Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Catholic and libertarian? Pope’s top adviser says they’re incompatible
The Washington Post ^ | June 4, 2014 | David Gibson

Posted on 06/04/2014 7:58:25 AM PDT by Biggirl

WASHINGTON — Taking direct aim at libertarian policies promoted by many American conservatives, the Honduran cardinal who is one of Pope Francis’ top advisers said Tuesday (June 3) that today’s free market system is “a new idol” that is increasing inequality and excluding the poor.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: economy; libertarian; pope
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last

1 posted on 06/04/2014 7:58:25 AM PDT by Biggirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Funny no criticism of libertarian social policy. Tells you where their priorities are.


2 posted on 06/04/2014 8:01:11 AM PDT by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Anyone still think this guy isn’t a communist?


3 posted on 06/04/2014 8:01:35 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Critical thinking and the Church hierarchy are incompatible.

This is news?


4 posted on 06/04/2014 8:03:33 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Just a reminder of despite being a Catholic feel lucky this country was colonized at the beginning mainly by Protestants.


5 posted on 06/04/2014 8:03:47 AM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Capitalism has uplifted many millions of people from poverty and slavery. What exactly has socialism and statism ever accomplished?

As a Catholic, my blood boils when I hear this type of crap coming from Church leaders.


6 posted on 06/04/2014 8:04:30 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
Despite coming from a country whose socialist / command directed / wealth redistribution economy is second only to Venezuela in creating poverty, the Pope still thinks that such policies are the answer.
7 posted on 06/04/2014 8:05:00 AM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

“today’s free market system is “a new idol” that is increasing inequality and excluding the poor.”

If that is the case then they shouldn’t want any money made through the free market system. Remember that when they ask for money.


8 posted on 06/04/2014 8:05:40 AM PDT by detective
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

I guess he must have confused the free market with our system of crony capitalism.


9 posted on 06/04/2014 8:06:51 AM PDT by Cato in PA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I don’t understand how Francis being from Argentina it escapes him that statism/facsism whatever you call it caused Argentina to fall from one of the richest countries in the world around 1900 on par with the US and the European economic powerhouses to a economic basket case. Now you have this prelate from Honduras not exactly a hallmark of Angloshpere political-economic institutions


10 posted on 06/04/2014 8:07:21 AM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

On economic and political matters, the previous couple of popes were weaned on the struggle against communism in Europe. Francis, however, seems to be an Argentine populist. Quite a reversal.


11 posted on 06/04/2014 8:08:04 AM PDT by sphinx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

I’ll not be lectured about the morality of my political views by an organization that covered up it’s buggering of little kids for decades.


12 posted on 06/04/2014 8:08:39 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Luckily, I never aspired to be Pope!


13 posted on 06/04/2014 8:09:12 AM PDT by headsonpikes (Mass murder and cannibalism are the twin sacraments of socialism - "Who-whom?"-Lenin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

One of the gifts God gave us was free will, and a free market is a manifestation of that. To dismiss that is to say that individuals cannot and should not be trusted to make their own decisions. Collectivism runs contrary to God.

Like most liberals, this guy sounds like he’s shifted his faith from God to government.


14 posted on 06/04/2014 8:09:49 AM PDT by LostInBayport (When there are more people riding in the cart than there are pulling it, the cart stops moving...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Good question. It might be a cultural thing. I’m a Catholic, but I have a good healthy respect for the Protestant work ethic. The Catholic Church is a gigantic bureaucracy with massive power concentrated at the top, just the type of government we conservatives oppose. The Democrat Party is this country also heavily Catholic.


15 posted on 06/04/2014 8:16:02 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Max Weber wrote a book about that, :)


16 posted on 06/04/2014 8:18:28 AM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

And the church-blessed feudalism was so much more compassionate to the poor during that 600 year golden age called The Dark Ages.

Protestant developed capitalism has done more to ease poverty in this world than anything popes have done.

And I’m not a Protestant.


17 posted on 06/04/2014 8:21:53 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

And teachers haven’t?

