Posted on 04/09/2014 9:44:02 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
No. But Cincinnati.
>>>1.1 million people? Don’t think so, Rome was the largest city in the world at that time but only had a population of roughly a million.<<<
I don’t recall all the details, but I believe there was some sort of major festival being held in Jerusalem that brought people in from all nations. Anyway, Josephus said 1.1 million were killed, and 90,000 were enslaved. Who are we to argue with him?
Philip
>>>Can you explain this “civil War” a bit?<<<
Josephus wrote about it, extensively. The civil war began long before the siege. Eventually the city was divided into three parts (Rev 16:19) by three warring factions (Josephus, Wars V.1.1.) They burnt up each others food supplies, resulting in a horrendous famine, starvation and cannibalism (Deu 28:52-53.) I seem to recall that many Jews were killed by their own countrymen when they tried to leave the city.
Philip
Wasn’t it John and his band of bandits that were robbing and killing people and not a civil war?
>>>There is at least one city which is arguably ‘on seven mountains’. That is Mecca, which is certainly a wicked city that has filled the world with poison.<<<
Ancient Jerusalem also sat on seven mountains; or at least there were seven mountains within it’s confines: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, Mt. Moriah, Mt. Acra, and Mt. Bezetha.
Philip
>>>I think it could mean the US, or perhaps western civilization in general.<<<
Ask yourself, how many prophets were killed in the U.S., or in or by the hand of the Vatican, and you realize that none of the prophecy fits the U.S. or the Vatican: only Jerusalem.
Philip
I consider it “spiritual” Babylon.
>>>The Lord warns us if he did not intervene we would not exist.<<<
But God did intervene 2000 years ago when he sent his Son to save the world. The pure river of water of life, that began on the day of Pentecost, has permeated the entire world. It is the giant herb that came from the smallest of seeds.
Things sometimes look bleak, now that Satan has been released and has had time to deceive the nations. But his days are numbered.
Philip
Jerusalem is the head of the secular state of the Jewish people, and has little - if anything - in common with the nation of Israel which was destroyed in 70 AD. There is no Temple, no Sanhedrin, no unity in worship, they are not traceable to the 12 tribes, no identity I can see as a people of G-d. Still, it is amazing that they exist at all.
Some scriptural support for your opinions would be helpful. For example, the "seven mountains" which the woman sits upon, also represent the beast, which carrieth the woman:
"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." (Rev 17:9-10 KJV)
"And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. " (Rev 17:7 KJV)
In the Revelation the beast (Roman Empire) supported (carried) the woman (Jerusalem.) In real life the Roman Empire allowed Jerusalem to be mostly autonomous, even keeping most of her own laws; that is until Jerusalem rebelled. Then the "ten horns of the beast" destroyed Jerusalem and made her desolate.
I haven't fully researched the ten horns; but they appear to be either the governors of ten Roman provinces, or ten Roman legions. I lean toward the legions since they actually destroyed Jerusalem and made her desolate. There are others who believe they represent the ten provinces from which the legions were sent. Either choice is suitable for fulfillment.
BTW, heavenly New Jerusalem, which is also called the Church, sits on the mountain of God, which is called mount Sion. This is the best reference:
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant…" (Heb 12:22-24 KJV)
It is the same as this one in the old testament:
"But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." (Mic 4:1-2 KJV)
It is always important to understand that the throne of the Lord is in heaven, as David explained in multiple ways, with this one the most to the point:
"The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven . . ." (Ps 11:4 KJV)
As mentioned in the original post, Ezekiel 16:55 is an important prophecy regarding the future of earthly Jerusalem.
Philip
That is the traditional chrstian position. However, it works only if chrstianity is true. This is an untested assumption for most chrstians who believe what they do because their "bible" or their church tell them to.
There is no Temple, no Sanhedrin,
There are sanhedria (battei din) all over the world, though Judaism is very fractured at present. The Beit Din HaGadol (Great Sanhedrion) will be restored in the future.
no unity in worship,
It takes some 'ovnayim for any chrstian to accuse another religion of not having "unity in worship!" So . . . are you Catholic or "church of chr*st?"
they are not traceable to the 12 tribes,
So who are they traceable from? The "Khazars," I suppose?
I find that most chrstians who maintain that the Jews can't trace their ancestry back to the Twelve Tribes are the same people who claim every Jew is lineally descended from the "evil" Jews of the "new testament" and are therefore guilty of "deicide."
no identity I can see as a people of G-d.
You hold this opinion because of your dogmatic beliefs. Your dogmatic beliefs are not necessarily true.
Still, it is amazing that they exist at all.
I'm sure it's all just a big, meaningless coincidence. Y'know, like the existence of the universe and everything.
While we are at it, think about it this way: the beast made war with the saints for forty and two months, the same length of time Nero was persecuting the early Christians. Nero also had power over "all kindreds, tongues and nations," since the Roman Empire was considered to be "all the world" in those days:
"And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Rev 13:7-8 KJV)
"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." (Rev 13:5 KJV)
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." (Luke 2:1 KJV)
Jesus Christ's prophecy that the gospel must be preached in all the world was fulfilled in those days, in both ways he instructed:
"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14 KJV)
"And [Jesus] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15 KJV)
"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)
"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)
Those are a lot of coincidences.
Philip
Ancient Jerusalem was built on ONE hill. Ir David sat on one hill only. In Hezekiah’s time it expanded to TWO hills. Not until the modern era did Jerusalem move beyond those TWO hills.
There is a Sandedrin, and there will be a Third Temple. But when that happens Praeterists will come with a new excuse.
“I’m sure it’s all just a big, meaningless coincidence.”
I don’t think he meant it was a coincidence, more like it was somewhat miraculous that the Jewish people had survived so long without a homeland, since very few other nations survived in such a position.
Whose definition of 'completely destroyed' are you using?
Christ said that Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, "see ye not all these things? (verse 1 'buildings of the temple) verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
This word 'thrown' is a companion to the word translated in the English 'foundation' of the world by Christ and Paul. Thrown is kinship word to the katabole/kataballo overthrow/casting down. That Roman general did not cast down all stones that existed then of temple in the days Christ walked this earth, many of then still sit one atop another yet today. It is yet to happen and thus Matthew 24:2, Mark 13:2 and Luke 21:6 have not happened.
Praeterists don’t need an excuse - we just believe what the Bible says. I cannot understand why folks who claim to be literalists on everything else do not believe Jesus when He says the present generation will see it all. And Josephus has documented everything which Jesus predicted.
The word Babylon means confusion. God is not the author of confusion. Harlotry can be physical or spiritual.
Those are a lot of coincidences.
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