and for which you are absolutely correct. Since Christ was not yet Incarnate, The Jews had only God the Father to confess their sins to and which they somewhat grudgingly did. It is important to note that the OT is the prototype of the NT

2) But with Christ Incarnate, and since He alone made the ultimate sacrifice, He alone became the Mediator of all reconciliation with the Father and it is Christ who ‘makes all things New”. So a strict interpretation of the OT is overridden by the NT, otherwise why did Christ come, but to change things - confession being one of them.

3) In the NT, the clear and unambiguous direction regarding confession of sins came as “...confess your sins to one another...”, which since there is only One Truth means exactly what it says: confess. your. sins. to. one. another.” For a protestant to confess “directly to God” as most claim they do is being, at best, Anti-Scriptural. A Scriptural statement, written as a direct command is not something to twist or play with. And as a Catholic we do not believe in YOPIOS (Your Own Personal Interpretation Of Scripture)- it says what it means and it means what it says.

4) Now reading the Didache and the works of the Apostolic and Early Church Fathers you will find multiple references of the faithful confessing to one another when they are gathered together - obviously necessary if one were to confess to ‘one another’. Contradiction of their personal interpretation is one reason that protestants shy away for serious study of these writings, the second is that they deny these works are in any way divinely inspired, and the third is that they ‘sound Catholic’, which is of course the truth since we base our tradition and liturgy upon them.

I’ve run out of time and hope to return to complete my explanation to you.

I do not accept your statement to “educate me” since I believe it is you who educate yourself and it is you who must remove any vincible ignorance at to the fullness of your faith, which like it or not includes what we are discussing.

Regards,

Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
For The Greater Glory of God


408 posted on 03/22/2014 11:25:08 AM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: verga

I was pointing out the Medici dynastic hold on the Papacy for a season or four. An historic observed fact, no?


409 posted on 03/22/2014 11:36:59 AM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: redleghunter

so basically you are saying that you, redleg, cannot help anyone to achieve salvation.


410 posted on 03/22/2014 11:48:01 AM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: Gamecock; verga; metmom; boatbums; daniel1212; CynicalBear

Don’t forget in the monotheistic religions the Hebrews have the “history” claim all locked up. Still ongoing.


411 posted on 03/22/2014 12:38:55 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: LurkingSince'98
It was likely written and used...

It's that unsureness that gets us...

412 posted on 03/22/2014 12:42:05 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LurkingSince'98; redleghunter

redleghunter; is your mouth big enough to hold all these words?


413 posted on 03/22/2014 12:42:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LurkingSince'98; COL. FLAGG; metmom; daniel1212; boatbums; CynicalBear; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; ...

>>The first problem that I will address is that the majority of protestants, do not believe that anything written after the death of the last apostle is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. As such they do not read and are ignorant of the Didache http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html, which was used to instruct catechumens in the first century.<<

Since the assertion is the Catholic church gave us the Bible, then why did not the church fathers include the post apostolic period divine revelations? If they included such writings, practices and traditions in the Bible then we would not be having this conversation.

There are a few potential reasons why the church fathers did not include these other writings. The first would be they made a grave error in doing so would put to rest the claim of an infallible magesterium. Second it could be there was not consensus among them to add to the NT. And finally based on the second point they established apostolic authority as the screening criteria. The last point is well documented in the writings of the church fathers.

Lastly, you have a multitude of evangelicals and protestants here on FR who know the church fathers from their Catholic upbringing and Catholic university education. The Didache is quoted often but when one reads it, there is nothing there to promote the Roman Church we see today. It is not a “smoking gun.”


414 posted on 03/22/2014 12:56:27 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: LurkingSince'98; Colonel_Flagg
The first problem that I will address is that the majority of protestants, do not believe that anything written after the death of the last apostle is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. As such they do not read and are ignorant of the Didache http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html, which was used to instruct catechumens in the first century.

That's not a problem. The extra Biblical revelation added later is, such as the Didache.

The Mormons and whole bunches of other cults also claim extra-Biblical revelation. So whose do we believe?

It was likely written and used in practice prior to the time the actual Gospels (John’s Revelation for sure) were written. When you read it you will know immediately why protestants do not like the Didache, because it sounds (gasp)Catholic.

*LIKELY* written?

