Posted on 04/24/2014 1:48:53 PM PDT by NYer
After yesterday’s media confusion about a phone call Pope Francis made to a woman in Argentina regarding her reception of Communion, Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi today made a statement confirming that the phone call did take place, but indicating that reports about what was said may not be reliable and have no bearing on Church teaching.
It has been widely reported that Pope Francis called Jaquelina Lisbona of San Lorenzo, Argentina on Easter Monday in response to a letter she sent him last fall. The Holy Father allegedly told her that she may receive Communion despite being married to a man who is divorced.
Today Father Lombardi stated:
Several telephone calls have taken place in the context of Pope Francis’ personal pastoral relationships.
Since they do not in any way form part of the Pope's public activities, no information or comments are to be expected from the Holy See Press Office.
That which has been communicated in relation to this matter, outside the scope of personal relationships, and the consequent media amplification, cannot be confirmed as reliable, and is a source of misunderstanding and confusion.
Therefore, consequences relating to the teaching of the Church are not to be inferred from these occurrences.
Meanwhile, Catholic News Agency has more information on the situation, including details about the couple in question and quotes from a local priest, who called the suggestion that the Pope had given permission for Lisbona to receive Communion “absurd.”
[Julio Sabetta, Lisbona’s husband] was married into the Catholic church in 1985, but got legally divorced in 1992. In 1994, he was re-introduced to Jaquelina – they had been boyfriend and girlfriend in their teens – and the two started to live together in a civil union. Since then, they had two children, Candela and Josefina, aged 17 and 14, respectively.
Six years ago, during Candela's preparation for her confirmation – both daughters have been baptized, received first Holy Communion and have been confirmed – the local pastor at that time, who has been erroneously described as having left the priesthood by some news sources, told Jaquelina that she could not receive Communion because of her marital status.
Last September, encouraged by a friend, she decided to write Pope Francis about her situation and her desire to receive Communion.
The story of the Pope's “permission” to Jaquelina to receive Communion was first posted on Monday evening by Sabetta on his Facebook Page when he wrote: “Today one of the most beautiful things happened to me since the birth of my two daughters, I got a call in my home from none other than Pope Francis, it was a big emotion, we cannot figure it out yet, this call was originated by my wife who sent him a letter and he took his time to call her and talk to her and I can assure you that we he talks, he gives you total peace. Thanks God for this blessing!” …
What the Pope exactly told Jaquelina is a matter of controversy. Speaking to La Red, Jaquelina said that after talking for about ten minutes with the Pope, he allegedly told her that there are some priests that are “more Papist than the Pope” and that she should “go to confession and start taking communion at a different parish.”
In a second interview, overwhelmed by the international attention and the phone calls from around the world, she confirmed that she received “permission” to receive Communion by the Pope, but she complained: “this was supposed to be discrete, now I don't think I will be able to go anywhere now.”
Since Wednesday, Jaquelina has not been available for comments. …
Sabetta instead has been happy to respond to the press. According to his version: “Francisco told my wife that she was free from all sin, that she should go to communion, that she should go with peace of mind, since a divorced who goes (to Communion) is doing nothing wrong.”
“He only told her to go to communion to another parish to avoid frictions (with the pastor.)”
But the pastor of San Lorenzo's church, Fr. José Ceschi, said late on Wednesday that the alleged “permission” to receive communion given by the Pope is “absurd.”
Speaking to local radio station La Ocho, Fr. Ceschi said that “first of all, I am very happy to know that the Pope called someone in San Lorenzo, the Pope surprises with these calls and people is so surprised, and that makes me happy. I do believe in the call, but what is hard to believe is that he gave her permission to go to communion.”
“The Pope would never do that, is impossible. If he is coming from a previous sacrament and they are living together is absolutely impossible,” Fr. Ceschi told the radio station.
“What happens is that the Pope, like all bishops and priests, needs to be father, mother and teacher, always with an open heart, while telling things as they are.”
