Posted on 06/18/2014 7:20:48 PM PDT by ebb tide
Really. One of the most pathetic and baseless ongoing rants I’ve seen at FR. I’m an agnostic on creationism vs intelligent design. That doesn’t make me an excommunicated Catholic.
Apparently HaShem is once again confusing languages.
I'm saying that people who claim "Zionism" is in league with Freemasonry, "international banking," dirty magazines, or is anything in the world other than a nineteenth century secular European nationalist movement is EVIL and probably `Amaleq, the accursed nation that is to be destroyed.
In case you haven't noticed, I've supported conservative, pre-VII Catholics on this forum. I've defended them when their post-VII co-religionists literally had them banned. I do not object to Catholicism, or any religion, believing it is the only one. I do not object to Catholics, or members of any other religion, believing that everyone but them goes to hell. None of that bothers me. The only thing that bothers me is the classification of the Biblical Chosen People as now somehow "evil," of their nationalism as evil, or their restoration to their ancient Biblical homeland as evil.
Why is that necessary? You could believe Judaism is (G-d forbid!) "superseded" without saying it is now evil. You could believe that a Jewish State in 'Eretz Yisra'el is an anachronism without saying its purpose is to be the (lehavdil!) "Vatican" of the New World Order. You could subscribe to any conspiracy theory you wanted to. But why bring the Jews into it? For someone who grew up on the "old testament" instead tales of medieval European chrstendom that's just insane.
Right wing Catholics believe hinduism is a false religion but they don't believe hindus are conspiring to rule the world. What makes the one and only Biblically authorized and elucidated religion such an abomination to you folks?
Would someone--anyone--explain to me this obsession with one and only one "false religion," the ascribing to it of all sorts of sinister power? And most of all, why the Biblical religion was chosen to play this role?
I know . . . you don't understand this either.
You spend your time focusing on the extreme position of certain Catholics and expect those of us who do not feel that way to explain it for you.
Cut it out.
Please do expound on this though. Why would pre-VII Catholics get banned by post VII Catholics?
Seeing as how your Church won't admit anyone who doesn't believe in evolution
Oh come on now. Enough with this. Even I would never say that the Vatican II Church believes this.
Please just stop.
Now you listen to me.
I converted to your church some thirty years ago. I tried to remain loyal despite the fact that every Catholic newspaper, magazine, and brochure spent all its time attacking "Biblical literalism" as the ultimate antithesis of everything Catholic--worse than abortion, worse than "Freemasonry," worse than anything.
While I was far from home at a left-wing graduate school where the Bible (and even the "new testament") was being torn to shreds I turned to "my" church for help. And all I got was told to leave. That's right. The "denominational counselor" at the university where I was studying told me I should not be in the Catholic Church because the way I believed (ie, all the stuff in the Bible, including Genesis, actually happened, the Biblical books are not pseudepigraphical forgeries, etc.) was "un-Catholic" and I didn't belong in this so-called "universal church." Nancy Pelosi has never been told to get out. Hans Kung has never been told to get out. But I was told to get out. And because in my patheticness I still believed Catholicism was the true religion and I was therefore bad, I went and confessed my "Biblical literalism" to the local priest. Not some young hippie, but an older guy with white hair. He spent some fifteen minutes (with a crowd forming outside the confessional) telling me all the "mistakes" and "errors" in the Bible. And still I couldn't leave because historically Catholicism was the true chrstianity.
You will never know what that was like. You will never know the feeling of going to a mass and denying yourself communion because your traditional beliefs make you "bad" and out of harmony with the "unchanging" and yet new-age Catholic Church.
So please don't ever tell me to cut anything out. I've been somewhere in your church you don't even know exists.
I have nothing more to say to you about this.
Don't you know? Because they're "Protestants." That's right. "Uncle toms."
There was one guy in particular whom not only I, but Alex Murphy stood up for, believe it or not. But he thought there was something rotten in the Denmark that is the contemporary Vatican and his co-religionists had him banned as an "anti-Catholic bigot."
And for what it's worth, I also disagree with the bannings of those Catholics and Eastern Orthodox who criticize the American philosophy and government from the perspective of their religion. When we die we aren't going to be asked if we were "good Americans" or were the same religion as George Washington and the Founding Fathers.
Take that however you will.
Yeah? Well let them try. Bring it on.
Of course you're an agnostic on creationism. You're a Catholic--not a congenitally stupid, inbred rural American denizen of a trailer park like the rest of us.
Evolution is in the Nicene Creed, don'tcha know![/sarcasm]
Cut it out.
It's apparently not an extreme position of a few Catholics. This is the attitude of uncounted numbers of traditionalist Catholics. You yourself have in the past stated your opposition to a Jewish state in Israel. I note no Catholic seems to object to a hindu state in India or a b*ddhist state in Myanmar or Thailand. Somehow the restoration of the one and only Biblical polity is uniquely evil and displeasing to G-d, as if the Biblical order and ceremonial were a vampire that had to be buried with a wooden cross in its heart.
While I truly appreciate this, how can you not know? Have you never picked up a copy of Our Sunday Visitor or US Catholic or Catholic Digest or Liguorian or even Catholic Answers? What about all those times the bishops have issued condemnations of "Biblical literalism" and insisted that the Bible is an "incarnation" of a few divine truths in a body of mistaken pre-scientific errors?
I will always wonder why no Catholic on FR will admit to having noticed these things . . . then suddenly they'll come out admit the fact that they share these very beliefs they claim they've never seen printed in these publications!
Being against a Jewish State and saying the Jews are “evil” are two different things. Maybe not to you, but according to Catholic teaching it is different. The extreme trads might say the latter, but not most Trads.
As for Buddhist states or Hindu states? Since when has that even been discussed on the international scene? I’m willing to bet that the Traditional Catholic popes would not support those either.
I actually do not read those publications. I have only been on Catholic Answer forums. Considering how they treat Trads over there (ie. they get banned pretty frequently), I’m not surprised.
Anyway, my last post to you was stating I did not know that you were speaking from personal experience. I didn’t even know you were once Catholic.
Watch your back. They've done it before and they'll probably do it again.
And unless you go nuts and start posting that HaShem is (has vechalilah!) "satan" or that the Jews are the uniquely "accursed race" (G-d forbid!) then you don't ever have to worry about me complaining about your "reactionary" posts or agitating in any way to get you banned. My own point of view is hardly traditional for American conservatives and I'm as liable to be banned as anyone else (though props to JimRob for his patience, forbearance, and tolerance).
I will check in with the RM about this.
Wrong. Again.
My now retired bishop called me by name an "enemy of the diocese." I've been in those places in my church that only you think you know exists. Difference is, I learned to stop looking at believers for proof of the existence of God and His Truth, and walked away with my Faith, the True Faith, intact.
The reason you can't let it go is because He won't let you go. He calls you back every day but in your anger and hurt, you refuse to answer His call.
There is nothing for you in Zionism, and you know it, and it makes you miserable. So you take it out on us.
Let it go.
I think you’re even excluded from the Catholic Caucus, I’m barely in by the skin of my teeth.
There was one bloodbath about 10 years ago or so that had people (trads) being banned by the sackfull.
He shouldn’t have left the Church, but I can understand why he felt the way he felt.
Oh I know I’m excluded. And I’m actually fine with that.
I’m not sure I get why Trads would get banned simply because of their beliefs. That would be like banning any other group just because of their beliefs.
Agreed.
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