Posted on 06/02/2014 3:21:30 PM PDT by NYer
>> “If Jesus were to ask you to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. Would you?” <<
Yeshua asked that we celebrate the Kiddush, an ancient Hebrew tradition born when the pre-incarnate son broke bread and drank wine with Abraham, while blessing the Father, creator of the universe, who brings forth bread and wine from the Earth.
He asked that we do it every time we break bread and drink the wine, in REMEMBRANCE of him.
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“Then prove the facts wrong!”
Ha!!!
You made TWO truth claims.
You have to demonstrate they are true, using facts, evidence and logic.
If You do not support your claims, which I categorically reject, then they will remain simply your opinions.
Let’s be frank and save you time. They are simply your deeply held opinions, not facts.
Best
If it takes people saying really stupid things to make Catholics look smarter, then Catholics do not have much to brag on intellectually.
Catholic thinking being better than *really stupid* isn't saying much.
Don't RC's have something better to offer than not being *really stupid*?
Still waiting, eh?
Salvation by grace – believing
How do you reconcile those two verses in James with the weight of so much other Scripture that teaches otherwise?
Does Scripture contradict itself?
John 1:10-13 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:14-18 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 2:1-10And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
But when you put on the demand of works, you do put limits on what Christ can do.
FoF:BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's EXACTLY what Scripture says.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Why do you keep ignoring the plain clear teaching of Scripture?
Matthew 15:18 'And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
Matthew 16:18 'And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
That is the purpose of works. Just to do them. Not for them to acquire salvation for us.
Our faith is what overcomes the world, not our works.
1 John 5:1-5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Yup, you're right. Haters gotta hate. As is clearly evidence in your Prod hating post.
A point blindingly obvious to those not deceived.
Someone joins the Catholic church by grace and then works follow. Or does the Catholic church demand that you work your way into it?
WE can't do anything to prepare to meet Him in heaven. We do not begin with faith and finish by works (Galatians 3) and it is HIM who works in us to will and to do according to His good pleasure. (Philippians 2:13)
You just totally contradicted yourself here.
You say first that we are saved freely by grace and then go on to say that we are not saved by grace. Which is it?
And grace is not grace if it is earned, it is wages due. In which case, being saved in Catholicism is by wages due for works performed, not by grace.
You just totally contradicted yourself here.
You say first that we are saved freely by grace and then go on to say that we are not saved by grace. Which is it?
And grace is not grace if it is earned, it is wages due. In which case, being saved in Catholicism is by wages due for works performed, not by grace.
It can only be by grace if it's through faith. If it's through works, it isn't grace.
Yes.
Can you lose your salvation by your actions or bad works?
No because we are not saved by faith and kept by works. (Galatians 3)
How do you grow your faith and love of God and neighbor without works (actions)?
Through Bible reading, study, and prayer.
How does God judge your faith?
Who ever said our faith is being judged? It's our works which are judged, not our faith.
Consider that without works (actions, prayers, etc) your faith grows stale and perhaps God’s judgement determines that there is not enough faith.
God never tells anyone that their faith wasn't enough. If we have faith the size of a mustard seed, Jesus told us we can move mountains. It's not the size of our faith that saves us or heals us or anything, but rather the size of the God we put our faith in. That's why even a *small* faith, or weak faith, can still produce great things. Faith is merely the activating factor. The power is in the omnipotent God we serve. It's HIS power that is what makes things work, not anything on our part.
Doing good works is not about boasting about them, but rather making things better. We should be encouraging more good works and solving problems.
But if works contributed to salvation, then there would be boasting about them. *See what I did for you God? You owe me now.* Exactly why works don't contribute to one's salvation.
All they are is a testimony of the saving faith and work of grace that God has worked in our hearts.
The Apostle John was about as prepared as anyone could hope to be yet when he saw Jesus on Patmos he "...fell at his feet as dead"
Our work is to believe!
Nonsense....
Security of believer
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
So What happened to all those things passed on by word of mouth? You just ignore them, even though Scripture puts oral tradition on the same level as written word. The letters became Scripture. The Oral tradition is in the Church.
You deny Scripture.
Just what are those traditions Paul was referring to that he handed down that we are to keep that were not included in Scripture?
How do you know?
How do you know they’re from the apostles, Paul in particular?
How do you know they’ve been passed down faithfully?
What is your source for verifying all of the above?
Please provide the sources for verification purposes.
What is your degree in, where did you earn it?
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