Priests are way down on the list after

family members
teachers
coaches
ministers

So if your child has a family member who teaches mid high or high school subjects, coaches the girl’s ———— team and is the Youth Minister at the non-Catholic Church — watch out.

As I said above...priests are way down at the bottom of that list.


18 posted on 06/04/2014 8:22:10 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

This Pope is a Socialist. It’s sad, but he is very misguided if he thinks he can judge capitalism by Argentinean standards.

Sad.

I had hope for this pope but he is quite a dope.

m


19 posted on 06/04/2014 8:22:37 AM PDT by panzerkamphwageneinz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Confusing means, with ends.

Robust capitalism, with robust PRIVATE charity, with robust faith, is about as close to utopia as we can hope to get on this sinful earth.


20 posted on 06/04/2014 8:28:31 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

Good... how about letting Christ do it instead of “an organization”?


21 posted on 06/04/2014 8:29:50 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: muir_redwoods

European was developing capitalism way before the Protestant Reformation. One can cite such developments as double entry bookkeeping, letters of exchange and other forms of credit, modern banking, for example, the Medici and Fuggers. The most capitalistic place in Europe could of be Northern Italy and the remained Catholic post-Reformation.


22 posted on 06/04/2014 8:30:10 AM PDT by C19fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: panzerkamphwageneinz

Argentina might be a warning of what capitalism sans faith will look like.

Capitalism can live arm in arm with faith and private charity. That way we can affirm that the worker is worth his wages, and that we put our hope in the fullness of God, and that we carry out His works of love and mercy. These principles are in tension but not bluntly contradictory. Without an orderly market, how do you hope to have something to help the poor with?


23 posted on 06/04/2014 8:32:22 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

Whether or not they want to admit it, the various segments of the church have proved God’s opportunities for influencing the other segments to the good. Splits grieve God, but they don’t stop His plan. He already planned for this situation.


24 posted on 06/04/2014 8:34:48 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Like drilling a hole in your life boat because it’s not a space ship.


25 posted on 06/04/2014 8:35:37 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
he said, solidarity with the poor, as envisioned by Catholic social teaching, calls for “dealing with the structural causes of poverty and injustice.”

Quite correct - and those causes are the shackling of the creative potential of the world's people by statism.

26 posted on 06/04/2014 8:37:39 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: C19fan

This is a fruits vs. roots issue. Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Ford etc showed what capitalism can do.


27 posted on 06/04/2014 8:38:12 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon
Funny no criticism of libertarian social policy.

I know. When I saw the headline I assumed that was the argument that he was going to make. But if all he talked about was the fiscal angle - he's basically showing that he's a closet commie (or not so closeted), and he believes Big Government should exist to confiscate and redistribute wealth. In other words he wants to turn Big Government into a god.

28 posted on 06/04/2014 8:43:51 AM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NavVet
Not that it matters much, but he is from Argentina, not Venezuela.
29 posted on 06/04/2014 8:48:57 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NavVet

Forgive my post to you. I must learn to read. You had it right.


30 posted on 06/04/2014 8:50:04 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

source?


31 posted on 06/04/2014 8:51:48 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex-Mormon, now Christian. I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: panzerkamphwageneinz

I cringed when I heard Jesuit and Argentina. I hoped I was wrong, but history serves.


32 posted on 06/04/2014 8:52:16 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

That’s right...priests are way down on the list so that makes it okay! Oooh, look...something shiny!


33 posted on 06/04/2014 8:58:30 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Christ wasn’t diddling little boys, so I agree he is better qualified.


34 posted on 06/04/2014 9:00:25 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

As a Catholic, I always feel very lucky that nothing the Pope says in this area can ever be considered infallible, because, IMHO, it’s always very fallible.


35 posted on 06/04/2014 9:01:40 AM PDT by alphadoggie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
Taking direct aim at libertarian policies promoted by many American conservatives, the Honduran cardinal who is one of Pope Francis’ top advisers said Tuesday (June 3) that today’s free market system is “a new idol” that is increasing inequality and excluding the poor.