No, it's not a mater of not liking it. It's a matter of it not accepting it as God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.

It's not rejected on the basis of like or not like but on truth or not truth.

Next if you read the Apostolic Church Father, those early Church leaders and writers, who studied at the feet of the apostles. In general they include: Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, the author of the Didache, and the author of the Shepherd of Hermas. These earlier church fathers were associated with apostles: Clement with Peter (associated closely with Rome) and with Paul (as the Clement Paul wrote about in Philippians 4:3), Papias and Polycarp with John (associated with Asia Minor).

As were the apostles, except John, ALL of the Apostolic Fathers were martyred for their faith.

Opinion pieces are still opinion pieces, no matter how anyone died.

I do not accept your statement to “educate me” since I believe it is you who educate yourself and it is you who must remove any vincible ignorance at to the fullness of your faith, which like it or not includes what we are discussing.

Your better than thouness has been noted.


415 posted on 03/22/2014 1:00:39 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: LurkingSince'98; redleghunter; metmom; daniel1212
As such they do not read and are ignorant of the Didache http://www.paracletepress.com/didache.html, which was used to instruct catechumens in the first century.

On the contrary I've read the Didache and much of the church fathers, especially Augustine. I'm pretty sure it's the Papists who are actually quite ignorant of them, otherwise they would become Protestants.

416 posted on 03/22/2014 1:24:33 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
On the contrary I've read the Didache and much of the church fathers, especially Augustine.

The Didache is very brief. A page or two. Every Christian can and should read it.

417 posted on 03/22/2014 1:29:21 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: LurkingSince'98
I do not accept your statement to “educate me” since I believe it is you who educate yourself and it is you who must remove any vincible ignorance at to the fullness of your faith, which like it or not includes what we are discussing.

My goodness gracious, Lurking. I appreciate your answer but I believe you misunderstood my request.

I guess what I was hoping you'd provide me is something from Scripture that says my belief is incorrect. My apologies for not making that plain.

Of course the Spirit moves everywhere, to believe otherwise is to deny God's ongoing power and divinity. However, I don't believe God will move in a way contrary to His word, otherwise it will return to Him void contrary to Isaiah 55:11.

Christ himself told us to pray to God for the forgiveness of our sins in the Lord's Prayer. If you continue to think that's extra-Scriptural, that's your business.

And, to nip your aggressive tone in the bud, I never made a statement to 'educate you'. I merely cited Scripture which denied the validity of your position.

I did, however, ask you to educate me, in the spirit of Christian kindness and fellowship. If you can do so using Scripture you'll find more fertile ground with me. If you can do it while treating me as a Christian adult instead of accusing me of ignorance when I've given you Scriptural reference to back my claim, you'll do better still.

Bless your day.

418 posted on 03/22/2014 1:43:46 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: metmom

Cute kitty cat. :)


419 posted on 03/22/2014 1:47:52 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Col..

thanks for your reply.

I am sure I did not misunderstand your request; however, you since you do not accept my answer no further discussion is necessary.

My first sentence sums up my discussion with you nicely: The first problem ... is that the majority of protestants, do not believe that anything written after the death of the last apostle is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Since you will only accept an answer from Scripture you prove my point that you are one of those protestants who do not accept that anything beyond the Bible is divinely inspired.

Therefore there is no need for further discussion.

AMDG


420 posted on 03/22/2014 2:12:01 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: CynicalBear

Satan is still around and it’s been much longer than 2000 years. Just sayin.


And Satan is yukking it up at the way we are tearing each other down on the way we follow Christ instead of focusing on following Christ. Just sayin.


421 posted on 03/22/2014 2:12:30 PM PDT by rwa265
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To: LurkingSince'98
My first sentence sums up my discussion with you nicely: The first problem ... is that the majority of protestants, do not believe that anything written after the death of the last apostle is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Since you will only accept an answer from Scripture you prove my point that you are one of those protestants who do not accept that anything beyond the Bible is divinely inspired.

So why is that a problem?

422 posted on 03/22/2014 2:13:16 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: LurkingSince'98
so basically you are saying that you, redleg, cannot help anyone to achieve salvation.

What that above has to do with Medici popes, one wonders.