Speaking of his predecessor, who told Jaquelina that she could not receive communion, the priest noted that “Fr. Sergio was right, if a previous sacrament of marriage is involved, the Church cannot go beyond what Jesus has taught.” …
“Again, I believe that the call happened, I just don't believe the Pope would go over the head of the (local) bishop – it is absurd,” he reiterated.
It is mindboggling how your religion got you guys to believe what they claim is true and somehow successfully convinced you to ignore what God says in the scriptures...
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
That is some powerful stuff right there...You guys need to let that sink in...It doesn't matter how many good works you do if you don't have the Spirit dwelling in you...
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
If the Holy Spirit does not dwell in the body of a Catholic, that Catholic will not be raised as Jesus was raised...That person doesn't go to heaven, or purgatory...
For your sakes people, learn some bible...
Lots of hypotheticals you throw out there about others.
Try dealing with facts about what someone believes for a change, instead of all the strawmen you build about them.
Sure it is. Because the discussion was for the need of the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture, but you made it about me.
again.....
Two or three is two or three.
Doesn’t matter what office they hold in the church.
The Holy Spirit speaks to believers all the time.
Anyone who doesn’t hear from Him needs to take a good hard look at his life.
And how to know if it’s the Holy Spirit? He will not contradict Scripture and He will lift up Jesus. He does not point to Himself, which is what the problem with the Pentecostal movement is. Too much emphasis on things not Jesus.
First I need to say you misunderstand my use of charity and humility. You apparently think I understood them as works, which I do not. They are virtues; behaviors observable in a person to see the Spirit in a person. They are not works, but they are gifts of the Holy Spirit and evidence when He is there. Are saying a person can be a total jerk and still have the Spirit in him?
And anyway, the verses you picked out actually proved my point. When two or more bishops get together, He is among them. The thing they have that the average person does not is the teaching office of the Church. When bishops get together, the Spirit promotes authentic teaching that is not available to just any group of Christians that get together.
Were that not so, then how could there be any fractioning of the Church with regard to teaching? If the same Holy Spirit were guiding every small group of Christians that came together, then all would come up with the same teaching on their own. The fact that this does not happen means some group is getting it right and another is getting it wrong. Some group is not getting the teaching direct from the Holy Spirit. All the rest is just figuring out which group has it right.
Notice that proponents of Sola Scriptura, when pressed a bit, admit that it’s no such thing as Sola Scriptura, and they don’t like their admission one bit.
Notice that no Catholic understands, or will accept a non-Catholic’s definition of sola Scriptura, no matter how many times it is explained to them.
Catholics just love tilting at windmills.
*It is written...* is all we need to know and being the divinely inspired word of God, is inherently authoritative, not needing any one’s stamp of approval to make it so.
As such, it is reliable and adequate to THOROUGHLY equip the man of God. It is sufficient to bring us to salvation and maturity in our walk with Christ.
Which it is not. Your premise is false and therefore your conclusions.
It interesting to me that often we give the very advice we need most to hear ourselves.
My post was: If you think disagreeing with you is disagreeing with either.. then you think you’re God.
So, the conflation is either there or not. If I disagree with you am I disagreeing with God or his Word?
If not, then it's not about you.
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And (of course) no one is saying that Jesus did intend communion "to be a time of self-flagellation and condemnation" (other than your post there, PapaNew).
Like Paul clearly says, we (the human communion particpants) decide whether we will receive communion in a worthy or unworthy manner, and thus whether we will bring damnation on ourselves or not because of our own choices.
God gives all of us free will.
You can choose to use the tongue God gave you to tell the truth and praise God, or you can choose to use the tongue God gave you in ways God did not intend your tongue to be used, such as to lie and curse God. You have free will to decide how to use your tongue -- in a worthy or unworthy manner.
You can choose to use the arms God gave you to lovingly embrace a dying person, or you can choose to use the arms God gave you in ways God did not intend your arms to be used, such as to fly a plane into the World Trade Center. You have free will to decide how to use your arms -- in a worthy or unworthy manner.
