Why do many miss experiencing Jesus in our parishes? How can we change this?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 3/19/2014 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[don-o]

But Catholics don't worship statues anymore. Now we worship felt banners.

Did you steal that from Arthur?

[ADSUM]

Mary is the Mother of Jesus who was without sin.

Remember Jesus telling us: He said to them, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” John 8:7

So why are you casting stones at Mary or Catholics that have a religious loving reverence for the Mother of Jesus? Do you not hold your own mother in high regard as one that gave you life and nurtured you?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Here’s where the confusion comes in. Think of one gesture of honor: bowing, for instance. What’s forbidden is bowing in adoration; not bowing as a sign of honor or respect.

Can I show that Biblically? Sure. It permeates Old Testament culture.

I looked up “kneel(ing)” and “bow(ing)” in the good old BibleGateway Keyword Search, and found so many references it would be exhausting to list them all.

And these are all examples approved by God! Not one of them is condemned or reproved!

Genesis 23:7 Then Abraham rose and bowed down before the people of that land.

Genesis 33:3-7 Jacob bowed down to the ground seven times as he approached his brother Esau.

maidservants and their children bow down to Esau

Leah and her children bow down to honor humans

Joseph and Rachel bow for the same reason. Etc. etc!

Genesis 37 Joseph’s dreams: his brothers’ sheaves of corn -— and then the sun and moon and eleven stars —— bow down to him. Later his brothers actually do bow down to him with their faces to the ground

Genesis 48:11 Joseph bows to Jacob “with his face to the earth.”

1 Kings 1:15 Bathsheba bows low (face to the ground) and kneels before the aged king David

2 Kings 1:13 the captain "kneels" before the prophet Elijah, and “prays” —begs-— him to spare his life and the life of his 50 men

Moses bows down to father-in-law; Ruth bows down to Boaz;

David prostrates before Jonathan; and before Saul;

Abigail, Saul and Nathan prostrate to David;

Obadiah bows to the ground before Elijah;

the prophets in Jericho bow before Elisha;

the “whole assembly” bows low and prostrates before David;

David bows to the Temple;

David prostrates to Jerusalem;

God causes the king’s adversaries to bow prostrate on the ground and “lick the dust at his feet”;

God promises that the sons of the oppressors will bow to Zion.

OK, pretty obviously the patriarchs, prophets, and kings knew about the commandment not to bow down and worship anything or anybody but God. But here they are bowing, kneeling, and prostrating, and God is not offended. Why?

Because the commandment clearly forbids bowing and worshipping a creature as the Creator--- in other words, adoring; it does not forbid kneeling or bowing (to king, prophet, father, husband or brother) as a form of honor.

The commandment does not prohibit kneeling or bowing to give honor. It prohibits, specifically, adoration toward anyone but Almighty God.

Now here’s an interesting episode:

1 Kings 2:19
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.

Here’s the King bowing to his mother. Does that mean she’s equal to God? No. It doesn’t even mean she’s equal to the King. It means he’s pleased to honor her because of her royal dignity, her relationship as Queen Mother.

As our mindset gets further and further from traditional custom and culture, it gets harder and harder to grasp what was once the universal language of physical gesture (the salute, the tip of the hat, the bow, the genuflection, the handclasp, the curtsey, the kiss) and put each expression in its proper perspective.

That's a Biblical truth to ponder and appreciate. As I live, I appreciate it more and more.

[Mrs. Don-o]

No, it’s just something I picked up from bad companions on the street.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"To know Him is to love Him.... Jesus is the Word. Read the Bible and worship in truth and Spirit"

Amen! Thank you so much for writing that.

[WVKayaker]

Good to see you attending to your work... (but usually with your comrade-in-arms!)

[Mrs. Don-o]

Boanerges: that was a typo, as you can clearly see from the context.

It seems malicious for you to ignore the context and seize on this as if it were a deliberate vulgarity, of which no reasonable person would accuse our longtime courteous friend, campion.

But I will not impute malice to you,. I think you just did not read carefully. And probably you are not very familiar with campion.

But in the future, I would urge you to be just and charitable in your dealings. Do not jump to the worst possible conclusions. Give it a minute and think of a more innocent interpretation. Reach the conclusion: "It was a typo".

Just and charitable dealings. I would urge that on us all; I would urge it on myself.

[Mrs. Don-o]

That

was

not

meant

as

filler.

[Boanarges]

Does every tenet of your religion require such a tedious explanation and why do you bind yourself to a lawyer-esque tact of defending your Faith?

It is so simple, my friend. Put your Faith in Christ and his work on the cross, and free yourself from all that unnecessary gobble-dee-gook.

[verga]

It applies at least equally to you as well.

[verga]

Does every tenet of your religion require such a tedious explanation and why do you bind yourself to a lawyer-esque tact of defending your Faith?

No of course not, but protestants have demonstrated an inate ability to misunderstand anything that Catholics say and try to twist our words. As evidenced by you recent foray over a simple spelling error.

[Buckeye McFrog]

IMO, it’s often because we’ve become too focused on the minutiae of the rituals, and not the big-picture message.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"It is so simple, my friend. Put your Faith in Christ and his work on the cross, and free yourself from all that unnecessary gobble-dee-gook."

I agree with that part, my friend. In all sincerity.

I'm the President of the Marian Rosary League Against Unnecessary Gobble-dee-gook.

As for the tedious lawyer-like explanation, this becomes necessary only because of tedious thousandfold objections which ignore the obvious.

If I had a nickel for every time a person on this honorable FR Religion Forum repeated the same dumb objections to simple, normal, God-pleasing Catholic practices, I would buy--- why --- my goodness, I could buy... hmm... a glass of beer.

Or two! One to share with you, my dear Boanerges.

[al_c]

Or an even more simple comparison ... an airliner has a pilot and a co-pilot, but only one is in charge ... the pilot. The co-pilot is there to assist the pilot.

[showme_the_Glory]

Religion, Ritual, get rid of it. Get Faith in Jesus, it’s the only way.

[Ted Grant]

This could be fixed if pastors and priests actually started doing their jobs and preaching/explaining the scripture, rather than channel their inner stand-up comedian during homilies.

[Ted Grant]

Heres a thought,,worship Jesus not Mary and the saints

That's not it.

[Boanarges]

We could share inordinate time and 10 beers and I would never comprehend Catholic Logos.

[Salvation]

**,,worship Jesus**

Exactly what Catholics do along with worshipping God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

We honor Mary and the saints.

Do you honor your mother and your father, hopefully?

Same thing.

[faucetman]

“Peter makes it clear that he has the power of Christ in his possession”

As do we (saints), all. What we lack is sufficient faith.