However, since you asked I direct you to an aposlte of Jesus Christ for the message of the Gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

423 posted on 03/22/2014 2:31:54 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: Elsie

Should have pinged you to the response, sorry.


424 posted on 03/22/2014 2:36:53 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: LurkingSince'98; metmom; Gamecock; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans; boatbums
Next if you read the Apostolic Church Father, those early Church leaders and writers, who studied at the feet of the apostles. In general they include: Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, the author of the Didache, and the author of the Shepherd of Hermas. These earlier church fathers were associated with apostles: Clement with Peter (associated closely with Rome) and with Paul (as the Clement Paul wrote about in Philippians 4:3), Papias and Polycarp with John (associated with Asia Minor).

Can you point to the clearly "Catholic" teachings of Polycarp? I've read his epistle many times and see no hint of "Roman Catholic" teachings in it.

Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

425 posted on 03/22/2014 2:51:00 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
Of course the Spirit moves everywhere, to believe otherwise is to deny God's ongoing power and divinity. However, I don't believe God will move in a way contrary to His word, otherwise it will return to Him void contrary to Isaiah 55:11.

Wisest post on the board. God Bless you!

426 posted on 03/22/2014 2:56:18 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: redleghunter

so basically you are saying that you, redleg, cannot help anyone to achieve salvation.

red...

your progenitors have had 25 - 30 generations from the time of Christ before you arrived on earth...

in the intervening 25 - 30 statistics dictate that your ancestors have included psychopaths, manic/depressives, schizophrenics, thieves, rapists, murderers, surely sinners of all stripes - statistically speaking of course.

having such a degenerate background, it would certainly be impossible for you, RLH to be capable of bringing any good into the world. You and your progeny would forever be incapable of helping anyone and could bring the faith to no one. You and you progeny are forever damned.

Stupid analogy you say, bad premise you say, big Red Herring you say, anti-RLH you say!!!

Well not as stupid an analogy, not as bad a premise, not as big a Red Herring and not as anti-Catholic as that tripe your peddling about the Medici popes.

For the Greater Glory of God


427 posted on 03/22/2014 3:02:48 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: LurkingSince'98
Since you will only accept an answer from Scripture you prove my point that you are one of those protestants who do not accept that anything beyond the Bible is divinely inspired.

Let me postulate this to you: if the truth is on your side as you say, you wouldn't mind proving it to me through the Word of God, would you?

Thanks for the discussion. Believe it or not, I do appreciate it.

428 posted on 03/22/2014 3:06:33 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: redleghunter

You are most kind. Thank you.


429 posted on 03/22/2014 3:06:58 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Now that would be the exact waste of my Catholic time that I was speaking of.

I make it a point of never furthering a discussion in which my partner does not accept the very first premise.

You and your Protestant friends can just coffee klatch the day away affirming each other - that is one sure way of broadening your horizons.

AMDG


430 posted on 03/22/2014 3:23:01 PM PDT by LurkingSince'98 (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam = FOR THE GREATER GLORY OF GOD)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas; Greetings_Puny_Humans
I read this far in your Didache and didn’t need to read any further.

“4:6 If you have anything, by your hands you should give ransom for your sins.”

The ransom for our sins was Christ.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

That proves the Didache cannot be inspired by the Holy Spirit thus not to be used by Christians.

431 posted on 03/22/2014 3:26:35 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: LurkingSince'98

I’m sorry you feel using the source of all truth, God’s Word, to prove a Scriptural argument is a waste of time. I truly do hope the Word is more important to you than that, and I trust that it is.

I wish you well. Bless your day.

2 Ti 3:16


432 posted on 03/22/2014 3:27:42 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: LurkingSince'98; CynicalBear; metmom; Gamecock; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans; boatbums; ...
Next if you read the Apostolic Church Father, those early Church leaders and writers, who studied at the feet of the apostles. In general they include: Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp of Smyrna, the author of the Didache, and the author of the Shepherd of Hermas. These earlier church fathers were associated with apostles: Clement with Peter (associated closely with Rome) and with Paul (as the Clement Paul wrote about in Philippians 4:3), Papias and Polycarp with John (associated with Asia Minor).

Quite risky of you to include the Shepard of Hermes. That book seems to support adoptionism, which is contrary to the Trinity. Cultists use it quite frequently hoping to connect anti-Trinitarian heresy with the early church. I will also add that the early church did not recognize the writings of any Bishop or "holy person" as having the same or even similar strength to the scriptures, contrary to your claims. For example:

Cyril of Jerusalem on Sola Scriptura:

Not even his own teachings, he teaches, if it cannot be shown out of the holy scriptures, should be accepted:

“Have thou ever in your mind this seal, which for the present has been lightly touched in my discourse, by way of summary, but shall be stated, should the Lord permit, to the best of my power with the proof from the Scriptures. For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless thou receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures. For this salvation which we believe depends not on ingenious reasoning , but on demonstration of the Holy Scriptures.” (Cyril of Jerusalem, Cat. Lecture 4, Ch. 17)

Tradition is the whole knowledge of godliness contained both in the Old and New Testament (a summary of it, or its teachings), not that which is invented by man, transmitted by word of mouth to the illiterate:

“But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to you by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures. For since all cannot read the Scriptures, some being hindered as to the knowledge of them by want of learning, and others by a want of leisure, in order that the soul may not perish from ignorance, we comprise the whole doctrine of the Faith in a few lines. This summary I wish you both to commit to memory when I recite it, and to rehearse it with all diligence among yourselves, not writing it out on paper, but engraving it by the memory upon your heart , taking care while you rehearse it that no Catechumen chance to overhear the things which have been delivered to you. I wish you also to keep this as a provision through the whole course of your life, and beside this to receive no other, neither if we ourselves should change and contradict our present teaching, nor if an adverse angel, transformed into an angel of light 2 Corinthians 11:14 should wish to lead you astray. For though we or an angel from heaven preach to you any other gospel than that you have received, let him be to you anathema. Galatians 1:8-9 So for the present listen while I simply say the Creed, and commit it to memory; but at the proper season expect the confirmation out of Holy Scripture of each part of the contents. For the articles of the Faith were not composed as seemed good to men; but the most important points collected out of all the Scripture make up one complete teaching of the Faith. And just as the mustard seed in one small grain contains many branches, so also this Faith has embraced in few words all the knowledge of godliness in the Old and New Testaments. Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which you now receive, and write them on the table of your heart.” (Ibid, Lecture 5, Ch. 12)

433 posted on 03/22/2014 3:50:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: rwa265
>> And Satan is yukking it up at the way we are tearing each other down on the way we follow Christ instead of focusing on following Christ. Just sayin.<<

It’s not that simple rwa265. You see, the problem arises when someone teaches something the apostles didn’t teach.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9

Not only are we directed to admonish those who do that but we aren’t even to wish them God’s speed.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Christ didn’t teach praying to anyone other than the Father. Christ didn’t teach the Mary was to be the “queen of heaven”. In fact Christ said this when addressing the question of adoration of Mary.

Matthew 12:47 Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." 48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers! 50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."

So you see, there is a wide gulf between those who hold scripture and what the apostles taught to be supreme and those who have added to it and consider some “magesterium” to be supreme.

434 posted on 03/22/2014 4:14:57 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: LurkingSince'98; CynicalBear; metmom; Gamecock; daniel1212; Greetings_Puny_Humans; boatbums; ...
Now that would be the exact waste of my Catholic time that I was speaking of.

I've been kibitzing on this thread for a while, now, and can't help but laugh at the twists and lack of Scripture coming from Roman Catholics. The Catholics would rather posit that tradition and Rome are the arbiters of the truth and that Scripture is only relevant with a defining word from their interpretation.

When confronted with the clear and precise Scriptural refutation of their point(s), they will begin to accuse of anti-this or that or simply say they won't waste their precious Roman Catholic time. It seems that Satan has a stronghold and God is allowing it to stand (as previously demonstrated in the many responses to another red herring).

Tradition is the whole knowledge of godliness contained both in the Old and New Testament (a summary of it, or its teachings), not that which is invented by man, transmitted by word of mouth to the illiterate: -GPH

Mark 7: 8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.” 9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observec your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”


435 posted on 03/22/2014 4:16:38 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Help spread the good news; we can send helpmates to the good guys in D.C." -Sarah Palin, March 13)
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To: LurkingSince'98; Colonel_Flagg
>>Now that would be the exact waste of my Catholic time that I was speaking of.<<

And still here you are.

436 posted on 03/22/2014 4:19:48 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: WVKayaker
>>I've been kibitzing on this thread for a while, now, and can't help but laugh at the twists and lack of Scripture coming from Roman Catholics.<<

You noticed that to ey? It’s a puzzlement to me why anyone who would purport to call themselves Christian would reduce the very word of God to secondary status.

437 posted on 03/22/2014 4:25:22 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter

That’s not even taking into consideration the contradictions to scripture contained in them such as the one I posted.


438 posted on 03/22/2014 4:31:55 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: redleghunter; Greetings_Puny_Humans
Can you point to the clearly "Catholic" teachings of Polycarp? I've read his epistle many times and see no hint of "Roman Catholic" teachings in it.

knowing that "by grace you are saved, not of works," Ephesians 2:8-9 but by the will of God through Jesus Christ.... I trust that you are well versed in the Sacred Scriptures.

Over 60 Scripture references in this letter, making up about a half of it, and which make him sound more like Puritan than a RC.

439 posted on 03/22/2014 5:12:04 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thanks.


440 posted on 03/22/2014 5:12:15 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; LurkingSince'98; redleghunter
Over 60 Scripture references in this letter, making up about a half of it, and which make him sound more like Puritan than a RC.

And let us not forget how Ignatius greeted Polycarp!:

“Ignatius, who is [also called] Theophorus, to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, or rather, who has as his own bishop God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ: [wishes] abundance of happiness.” (Epistle to Polycarp)

So much for the Papacy!

441 posted on 03/22/2014 5:36:17 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: WVKayaker

Your post should be the parting comments for this thread. Excellent summary.


442 posted on 03/22/2014 6:25:49 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: daniel1212

Not only 60 scripture references but (as one theolgian counted) he quotes from 17 of 27 NT canon books. Even mentions Paul.


443 posted on 03/22/2014 6:32:22 PM PDT by redleghunter (For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”)
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To: Iscool
would that be the Catholic version or the readers digest edited KJV?? Doesn't matter...They both condemn your religion in numerous places which makes your claim quite hilarious...

let's see here, I write a book which condemns my religion..........why would I do that???

444 posted on 03/22/2014 7:07:43 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: Iscool
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats,

Catholics eat meat....we lve it, pork included (remember that the bible mentions not eating pork)....so when the church asks us to refrain from eating meat on ne day, it becomes a little penance that we endure to honor God by giving up something we like.....We forbid no one to marry except those of the same sex, and those who are already married....

445 posted on 03/22/2014 7:13:32 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: boatbums
Speak for yourself! I appreciate the reminder that many of the so-called Vicars of Christ

add up the number of years that these men were church leaders in the last 2,014 years of the church....a miniscule number to be sure.....these men were elected by other men, maybe personal freindship came into play, maybe a few of them were community organizers who lived in chicago, maybe some of the electors were misguided, as were many honest, sincere American citizens.....The Holy Spirit guides, He does not demand....you are always free to ignore God's calling and say "no"....men have done it forever.

446 posted on 03/22/2014 7:20:12 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: Elsie
Catholics would rather yell, "Look over there!!" and say something nasty about Luther.

as bad as they might have been, none of them EVER tried to change the teachings of Christ.......EVER.

447 posted on 03/22/2014 7:22:01 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: terycarl
let's see here, I write a book which condemns my religion..........why would I do that???

That's the point...The bible clearly wasn't written by any one in the Catholic religion...

The standard argument goes; The bible can't condemn the Catholic religion since the Catholic religion wrote the bible and it would be stupid to do that...

But the truth is; if one can read a newspaper and understand it, the same person can read the bible...

If your religion told you that you can not uderstand the daily newspaper without their interpretation, would you believe it???

448 posted on 03/22/2014 7:22:22 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: Elsie
Do you realize how silly this sounds?

it pales in silliness to your original post......really!!

449 posted on 03/22/2014 7:23:47 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
So he forgot to remind the disciples to submit to successors of Peter as the supreme infallible head, or even to make that a commendation or a remedy, which Paul and even the Lord failed to do in their letters to the various churches. Not very faithful RCs.
450 posted on 03/22/2014 7:26:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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