Paul's advice to the Corinthians was not just written for some drunken Corinthians, otherwise the Holy Spirit would not have inspired and guided the Church to include that advice in the Bible for the benefit of the rest of us. That advice was also meant for you and me, and it is NOT limited to merely drunken misuse of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, but plainly applies (as Paul clearly says) to ANY form of receiving communion in an unworthy manner.
Anyone can choose to misuse that beautiful Eucharistic communion gift from God if they choose to, just like they can choose to misuse every other gift God has given them, but it is not a wise choice to make.
1) Many churches DO turn communion into a depressing self-examination rather than a remembrance of Jesus. I was in one. At some point I avoided taking communion there because I would leave worse than I arrived (actually after about 15 years, I finally left that church altogether which was a good thing). I now take communion every day, using Jesus' own words and declaring the efficacy of his body and blood in my life. I have noticed wonderful changes since I started doing this - I believe Jesus meant it to be blessing in our lives.
2) The context of the Corinthians was one of correction, and we can use it to help us highly value the meaning and efficacy of His broken body on the cross for us. But communion was instituted by the Lord Himself. We should focus on HIS words for communion which is about his body broken so we can be whole and his blood shed so we are now redeemed from the curse. THAT should be our focus because Jesus was the one to give us that focus - one of redemption. IMO, some churches have allowed the devil to turn what is meant to be a blessing into a kind of condemning curse. If the correction applies, fine, but otherwise focus on the Lord, not on yourself.
When you focus on the Lord, you're blessed. When you focus on yourself, you're stressed and depressed.
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Well, may God abundantly bless you, PapaNew.
I will pray that God guides you into all truth, and I ask you to pray that for me also.
(If you don't mind my asking, can you tell me what denomination you belong to? I was under the vague impression that only the Catholic Church and certain Orthodox monasteries offered any kind of daily communion service.)
I'm a Christan who is filled with Holy Spirit and the grace of Jesus. We are long-distance members of Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church and Joseph Prince is a co-pastor of ours.
Those verses are not directed to Bishops...They are directed to people just like you and me...'If you do not have the Holy Spirit within you, you are none of His'...Simple as that...
You seem correct to me.
God probably knows better than to trust individuals to explicate His Will, so logic dictates some kind of collective authority to determine the outer boundaries of what He finds acceptable.
BTW, it’s very bad form not to ping FReepers you mention.
God does not give us free will.
We are slaves to sin. We have a will, it is true, but it is far from free.
He does, however, give us a choice. But that is not the same thing as free will.
If you despise the rules of the Catholic Church, then you despise the Body of Christ.
This truth, that the Church is the mystical body of Christ, all its members being guided and directed by Christ the head, is set forth by St. Paul in various passages, more especially in Ephesians 4:4-13 (cf. John 15:5-8).
The rules of Church follows the teaching of Jesus and helps us try to live as Jesus has said that we should.
Who appointed you as the authority to interpret the rules that Jesus wants us to follow or for that matter the interpretation of the Bible?
Trust in God and let HIM lead you.
Despising what one does is not the same thing as despising the person.
Who appointed you as the authority to interpret the rules that Jesus wants us to follow or for that matter the interpretation of the Bible?
"If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:31-32).
"But the anointing which you have received of him abides in you, and you need not that any man teach you" (1 John 2:27).
Trust in God and let HIM lead you
Thank you. Doing that by His grace. My prayer for you too.
Oh, nonsense.
The body of Christ is all believers irrespective of denominational affiliations.
Despising the rules of the Catholic church is simply despising the rules of the Catholic church, an organization that makes getting to God WAAYYYY too hard.
Jesus had no use for all the additions the Pharisees added to the Law.
The body of Christ is an organism, not an organization.
Anyone can hang a plaque outside a building and call it a church but that doesn't make it one.
And considering the history of Catholicism, it's a laugh to think that THAT is the body of Christ. I can't and don't believe that God would allow that kind of immorality and corruption to go unchecked for so many centuries in His body.
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