Statist-coerced - as opposed to private-charitable - redistribution of wealth is a Catholic ideal?

36 posted on 06/04/2014 9:01:46 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut


37 posted on 06/04/2014 9:01:46 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: reaganaut

‘Passing the trash’


Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.

“They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated,” says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.

It’s a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames—“passing the trash” or the “mobile molester.”

Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there’s no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.

School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don’t want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don’t want to face a challenge from a strong union.

 


38 posted on 06/04/2014 9:03:14 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

I’m not Catholic and I’m not libertarian. But what the Cardinal is talking about here is neither Catholic NOR libertarian.

He is just parrotting the Pope’s redistrubtion message which - as I say - is not a true Catholic or libertarian agenda.

It Socialism. And the muckety-mucks in Rome had better shut up.


39 posted on 06/04/2014 9:07:51 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

It may be incompatible with libertarians, but obviously not Socialism, other wise why would 52 percent of them vote for Obama?

There are to points that make me beware of libertarians, that is their view that the Government should not interfere with gay marriage and that a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body.

I believe any one should have the right to do what they want with their body but not another body, which is the baby.

I have no problem with the rest of the libertarian view that I am familiar with.


40 posted on 06/04/2014 9:16:01 AM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart

“Libertarian” and “Communist” aren’t the only two choices.


41 posted on 06/04/2014 10:04:07 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Takes one to know one, and vice versa.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

True. There’s socialist, antichrist and a few others.


42 posted on 06/04/2014 10:05:05 AM PDT by Norm Lenhart (How's that 'lesser evil' workin' out for ya?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

But again, why do such subjects capture your mind?


43 posted on 06/04/2014 10:41:22 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Norm Lenhart
RINO, FReeper, anarchist, anarcho-syndicalist, personalist, distributist, populiat, paleo-conservative, fascist, republican, neocon, theocon, paleocon, Neoliberalism, Ordoliberalism, anarcho-capitalist, anarcho-monarchist, tory, whig, Paleoliberalism, Radical centrism, Radical, socialist labor.

I for instance just answered a bunch of questions (Pew research's quiz on political typology) and found out I'm a "Disaffected" --- along with 11% of the general public.

44 posted on 06/04/2014 10:42:17 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Takes one to know one, and vice versa.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Seriously...? 2 calories spent making a post does not equal “mind capture.” It’s the internet. Posts about cats probably have more sway with me than anything some club has to say about anything.


45 posted on 06/04/2014 10:44:48 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog

You doubled down on it.


46 posted on 06/04/2014 10:50:53 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

And you keep coming back for more and accusing me of being fixated.


47 posted on 06/04/2014 10:53:42 AM PDT by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Liberation theology has permeated the catholic church for some.time.

Remember the catholics.are.some.of the strongest proponents of socialized.medicine.


48 posted on 06/04/2014 11:49:52 AM PDT by what's up (sun)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cato in PA
Well, that brings up a legitimate question. Is he talking against there being widespread opportunities for private enterprise? or is he talking against state-tit sucking crony capitalism, bailout capitalism, what many FReepers call "banksterism"?

My guess is that we'd have to answer that question in order to evaluate what he's saying.

Without definitions, we're just expounding vehemently on nothing in particular.

49 posted on 06/04/2014 12:37:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

“Without definitions, we’re just expounding vehemently on nothing in particular.”

Very true. So many people think that the mercantilist system we have now, an oligarchy of business and government, is correctly termed “capitalism” or a free market.

Eisenhower was almost right. However, instead of a “military industrial complex” we have a government/commerce complex.

That system can be justly criticized on a number of grounds; however, calling it “capitalism” leaves only one avenue of escape—leftism, and the slavery that inevitably follows.

We should see two avenues of escape, both the false one of socialism and the true one of capitalism and a free market.


50 posted on 06/04/2014 1:10:40 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-66 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson